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High-Priced Emancipation [Book Review: Why There Are No Good Men Left]
The Wall Street Journal ^ | Friday, January 3, 2002 | MEGHAN COX GURDON

Posted on 01/03/2003 7:50:23 AM PST by TroutStalker

Edited on 04/22/2004 11:47:49 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Anyone who has ever struggled to find a house to buy should intuitively understand the difficulties faced by the legions of accomplished, educated, 30ish women currently roaming society in search of a husband. They are the stuff of mass entertainment now, these handsome, quick-witted graduates of higher education. On TV, they're the saucy females of "Sex and the City" and "Will & Grace." They surface in fiction as lovelorn Bridget Jones and the hapless heroines of Pam Houston's best-selling short stories.


(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


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To all those quick-witted graduates of higher education, here is something we guys have always known: Why buy the cow, when the milk is free?
1 posted on 01/03/2003 7:50:23 AM PST by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
Or, as a gentleman of my acquaintance is fond of saying, "Everytime I feel like getting married, I just find myself a woman I don't like and buy her a house."
2 posted on 01/03/2003 7:57:39 AM PST by okie01
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To: TroutStalker
I am going to add to the discussion here TS. I would also add that liberals try so hard to cultuvate the notion that women don't need men and by the time they are 30-something they find it very hard to find any men. But as I have always said, guys should be cautious of women in their late 30 who have not married because there is usually a reason why this is so; such as they are unstable psychos, too selfish, a wacko ultra-lib, etc..
3 posted on 01/03/2003 8:00:13 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: TroutStalker
And if these college educated super-career women get a little lonely, they can always curl up with a warm fuzzy Econ 101 book.
4 posted on 01/03/2003 8:03:47 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: TroutStalker
You beat me to it, Trout. We don't need college professors to tell us what my mother told me forty years ago. Some other goods ones are:

If he'll cheat WITH you, he'll cheat ON you.

No man will respect you if you don't respect yourself.

Never have anything to do with a man who would lay a hand on you in anger.

A man will say anything to get what he wants, but he won't respect you in the morning.

A man wants to marry someone he isn't ashamed to introduce to his mother.

. . . . Worked for me, and for my four daughters.

5 posted on 01/03/2003 8:07:07 AM PST by lady lawyer
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To: KC_Conspirator
Or they have been too long on the cycle:

And traditional courtship -- stages of increasing, public, romantic seriousness, culminating in marriage -- has been substantially replaced by a cyclical "relationships" system.

6 posted on 01/03/2003 8:07:37 AM PST by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
"Why There Are No Good Men Left" for women 35-45.

It is because men 25-35 are chasing women 25-35

It is because men 35-45 are chasing women 25-35

It is because women chased their careers when they were 25-35

7 posted on 01/03/2003 8:12:18 AM PST by 2banana
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To: lady lawyer
Your mother has more common sense than most professors. I'm sure your daughters will pass it on, too.
8 posted on 01/03/2003 8:12:53 AM PST by TroutStalker
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To: 2banana
You forgot the affluent men 45-65 who are looking for trophy wives 25-35.
9 posted on 01/03/2003 8:16:20 AM PST by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
Mrs. Gurdon is a writer in Washington.

And a very good one. Well done, Missus.

10 posted on 01/03/2003 8:16:57 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: 2banana
And it's because lesbians 35-45 are also chasing women 25-35.
11 posted on 01/03/2003 8:16:59 AM PST by Enterprise
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To: TroutStalker
I'm wondering how they define "good". I'm curious for selfish reasons, of course, being a 40+ bachelor who has always wanted to be married but never seemed to be deemed "good".
12 posted on 01/03/2003 8:19:33 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: 2banana
AND, maybe it's because men have seen what happens when "she" decides she doesn't "love" him anymore....and decides to find someone else (or finds someone else and decides she doesn't "love" him anymore)....she takes 1/2 the assets, the kids, and then makes him pay while she shacks up with another male.
13 posted on 01/03/2003 8:19:34 AM PST by goodnesswins
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To: 2banana
I won't deny that I'm still looking in the women 25-35 group. I would like to start my own family, not raise somebody else's.
14 posted on 01/03/2003 8:22:04 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: alpowolf
I'm wondering how they define "good".

