Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Smoking Bans Burn Buisness (In Delaware)
Delaware Journal ^ | 12/15/02 | qam1

Posted on 12/15/2002 3:37:30 PM PST by qam1

Edited on 05/07/2004 6:01:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

As Delaware's indoor smoking ban enters its third week, most establishments appear to be observing the law - even though opposition is growing among some tavern and restaurant owners who complain they are losing business.

People were smoking in only two of 33 bars and restaurants visited by News Journal reporters last week. Many tavern owners and patrons said they are obeying the law while organizing to try to overturn or amend it when the General Assembly returns in January. Several owners said they think they have lost 20 percent to 50 percent of their business since the ban went into effect on Nov. 27.


(Excerpt) Read more at delawareonline.com ...


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; US: Delaware
KEYWORDS: antismokers; bans; butts; cancersticks; cigarettes; lungcancer; prohibitionists; pufflist; smokingbans; taxes; tobacco
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-87 next last
The funny thing is Mayor Bloomberg of New York has been touting Delaware as a sucess for a couple of Months now even though the ban has been in effect for 3 weeks.

Quote

"It may take awhile for the nonsmokers to discover," that Delaware establishments are smoke-free."

If that wasn't so tragic that would be funny.

Of course everybody knows Delaware is smoke free. That is why you are losing money stupid.

These politicans will go on believing this nonsense forever. They are mistakenly basing it on the fact that 25% of people are smokers and 75% are not and polls done by the antismoking nazis show that a majority of nonsmokers "SAY" the will go out more if bans are put in place.

The flaws in that are

1) They assume because 75% don't smoke that means that 75% of peoiple feel the same way about cigarettes as the antismoker Nazis that are in their face lobbying them do. Not true, Most nonsmokers don't care about smoking. Even if they dislike smoking that doesn't mean they are currently changing anything they do to avoid it. An analogy is me personally I don't like SUVs but I am not driving less because there are SUVs on the road. The same is true with most nonsmokers. Most are not going out any less because there is smoking in bars & Resturants.

2) In fact the Opposite is happening as the bans cause smokers to flee to surrounding areas their non-smokeing freinds are joining them and in many cases they are even arranging there get togethers (like weddings & parties)in places that accomendate their smoking friends. Using myself again me and bunch of friends smokers and non-smokers this summer were going down to NYC for a trip but because of the smoking ban we are going up to Montreal instead. Not one of the nonsmokers protested this descision, They also think the ban is a stupid idea.

3) The polls are coming from the Antismoking Nazis themslves so they are obviously biased.

4) The polls are flawed because What people SAY they are going to do is often very different from what they actually end up doing. Another analogy is if you were to take a poll before New Years asking what resolutions people are planning on you would find 60%-80% would say they are going to lose weight. So would those poll numbers justify banning junk food because most people SAY they want to lose weight. Of course not and the same is true with smoking bans. Sure when asked they may say they will go out more just like they say they will lose weight but in reality they don't. That is why these bans are failing big time , The people who said they would go out more simply aren't.

5) What exactly does "Go out more" mean anyhow? It's a vague question with a vague meaning. The fact is most people don't go to bars & resturants on a regular basis anyhow. So If they call some 50 year old mother of 3 who only goes out 1 or twice a year and she responses "Yes I would go out more" what does that mean she will go out 3 times a year instead of 2? Well sorry she doesn't replace the buisness lost to someone who goes out more often.

6) OK, Some antismoking Nazis might go out more often but I am sorry if someone is that Prissy about second hand smoke they are not the type that will stay out late at night at a bar or resturant. These are the type of people that go to a resturant and only order a salad and bottle water and leave a dollar tip and then are home in bed by 8:30.

I have delt with these antismoking nazis and they the most misable, unfunloving people in the world, They are not hanging out in bars because people are having fun there and they hate that.

1 posted on 12/15/2002 3:37:30 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: *puff_list
bump
2 posted on 12/15/2002 3:39:19 PM PST by Fish out of Water
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
It should be up to the business owner if he/she wants to allow smoking.

