Who's Germany? A Study In Irrelevance

Vanity | 12/26/02 | Sparta

[Sparta]

We've been bombarded by leftist media outlets about the fact that many nations oppose President Bush's Iraq policy. These opposing nations are often held up as more enlightened than the United States. One of the leaders of the "don't bomb Iraq" crowd is a little country in Europe called Germany.

For those of you who don't know who Germany is, they are the nation which has started both world wars we've been in this century. Germany was completely and utterly destroyed during World War II. She was then rebuilt in the largest aid package in world history by the nation which led her defeat, the United States. We, during and after the Cold War, stationed thousands of troops to guarantee this nation's security. The United States equipped and trained the new German Bundeswehr when most other conquerers would have found a way to exploit their conquered. (Ex: The Soviet occupation of East Germany.)

Now, Germany has one of the largestest economies in Europe and one of Europe's finest militaries. But, they are no longer the global power they once were.

Germany is trying to get the rest of the world to take them seriously by criticizing Bush publicly. Current Chancellor Gerhart Schroder's reelection campaign focused on anti-American rhetoric. His Justice Minister compared Bush to Hitler. In the end, Schroder was barely reelected.

Now tell me if this is an important nation or a culture that his contributed to Western Civilization. Germany's economy is in a free fall. To attempt to solve this, Comrade Schroder is proposing income tax increases and a wealth tax, among other proposals. His Foreign Minister threw rocks at police during demonstrations against the very American soldiers who protect his country. Also, for your information, the birthplace of Karl Marx was none other than Germany. Germany, outside of Nietzsche and a few others, has been the cultural home for the latest tyrannical and anti-Western philosophies ever devised in history.

What does the future hold for Germany? Germany, through the European Union(Fourth Reich), stands to become the leader of Europe. I think Germany will lead Europe. It will become the first nation in Europe to adopt Sharia(Islamic law). Many of you will disagree and say France will be the first. I happen to have faith in the French that I don't have for Germany. I think France will return to the civilized world and remember the fact they are a nation founded on the promise of liberty for all of its citizens. Germany has no idea of liberty, however. During the Weimar Republic, the main parties in Germany all called for an end to the Republic and an institution of tyrannical government. Germany, after World War II, wrote argueably one of the most statist documents posing as a constitution in the world. So, Sharia should not be much of a stretch for them.

I hope Germany realizes two things. One, that socialism and statism don't work and never will. Two, that Germany will benefit more by being more aggressive against terrorism. Also, Germany would be wise to emulate the United States, not just attacking it. Unfortunately, there are few in Germany who are willing to learn these lessons.

[DB]

And Germany is not the place for that rapid deployment.

[Red Jones]

well, I certainly would agree that the crazy ideologies like marxism and nazism and frankfurth school of thought are not to be emulated at all. But I don't think ordinary germans pay any attention to that junk.

[caltrop]

I've no problem with pre-positioning troops where they'll be able to quickly respond. I'd leave our paratroops in Italy, for example. Unfortunately, we don't seem to be doing anything about expanding our Navy - we're down to something like 300 ships - and the Navy is our most flexible means of power projection. The Army can get the 82nd Airborne or the 173rd Airborne (Italy) to almost any location before the Navy can get there but, once they're committed, we're at war. Our troops in Germany have no mission and are unable to provide any sort of useful forward basing. The Army, wishing to stay in Europe, will tell you otherwise but it's only an excuse to stay there and, additionally, keep the Army from being further reduced. I'd contend it can't be reduced much more and that our forces are better positioned here at home. The savings could build more ships - something we'll desperately need in the future and which require a long lead time to produce.

[patton]

Warum wollte ich irgandjemandem sagen, "Du kannst mich doch mal am arsch kuessen?"

Not you, certainly. Just somebody.

The German-bashers are out in force, today.

Es gibt immer noch Familien in Virginia, die Deutsch als Erstsprache kennen.

[patton]

Liberty Ships rolled off the ramps every three days.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[caltrop]

I'm not inclined to want to have large numbers of ground troops in Europe. Air Force bases, however, are another story. They're fixed facilities and expensive to duplicate. In that regard, we've got an Air Force base at Taszar, Hungary.

[crystalk]

My information is that the Islamic population in Britain is quite modest compared to that in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc.

[stripes1776]

If germany is so bad as you say, then america must be also because so many americans have german stock in them.

Americans of German descent have something more in them than German stock; they have the American spirit. They are not hyphenated Teutonic-Americans. They are true Americans.

