Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Illegal Immigration: A novel approach to the greatest security threat we have
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798815/posts ^ | 1/4/03 | judicial meanz

Posted on 01/04/2003 12:43:36 AM PST by judicial meanz

A while back, I posted a thread on State Defense Forces and their role in Homeland Security. This is part two of the series.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798815/posts

A lot of media attention has been devoted to the problem of Illegal immigration along our Northern and Southern Borders. Calls for Federal Troops to be stationed there, the National Guard, and even hiring more Border Patrol Agents.

The Congress and the President seem to ignore the problem while crime escalates in the border regions and our citizens are threatened with serious crimes, as well as the obvious national security concerns.

Private militias have formed to protect citizens, and the problem is still ignored.

My question is: Why is this just a federal only problem? The states have the same authority as the Federal Government to station troops on the borders to stem the flow of illegal aliens, and are neglecting this role just as badly as the Feds are. The only problem is the State Governors arent facing the same heat because people dont know the military laws of their state. ( who could blame them)

Every state has the ability to use its State Militia to patrol the border and interdict illegal aliens. In some cases, they have even more authority.

State Militias are authorized under 32USC 109 of the United States Code.They are usually called "State Defense Forces" because federal statutes refer to them as such. Every state has statutes (under the shared responsibility clause of the Constitution governing military defense) to allow it to use the state militia at the discretion of the governor to do the following:

1) Invasion, insurrection, or threats of either 2) when any combination of person(s) become so powerful as to obstruct the execution of laws 3) WHEN THE GOVERNOR DETERMINES A STATE AGENCY OR AGENCIES HAVING LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNCTIONS ARE IN NEED OF HELP IN PERFORMING THESE FUNCTIONS 4) Disasters 5) Emergencies of lesser magnitude ( as determined by the Governor-this is a catch all) 6) counter-drug duties

As anyone can see, a State Governor would have every justification in the world to call out the State Militia ( State Defense Forces) to secure our borders.

About 26 states have State Defense Forces. SO far, none have state troops detailed to curb illegal immigration or secure our borders from outside threats. They could keep Federal troops free from this duty so they could be used overseas in the impending war.

Why are we letting the states off the hook here? Because no one knows about these laws, or no one cares to know about them.

I suggest we start hounding our state governors and representatives to get on the ball as well as the Feds on this issue.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Announcements; Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Free Republic; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-83 next last
It only took about 4 hours to do this legal research. I made my calls today to get it looked at with my state representative. Good luck FReepers!
1 posted on 01/04/2003 12:43:36 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Forgot to mention in the article-

State Defense Forces are also exempt from Posse Comitatus. They could do full law enforcement duties. Thats good to know.

Federal Troops on Title 10 missions are subject to the Posse Comitatus. They couldnt do it.

2 posted on 01/04/2003 12:46:23 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
IMMIGRATION ISSUES
American Patrol.com
The Stein Report
Center for Immigration Studies
Numbers USA
California Coalition for Immigration Reform
Colorado Alliance for Immigration Reform
CensusScope.org
"Immigrants, Not Americans, Must Adapt"

3 posted on 01/04/2003 1:15:03 AM PST by Cindy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: madfly
fyi
4 posted on 01/04/2003 4:48:31 AM PST by Free the USA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
bump-right on
5 posted on 01/04/2003 5:10:10 AM PST by 1234
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz; Sabertooth; Tancredo Fan; madfly; Reaganwuzthebest; WRhine; FITZ; Barnacle
Here's a thread on this very topic from all the way back in 9/12/1999.

The problem was never that everyone believed that the governors of the border states couldn't take steps to secure their own borders with Mexico, it's that those same governors refused to.

Some believed that the governors from the border states were hesitant to do this, because it would lead to a confrontation with the federal government, or they were afraid of being called racists. Yada, yada, yada.

We all know that's not true, beyond a shadow of a doubt, now.

A former, Republican, border state governor is the sitting President of The United States. The Congress is in the control of the Republicans and still not a damn thing is being done to secure our borders.

If anything, our border security is being deliberately undermined further.