Dallas is in trouble, money-wise, and what do they do - vote a smoking ban.

I would like to have seen smokers get together, buy media time and announce they would not spend a nickle in Dallas during Christmas. If they would have just taken their business to other towns without the restrictive laws, it would have made a difference. Unfortunately, Americans do not fight back. WE just sit and take it, anything the want to dish out.

3 posted on 12/15/2002 3:43:52 PM PST by nanny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
I have dealt with these antismoking nazis and they are the most miserable, unfunloving people in the world,.. (sp corrected)

I beg to differ! I quit smoking over a month ago after smoking for 40 years. Cold turkey! PEOPLE should not be allowed to smoke in any public place. I see someone smoking on the streets and I lecture them, telling them of the evils of smoking. I.......... wait a minute, I think there is some law that requires me to say these crazy things since I quit. Somebody slap me!

4 posted on 12/15/2002 4:39:19 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mark
Not the ZOT- PLEEEEZE!
5 posted on 12/15/2002 4:41:03 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: nanny
Dallas City Council put that vote on the ban off until 2003 because there was a beginning groundswell of negative information. You know, things like, people losing jobs, a worsoning economy, ect... Apparently, hurting the economy will be a good idea NEXT year.
6 posted on 12/15/2002 4:46:09 PM PST by Republic of Texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mark
You smoked for 40 years so that means you enjoyed it.

Now that you choose not to smoke, You can't stand the fact that people are enjoying themselves in an activity you no longer participate in.

Typical.


BTW. For the last time. Resturants, Bars, Bowling Alleys, Pool Halls, ETC. ARE NOT public places they are PRIVATE buisness on Private property.
7 posted on 12/15/2002 4:47:25 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
bump
8 posted on 12/15/2002 4:47:55 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Fish out of Water
the solution is obvious. Remove the doors .
9 posted on 12/15/2002 4:51:41 PM PST by bert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: qam1
Gov. Ruth Ann Minner has said she would oppose efforts to repeal or amend the law, which prohibits smoking indoors at public places, including businesses, casinos, bars, restaurants and tap rooms.


10 posted on 12/15/2002 4:54:25 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Republic of Texas
I didn't know it got tabled as I haven't listened to the news in a while. Thanks. I just thought it was the most assinine thing knowing the condition of the economy in Dallas.

But the only power the American has is his purchasing power - his pocketbook -and we refuse to use it.

11 posted on 12/15/2002 4:55:41 PM PST by nanny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: qam1; *puff_list; Just another Joe; Great Dane; Max McGarrity; Tumbleweed_Connection; ...
I have delt with these antismoking nazis and they the most misable, unfunloving people in the world, They are not hanging out in bars because people are having fun there and they hate that.

You said it exactly right!

Delaware:


12 posted on 12/15/2002 4:57:04 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
They are open to the public. Anyway I really thought that you could see my attempt at humor-- NOW APPOLOGIZE to me, you hurt my feelings and I'm on edge since quitting smoking and yes I did enjoy smoking. And yes, Rob Reiner and all of the tobacco Nazis can go to hell. Now go re-read my original post.
13 posted on 12/15/2002 4:58:34 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Mark
I like going to smoke free places. I hate smelling like a chimney later, so smoke-free makes me happy. I don't care if smokers don't have a place in public to smoke. Smoking is so bad for you why do it at all?
14 posted on 12/15/2002 5:04:21 PM PST by Sicvee
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Sicvee
Ok, i read that like I was talking through my nose, like some liberal Nazi and it was funny.
15 posted on 12/15/2002 5:07:49 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Mark
They are not open to the public but instead they invite the public in. They can pick and choose who comes in and refuse service to anyone and throw anybody out who they don't like.
Like a bowling league for example. Plus what about all these smoking bans that include private clubs?

And before you say what if a buisness decided to ban Blacks, Sorry but that is discrimination which unlike Tobacco is against the law.

If I missed your attempt at humor I am sorry.

16 posted on 12/15/2002 5:21:18 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: qam1
"I think there is some law that requires me to say these crazy things since I quit. Somebody slap me!"

