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Immigration and Texas' Budget Crisis: The Elephant in the Room
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | December 30, 2002 | Chris Allen

Posted on 12/30/2002 5:37:04 AM PST by SJackson

The coming session of the Texas Legislature has been billed as "the perfect storm" because of the looming $5 to $12 billion-dollar budget shortfall. Although the evidence suggests that immigration, both legal and illegal, is fueling the rapid growth in state spending on social services, this issue is almost entirely absent from the debate.

It is well established that recent immigrants use more in services than they pay in taxes, particularly to state and local governments. The National Research Council, a branch of the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, estimates the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with most government expenditures on immigrants coming from state and local coffers, while most taxes paid by immigrants go to the federal treasury. This is the result of the relatively low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.

According to 2000 U.S. Census data, some 13.2 percent of immigrants enroll in welfare programs compared with 2.1 percent of native-born Americans. In Medicaid, 18.6 percent of immigrants participate, as opposite 12.1 percent of native-born. Mexican immigrants, who comprise the vast majority of immigrants to Texas, use food stamps at nearly twice the rate of native-born Americans and collect an average welfare payment that is 20 percent higher than those recipients.

The National Research Council found that in California, which has endured a similar flood of Mexican immigration as Texas, each native household is paying about $1,178 a year in state and local taxes to cover the gap between the services used by immigrant households and their tax receipts. Although Texas was not included in this study, there is no reason to think the reality is any different here.

Indeed, during the last three years, the Harris County Hospital District alone spent $330 million to treat and immunize illegal immigrants, estimated to be at least 20 percent of their indigent caseload. The District covers this expense through its escalating tax burden on local taxpayers and through cost-shifting to Medicaid and insured patients. The District provides not only emergency care to illegal immigrants, but also a full range of elective services, even access to its fertility clinic that is not included in the health plan for District employees. While the 700,000 illegal immigrants in Texas are only eligible for welfare if they have worked for at least ten years or received asylum, they receive free health care, food stamps, education, and nearly all other government services.

In 2002, Medicaid represented 22.6% of Texas' budget. That number is expected to increase to 23.7% in 2003 in the wake of an August 19 report by the Health and Human Services Commission concluding that, because of higher-than-planned growth in caseloads, the state's Medicaid and children's health insurance programs will cost $2.4 billion more in the next budget cycle than in the current one. Since 1987, the Texas Medicaid budget has grown 500 percent, due in large part to increased enrollment, much of it undoubtedly the result of immigration.

The growth in state health care spending is just one example of how immigration is contributing to the budget shortfall. All of the school districts in South Texas receive Robin Hood recapture payments. Although these districts would likely be poor regardless of current levels of immigration, they would not be experiencing such large growth in their enrollments. It is this growth that is responsible for the budget crises in both urban and suburban districts that are being forced to send more and more of their local tax revenues to the state, leaving them unable to meet the needs of their own students.

Immigration is also a major factor in the population growth that is responsible for growing traffic congestion and pollution in Texas' major cities.

Ultimately, the Legislature's sensitivity to public opinion is likely to forestall a general tax increase this session, but that may come at the expense of vital funding for transportation and higher education, as well as Robin Hood relief. Unfortunately, even though the state bears most of the cost of immigration, it is virtually powerless to control it because it is the constitutional responsibility of the federal government.

Until Washington fortifies border enforcement to stop illegal immigration and reduces the number of unskilled legal immigrants, Texans will pay for the consequences, whether in higher taxes or the crowding out of important government services. While immigrants continue to contribute much to Texas and the nation, if we attempt to absorb all of the many millions of indigent people throughout the world, we will sacrifice the very quality of life that has led so many people to come here.

Chris Allen is State Chairman of the Young Conservatives of Texas (www.yct.org) and a graduate student at the George Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University.

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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: immigrantlist
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To: deport
Well, sure, if all you consider is sq. ft. but....

