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Posted on 01/03/2003 9:20:40 PM PST by ItsBacon
Edited on 01/03/2003 9:27:16 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
It was a good championship game overall, I must admit, and the Buckeyes are to be congratulated. I don't personally like any Florida teams, especially the "Noles". Bobby Bowden is a thug protector. He got Warwick Dunn out of a robbery charge hearing two days before the national championship game a few years ago. He should have NOT been allowed to play in that game. Influence and money talks and B.S. walks, however.
That seemed to be the case as I viewed it, too. Earlier in the game some of these were not called, this time it was. I'm not an expert on collegiate rules, but it seems to me that if the defender impedes the receiver's route to the ball, it constitutes interference. Its a judgement call, I guess, and it went the Buckeyes' way and against the 'Canes. That happens, and you have to deal with it. Its hard to write off an entire game on the basis of one play and one call when there were so many others.
The one Miami coach stated he told his players to "get in the faces" of the receivers. IMO, giving the benefit of doubt, this doesn't mean he was telling them outright to foul, but to play aggressive defense. Well, when you play aggressive defense on passing downs, you always run the risk of being called for a penalty. The refs aren't stupid, they're watching more closely on those kinds of downs then they might otherwise. In this case, Miami got bit. Again, it happens.
OSU would have handily beaten Southern Cal. I'm very disapponted at the way Palmer and his team catered to O.J. While Plamer surely is a very talented football player, he is lacking in ethics. And so is the coach Pete Carroll.
Maurice Clarette likewise showed at best a lack of maturity. His comments surely were distracting. The funeral was of a drug dealer. It's this kind of "friends" anyone should stay away from.
I grew up watching the ball-handling magician Rex Kern against USC in Rose Bowl matchups (last national title for you), and always liked the Buckeyes:
--I always loved watching the tuba guy "dot the i"
--Laughed my ass off many years back when the camera was panning the student section at a OSU-Michigan game on the banner "F*CK MICHIGAN"
--Envied them for the buckeye stickers awarded for great plays--wished we had something like that at Nebraska
--I remember Oklahoma (the Husker's nemesis at the time!) kicking that clutch FG that Keith Jackson referred to, beating you guys in Columbus in 1977 (kicker was Uwe von Schauman, an All-American who played several years in the pros)
--I remember Woody whacking that Clemson player
ESPN Classic just had a great tribute to Woody and the program a few nights ago, filmed in 1977 (my senior season at Nebraska), and man it was like being there.
OSU has a storied, proud program, and this year they just never quit--no mega-stars like the Canes. I'll take that over the smartass superstar Canes anytime. Besides, anytime I can see Warren Fat-ass Sapp get beat, it makes me happy--Huskers finally beat the Sapp-led Canes in 1995 for our first since 1971, so I know how it is to wait a long time. I'll always remember Sapp taunting Tom Osborne to his face in the 2nd quarter of that game, and watching him get plastered ino the Orange Bowl turf for the rest of the game!!! I'll always feel like I got something on them.
I played against and beat the Canes in 1976 before they were the modern "Canes", but they did have some great players--just as trash-mouthed then as they are now.
I'm, also, not trying to put an 'asterisk' on OHU's National Championship. They most definately deserved to win that game.
Furthermore, from the get go on this thread, I made the statement that you must simply accept that you have to take the good calls with the bad calls and the 'no' calls in Football. That's simply the way it is.
But I tend to be a stickler on the details.
So, don't interpret my continued insistance that this was a bad call as a desire to claim OSU is an illegitimate National Champion. They are not.
As an example, you will remember in the Michigan/OSU game a couple of months ago, that M's touchdown was waved off due to offensive pass interference. The replay clearly showed Gamble, I think it was, tripped on his own. There was NO pass interference. It was a bad call. It could have certainly cost Michigan the game in which case this conversation would never have happened. Nonetheless, OSU truly did win that game.
"As I argued earlier, holding is part-n-parcel of pass interference."