It is an ever-changing definition hidden within woman's labyrinthine reasoning process.

15 posted on 01/03/2003 8:25:09 AM PST by Loyalist
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To: 2banana; TroutStalker; Enterprise
You're all right. Those gals 25-35 have got it made, it seems.
16 posted on 01/03/2003 8:26:35 AM PST by expatpat
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To: TroutStalker
What I see on dating services that I think is tragic, is the army of women about 39 to 46 who are looking for a man, supposedly, and say that they "definitely want children"-- and that they don't have any yet.

Are they just hoping the MAN has some, or have they forgotten that they have already run out the clock, so to speak.

17 posted on 01/03/2003 8:27:29 AM PST by crystalk
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: TroutStalker
Let me see, where to start.

1) Most great husbands don't make it past 30-ish before being married the first time. Why? 'Tis simple, ladies who are looking for such, find them, and remove them from the market.

2) Many older men (30-40) look for the younger types (22-30). If these older men are now looking for a family, you can probably add many of them to the count from #1 above.

3) Many of the spinsters-to-be go to the wrong places because they're accustomed to meeting the wrong type of guys. Hint: stay away from non-family oriented places and gatherings!

4) Unrealistic expectations. He probably won't be Ben Affleck, 6'3", 32" waist, 225#, with the softness and courage of Frodo, and six figure salary with the grace and style of Sean Connery. My beautiful wife has several freinds that won't look at a guy unless he resembles a >2C flawless diamond. (all insinuations included!)
19 posted on 01/03/2003 8:30:32 AM PST by fuente
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To: Loyalist
It is an ever-changing definition hidden within woman's labyrinthine reasoning process

Yes, and unfortunately I'm too slow-witted to keep up. I'm always a step behind.

20 posted on 01/03/2003 8:32:04 AM PST by alpowolf
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To: cynaman
If I had the choice today of being married or not, NOT, wins in a walk.

You said it all. I have nothing to add.

21 posted on 01/03/2003 8:35:06 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: expatpat
Those gals 25-35 have got it made, it seems.

19-22 yr old women would beg to differ. 25 is the upper limit these days before a woman's options begin to diminish rapidly.

22 posted on 01/03/2003 8:37:44 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
bump
23 posted on 01/03/2003 8:41:32 AM PST by Centurion2000
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To: TroutStalker
My mother (arg...) and my sister bought into the "you can have it all" FemiNazi B.S. that started in the 60's. Mom jettisoned my wonderful dad when I was 11 years old, telling him "I don't need you anymore!" when she earned her master's degree (which he paid for).

Sister married her college sweetheart (a decent fellow) and immediately put him LAST, because of course getting a Ph.D. from U.C. Berkley (gag) and "My Career!" came first. 25 years later, she's divorced and remarried to an unemployed BUM, and has had 2 out of her 4 children wind up in juvenile detention. Yeah, that "have it all" bullsh*t really paid off, didn't it?

I never bought into that FemiNazi tripe(don't exactly know why, either--LOL)-- I always thought getting married, supporting hubby's career, and having babies was a perfectly honorable way to live my life. (Of course, mom and sister were horrified by this......) 25 years later I have a wonderful hubby who shows me the utmost respect and (as my friends tell me) was a "great catch". (LOL)

I feel like I've done a good job as a mother because my 14 year old daughter wants to get married "when I grow up" and wants to stay home to raise her "four children". Put that together with daughter knowing the importance of dating/marrying another Catholic, I'm not worried she'll end up like the perpetually unhappy and single sluts on "Sex in the City."

Somehow I ended up "having it all" (nice family, professional career)--but I think I got there primarily because I put hubby, daughter and family life FIRST, not the other way around.

By the way, there are a lot of "good men" left. But the good men are NOT interested in "Sex in the City" style sluts, and don't like to be with ball-busting single women who lead promiscuous, unhappy lives.

24 posted on 01/03/2003 8:41:49 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: fuente
Many of the spinsters-to-be go to the wrong places because they're accustomed to meeting the wrong type of guys. Hint: stay away from non-family oriented places and gatherings!

I met my wife at a church social.

I know many married couples who met at church young adult gatherings.

I discern a pattern here...