[caltrop]

I'm familiar with Henry Kaiser and his Liberty Ships but I suspect today's requirements have made it impossible to duplicate that sort of production. In any event, my concern is less for cargo ships than for warships. They seem to take forever to build and, where Reagan approached 600, we're close to 300 now.

[crystalk]

It would appear that about 3.5% of the present American residents can speak some German from personal or family origins, as distinguished from having learned it in school.

These are mainly elderly, and are found in all parts of the country.

It would seem that from 22 to 24% of the non-Hispanic WHITE population of the USA are German surnamed, or were before anglicizing that often occurred in the 18th and 19th centuries, such as Klein to Cline, Steinbrenner to Stoneburner, Kreisler to Chrysler, etc.

Much of this immigration was from areas no longer under German control, however, and over 80% of it was non-Catholic...much of it was non-Lutheran also, because America served as a refuge for minority religious groups viewed as cults in Germany, such as Baptists, Calvinist and Reformed groups, Mennonites, etc.

Many of these were from areas now included in Czechoslovakia or Poland.

At one time, Wisconsin had dual German and English school systems, and some feared that State would remain German speaking forever.

German immigration peaked in the 1740-80 era, and again in the 1840-80 era. The heyday of Ellis Island saw relatively few German speakers come in, though many non-German Catholic elements from the Austrian and German empires did come then.

It is a little-known fact that over 10% of the German-speaking heritage now in USA are descendents of displaced persons and other refugees accepted here AFTER World War II, in the 1945-60 era.

If Schroeder keeps running Germany in the hole, maybe more will yet come over, if they think they can compete with blacks and Mexicans for jobs, in the very teeth of affirmative-action's labeling them as whites, quien en los estados unidos comen cola.

[garandgal]

Whatever you may think of their political leaders, their military has some class.

If you will recall, shortly after 9-11, the German Navy ship Lutjens hailed sailors from one of our ships. They were standing at attention at the rails, flying an American flag at halfmast, and holding a sign that said "We stand by you".

The primary problem with Germany is that, unlike our fringe political parties, their fascist "fringe" is rather large. Hitler was approved of by well less than the majority of Germans.

BTW, I am an American of mostly German ancestry.

[LdSentinal]

Back in college, I had a conservative Greek friend who was not only pro-America, but also pro-Israel. Basically, in Greece, just about the entire media is dominated by followers of communism.

[zeugma]

The Fish gave a pretty funny translation to that...

'Why I wanted to say to irgandjemandem, "you can me nevertheless times at the ass kiss?" There are still families in Virginia, which German as Erstsprache.'

I love babelfish translations. Translating english to german, then to spanish, then to french, then back to english can be pretty hilarious.

[Sparta]

Congratulations for expousing the Schroder line of propaganda.

[Sparta]

The way to prevent all those worst case scenarios from happening is regime change in Iraq. Why don't you give me an example of how socialism and statism have worked?

[1rudeboy]

You bring up an interesting issue . . . once we bring those troops home, we will have few options other than demobilization for them. That fact does create an institutional motive to keep them where they are. I have yet to see an essay on that particular topic.

I have much faith in our airborne troops. But they require rapid reinforcement. So it is written. So it shall be.

[pepsionice]

The news media is simply pure anti-American...you can watch any of the main news networks and they all spout anti-American themes. They loved Bill Clinton because he was a liberal...but GW is simply not acceptable. They always want to show some moral highroad...as if better than America, and I went along with this attitude for several years. But I have come to realize that Germany is not all blue sky and pretty. There is a vast amount of racism, politicans are just as stupid as American politicans, and education here simply does not add up in the long run.

I spent my last 10 years in Germany, so I can say with authority that things don't measure up. As for the military angle...we are here because of the infrasture that the US has built. There are facilities worth several hundred billion dollars sitting here. If you decide to pull out and move back to the US....you can be sure that congress will not allow that troop strength to enter the US...it will simply say their mission as come to an end and dismiss 100,000 troops from DODs requirements. So, both the US Army and Air Force know the situation...their troops and facilities are gone forever. Not one building will be built in the US, not one troop will be assigned to a US facility...they will simply go away.

[caltrop]

I think we still have 2/3rds of two Divisions and a Corps HQ in Germany. If we demobilized them I think we'd have only one, instead of two, Armored Divisions and three instead of four Mechanized Infrantry. We dropped down to ten active Divisions from eighteen and, frankly, I can't see how we can go much lower. Even so, IMHO, that's insufficient reason to continue bearing the cost of keeping them in Germany.