Yes, a receiver can be held and it would be Pass Interference. This would only be the call if the ball was in the air while the pass receiver was being "held".
Now, I'd love to see the play again, but I'm finding very few people are still showing the play. I'm certainly open to seeing if the OSU receiver was held while the ball was in the air. If so, case closed -maybe (see next post).
However, the actual penalty of "Defensive Holding" of the receiver is a different call with different standards. If the defensive player "holds" the receiver before the ball is thrown, then it is NOT "pass interference", but "defensive holding". Not that there would have been any effective difference if this were the penalty, but... For some reason, many on this thread have simply cismissed "the commentators" "opinion" that there was no Pass Interference.Hall of Fame Quarterback Dan Fout's comments are certainly something to take into consideration.
He knows of what he speaks. And he is correct about one thing. There was NO CONTACT at the moment the receiver was about to catch the ball. Yes, it initially "looked" like the Miami defender was "all over him", but the replay clearly showed he didn't touch him at this point.
Again, I'm open to looking at the replay to see if the defender had made interfering contact while the ball was in the air (that is the key). I know there was NO CONTACT as the ball was in it the latter part of its journey to the receiver, but was there contact at the time the QB released the ball and shortly thereafter? I'd have to see the replay.
"And it occured well after the 5 yd buffer..."
I learned something from a couple of my friends who are former NCAA Div 1 players.
In College football, there is no 5 yard buffer zone. You can jam the guy all you want if the ball is not in the air. Even if you're 50 yards down field and the QB hasn't thrown the ball, you can stuff him. When the ball is in the air, you can't 'stuff' him anymore.
You cannot, however, "hold" him during this time. Again, I'd be open to looking at the replay to see if there was "holding" before the ball was in the air.
But, that was NOT the penalty that was called. That would be a "defensive holding" penalty.
Jean
So, then, if the Offensive Receiver had his "hands" "all over" the defensive player, it then becomes a question of OFFENSIVE pass interference.
We all know that this kind of contact is common in games. You can put your hand "on" the defender or receiver, but you cannot "interfere".
So, is the Offesive Receiver just as guilty (as you seem to be admitting) of "interference"?
If your criteria to determine "pass interference" is that the defender had HIS hands "all over" the offensive receiver and IF, as you admit, the offensive receiver ALSO had HIS hands "all over" the defender (which would be just as illegal), couldn't this have also been OFFENSIVE "pass interference"?
Furthermore, I'd be interested to look at the rest of the game to see if this same type of contact was TOLERATED during the game. We both know that this kind of contact frequently is tolerated.
Remember, also, the end of the first half in the M v Florida game when Loyd Carr was talking with the Official regarding what Carr thought was "Interference" on the last Hail Mary play. What did the official tell Carr ON CAMERA -that the offensive player would have to get "Outright MUGGED" in order for there to be that call at the end of the half or at the end of the game.
If we use the standards that the Officials from the M v Florida game used, there simply was NO mugging.
Jean
No shi-ite sherlock. It's apparent from the completely overdone 2 posts, each of more than 500 words (guess-timate, in case you want to be a stickler again). :op
I could care less at this point, especially since I despise OSU as much as a Georgia fan despises an Alabama fan. Big-10 or not.
Apparently I was wrong on the 5-yd buffer, and I accept my mistake. However, the Miami player was all over the OSU player from scrimmage until just before the ball arrived, as was apparent to anyone willing to watch the replays immediately following, and not only the ESPN 2-second clips during Sportscenter. I stand by my assertion.
Good day...
I didn't know this either until last night.
"However, the Miami player was all over the OSU player from scrimmage until just before the ball arrived, as was apparent to anyone willing to watch the replays immediately following, and not only the ESPN 2-second clips during Sportscenter. I stand by my assertion."
Tonight, on my local radio sports talk show, the host was talking with current Cowboy Wide Receiver and former Buckeye Ken-yon Rambo. Rambo admitted it was a bad call -and it was.
Jean
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