From my original post "Somebody slap me!" Damn it that's humor!

Now I agree a business SHOULD have the right to control his own business. I hope more smoking establishments are opened across the borders to draw business away from the Nazi states.

17 posted on 12/15/2002 5:26:52 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Mark
Somebody slap me!

I was about to go two steps further till I caught your sarcasm........ :)

18 posted on 12/15/2002 5:29:41 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mark
I knew that part was humor but I wasn't sure about the other parts.

So OK will I offer you a full and sincere Apology



19 posted on 12/15/2002 5:31:12 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Sicvee
I like going to smoke free places. I hate smelling like a chimney later, so smoke-free makes me happy. I don't care if smokers don't have a place in public to smoke.

The only smoke free places I know of certainly aren't much fun. Those that I have frequented were inhabited by a couple people adjacent to me who were obviously in need of showers and deodorant. So tell me, what am I to do? Body odor offends me so I think we are in need of a BO Bill which requires such offenders be prohibited from any public/private establishment. You with me on this one or are you the typical smoke-nazi hypocrite?

20 posted on 12/15/2002 5:35:23 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: nanny
Just happened last Friday. They couldn't get it passed quickly while no one was looking.
21 posted on 12/15/2002 5:37:00 PM PST by Republic of Texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Mark
They are open to the public.

They are open to the public at the owner's discretion. He has the right not to allow someone into his business.

22 posted on 12/15/2002 5:37:40 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: qam1
Apology accepted. Now just what are the surrounding states rules on smoking? Can they hurt Delaware? Especially tax wise-- can they draw business away from Delaware?
23 posted on 12/15/2002 5:37:44 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Sicvee
I don't care if smokers don't have a place in public to smoke. Smoking is so bad for you why do it at all?

You want the world to rotate on your butt? Why do we do it? How about "We like it and it's legal?" How's that.

I hope they ban your dirt bike next.

24 posted on 12/15/2002 5:39:13 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
I think, or hope that Sicvee was using humor. That's why I replied as I did to the posting. Just read the post as if you were speaking through your nose so you sound like a snivveling liberal. At least that's how I took it.
25 posted on 12/15/2002 5:44:07 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: zcat
Speaking of antismoking Nazi hypocrits.

All these politicans who ban smoking due to the danger (lol!) of Second hand smoke should also be in favor of getting rid of tollbooths. Because all the exhust caused by the conjestion at them is also harmful to your health, much more than ETS.

And if I don't like smoking I don't have to go in the resturant or bar but there is no way I can avoid getting stuck at a toll.



26 posted on 12/15/2002 5:45:38 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Sicvee
I don't care if smokers don't have a place in public to smoke.

Back atcha, we don't care if you don't come into our bars where we smoke, drink, shoot pool and have fun. In fact, we would just as soon you stayed away. I would have loved to see you to come into a couple of places i used to hang out and spout your socialist agenda in there. ROFLMAO! Just picturing you driving home with a cue up your &*%!!!! OUCH!!

27 posted on 12/15/2002 5:46:09 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Sicvee
The sad part about it is, your socialist ban is going to impact on the neighborhood bars where the elitists such as you wouldn't even dare lower yourself to their standards by stopping in. The bars where the good old boys go to drink, smoke and do just about whatever they want free of the likes of you. But hey, what do you care?
28 posted on 12/15/2002 5:50:11 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: zcat
Please read my #15 and #25. Did I get it wrong?
29 posted on 12/15/2002 5:52:24 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Mark
I think, or hope that Sicvee was using humor. That's why I replied as I did to the posting. Just read the post as if you were speaking through your nose so you sound like a snivveling liberal. At least that's how I took it.

It's hard to know WHAT is going through people's heads when they come into the smoking threads. Seems that being a Republican who smokes still puts us on the outs with some. Pity.

We see it a lot in Free Republic. They say they are for all the rights for all the people, yet come in and trash the hell out of Conservatives who choose to smoke. I walk away from my monitor in tears a lot.