Posse Comitatus and The Law

The governors of the border states are being elected by the same tidal wave of illegal immigrants that we'd be asking them to stop. The same governors that just returned from a meeting with Mexican state governors, where they discussed ways to open our borders further, are the ones we'd be petitioning to stop this madness. Fat chance of that, anymore.

The governors of the border states are hopelessly, pro-open borders, pro-illegal immigration, one (3rd) worlder, Liberal, Democrats or RINOs. That's why the newly legal and fraudulently voting illegal aliens elected them.

Look who was just elected governor of Arizona. Name one border state governor that won't resist the efforts of their concerned citizens to have their National Guard sent to the borders.

IMHO, the only reason the governors of the border states would voluntarily send their respective National Guard troops to the borders for would be to arrest or kill the courageous members of the citizens patrols and ranchers that have come together to resist the hoards of illegal immigrants that are pouring over our borders, daily.

Don't get me wrong. Keep the heat on every elected representative you can. But don't make the mistake in believing that it hasn't been done up until this point.

IMO though, the pressure to secure our borders will have to come from the citizens of the states that don't want to have the same things happen to their states that have happened to the border states.

As I said on another thread, 'The United States has gone from being the land of opportunity to being the land of illegal alien opportunists.'

And a lot of the pandering politicians from both parties are complicit.

Tom Tancredo in 2004!

I hope none of you mind my 'Pinging' you to this thread. I don't do too much 'Pinging' anymore, because Madfly, Tancredo Fan and Sabertooth 'Ping' almost the identical list of Freepers to the very same threads. Anyway, LMK.

6 posted on 01/04/2003 7:10:16 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Nice.

As Paula Harvey said (paraphrasing, here), "This great nation was once a melting pot. Today, it has become a pressure cooker."
7 posted on 01/04/2003 7:14:13 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Free the USA; B4Ranch; Tancredo Fan; Marine Inspector; Ajnin; agitator; Tancred; Spiff; backhoe; ...
Yes, but, but, when it comes to any Border Issue, our governor's are united with the border governors from Mexico and belong the Border Governors' Conference, the Western Governors' Association and many bi-national groups.

I doubt we will see any independent action from any of our State Border Governors. I figure this is why Tom Tancredo had to fly down to southern Arizona to take the issue of border incursions to Washington. And this all stinks.

Does anyone know any more about these guvhah gangs? I have to agree with B4Ranch's idea of the Sheriff's power in the counties.

http://unix.utb.edu/~media/frames/equip/lecture.html

The University of Texas at Brownsville was host for the XVI Border Governors' Conference in June 1998. The SETB Lecture Hall was the main site for this meeting between the governors from both sides of the Mexican and US border.
(recognize anyone?)

The Border Governors and the Western Governors' Association don't include "immigration" in the following. There is some mention of it further down in the document, but it is obvious that this is not one of their priorities, when influencing Government policy. There is a lot of discussion and planning for the environmental conditions along the border, which reeks of Agenda 21 to me. Arizona has a lot of "21" programs, as I'm sure do all the Western States, as well as the nation.

http://www.westgov.org/wga/policy/02/mexgovs_15.pdf

Policy Resolution 02-15
WGA Relations with Mexico and the Border Governors' Conference
Annual Meeting
June 25, 2002
Phoenix, Arizona
SPONSORS: Governors Hull, Davis and Perry

A. BACKGROUND
1. Mexico has long shared a preeminent trade, diplomatic and cultural relationship with the United States. This relationship was further enhanced with the enactment of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) which became effective on January 1, 1994. NAFTA formally linked the economies and trade relationships of the United States, Mexico, and Canada.

2. The tragic events of September 11, 2001 have brought a new focus to the international boundaries of the U.S. and to the need to ensure that security issues are of paramount concern.

3. Western states, and in particular the United States-Mexico border states of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and California, are substantial participants in the Mexican market and have supported the full implementation of NAFTA throughout North America. Western states also have been supportive of U.S.- Mexican federal relations across the range of topics addressed by these two great nations.

