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Farmers Threaten To Block US-Mexico Border Crossings [NAFTA]
Voice of America News ^ | Dec. 28, 2002 | AP, AFP and Reuters

Posted on 12/28/2002 7:10:41 AM PST by madfly

Angry Mexican farmers are threatening to block U.S.-Mexico border crossings on New Year's Day to protest the lifting of tariffs on agricultural products under free trade rules.

The farmers say they fear they will not be able to compete with U.S. and Canadian producers when tariffs are removed on January 1 as part of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

The farmers and their supporters are calling on the Mexican government to do more to protect the agricultural sector.

President Vicente Fox refuses to re-negotiate the free trade agreement, but he has pledged to help the farmers compete with the United States and Canada.

Some information for this report provided by AP, AFP and Reuters.



TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: borders; fox; freetrade; nafta; tariffs
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1 posted on 12/28/2002 7:10:42 AM PST by madfly
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To: madfly
And the only thing we'll get out of the whole deal is more illegal immigration.

Isn't NAFTA wonderful?

2 posted on 12/28/2002 7:14:19 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: madfly
I find this very interesting that the Mexican farmers say they can compete against our farmers.

After Nafta was signed I heard/read a lot of bitching and moaning from farmers, ranchers, orchard growers and rice farmers that they couldn't compete against the Mexican Farmers.

Now the Mexican Farmers are complaining!
3 posted on 12/28/2002 7:31:42 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
they couldn't compete against the Mexican Farmers.
Now the Mexican Farmers are complaining!

maybe there having trouble finding cheap labor ......
why pick tomatoes when you can cross the boarder and get it all ...
a job picking tomatoes, free education for the kiddies, free health care for the whole clan .... and .... if you work it out just right ... gov. subsidies out the yang.

ya , I bet those mexican farmers WILL have a hard time competing.
4 posted on 12/28/2002 7:42:56 AM PST by THEUPMAN
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To: Grampa Dave
Precisely what I remember, the great Florida tomato waste.
They threw them away rather than get next to nothing for them because nafta opened the mexican tomato floodgates.
5 posted on 12/28/2002 7:44:00 AM PST by wita
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To: THEUPMAN
You may have the answer here:

Now the Mexican Farmers are complaining! maybe there having trouble finding cheap labor ...... why pick tomatoes when you can cross the boarder and get it all ... a job picking tomatoes, free education for the kiddies, free health care for the whole clan .... and .... if you work it out just right ... gov. subsidies out the yang. ya , I bet those mexican farmers WILL have a hard time competing.

6 posted on 12/28/2002 7:45:46 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: Grampa Dave
After Nafta was signed I heard/read a lot of bitching and moaning from farmers, ranchers, orchard growers and rice farmers that they couldn't compete against the Mexican Farmers.

Yep. The "sucking sound" works both ways.

7 posted on 12/28/2002 7:49:06 AM PST by concerned about politics
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To: madfly
Mexico Ends Practice of Giving Land to Poor

Local Level Response to Agrarian Reform in Mexico

8 posted on 12/28/2002 7:49:30 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Free the USA; B4Ranch; Tancredo Fan; Marine Inspector; Ajnin; agitator; Tancred; Spiff; backhoe; ...
ping.

We have a great group of indexers for this topic, you can look for new articles on the bump list, under immigrant_list

Much thanks to gubamyster, Free the USA, Libertarinize the GOP and the others. Fish out of Water will be back on the job soon. These are a great group of dedicated freepers that work hard at this job and I ping everything to them so they can use their expertise to list threads in the immigrant_list and/or any other topics that may be appropriate.

Here is the link for the immigrant_list

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/involved?group=33

Here is the link for the complete bump-list topics. (Note: the notice that this list is being phased out has been up there for some time, but it remains a working list.)

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

Anyone who would like to removed from my ping list and use this method to locate articles on this subject, click here to freepmail me and I will be happy to remove your name and stop cluttering your comments page :).

madfly mail

9 posted on 12/28/2002 7:53:25 AM PST by madfly
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To: madfly
I'm sure Presidente Fox will be able to use access of American agricultural products as a bargaining chip. Put it on the list of things we can already do legally but Mexico won't allow because they, well, are Mexicans. Mexicans are the most arrogant people in the world and the ones with so little to be arrogant about.

There will be some reason, at the last minute, that these farmers will get their way. But, the northward movement of drugs by Mr. Fox and his drug lord friends and employers will continue as usual.

10 posted on 12/28/2002 7:53:33 AM PST by Tacis
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To: concerned about politics
Equal Opportunity "Sucking Sounds" Quite often when something like this happens, it might not be a bad thing for the end consumer.
11 posted on 12/28/2002 7:56:59 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
And the only thing we'll get out of the whole deal is more illegal immigration.