25 posted on 01/03/2003 8:46:11 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: TroutStalker
Big topic. I might add a couple of points without writing a book about it - first, that dating venues have been the target of a systematic attack by politically-motivated feminist terrorism, and second, that there are several tendencies in men that work against late-life embarkation on a new personal relationship.

Point the first - campuses have become hotbeds of political correctness which feminist zealots have essentially bullied out of the relationship business - one extreme example is the insistence on a formal, signed contract prior to dating and a grotesque step-by-step permissions system that resembles nothing so much as the grade-school "first base, second base" continuum. Many feminists feel that this is a measure of protection against "date-rape" and other newly-minted social constructs; in fact, it militates against normal heterosexual dating practices and they know that full well. That is not a side benefit, it is the main agenda.

So where does the mating game move to? It wasn't always on campus, after all, it used to be centered around church and workplace. It is no accident that progressive social engineers have targeted these, for reasons in addition to the re-ordering of societal sexual roles, but the rules have definitely changed here as well. Bars? If we are truly down to finding life partners in establishments dedicated to evanescent pleasure-seeking, then we shouldn't be surprised if the relationships turn out to be evanescent as well. As my Dad once put it, the type of women you meet in a bar are the type of women who are in bars. Same goes for the men.

There is obviously a problem here.

Point the second - just about the time many women realize that being a man isn't all it's cracked up to be, the men of their generation have found that being in a relationship isn't all it's cracked up to be, either through the failure of relationships via divorce or through having refused to play the game so long that the game is simply no longer as compelling as it used to be. This does not augur well for a woman who may not be as physically attractive as she used to be.

The upshot here that feminists discover in their drive to attain the advantages of masculinity is that the traditionally masculine role of seeker after relationships is not always the advantage that it appears, and becomes less so as time goes on - for both sexes.

I would question the premise of the title - there are plenty of "good" men available; it's just that not all of the women bitching about it are "good" women.

26 posted on 01/03/2003 8:46:35 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Poohbah
Bookstores are another place to find interesting people. Just pay attention to what they are browsing!
27 posted on 01/03/2003 8:49:20 AM PST by fuente
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To: TroutStalker
Wow, this thread is an interesting cultural window onto something. So many hostile comments about women.

Though it sounds like the writer of that book was on target.

There are certain truisms based on biology. Men look for a woman who is fertile--thus probably your 25-35. After 35 we know women's fertility starts to decline a bit.

Women look for a man who can provide security--thus is successful and has money. Otherwise her offspring may be at risk.

So--men look for pretty young women and women look for powerful rich men. The age of the man doesn't matter as much as his ability to provide security; the more security, the less he has to have of other "good" qualities.

The changes in society have caused a lot of disruption and things haven't settled into a "better" pattern. Women are expected to work in two career marriages, so....if they don't build a career in their 20's and early 30's-----then what? It's a more demanding world financially these days. On the other hand, women's relative freedom, financial security and mobility, are threatening to men. Now they often compete for the same jobs. As a result men are feeling more hostile and insecure. On the other hand, as that writer points out, the women are more interesting and more of them are available. How many men have I met who think it's fine to go dutch on the first date, or soon after. I don't know a woman, no matter how successful, who likes that.

Did you guys watch The Bachelor? I found the psychology of that interesting. He did choose the one who, relatively speaking, was independent, intelligent, and had her own career. She wasn't a rocket scientist by any means, but he preferred her to the blond bimbo who was just finishing college.

Just some thots.
28 posted on 01/03/2003 8:52:09 AM PST by equus
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To: RooRoobird14
Your post is right on the money.

However, most women (and men) don’t realize that successful marriages are usually those where the couple grows and achieves together, rather than before marriage. Once a man or woman has achieved a certain level in life, marriage is no longer looked upon from the perspective of what can be gained from it, but of what can be lost from it.

That is where I am, and many other men. We are no longer willing to make the compromises and sacrifices necessary for a successful marriage, and are left with those same "Sex in the City" types to choose from, of which we say "No thanks", and are called women-haters for our trouble.

Women need to understand and accept that if they don't get us when we are young, odds are, you won't get us at all, because after a lifetime of building a career and lifestyle, you are not going to find too many of us willing to take the risk of losing it all over a woman, when there are so many available for temporary amusement.