• 4. There has been a substantial increase in passenger and commercial vehicle traffic at border crossings between the U.S. and Mexico accompanying the implementation of the NAFTA. The increase in vehicle traffic has often resulted in significant delays in traversing the border. These delays have impacts on both environmental quality and the cost of doing business. •

5. Along with the Western Governors’ Association (WGA), one of the groups that has worked to expand and strengthen bilateral relationships between U.S. and Mexican border states is the U.S.-Mexico Border Governors Conference (BGC). The BGC includes the four U.S. and six Mexican border Governors whose states comprise the nearly 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexico border. The BGC has held binational conferences since 1980 to address issues of trade, investment, economic development, public health, the environment, tourism, transportation, and agriculture. The border Governors have conveyed their positions through joint declarations and policy initiatives.

6. During the past eight years, the WGA has worked specifically to build binational relationships in the border region between states through its Border Environment Dialogue Program, including its series of Ten State Retreats hosted in conjunction with different U.S. and Mexican border states on an annual basis, and its coordination support of the Environment session of the BGC. The focus of this program has been on strategic alliances and partnering needed to improve environmental and health conditions in the border region. Ultimately, WGA in conjunction with the BGC, aims to establish a permanent coordination mechanism between the 10 states on environmental matters.

C. GOVERNORS' MANAGEMENT DIRECTIVE
1. WGA shall convey this resolution to the Mexican border Governors, President Fox, President Bush, the following Mexican officials: Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Treasury, Secretary of Foreign Affiars, Secretary of Environmental and Natural Resources, Secretary of Transportation and Communications, and the National Ecological Institute, and the following U.S. administration officials:

Secretary of State, Secretary of Commerce, Secretary of Treasury, Secretary of Transportation, and the EPA Administrator.
WGA will also convey this resolution to Majority and Minority leadership of the Senate and House of Representatives.

This resolution was originally adopted in 1999 as WGA policy resolution 99-028. (as directed by Staff Council the draft incorporates resolution 99-007)

Approval of a WGA resolution requires an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the Board of the Directors present at the meeting. Dissenting votes, if any, are indicated in the resolution.

The Board of Directors is comprised of the governors of
Alaska, American Samoa, Arizona, California, Colorado, Guam, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Northern Mariana Islands, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.

All policy resolutions are posted on the WGA Web site (www.westgov.org) or you may request a copy by writing or calling:

Western Governors’ Association
1515 Cleveland Place, Suite 200
Denver, CO 80202-5114
Ph: (303) 623-9378
Fax: (303) 534-7309
F:\02RESOS\02 Annual Mtg\US_Mexico Border Relations.wpd

Full text .pdf at this link:

http://www.westgov.org/wga/policy/02/mexgovs_15.pdf

8 posted on 01/04/2003 7:16:21 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Bump
9 posted on 01/04/2003 7:17:44 AM PST by Fiddlstix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
Good post, 4F. We are on the same page, unforuntately.

oops, sorry for the double pings. I spent a lot of time on my post.

madfly
10 posted on 01/04/2003 7:19:08 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom

Tom Tancredo
American Statesman


11 posted on 01/04/2003 7:22:20 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Cindy
bump
12 posted on 01/04/2003 7:37:53 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
"Tom Tancredo in 2004!"

Tancredo has been getting a good deal of air time lately:
Is there any kind of 'draft Tancredo', or 'consider Tancredo', or 'encourage him to run' movement that might cause the Pub's and our president to pay attention?

13 posted on 01/04/2003 7:38:53 AM PST by norton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: norton; Tancredo Fan; Tom_Tancredo_Fan
I'm not aware of any organized movement underway to draft Tom Tancredo for a run for President, but I am aware that a lot of people have sent their personal requests to that effect along with their campaign contributions.

Maybe Tancredo Fan or Tom_Tancredo_Fan know of any organized efforts to draft Tom Tancredo.

14 posted on 01/04/2003 8:07:31 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
bump
15 posted on 01/04/2003 8:15:19 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
And the FEDS should fund these efforts. The VARIOUS STATES must be allocated part of the INS and/or Homeland Security budget to do this.
16 posted on 01/04/2003 8:16:54 AM PST by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: madfly
"Good post, 4F. We are on the same page, unfortunately."

Thanks for the compliment, Madfly. That was a nice post of yours, as well.