The value of those 60 rental units (& the income generated) is way more than my 10,000 sq. ft. lot and 800 sq. ft. house.

The point is that the landlord isn't made to pay an anywhere near an equivalent percentage of property/school/use tax on his 60 rental units and therefore doesn't pass the costs on to the co renter families living in them.

If your thought was true, my county should be awash in cash due to the burgening rental population (many Hispanic recent arrivals, BTW) and should be building schools by the bunch with all that rental generated tax income.

That's not happening because the rental tax money just isn't there in a sufficient amount to cover their costs. Hence my property tax bill went up almost 50% this year and they are going to try it again next year we are told.
51 posted on 12/30/2002 12:16:14 PM PST by citizen
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To: gubamyster
The CBS polls, before/after 9-11, mentioned at the bottom of Worldview indicates a 10 point shift.
52 posted on 12/30/2002 12:23:07 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: gubamyster
This is another myth perpetuated by the pro-illegal crowd. These jobs are desired by American citizens and would be done by Americans at a fair wage.

I own a modest orchard in south Texas. It was harvested this past Friday. I contract out the work and have no idea of the legal status of the workers.

T'wasn't, however, a whole lot of English spoken out in the orchard that morning. Meanwhile, English speaking America works at my neighborhood McDonald's. McDonald's does not pay nearly as well as grapefruit harvesting does (which is why immigrants come), so where are the English speaking or Anglo grapefruit pickers?

You state Americans (do you mean white Americans? or just the brown ones?) would love these jobs, so I must ask: would you care to harvest my orchard next year with a crew you can find of the citizens you profess covet this work? With your crew of English speakers or Anglos, whomever you organize, you could thereby make your point in the realm of deed and not rhetoric. I pay market price, no more. As a capitalist, the market will always govern-- and thus the immigrants come.

Do you dream of this enterprise for your children? Will you smile proudly when your grown children punch their ladders into the dirt, climb among the raspy limbs and tree after tree, row after row, twist the heavy fruit into their waist sacks, quick as light? (For if they lollygag, they will not profit.)

Migrant children are eligible for federal funding and unique scholarship opportunities, you know. But you probably wouldn't like that. Don't guess I'll be seeing the Americans you speak of in the family orchard next December-- just those damn budget bandits, legal or not.

53 posted on 12/30/2002 12:41:59 PM PST by RainDog
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To: citizen
Is there a variation in tax rates on many different types of property. Are those farmers paying their share? What about those SOBs that got an abatement just to move into the district?
54 posted on 12/30/2002 12:43:27 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: RainDog
Somebody must be paying way to much for labor. I haven't seen any cheap ruby reds this year.
55 posted on 12/30/2002 12:49:54 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
The CBS polls, before/after 9-11, mentioned at the bottom of Worldview indicates a 10 point shift.

That reinforces my point. A 10-point shift post 9-11 indicates still a substantial portion of Americans opposing illegal immigration & supporting immigration reform prior to 9-11.

56 posted on 12/30/2002 12:55:55 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: Ben Ficklin
Somebody must be paying way to[sic] much for labor. I haven't seen any cheap ruby reds this year.

Again, I am a capitalist. I held the following trees from being picked: two grapefruit, one navel, and a lemon. The grapefruit will be exquisite next month.

Mail me privately if you would like to purchase-- nah, they're free to you so to abide by list rules if you cover shipping-- from the tree. I'll pick 'em. (grin)

57 posted on 12/30/2002 1:09:33 PM PST by RainDog
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To: RainDog
Hey all, I am on vacation, and my 10 year old wants to go do baseball and agility drills outside. I am out for now on this thread but promise to answer your challenges later tonight.

It's been fun! Bring it on:)

58 posted on 12/30/2002 1:15:49 PM PST by RainDog
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To: RainDog
I own a modest orchard in south Texas. It was harvested this past Friday. I contract out the work and have no idea of the legal status of the workers.