Let me see if I've got this straight. Without NAFTA, you would be complaining about illegal immigration. With NAFTA, you would be complaining about illegal immigration. Any possibility that NAFTA has nothing to with your position?

12 posted on 12/28/2002 7:59:20 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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sorry, nothing "to do" with
13 posted on 12/28/2002 8:00:29 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: madfly
Golly Gee, Agrarian Land Reforms are happening on the other side of the world too
14 posted on 12/28/2002 8:06:43 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: madfly
Somebody please call the WAAMBULANCE for the Mexican farmers.
15 posted on 12/28/2002 8:14:40 AM PST by Sparta
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To: 1rudeboy
Said it before, I'll say it again: ten years after NAFTA Mexico's two greatest exports are still drugs and illegal aliens. The US became a superpower on its own, we didn't need treaties like NAFTA to do it. I don't know why Mexico, with all its resources can't make a decent go of it, but what I'm seeing here is they are looking for any excuse they can find to send their people up here, and the failures of NAFTA is just another one.

It is time we closed the border, enforced our laws and make Mexico stand on its own two feet. Trade with them yes, but only if it doesn't drag us down to their level economically and financially.

16 posted on 12/28/2002 8:31:36 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: THEUPMAN
maybe there having trouble finding cheap labor ...... why pick tomatoes when you can cross the boarder and get it all ...

a job picking tomatoes, free education for the kiddies, free health care for the whole clan .... and .... if you work it out just right ... gov. subsidies out the yang.

ya , I bet those mexican farmers WILL have a hard time competing.

That's exactly what's happening. You hit the nail squarely on the head.

17 posted on 12/28/2002 8:36:12 AM PST by WRhine
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To: *"Free" Trade
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
18 posted on 12/28/2002 8:39:35 AM PST by Free the USA
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Erasing Our Borders
19 posted on 12/28/2002 8:43:35 AM PST by FreeSpeechZone
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To: concerned about politics
Immigration: A Warning From Denmark
20 posted on 12/28/2002 8:46:49 AM PST by FreeSpeechZone
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To: THEUPMAN
BTTT!

Answer:

"why pick tomatoes" (in Mexico) "when you can cross the border" (into the USA) "and get it all..."

"a job picking tomatoes, free education for the kiddies, free health care for the whole clan....and....if you work it out just right...gov. subsidies out the yang."

And the American Taxpayers get the bill.

The Question:

How does the government of the United States subsidize businesses without officially subsidizing businesses?

21 posted on 12/28/2002 9:01:04 AM PST by 4Freedom
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To: WRhine
Many believe that illegal immigrations from Latin America are increasing and will continue to increase because of the ripple effects of free trade policies that are causing economic woes and displacement for indigenous people and peasants in Latin America. Immigrants' rights groups note that they are serving increasing numbers of migrants from southern Mexico, particularly Chiapas, Oaxaca and Guerrero, who they weren't seeing several years ago. Many of these indigenous immigrants don't even speak Spanish, making their prospects in the U.S. even more difficult.

"Migration is always a reflection of other social developments taking place," said Arnoldo Garcia. "Right now farmworkers are being displaced in Mexico, people are losing their jobs and land because of NAFTA."

22 posted on 12/28/2002 9:11:14 AM PST by FreeSpeechZone
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To: FreeSpeechZone
I'm still wondering who the big business globalists think will buy their products when there's no middle class left in the US.
23 posted on 12/28/2002 9:16:03 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest; 4Freedom
In 1979 Reagan proposed a "North American Accord" in which commerce and people would move freely across the borders
24 posted on 12/28/2002 9:16:35 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Great link Ben, but Reagan also understood the meaning of borders and country. It's not about being against free trade, but about keeping people who don't belong here out, while maintaining the integrity of the laws and the border.

Everyone understands this but you and a few others like the Wall St. Journal apparently.

25 posted on 12/28/2002 9:22:02 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: 4Freedom
The Question:

How does the government of the United States subsidize businesses without officially subsidizing businesses?

Holy Bat Backdoor Deals! They keep our borders OPEN and make non-enforcement of our immigrations laws the official policy.

26 posted on 12/28/2002 9:24:27 AM PST by WRhine
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
You are right,there soon will be no middle class left in this country!
27 posted on 12/28/2002 9:28:01 AM PST by Mears
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
Ronald Reagan and the birth of the Federalist Society: The Conservative Cabal That's Transforming American Law

As the Feddies wrote every minute detail into NAFTA, they thought about Reagan.

28 posted on 12/28/2002 9:31:14 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Grampa Dave
I find this very interesting that the Mexican farmers say they can compete against our farmers.