It's an honor and a pleasure to share a page with you. ;)

What in the name of 'Founding Fathers' and 'The Alamo' are those lunatics doing with image of the American Flag and the Mexican Flag all snaked together like that?

17 posted on 01/04/2003 8:19:01 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom; All
Have you or anyone listened to Rush Limbaugh lately? I don't listen to him much, but it's going around he's now supporting the idea of amnesty for all illegals using the lame "George Bush is a great war president" excuse to justify it.

Looks to me if it is true the party is pressuring him into this sellout position. He has been a staunch opponent of amnesties and illegal immigration as far as I knew, so I'm finding this sudden 180 kind of odd.

18 posted on 01/04/2003 8:22:58 AM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Why then are we not in our state Capitols raising Cain?
19 posted on 01/04/2003 8:30:23 AM PST by MissAmericanPie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
The Congress is in the control of the Republicans and still not a damn thing is being done to secure our borders.

Among other needful changes!

Sorry, surprise, surprise!

20 posted on 01/04/2003 8:39:53 AM PST by VOYAGER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
They've been doing it for 20 years!

HTML

http://www.azmc.org/downloads/Govs_Remarks_XX_BGC_Plenary.doc

Governor's Remarks (Jane Dee Hull - Arizona)

XX Border Governors Conference

Closing Ceremony 

Phoenix, Arizona

June 22, 2002 

Even as the Border Governors gathered for the first time 20 years ago, they sensed the change on the horizon, the ever-accelerating movement toward a more globalized and interdependent world.

They realized that the path to prospering in this new world lies not along the path of individualism and divisiveness, but on the path of regional cooperation.

They had the vision to create the framework to make that regional cooperation possible.

That framework ? and the deep bonds of friendship and partnership that we have developed within it ? has provided the impetus for us to make this vision of regional cooperation a reality.

From the Declaration of Friendship the Governors signed in 1980 to the Joint Declaration that we signed today, our progress is plain to see.

We have established working, cooperative efforts that the Governors might never have imagined 20 years ago.

We are promoting coordinated cross-border cooperation among our state and federal law enforcement agencies, as well joint planning for our bridges and borders.

We have recognized that, just as rivers and pollution move freely across borders, so must we look beyond the border when planning on how to use and conserve our valuable natural resources.

We have joint inspection efforts to protect and expand our vast exchange of agricultural goods.

Our economic development and tourism agencies work in concert to encourage companies to locate in the border region and tourists to enjoy its wonders.

Together, we are making the residents of the border region healthier and better educated.

And we are making all of these efforts succeed through increased partnership with our federal governments. Just as Ambassadors Davidow and Bremer participate here today, last October representatives of the Border Governors participated for the first time in a meeting of the U.S.-Mexico Binational Commission.

Our federal governments, and we, as states, realize that the cooperation we have cultivated is critical to achieving our goal of making the border region safe and prosperous.

Pause ?

In sum, we have come a long way in these past 20 years toward establishing an integrated border region, a region in which community is the guiding principle.

Having come this distance, we must now ask ourselves the following: What will we accomplish in the next 20 years to come?

While we are proud of the border region, it would be disingenuous to say we don?t have problems.

This has been a difficult year, one in which issues we had not anticipated have come to the surface, and issues we thought resolved have continued to vex us.

We feel a sense of uncertainty with regard to some of our greatest concerns: the changing face of our border crossings after September 11, immigration, water and many other issues.

I would like for us all to contemplate where we might be with these issues in another 20 years. But we need to think beyond present circumstances, and beyond our borders.

Borders have a way of blocking our vision not just physically, but mentally.

The beloved American poet Robert Frost wrote ironically that, "Fences make good neighbors."

That seems true at times, especially times of international turmoil.

But, as Frost writes on, "There is something that does not love a wall."

Pause ?

Opening my mind and thinking ahead, I envision a region without walls.

I envision a region that is safe, friendly and efficient for all people with legitimate personal and professional business.