29 posted on 01/03/2003 8:52:37 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: TroutStalker
>>What Ms. Whitehead calls the "signature union" of this system is cohabitation. Here, as in so many apparently gender-neutral arrangements, one party (in this case, the woman) is at a severe, almost punitive, disadvantage.<<

What the author fails to acknowledge is that the same punitive disadvantage is enjoyed by the male in the system of MARRIAGE as it currently exists in our culture. As a YOUNG MAN (under 40), only a fool would marry in our current legal/cultural environment. And it crosses all religious lines.

30 posted on 01/03/2003 8:54:48 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: cynaman
You are precicely correct, re: post 18.
31 posted on 01/03/2003 8:57:05 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: TroutStalker
On TV, they're the saucy females of "Sex and the City" and "Will & Grace."

Snotty, big-mouthed, self-important, slutty, bitches....THAT'S why they're still single.  My upstairs neighbor is one of these.

32 posted on 01/03/2003 8:58:23 AM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Billthedrill
Fantastic post, dude.
33 posted on 01/03/2003 9:00:35 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: Poohbah
>A good pattern too.
> I note where the author continues her analogy between houses and husbands and says: "Houses with "potential" mean years of wearisome renovation."
>My only reaction is that I'm very glad the current Mrs. BenLurkin was willing to spend years in her wearisome renovation project on myself.
34 posted on 01/03/2003 9:03:29 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: BuddhaBoy
I hear you, Buddahboy, and I understand.

There are some good women left, also. But the good women (like the good men) also happen to be the "boring" types who don't hang out in bars, go to church regularly , and probably don't look like centerfolds. I hope the "good men" left will eventually find some of these good women. The future of our country depends on this(not joking, either).

35 posted on 01/03/2003 9:04:53 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: TroutStalker
Their abundance is a boon to men in search of delicious company

Uh, yah, riiiiight. Sometimes independence is just a facade for undependable.

36 posted on 01/03/2003 9:10:30 AM PST by Dead Dog
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To: fuente
find interesting people

I think you have the key to the castle here.

To meet the kind of person you want you should be actively doing what you want to be doing with people you want to be doing it with. Then invariably some of the people you meet will be of the opposite sex, and then the rest is up to you!

The other little secret: when you are doing what you love to do you are smiling and a joy to be around. Then others will be attracted to you. In the end a positive attitude will take you further than any physical attribute.

(I am one of those guys fortunate enough to get comments like: "How did _you_ ever get _her_? :-) )
37 posted on 01/03/2003 9:11:33 AM PST by cgbg
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To: Dead Dog
>>Sometimes independence is just a facade for undependable.<<

Sometimes...
38 posted on 01/03/2003 9:11:43 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Snotty, big-mouthed, self-important, slutty, bitches....THAT'S why they're still single. My upstairs neighbor is one of these.

Hubby is a sales manager at IBM and has to work with a number of females who fit the above description perfectly. These women are quite "accomplished" (make good money) by the FemiNazi standard of success--and nearly every single one of them is in a perpetual state of defensive, paranoid, PMS. They're also either divorced single moms or single mothers of b*st*rd children---and are mad at the world (and men in particular) because they're "stuck" raising their kids alone.

39 posted on 01/03/2003 9:12:46 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: Psycho_Bunny
Exactly!

If those hags represent women, then it isn't a lack of good men, it's that women have turned into beasts!

Personally, I've bought over seventy houses but am still with the same woman after 25 years.

All that counts in a house is location. You can change everything else with a little effort. When it comes to women, choose wisely.
40 posted on 01/03/2003 9:15:10 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: BenLurkin
My wife is fond of telling her single friends that all men are, to some degree, fixer-uppers.

Shortly after we were married, I was working night shift and my wife worked days. As a result, I did the grocery shopping. One day, I went during lunch hour, and worked my way diligently through the shopping list, purchasing real food that needed to be cooked and not TV dinners.

About halfway through the store, I had an odd sensation of being watched.

I turned around, and five professional women were staring a hole through me. I waved with my left hand, and their faces fell instantly when they saw the wedding ring.

They thought that they had someone who was pre-domesticated.

41 posted on 01/03/2003 9:17:57 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: RooRoobird14
Last year, I ran into a group of women from a seminar on finding a mate. I was at a HOME DEPOT in California to buy an air conditioner.