Well, this explains a lot. You have no problem w/ illegals, because you can exploit them to reduce your labor costs. BTW, knowingly hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Maybe you should ask for documentation next picking season.

You state Americans (do you mean white Americans? or just the brown ones?) would love these jobs, so I must ask: would you care to harvest my orchard next year with a crew you can find of the citizens you profess covet this work? With your crew of English speakers or Anglos, whomever you organize, you could thereby make your point in the realm of deed and not rhetoric. I pay market price, no more. As a capitalist, the market will always govern-- and thus the immigrants come.

Americans, of any color (don’t try to invoke racism here), may not love, but would take these jobs if the wages were comparable to comparable jobs in the market.

No, I would not care to participate in your harvest next year. That is because I worked full time while putting myself to school and earned a college degree. I then went on to become a certified professional in my field. However, I have a more-than-full time position & during tax season I take on extra work on the weekends & after work preparing tax returns.

Now, I’ll tell you that growing up in Central Illinois during the ’60 & ‘70’s I started out in about the 5th grade walking beans. This is manual field labor walking miles in bean fields pulling, by hand, weeds. I did this during the summers until I was old enough for the local grain company to hire me to detassel corn. This is standing on a rickety old machine, going through the fields, pulling tassels out of corn plants. If you were real good, you could get a couple of extra weeks at the end of the season doing hand-inoculation. These jobs usually lasted until early afternoon, at which time I would come home & mow lawns in the neighborhood. There were plenty of (white, if it matters to you) high school kids doing this right alongside me for generations in my town. Plenty of them were farmer’s kids & are now farmers. Many others went into the armed services to protect the citizens of America.

Would I like this as a career for my kids – no. But, I wouldn’t mind if they did it for a summer job, in order to learn what real work is & the value of a good education. I’ll tell you, when my kids are big enough, they will be mowing my lawn, and performing other chores around the house. Where I live, most people hire gardeners & maids. Not me. I will not hire anything done that I can do myself.

59 posted on 12/30/2002 1:18:10 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: gubamyster
I won't try to argue with you that there is a certain number, maybe substantial.

What I saying is that the numbers, or the significance of the numbers, are being exagerated. I've pointed out several of the ways it is being done.

Polling is polling and we should not buy into for one subject, else we have to buy into it on all subjects. Its the Republic versus a Democracy thing.

60 posted on 12/30/2002 1:34:43 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: citizen
Well, sure, if all you consider is sq. ft. but....


What else is there? Sq ft (or acreage) plus improvements then the type property, commercial, residential, industrial, farm, wetlands, unimproved, etc. Sounds like you are appreciative of having the fortune of living where ever it is you do

61 posted on 12/30/2002 1:38:18 PM PST by deport
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To: RainDog
I'm sure Arturo works hard to please your perspective

He lived just across the border in Brownsville, went to college in Houston and couldn't care less what I think of him. He just doesn't like supporting parasites.

62 posted on 12/30/2002 1:38:44 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: lewislynn
Send the bill to the Feds, they ‘control’ the boarder. Time for the Feds to pay for this mess

The Feds is you.

The Feds is you and me, right now it's only me taken care of the bill.

63 posted on 12/30/2002 2:44:23 PM PST by Lockbox
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To: Lockbox
The Feds is you and me, right now it's only me taken care of the bill.

Then can I have my money back?

64 posted on 12/30/2002 5:13:24 PM PST by lewislynn
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To: RainDog
Nice try with the race card slick.
65 posted on 12/30/2002 5:39:35 PM PST by junta
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To: lewislynn
Then can I have my money back?

Right after I get mine.

66 posted on 12/30/2002 5:42:06 PM PST by Lockbox
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To: MissAmericanPie
nor is it our obligation to save or feed the world

Bravo! Exactly!