30 posted on 12/15/2002 5:55:43 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Mark
Please read my #15 and #25. Did I get it wrong?

Not quite sure what you mean but I think you got sicvee wrong. He is an elitist Nico-Nazi, there was no humor in his post and I hope he has the cahones to stop by this thread again rather than just post and run........

31 posted on 12/15/2002 5:57:47 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Mark
I quit smoking over a month ago

Right about now, you've gotta being along this line:


32 posted on 12/15/2002 5:59:29 PM PST by ErnBatavia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mark
Both MD (the state, some communities are whacky) & Penn & NJ don't have any weird smoking laws like Delaware.

And that's where the Delaware people are going.

Penn. Has a state law that prevents any community from passing their own smoking ban and the state isn't going smoke free anytime soon.

NJ. Is weird, Each town sets it's own policy in regards to resturants & bars so I am not sure the state can ban smoking everywhere. Everytown has it's own bar closing times for instance and some towns are actually totally dry by law. Some NJ towns like Princeton tried to ban smoking but everytime a ban comes up it has been soundly defeated. Baffonberg is hoping NJ follows suit but I wouldn't count on it. NJ is small like Delaware and many people can just hop into Penn. or other parts of NY state and NJ will be the big winner in this if they are smart enough to avoid a stupid ban because they get people from delaware spending their money and if the ban does go in effect in NYC people there will come into Hoboken (5 min. PATH ride, big party towm)and people will stay in Jersey (Go to any club in Manhattan, Half the people in any of them are from Jersey, They will stay now stay in Jersey and spend their money there). Atlantic City is also in heavy competion with Foxwoods so a ban would be suicide. Plus the govenor Mcgreevy (D)is very corupt so all the resturant buisness has to do is pay him off like they did when they wanted to lower the DWI blood alcohol limit and all talk of smoking bans will disappear.




33 posted on 12/15/2002 6:03:37 PM PST by qam1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: zcat
I thought it was a typical message of a liberal, but so far out that it was like showing obsurdity by being obsurd. Picture Rob Reiner speaking those words or Alan Colmes. It just seemed like "no, he/she can't possibly be serious". But maybe I was wrong and the posting was serious.
34 posted on 12/15/2002 6:04:37 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: qam1
Plus the govenor Mcgreevy (D)is very corupt so all the resturant buisness has to do is pay him off like they did when they wanted to lower the DWI blood alcohol limit and all talk of smoking bans will disappear.

That just don't seem FAIR! OK, notice the humor intent. It shows the obsurdity. Anyway thanks for that information. We got Dufus Davis here in Kalifornia, so I have no room to talk about or criticize the East coast.

35 posted on 12/15/2002 6:10:50 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: ErnBatavia
Citizen's arrest! Citizen's arrest!
36 posted on 12/15/2002 6:12:56 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: qam1
What this is about is some small timers get into a position of power, and THEY HAVE TO BE DOING SOMETHING TO LEGISLATE! And the most important thing is that there is nobody left to kick around, because all of the rest of "ethnic groups" are ezempt. Gotta hate somebody.

Passive smoke research is bull clinton. No way unless one lives with a two pack a dayer for 40 years.

Vote with your feet smokers.

37 posted on 12/15/2002 6:22:17 PM PST by oldtimer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
I walk away from my monitor in tears a lot.

I know where you are coming from. Unfortunately, I get so darn *&^*&%*&* off that I wake up the next morning saying "well, what did you say last night and to whom...."

You know, my dad was one of the most knowlegable people on communism that I have ever know. Back in the 60's and 70's I used to roll my eyes whenever he started into one of his rants against the commies.

30 years later and wiser, dad was 100% right. I will always remember one thing he told me about Kruschev. Kruschev was quoted once as saying "...your freedoms will ultimately destroy you." Or something close to it. Anyway, his statement is coming closer to fruition as each year goes by.

38 posted on 12/15/2002 6:26:35 PM PST by Hot Tabasco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
I got the sense that most on FR see the smoking issue as a loss of freedom. You would know more than I, but I only saw a few on the threads that I read.