They were told to seek out men with home improvement supplies in their carts who were not wearing a wedding ring.

It was at that time, I realized that men now have the upper hand. It was a pathetic scene. I believe that if I had played along, I could have gotten that air conditioner paid for, for the price of a date.

42 posted on 01/03/2003 9:19:43 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: TroutStalker
Instead of college, marriage, children and, perhaps, career, the new single woman roars out of academia with no desire for romantic entanglement or expectation of it. She establishes herself in a career, takes multiple sexual partners, perhaps moves in with a boyfriend or two, and then -- well, we all know what happens. As 30 hovers into view, she begins to desire a warm home life along with the fruits of her education and work. But her upbringing, as Ms. Whitehead explains, has not prepared her for this eventuality.

I would also say there is another reality here that the author is onto, but just quite can't admit. Lots of time these women have accumulated extreme emotional baggage from some past sour relationships and maybe this women has also contracted an STD. Maybe she's had an abortion or two, just to add more psychological instability. (BTW, I can name a dozen of these women off the top of my head and can name some with all three things I've listed, Hooray for the Sexual Revolution! /sarcasm). So now she's going to magically settle down like they do in Hollywood's "Sex and the City"? PUH-LEEZE!

Sorry but many possible suitors out there will find them unsuitable and will prefer that young, supple, 25 year old without all that baggage? Its sad, but thats the way that most men think - who wants an old hag who is all used up? Those are the harsh realities.

43 posted on 01/03/2003 9:20:18 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: BuddhaBoy
LOL, BuddhaBoy!!! As hubby and I say to each other, "It's a jungle out there!!"
44 posted on 01/03/2003 9:22:58 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: Poohbah
Stay away from Home Depot, dude.
45 posted on 01/03/2003 9:28:46 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
a HOME DEPOT in California to buy an air conditioner. They were told to seek out men with home improvement supplies in their carts who were not wearing a wedding ring.

That is hilarious!

(Hint to wingle women out there. Home Depot is a low-end home improvement store. Your better catches will be at smaller hardware stores in good parts of town. You can tell which ones they are because they sell premium products like Benjamin Moore paint or Cabot's deck stain.) ;-)
46 posted on 01/03/2003 9:28:59 AM PST by cgbg
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To: KC_Conspirator
I think I'll print this thread off and mail it to some young women I know......might help them as they enter the "marriage years"....one can only hope. The "slut syndrome" should be studied....but, then, the Feminists would be outted.
47 posted on 01/03/2003 9:31:20 AM PST by goodnesswins
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To: BuddhaBoy
Stay away from Home Depot, dude.

I've had that experience. I've even had a woman come up and start hitting on me the minute my wife went to the ladies' room.

48 posted on 01/03/2003 9:32:55 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: KC_Conspirator
Single women in their mid30's and up have got all of the associated trauma and anger of your average Vietnam veteran.

They are the walking wounded. One only need remind them of a past negative event, to recieve a full-on frontal assault in response. I believe that there should be a law against single women owning guns or knives sharper than butter knives after a certain age, because they are dangerous. They can hire someone to cut their meat.

I am reminded of the movie Fatal Attraction where Glenn Close is standing in the bathtub with the knife, whenever I see one of those 'sophisticated women' packing their briefcases and sensible shoes through downtown Seattle.

49 posted on 01/03/2003 9:37:10 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: RooRoobird14
Good for you, and God Bless you. My wonderful wife is a "Southern Belle" whose GPA was better than mine. She is an electrical engineer. She "has it all" too, but she and I BOTH had a good understanding of each other before we got hitched.

After 6 months, I asked her to marry me. We promptly had a discussion about religion, parenting styles, and important decisions to be made down the line. To my delight, she gave ME the tie-breaker vote on tough calls. But I've NEVER had to use it, because we talk about stuff, and I don't always have to have my own way. Lots of men (including me) are just stubborn enough that if a woman insists she be in charge, we won't let her. If she doesn't insist, we don't care so much.

Women who don't need men don't understand that when men see that attitude, we walk away, thinking, "Ok. So you don't need me. I'll find someone who does. Have a nice life."
50 posted on 01/03/2003 9:39:48 AM PST by HeadOn
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