67 posted on 12/30/2002 6:50:44 PM PST by neutrino
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To: RainDog
With your crew of English speakers or Anglos

Not just them ---have you ever seen ANY of the immigrants' kids willing to do this work? You won't, they're less likely to take these jobs than Americans' kids, a life on welfare and government handouts has them expecting free tuitions and the rest.

68 posted on 12/30/2002 7:51:47 PM PST by FITZ
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To: RainDog
Notice the article never uses the word "Hispanic"; instead, "immigrant" is code for Hispanic.

That's pretty racist of you because where I live there's plenty of Hispanics who aren't immigrants and technically never were immigrants since they were here when this region became the US ---hint ---few of them want open borders either ---Silvestre Reyes was actually elected to Congress from an overwhelmingly Hispanic region after he became popular from his Operation Blockade and Operation Hold-the-Line. It's really only people financially benefitting from what is cheap labor to themselves because the costs of the labor are passed on the taxpayers who believe in open borders.

69 posted on 12/30/2002 7:58:55 PM PST by FITZ
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To: SJackson
The National Research Council found that in California, which has endured a similar flood of Mexican immigration as Texas, each native household is paying about $1,178 a year in state and local taxes to cover the gap between the services used by immigrant households and their tax receipts. Although Texas was not included in this study, there is no reason to think the reality is any different here.

I know it's a serious problem in Texas ---possibly worse because along the border, the property taxes are much higher than $1,178 a year on an average home ---the wages are low but the property taxes match NY's. I wonder how much total tax the average taxpayer in Texas at least in a border county pays compared with the average in California. I read that to pay just this year's budget deficit in California, each resident would have to pay $1000, I wonder how much of the Texas $12 billion deficit translates to each TAXPAYING resident since fewer and fewer residents pay much taxes.

70 posted on 12/30/2002 8:06:38 PM PST by FITZ
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To: Centurion2000
Thanks for speaking up for renters!I'm renting for the first time in my life and at $1600.00 rent paid per month I assume some of that goes for property taxes paid by my landlord.
71 posted on 12/30/2002 8:10:33 PM PST by Mears
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To: RainDog
Right on RainDog. I agree with your
excellent post.

Liberty
72 posted on 12/30/2002 8:12:56 PM PST by Liberty Valance
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To: RainDog
I live and interact with illegals daily, send them packing until there is a fool proof way to keep them from voting, getting welfare, WIC, and sending their kids to school without charge, then demand they be taught in Spanish.

This is our country, not a flop house, it is not up for grabs. Sure we need menial labor to a point. But not to the point where American carpenters are put out of the picture due to the wage being too low, because let me tell ya, cheap labor has not translated to cheaper housing prices, just more profit for the builder.

Have you noticed the air lines having a problem replacing screeners and workers with real Americans? I haven't. This b o l o g n a that Mexicans do jobs Americans won't do is a crock. For the most part they take up jobs that Americans need, and need at a living wage.

There is more to America, and being an American than economics and companies charging the same price as if they had used American labor. Not to mention I am sure I am not the only American tired of having the FBI ask us to pick up their mess if we want to save our rears from another 9-11 attack.

The nerve of saying to the public, "Yeah we were tailing these guys right across the border then we lost them, can you, John Q Public fix the mess we made?" The protection of our borders should be number one on the agenda, all other efforts are for show and a waste of time and billions of dollars. Home Land Security is not even close to being able to accomplish security and never will be. You don't let the enemy in the gate then cross your fingers for luck.

Until Americans make it clear that we will not accept the idea that the loss of a few thousand American lives is acceptable as long as free trade isn't interfered with then we will not be doing our jobs as citizens will we. Until we make it clear that this is our home, not a corporation, not Disney Land, then we will continue to be over run until we are no longer an America worth living in.
73 posted on 12/30/2002 8:22:00 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: RainDog
With respect to immigrants, immigrants pay rent, purchase gods, pay sales tax, pay gasoline tax, provide labor and services and on an on, and while no one has real stats on the gray/black economy, immigrants are more than likely a net PLUS for the Texas economy.

Are you guessing at that? Well then, I'm guessing that immigrants are more than likely a net MINUS for the Texas economy.

74 posted on 12/30/2002 8:37:56 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: RainDog
It also pleases me to note that the $13 billion Mexicans sent home was made the American way-- they earned it.

That's if you don't count the money they send home to Mexico that they receive from welfare, from the food stamps that they sell for cash, and from the money that they save by living 10 to an apartment, a violation of most city's zoning laws. And do you think that maybe at least a few Mexicans may engage in criminal activity such as selling drugs to bring in some money?

75 posted on 12/30/2002 8:51:07 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: RainDog
McDonald's does not pay nearly as well as grapefruit harvesting does (which is why immigrants come), so where are the English speaking or Anglo grapefruit pickers?

If you paid a decent wage and it was year-round work, you should have no problem finding American workers to do that type of work. So, would you care to tell us how much you pay your workers, and is it year-round work?

76 posted on 12/30/2002 8:59:19 PM PST by judgeandjury
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To: Ben Ficklin
Thanks for the links. I had some different info that I will go back and look at.
77 posted on 12/30/2002 9:50:31 PM PST by Marine Inspector
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To: gubamyster
Don't mess with Texas....LOL!
78 posted on 12/30/2002 9:56:01 PM PST by Joe Hadenuf
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To: judgeandjury
Are you guessing at that? Well then, I'm guessing that immigrants are more than likely a net MINUS for the Texas economy.

No one has objective stats on the cost/benefit of immigrants, particularly illegal immigrants. So yes, I am guessing.

But my guess is based upon a core belief/trust in capitalism. You see I love the wonderful phenomenon of politically dispassionate markets.

It is real simple: if the market/economy (which is the ultimate cost/benefit analyzer) does not want immigrants, it would not attract immigrants. But the market/economy does attracts immigrants, because the market/economy needs immigrants.

Maybe you are a communist or something, I dunno why you can't understand this, but if you insist on banishing people from our land, please begin with the homeless, disabled, retarded, retired, unemployed, democrats:)-- not hard working Hispanic immigrants.

79 posted on 12/31/2002 2:50:35 PM PST by RainDog
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To: SJackson
What a sad betrayal of the heroic sacrifice of the brave men who died at the Alamo, to secure Texas for those who share its traditional culture! The cowards who refuse to face an issue that goes to the very survival of that culture, deserve only the contempt of all decent men and women. I am not a Texan, but I appreciate the tragedy befalling fellow Americans, who happen to be.

May the New Year bring courage and principle to those who this year have shown little or none--not only in Texas, but all over America.

For my fellow Conservatives, who have fought the good fight, I wish all a very Happy New Year!

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

80 posted on 12/31/2002 2:57:26 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: FITZ
That's pretty racist of you

I don't know if you noticed or not, but I am a rare Freeper who defends Hispanic immigrants, and your reply joins a small chorus that says I am racist. Shame on your chorus.

Life's ironies. If you only knew of my proud personal demographics . . . he . . . he . . .

81 posted on 12/31/2002 3:04:38 PM PST by RainDog
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To: judgeandjury
So, would you care to tell us how much you pay your workers, and is it year-round work?

Grapefruit/citrus is harvested once a year. It is seasonal work, other than disking the orchard of weeds and spraying for critters a couple of times a year.

I discussed pay and made an offer earlier that was not accepted. The contract has therefore returned to its former obligee. Thank you for inquiring.

82 posted on 12/31/2002 3:15:45 PM PST by RainDog
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To: judgeandjury
And do you think that maybe at least a few Mexicans may engage in criminal activity such as selling drugs to bring in some money?

Oh yes, some surely do, and I'm sure you agree it is terribly embarrassing that such an overwhelming number of white Americans lust for illicit drugs.

Pesky markets.

83 posted on 12/31/2002 3:24:27 PM PST by RainDog
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To: Liberty Valance
Right on RainDog.