As individuals, no. Once they get bought out by corporate agribusiness, the food will come from over the border, Mexicans will work as slaves on what was their own land, and the remnant will head north.

Per plan.

29 posted on 12/28/2002 9:45:21 AM PST by Carry_Okie
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To: Ben Ficklin
Another great link Ben, but Reagan also said "a nation without borders isn't a nation". The 1986 compromise bill contained authorization to hire 5000 additional border guards and implemented employer sanctions to prevent the hiring of illegal aliens.

Feel free to post all the links you want, but Reagan was for free trade and legal immigration, not illegal immigration. Again, we all understand this but you.

30 posted on 12/28/2002 9:46:53 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: madfly
Thanks again, madfly.

As I sit here screaming at my pc, I wonder what is going to happen in this country when my 4 mo. old son is my age?

I am frustrated to no end when I read these articles. Bush is not helping on this issue. I want a president who believes in an intesified sovereignty of our nation.
31 posted on 12/28/2002 9:55:56 AM PST by raybbr
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To: madfly
I hope they block it and get things cooking!
32 posted on 12/28/2002 10:11:26 AM PST by dennisw
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To: 1rudeboy
Check out these links and see if you think NAFTA (TLCAN) isn't much of the problem. NAFTA is killing the average Mexican campesino ---yes Fox wants them all to leave and become humble gardeners and day laborers in the US, but what happens if they all don't wish to leave their country and home?

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=21927 Los páramos desiertos

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=21898 Violencia genera violencia

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=21142 Anuncian campesinos megamarcha y plantón

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=20974 Luchan vs TLC

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=20006 Bloquearán campesinos puentes fronterizos

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=19926 Alertan migración por crisis agraria

http://www.diario.com.mx/servicios/hemeroteca/nota.asp?notaid=18638 La guerra contra el campo
33 posted on 12/28/2002 10:19:44 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FreeSpeechZone
Many believe that illegal immigrations from Latin America are increasing and will continue to increase because of the ripple effects of free trade policies that are causing economic woes and displacement for indigenous people and peasants in Latin America.

That's right. The outcome of NAFTA is 100% counter to all the great things that its proponents said would happen. NAFTA was sold on the idea that it would make our southern neighbors more prosperous, create new jobs in America and reduce illegal immigration. Ha! Under NAFTA Illegal Immigration has gone from being a festering problem to a full blown crisis, hundreds of thousands of American Jobs have been shipped over the border and now even the struggling masses in central and south America don't like what NAFTA is producing.

This was quite predictable. I could never understand the sense of signing trade agreements with corrupt, backward 3rd world nations that have virtually nothing in common with the U.S. It was just asking for trouble.

So it was more than a little mystifying to me to hear George Bush Senior recently talk about what a great success NAFTA is. I guess like all the other original NAFTA backers he can't admit the treaty has been an unmitigated disaster...OR perhaps he truly does like the staggering problems NAFTA has created. Given the across the board failure of NAFTA my hunch is the latter.

Maybe George Junior will fix all this by signing more 10,000 page "Free Trade" agreements with nations that have nothing to trade with us but drugs and illegal aliens. Such insanity seems to be the norm in Washington these days.

34 posted on 12/28/2002 10:21:11 AM PST by WRhine
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"I don't know why Mexico, with all its resources can't make a decent go of it...."

Easily answered. Wealth is the end result of having a society that creates the social and legal infrastructure necessary for the creation and protection of wealth. Period. That is the difference between the first and the third worlds, and that is why Mexico is a hopeless basket case and will continue to be so until there is real change there.

As of now their legal infrastructure is an international joke (La Mordita is not a viable legal system) and their entire society suffers because of it. Mexico has as many billionaires as America does, yet Mexico is endlessly mired in poverty and despair. Corruption of the legal system does that to a nation.

35 posted on 12/28/2002 10:24:23 AM PST by Billy_bob_bob
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To: Ben Ficklin
I'm sure as millions of campesinos leave Mexico, their lands are being taken over by the wealthy. No one will give the poor anything in Mexico ---you certainly never needed to worry about that ----and keep in mind --the "poor" are the average people ---80% of the population.
36 posted on 12/28/2002 10:25:02 AM PST by FITZ
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To: 4Freedom
"The Question:

How does the government of the United States subsidize businesses without officially subsidizing businesses?"

That's easy. By providing free medical care, free education and free food and shelter for "undocumented workers" while looking the other way as they stream over our borders. Of course, all of these goodies are provided at taxpayer expense. Of course.