A region where crossing the border will be as simple as e-mailing your digitally encoded signature off your Palm Pilot to a binational database, and paying. . . .(more at .doc)


21 posted on 01/04/2003 9:06:39 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ME4W
ping
22 posted on 01/04/2003 9:08:33 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: VOYAGER
"Among other needful changes!"

"Sorry, surprise, surprise."

My father and uncle were in the service at the same time you were. My uncle was in the Pacific theatre, while my father was in the European theatre. My uncle won't even say the word Kawasaki to this day, let alone ride one.

"Viva Colorado!"

What's your opinion of Tom Tancredo, if I might ask?

23 posted on 01/04/2003 9:11:06 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Can a sheriff ask to see a Selective Service Registration Card?

WHY aren't they checking for those who haven't registerd for Selective Service??? Or is this another law that has been relegated to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" file???

Who Must Register With The Selective Service?
All male U.S. citizens must register with the Selective Service within 30 days of their 18th birthday.

Male lawful permanent residents (green card holders), refugees, parolees, and asylees must register within 30 days of their 18th birthday or within 30 days of their arrival in the U.S. if age 18 through 25.

Undocumented aliens are required to register.

Why Must I Register With The Selective Service?
It is the law. Willful failure to comply with registration requirements is a felony which may be punishable by imprisonment for up to five years and a fine of up to $250,000.

Failure to register may be cause for denial of permanent residency (green card) and citizenship.

Many state and federal programs, including student financial aid, job training, and government employment, require proof of registration.

24 posted on 01/04/2003 9:31:03 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: madfly
"...the path of individualism and devisiveness..."

"Individualism" and patriotism, national sovereignty and citizenship right along with it are "devisiveness" and should all just be scourged from the planet, I suppose.

Yipes, is this 'Orwellian' or what?

"But, as Frost writes on, "There is something that does not love a wall.""

Let's see, if we can list some of the things that do not love walls to protect the borders of the United States.

1) Evil doers.

2) One (3rd) Worlder, globalists.

3) Drug smugglers.

4) Ilegal aliens.

5) Terrorists.

6) The piss-ant, Mexican military.

7) Agents of other foreign governments.

8) Spineless, gutless, pandering politicians.

Anyone else want to contribute?

25 posted on 01/04/2003 9:31:34 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
I think, IMHO, that they need illegal immigration to help pay for all those liberally inspired entitlements. Its no secret European governments need the massive influx of immigration they have to pay for socialist inspired government benefits.

If thats the case, they are hiding a budget problem.
26 posted on 01/04/2003 9:34:42 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: madfly
BTTT!

LEO's should ask for proof of Selective Service registration.

Is N.O.W. on record as demanding that all women be required to register with the Selective Service Administration?

27 posted on 01/04/2003 9:38:04 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Illegal immigrants vote Democratic because the Democrats promise more free money. If the Republicans get into a bidding war with the Dems over illegal immigrants, they will lose. Both the illegals and their own base.
28 posted on 01/04/2003 9:38:21 AM PST by Republic of Texas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
The problem was never that everyone believed that the governors of the border states couldn't take steps to secure their own borders with Mexico, it's that those same governors refused to.

They don't care what the people in these states want, they do refuse to because they've been making deals for themselves. There's money involved so the people don't matter.

29 posted on 01/04/2003 9:40:48 AM PST by FITZ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: 4Freedom
Yes, we read where LEO's do not ask for green cards nor involve themselves in any aspect of immigration , claiming that illegals would be at danger from thugs, because they would not call police in fear of deportation. But what about asking for proof of registration with Selective Service. My god, how many American boys and men died in VietNam after registering in the 60's. And you can bet if you got stopped by any LEO, you had better have that card. These men died for our freedoms, now foreigners are obviously not signing up for the draft and getting away with a felony that has nothing to do with immigration laws.
The tools are there to keep tabs on who is in this country, where is the Enforcement. We just lay out the red carpet of diversity to all and bow to the ACLU. I'm a little po'd today.
31 posted on 01/04/2003 9:46:06 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: madfly
Thats an interesting question. I wish I had the answer. I see a lot of goatee wearing "I didnt register for the imperial war machine draft" fools running around protesting today and they havent a clue.