When California got that Rob "Meathead" Reiner Prop 10 on the ballot and Charlton Heston endorsed it, I emailed the NRA. Wayne LaPierre, the spokesperson came back with the line that Mr. Heston was speaking for himself. I asked that if a local governing body wanted to place a huge yearly tax on all weapons kept in their community, would they endorse that. He replied that they would fight such a tax. After the proposition passed, by a slim majority, it was felt that Heston's endorsement clinched the passing. Within a few weeks, I think it was Chicago, was passing a tax on all guns and the NRA objected. Heston later said he wished that he would never have supported that meathead proposition because he could see where it was going.

39 posted on 12/15/2002 6:29:18 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: qam1
This is Prohibition all over again. Some bars are secretly allowing smoking, and they are getting all the business. We'll have Elliot Ness going in with machine guns soon.
40 posted on 12/15/2002 6:31:41 PM PST by gitmo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mark
Heston later said he wished that he would never have supported that meathead proposition because he could see where it was going.

Talk about Big Fat!


41 posted on 12/15/2002 6:41:09 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: gitmo
This is Prohibition all over again. Some bars are secretly allowing smoking, and they are getting all the business. We'll have Elliot Ness going in with machine guns soon.


42 posted on 12/15/2002 6:42:17 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
LOL! That's a keeper.
43 posted on 12/15/2002 6:45:16 PM PST by gitmo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: gitmo
LOL! That's a keeper.

Save it for yourself. It's something!

44 posted on 12/15/2002 6:53:15 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: SheLion
I can just see Al Capone rolling over in his grave and saying, "Why didn't I think of that?"
45 posted on 12/15/2002 6:59:07 PM PST by Mark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: gitmo
This is Prohibition all over again. Some bars are secretly allowing smoking, and they are getting all the business. We'll have Elliot Ness going in with machine guns soon.

Good Grief - it's worse than that. The state is asking for snitches. The radio and TV ads are nauseating - "If you see someone smoking where it's forbidden call and let us know"

I kid you not.

And on that note - I will go back to the beginning of the thread and add my 2cents to a few other comments!!!

46 posted on 12/15/2002 7:00:48 PM PST by Gabz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Gabz
Gabz, remember this one?

"""WANTED: insane people to be no-smoking-in-public-code enforcers for the
state of Delaware. Must enter bars late at night without weapons, brains
and next of kin. Call - 1-(800) I BE NUTS anytime"""""

47 posted on 12/15/2002 7:05:22 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Gabz
Smoking bill was won with sheer zeal

And they faced no concerted, organized opposition from smokers or from the business community, legislators and observers said.

48 posted on 12/15/2002 7:18:15 PM PST by SheLion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: qam1
There is not a thing you say that I can disagree with.

I'm a native New Yorker (east Flatbush, Brooklyn) who has been living in Delaware for 20 years - it would have only been 18, but I haven't sold my house yet to leave.

The News Journal (delawareonline.com) has an editorial position that the smoking ban is the greatest thing since sliced bread. This story is by far the most objective of any story they have done since this legislation was orininally introduced nearly 2 years ago.

There is no two ways about it - bars and restaurants are being hurt big time by this ban. I can not speak from first hand knowledge but friends have told me the casino at Dover Downs is dead at times when it used to be packed (lunch and dinner).

Maybe it is not the same elsewhere, but around here the time from Thanksgiving to New Years has always meant big business to the bars and restaurants. When I can get a seat at the bar in my favorite sports bar at 5pm on a Saturday afternoon - there is something decidely wrong.

Because of being in central Delaware, an Eagles/Redskins game is a major draw for the sports bars regardless of the records of either team. But with the position the Eagles are in right now - it would be expected that all 3 sports bars would be packed to capacity.

I cruised the parking lots of all - and could have had my pick of parking spaces.

49 posted on 12/15/2002 7:19:26 PM PST by Gabz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: qam1
Not true, Most nonsmokers don't care about smoking.

Typical smoker lying propaganda.

50 posted on 12/15/2002 7:21:28 PM PST by cinFLA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-87 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson