Posted on 12/29/2002 7:15:02 AM PST by ShuShu
This is my first posting as a Newbie so I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly or in the proper area. Let me know if I should have done something differently.
In the news we've been hearing that there may be new legistlation coming in DC which would change the 10 year work requirement for Social Security Benefits for Mexicans and quite possibly even Illegal Aliens from Mexico. I personally think this is outrageous and believe most Americans would agree with me. Here's something else for all Freepers to consider:
As a person who has worked in the Mortgage Industry now for 25 years, I frequently shake my head when I hear about these illegal Mexicans paying into Social Security and never getting anything back. Here is why:
In California for example there are programs for 1st time homebuyer's to help get more people into homeownership, such as CHFA (California Housing Finance Agency) and SCHFA (Southern California Housing Finance Agency). Both of these programs require you to be a first time homebuyer OR to not have owned a primary residence in the last 3 years. The way we document that to satisfy the the requirement is we obtain 3 years of Federal Tax Returns or an IRS print-out of same to prove they have not paid Mortgage Interest or Real Estate Taxes in the last 3 years. There are many similar programs in other states as well.
Most of my career was spent in Southern California and because of these programs I have reviewed countless tax returns of hispanics (many of whom I suspected to be illegal) and I can tell you that they claim so many dependents (both here and in Mexico such as brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, etc.) that they not only get every dime they paid in Income Taxes back but also receive an Earned Income Credit to the point of essentially offsetting whatever they paid in Social Security.
For obvious reasons most of the loans are FHA loans through HUD and are insured by HUD & require minimal down payments. I make this point because on Conventional Loans (FNMA & FHLMC) Lenders are required to obtain a copy of the Resident Alien Cards for Resident Aliens to prove they are here legally on a permanent basis (non-Resident Aliens have financing available to them as well but the terms are not as favorable because of risk factors), however, FHA/HUD does NOT require a copy of this Resident Alien Card. The borrower simply signs the application under perjury penalties, which does not deter anyone.
Because of fear of lawsuits for discrimination I can also tell you that a Lender may have a borrower who speaks little or no english (and may even have to communicate through an interpreter) that claims to be either a Citizen or Resident Alien and it will not be questioned nor any proof required. Since FHA does not require any such documentation a Lender cannot cite their regulations as a basis for the request as they can on Conventional Loans.
It boggles the mind to think how many illegal aliens are homeowers in this Country thanks to these programs, all fully insured by our Government.
I was fortunate enough to escape California in 1998 but doubt if these programs have changed. I can state FHA's policies have not changed.
I am trying to get the word out to as many as possible in hopes of getting our Newspeople to cover it and bring it out for public discussion. One might even hope for legistlation to address this.
You'll need to go to www.freetranslation.com for the meaning. :-)
It's just one more case where the US Gov't (as well as California, who's been completely hijacked by the liberal socialists) have no interest whatsoever in regulating who/what comes into our country and rapes it for all it's worth. And, at the expense of US citizens. And we are expected to take it in the shorts and not complain.
Feeling violated by these people? absolutely.
And welcome to FR.
No Social Security for Illegal Aliens
The Intelligencer (Opinion Piece) Citizens of other countries who have worked legally in the United States are entitled to Social Security benefits based on their time of employment here. They have paid their dues, and they deserve to receive the returns.
But the Bush administration is working on a plan to vastly expand Social Security payments to Mexican nationals who are not currently covered by Social Security related treaties - including illegal Mexican immigrants.
The problem here is not so much the additional burden on Social Security that would be posed by Mexican citizens who worked legally for some time in the United States and accordingly paid into the system.
Their benefits would add less than one-half of one percent to total Social Security payouts.
The potential burden posed by illegal immigrants, however, is another story.
An estimated 13,000 Mexican nationals already have lost benefits because they violated U.S. immigration laws.
And as much as $21 billion in Social Security payments have not been tracked to several potential beneficiaries because they were illegal immigrants who used false Social Security numbers for payroll withholding.
If the United States were to offer Social Security benefits to people who have willingly violated U.S. immigration laws, then it would not be difficult to see how this would create powerful new incentives for people to enter the United States by illegal means.
Yet in negotiations over Social Security payments, this is exactly what the Mexican government says it wants - and the Bush administration seems inclined to agree.
The Bush administration should say "no" to Mexico's attempt to shift its own social welfare burdens onto U.S. taxpayers.
It seems fair to come to agreement on ways for Mexican citizens who legally worked in the United States and paid Social Security taxes to receive the benefits they've earned.
But to extend the same benefit to illegal Mexican immigrants would impose costs that U.S. taxpayers should not be required to bear and, even more important, undermine the rule of law.
Social security plan could benefit Mexicans
By Rob Manning
LEE COUNTY, December 20, 2002 - Thousands of Mexican immigrants in Southwest Florida might be eligible for Social Security benefits earlier if a new plan takes effect. Currently, the immigrants must work ten years in the United States before receiving benefits. They also pay into Mexico’s retirement system - resulting in double taxation.
"Let's take the people on both sides of the border and help them, show them we can work together as one,” said Christina Leddin of the Amigos Center.
The new Social Security plan would allow Mexicans to count work in Mexico or the U.S. to count towards the ten years. Plus, the plan would allow them to choose either country’s retirement system - they wouldn’t have to pay into both.
"You definitely have Mexicans who come here and live here for many years, but then you have another percentage, that maybe come and work 'X' number of years of their life and then go back. This other percentage, that group of people that never could have tapped into what they earned here in terms of retirement benefits will now be able to,” said Leddin.
The agreement with Mexico might not get off the ground anytime soon because of concerns over its cost. The Social Security program in the United States is already strapped for cash, and even immigration advocates in Southwest Florida have questions about the proposal.
"Our Social Security system is not in good shape to begin with. I don't think we should do anything that would hurt the US because this is the greatest country in the world, and that's why we have millions of people knocking on the door every year wanting to come in,” said Cathy Whidden Perez of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.
The United States already has similar agreements with 20 other countries. Whether Mexico is added to the list depends on politics. The Bush administration says it is only exploring the agreement with Mexico.
There is no word yet on how much it would cost - only that it would be more expensive than similar agreements with other countries.
I did not know how they do it - but I do know that legal and illegal aliens seem to be able purchase homes and businesses in numbers that boggle the mind.
Your post is very enlightening and I wish more and more, who can prove more or less, what is going on and all the ways we are being taken to the cleaners. Many of us know this, we (or I) did not know exactly how they accomplished it.
I have been attacked by people saying the ones who pay in taxes never get any of it back. Also that illegal aliens cannot get loans, etc. There is usually a lot of misinformation posted out there and many of us know it isn't true - but someone like you who has seen it has valuable information that needs to be heard.
So thanks very much.
Maybe we should ask all those Enron former executives who are building Oceanfront Villas in Mexico how they do it?
sw
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Don't know if you recall a huge problem a couple of years ago, many American lease owners in Baja were having their places confiscated because some other "mucky-mucks" came along and said that their long term, 50-100 year leases made with the locals were not valid. (perhaps someone can reiterate on this?). Basically, you might own the house, but not the property it rests on. And there is nothing you can do about it.
Another fellow I was talking to here in AZ has had a family place in Puerto Penasco for over 40 years. However, the lease is coming up next year, and there is no chance for renewal. He can't sell, has sunk $$$$$ into it, and now will lose his place that he, and his kids/grandkids have shared for 3 generations.
Basically, in Mexico, we have no rights. We play by their rules. Period.
Anything is possible in Mexico, you just have to have dineros.
'Ping' your 'Ping' lists to this one. Here's a new Freeper with a report from the 'Front Lines'.
Great post. Glad to have another voice join the chorus against this rip-off of the U.S. Taxpayers by illegal immigrants from everywhere.
A number of other Freepers have mentioned that Mexicans and Canadians can both claim excessive numbers of dependents in their home countries on their tax returns and receive an 'Earned Income Tax Credit' that offsets or exceeds the amount they have paid into Social Security.
Add the free medical care they steal at emergency rooms, education and health care for their children, welfare, foodstamps, SSI and Medicaid that they receive for their elderly family members that they bring along with them, etc. and we really are getting robbed blind.
It stated you could own land but not within 100 miles of a coastline or border. That may have changed - but that has been within the last 6 years.
I remember you must have a guaranteed income of a certain amount and there were some restrictions regarding household goods - don't really remember what.
Thank you sir! . . .and Right On!. I know some small business people up in Oregon who can validate that statement. Claiming nine dependents is deemed asking for it, even though that is the supposed max without IRS inquiry. So, these guys in their late teen-early 20s routinely claim eight dependents and slide right under the radar. If I would receive $1-million for each time the perjury law on this was enforced, I'd still be a middle-class peon.
That was an interesting point on the Earned Income - I hadn't thought of that abuse, but evidently they did.
"I am trying to get the word out to as many as possible in hopes of getting our Newspeople to cover it and bring it out for public discussion. One might even hope for legistlation to address this."For starters, you might want to send this along to Col. Ben Anderson who has a ranch near/on the border and publishes a newsletter with the straight truth about border/illegal immigration issues.
He will gladly give you tips on getting the word out on this. He has been meeting with Cong. Tom Tancredo, of the Immigration Reform Caucus.
ben@azanderson.org
Welcome to Free Republic!
I wonder who is living in these homes now? One guess!
Anything goes in Mexico, and there isn't a darn thing anyone can do about it. I think a lot of Americans think it's pretty harmless down there, but they are far from right. Unless you can bribe your way thorugh, you really are taking a gamble with your investments...and you'll most likely be on the losing end.
You are correct, Michelle kicked the other guy's butt. However, when asked if she thought this would happen, she said she thought it was pretty much green-lighted.
I'd like to opt out of SS whether this goes through or not. It is no more than a Ponzi scheme. The gov't steals my wages and promises to hold it until I retire, because I am too stupid to plan for my own retirement. They tell me when I can retire & then they change the rules in the middle of the scheme by moving the retirement age from 65 to 67. They know they won't have any money left to cash me out & now want to send my money to Mexico for illegals.
Too bad these gov't crooks can't be arrested.
That is only one story, there are more.
Dutchy, hate to be the bearer of more bad news but take a look at this first-hand report. Welcome ShuShu.
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