Thanks, pal. The Duke would be proud.

No sé si usted habla español o no; no importa. Apenas quisiera que usted supiera que los inmigrantes hispánicos sean la gente hermosa que merece respecto. Maldito poco se ha ofrecido en esta discusión. Eso me preocupa. Afortunadamente, tengo los medios de articular otra perspectiva a estos numbnuts.

84 posted on 12/31/2002 3:43:20 PM PST by RainDog
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To: RainDog
I'm sorry you are so niave. Although, I suppose, you don't know that, do you? You've been bludgeoned with facts and logic, but managed to ignore it all. I can recommend a good Realtor in McAllen or El Paso, if you feel so passionate about the situation. Six months in one of those cities, where they are going to have to close hospitals because of the costs of illegal hispanic immigrants, otherwise known as Mexicans, and if you had eyes, they'd be opened. If you love high taxes so much, send in an extra ten grand next year, but leave me out of it.
85 posted on 12/31/2002 4:02:03 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: RainDog
Thanks for explaining. Now we know that you owe your living to cheap, illegal, labor. So, it's ok with you for your city, county, state and country to go broke, so you can have cheap labor? Thank God you weren't around at the founding of this country.
86 posted on 12/31/2002 4:06:00 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: gubamyster
I worked baling hay one summer, and three summers offshore. (oil) Neither were careers, but I made good money and learned about work there. I wouldn't want to steal that from any American child of any race. In fact, baling hay, the hardest thing I've ever done, convinced me that I did NOT want to do manual labor my whole life.
87 posted on 12/31/2002 4:12:02 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: RainDog
" I discussed pay and made an offer earlier that was not accepted. The contract has therefore returned to its former obligee. Thank you for inquiring. "

Gonna stick with the cheap illegal labor again this year, huh? How suprising.

88 posted on 12/31/2002 4:13:39 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: RainDog
Bringing race into a discussion where it's not relevant is race baiting at a minumum, and probably racist. No one here cares where the illegals come from. In many areas of Calif. Asians make up the illegal problem. It's still a problem that we should not have to pay for.
89 posted on 12/31/2002 4:16:42 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: RainDog
" Oh yes, some surely do, and I'm sure you agree it is terribly embarrassing that such an overwhelming number of white Americans lust for illicit drugs. "

Wow, I'm convinced. Because some Americans lust for drugs, let's let more drug dealers in? Or overwhelm our country with socialistic programs we can't hope to pay for? That's some deep thinking you're doing there.

90 posted on 12/31/2002 4:21:02 PM PST by Republic of Texas
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To: Republic of Texas
Thanks for explaining. Now we know that you owe your living to cheap, illegal, labor.

Hardly, but I love your passion.

Nobody makes money on citrus in south Texas anymore. Our orchard and crop acres are tended by a sharecropper; FWIW, with all the recent (and surprising) rain, he planted melons out back this year as a winter crop. They're boot heel tall as we speak. His job is to keep our property beautiful and tidy and at least break even.

My friend, it is our education, careers, hard work, and pursuit of perfection that keeps our family and land going. The result of which is that while my wife and I have a regrettably arguable claim to youth, life is already shake-your-head-and-sigh-because-it-is-so-dadgum-good good.

Texas and America. May other Hispanic immigrants (and Americans) so prosper.

(Aside: notice how the tread began with an issue and now has digressed to an individual with an offending perspective fending off personal attacks. Situation normal. Viva Free Republic!)

91 posted on 12/31/2002 4:58:19 PM PST by RainDog
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To: RainDog
If you only knew of my proud personal demographics . . . he . . . he . . .

Your personal demographics wouldn't tell me a thing, you lumped all hispanics together which isn't something I would do and most that I know make a distinction between immigrants and US citizens and also which country they're from. I actually know few hispanics who prefer that descriptor ---most Mexicans from Mexico call themselves Mexican, US born descendents of them are Chicanos, most Puerto Ricans are Puerto Ricans, Americans of Spanish descent are Spanish-American or Spanish-American-Indian ---for a while they were using Hispanic and some still do but it seems most want Spanish-descended now.