37 posted on 12/28/2002 10:28:20 AM PST by Billy_bob_bob
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To: Grampa Dave
Now the Mexican Farmers are complaining! maybe there having trouble finding cheap labor

That's the reason they CAN'T compete ---they only have cheap labor and that does nothing at all to make a farm efficient. Machines do that and the Mexican farmers have not been allowed to get machines. The reason a farmworker in Mexico can make $0.30 an hour but if the exact same guy gets to the USA, he can make $4.00 an hour is because here he gets to use decent machines. Cheap labor isn't all that cheap ---machines bring efficiency.

38 posted on 12/28/2002 10:29:27 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Billy_bob_bob
...and that is why Mexico is a hopeless basket case and will continue to be so until there is real change there.

Exactly why it is necessary for us to close the border. As long as we remain a safety valve for their unwillingness to make the needed changes, it will never happen. And they won't stop coming till nearly their entire population is here.

39 posted on 12/28/2002 10:31:22 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: dennisw
I hope they block it and get things cooking!

I hope so too ----Bush seems very impressed with Fox and he might learn too many things from him ---do nothing for your country, let things get worse, and force your citizens to leave so they won't complain. I don't want to leave the USA.

40 posted on 12/28/2002 10:32:10 AM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Recently on fr someone posted an article that backs up your premise re Cheap labor isn't all that cheap ---machines bring efficiency.

I believe that the story was about a farmer who grew and harvested raisins. His new techniques and machines made him very competitive.

The article note that farmers addicted to cheap labor would lose out to the farmers using and trying new ways and technology to plant, maintain and harvest their crops!

41 posted on 12/28/2002 10:32:48 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: WRhine; Reaganwuzthebest; Ben Ficklin
"...make non-enforcement of our immigration laws the official policy."

Yeah, and Ben Ficklin would have you believe that this is exactly what Ronald Reagan would have done.

Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?

42 posted on 12/28/2002 10:34:41 AM PST by 4Freedom
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To: 4Freedom; Ben Ficklin
Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?

The open borders crowd is grasping at straws in order that we accept millions of illegals pouring into the country. Politicians like Sam Brownback and Jack Kemp do this all the time as well, citing Reagan and his "shining city on the hill" quote, but no one's buying it. He was not referring to illegal immigrants.

43 posted on 12/28/2002 10:40:22 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
I'm still wondering who the big business globalists think will buy their products when there's no middle class left in the US.

That's always puzzled me too. Then again, most of these carpet-bagging globalists only think quarter to quarter anyway with no thought or care about the long-term. With the large fortunes they exact from their companies they can live just about anywhere on the globe. Sadly, the very same "live for today" hippies of yesteryear now run Corporate America.

44 posted on 12/28/2002 10:43:40 AM PST by WRhine
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To: WRhine
Under NAFTA Illegal Immigration has gone from being a festering problem to a full blown crisis . . . .

The worst of logical fallacies. Let me ask you this, if more high-paying jobs went south of the border because of NAFTA, then why are more people entering the U.S. in search of high-paying jobs? You can't have it both ways.

In other words, NAFTA has nothing to do with illegal immigration, despite your best efforts to link them.

45 posted on 12/28/2002 10:47:20 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: WRhine
Sadly, the very same "live for today" hippies of yesteryear now run Corporate America.

No the true hippies (the ones engaging in class-warfare) are here posting on this forum.

46 posted on 12/28/2002 10:49:12 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: WRhine
Then again, most of these carpet-bagging globalists only think quarter to quarter anyway with no thought or care about the long-term.

Some of these so-called big-business globalists have already moved out, gone to Costa Rica and other places. Patriotism and country is non-existent, just the almighty dollar.

47 posted on 12/28/2002 10:52:37 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: 1rudeboy
In other words, NAFTA has nothing to do with illegal immigration, despite your best efforts to link them.

I gave you some good links that show that it does ---what do you think the Mexican government intends to do with 80% of 26 million farmers that it destroys? In the article Guerra Contra El Campos it specifically discusses how Salinas (the ex-president guy who has a murdered brother-in-law) talks about reducing the campesino population and then gets into NAFTA.

48 posted on 12/28/2002 10:52:58 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
GATT/NAFTA has been a disaster for American workers/farmers.
49 posted on 12/28/2002 10:54:54 AM PST by BrucefromMtVernon
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To: 1rudeboy
The worst of logical fallacies. Let me ask you this, if more high-paying jobs went south of the border because of NAFTA, then why are more people entering the U.S. in search of high-paying jobs?

Because when businesses move to Mexico or China, the wages go from being liveable here to a dollar or two an hour there.

It's easy to see why an illegal alien would come to the US if they could make at least twice that with bennies like free medical care and schooling to boot.

50 posted on 12/28/2002 10:55:55 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
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