92 posted on 12/31/2002 5:07:02 PM PST by FITZ
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To: RainDog
tread = thread

You know, those boot heel high melon chutes sure are green and cute. They run two/beside to a row; we'll see how they turn out.
93 posted on 12/31/2002 5:08:30 PM PST by RainDog
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To: citizen; RainDog
And don't forget many landlords that offer "welfare housing" are subsidized by state and local governments to do so, which further adds to the drain on our national economy. We have to start doing a better job at restricting access to our resources from both legal and illegal immigrants, Hispanic or other.

I really get sick of the "race card" being thrown out when the issue is talked about. It ain't about race. It is about finite resources and our ability to pay for them.

94 posted on 12/31/2002 5:09:38 PM PST by ImpBill
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To: FITZ
most Mexicans from Mexico call themselves Mexican

Glad to see someone has figured all that out. Go ahead and let the good folk who fit your descriptors know.

95 posted on 12/31/2002 5:14:31 PM PST by RainDog
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To: RainDog
My friend, it is our education, careers, hard work, and pursuit of perfection that keeps our family and land going.

And of course the dirt cheap wages you pay your illegal workers. Slightly more than they are paid in Mexico by the wealthy over there. Here the taxpayers can be soaked for the free education, free school lunches, WIC, free medical care and all the rest which allows you to pay as little as you possibly can. Makes it much harder of course for your more honest neighbors who might pay their employees legal wages and gasp! offer them health care benefits.

96 posted on 12/31/2002 5:21:36 PM PST by FITZ
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To: RainDog
And again --about your personal demographics --I've been to Mexico MANY times and I've seen very often how the 'elite' Mexicans treat their working class. I'm not at all impressed.
97 posted on 12/31/2002 5:23:19 PM PST by FITZ
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To: FITZ; RainDog
Fitz, give it up.RainDog obviously has a vested self-interest in protecting his personal self-interest at the expense of all legal citizens of the USA.He calls it capitolism, he ignores the criminal aspects of his illegal hiring practices.

RainDog, enjoy your little self-induced blindness.You are indeed an enabler of the destruction of the USA by your self-centered and short sighted vision of fair market rules.Do you enjoy your status as "El Patrone" with the peasants?

I do not know you, but based on what you have posted, you seem to be mere inches away from advocating slave labor.It is a profitable endeavor.

Fortuneately, slavery is illegal in the USA.Soon, I hope to see you and employers like yourself, charged, convicted, and jailed under current existant labor laws.

You sir, are guilty of perpetuating a class of fearfull and poverty stricken serfs.Perhaps you would have been a Royalist, or a plantation owner, 100-300 years ago.Your reasoning so far, is in direct contradiction to the dreams and goals of freedom and respect for individual rights fought for by myself and my ancestors.

Continue to call "racist" all who call you a criminal extortionist of human misery.While I dream that our nation, supposedly based on the rule of law, will resolve this issue, I am certain God will sort us all out, eventually.

98 posted on 12/31/2002 6:29:31 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: sarasmom
I hope to see you . . . charged, convicted, and jailed under current existant labor laws.

Oh, this is rich. I am loving this thread, philosophically and personally.

It is good enough, in fact, to keep me in and out of the house checking the thread amongst a barbeque (winter is canceled in these parts) and throwing fireworks (one of the many freedoms Texas provides) on New Year's Eve!

Freep on.

99 posted on 12/31/2002 6:44:08 PM PST by RainDog
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To: FITZ
I've been to Mexico MANY times . . .

I must again defer to you the obvious expert, dear FITZ. Comparta por favor su sabiduría con las masas "huddled" pobres.

100 posted on 12/31/2002 6:55:47 PM PST by RainDog
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