I think, IMHO, most of them are attempting to hide a severe case of cowardice in the form of embracing a cause ( however stupid or ignorant it is) to cloak it. I often wonder if responsible authorities ever check to see if one is registered before they get federal jobs or student aid loans.
What they dont realize is all they have to do, if they wanted to serve honorably, is find a job in the military that they have no chance of being injured doing like veterinary tech or something, and off they go.
Of course I was too ignorant to follow that line of thinking, and put myself in jobs that require me to put my tail in harms way. (LOL)
Chalk up another one to the "I am going to have to find out more about that" file. Good point. I havent

regards
32 posted on 01/04/2003 9:47:07 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Scuttlebutt; MedProf; LadyX; Vigilant1; Lazamataz; hogwaller; rdavis84; SAMWolf; 4TheFlag; ...
Selective Service ping
33 posted on 01/04/2003 9:47:27 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Illegal immigrants pay for nothing.

Illegal immigrants are a net loss to the U.S. Taxpayers of $27 to $72 billion dollars annually depending who you ask and the various factors they use to make their calculations.

According to the C.I.S. an illegal immigrant will be a net average loss of $55,000 dollars over their lifetime and the Libertarian, CATO institute pegs it at around $89,000, I believe.

The government's not able to hide anything, really. The federal government's portion of the 'National Debt' is over $6 trillion dollars and add another $28 trillion for the rest of the total debt we're in as a Nation.

34 posted on 01/04/2003 9:48:22 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
Good point. I didnt have any facts to my statement, just a gut feeling. Thanks for educating me!
35 posted on 01/04/2003 9:50:29 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Thank you for pointing this out to all of us.

Our Governors and County officials, especially the Sheriff's, have the full power of the State at their disposal. That they have been unable and most unwilling to wield it effectively. If Sheriff's Departments showed the same zeal in preventing illegal crossing that they do in going after cash and property, the problem would be under control in a week.

Imagine if someone with the clout of Sheriff Arpaio were to get on this illegal immigration. The problem is these border counties and beyond are so "Mexified" already that true politicians are already courting the votes of the illegal immigrants, or at least their children.

What we need is the same system of border controls we have spent $300 Million building for Afghanistan. We simply have to know who's here and who wants to come. We cannot accomplish this because the Mexican Government, The Media, and the Democrat Party have succeeded in painting this normal process as "Racism."

In this effort they have been aided and abetted by the Republican Party.

36 posted on 01/04/2003 9:53:31 AM PST by Kenny Bunk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Click here to see Border Cam - LIVE
37 posted on 01/04/2003 9:54:07 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: madfly
"I'm a little po'd today."

Who could blame anybody that loves this country for being "po'd" about what our pandering politicians are doing?

38 posted on 01/04/2003 10:00:47 AM PST by 4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Kenny Bunk
I have been in government for a long time, in addition to my Guard service. At present I am an appointed public official.

You are right. Politicians in this day and age are so concerned about being reelected at any cost that our security comes way back on the burner somewhere between their toilet call and swooning the vote of the elderly.

Most ( if not all) of the elected officials I have met
(and its a lot) couldnt care less about aything that doesnt get them re-elected, Republican or Democrat. If it is good for the country, but has no constituency, they dont want to hear it.

Democrats seem to be the worst of the two, because they seem to operate on their own agenda for our nation, and they will go to any means to achieve and keep power, including illegal or immoral purposes. Once in power they pass Gawd-Awful stupid laws that are terrifying when you consider the scope of abuse that can be achieved with the legislation. IMHO, they want to disarm, globalize, and make anyting that offends them illegal to the point they can jail you for next to nothing for as long as they want because you offended them.

I work in the law field. In Virginia, we have a law that came about because a lawmaker went to a store and became offended because someone was smoking in a check out line. The lawmake said something and the smoker told him to mind his own business and go away ( not in those words). The lawmaker simply passed a law making it illegal to smoke in lines at stores, puishable by up to one year in jail.

This happens all the time. Its not an isolated incident. I could show you other laws that are just as stupid in their inpsiration and implementation.

It doesnt matter if they are republican or democrat. From what I have seen, both sides tend towards imperialism when they achieve power if the public doesnt hold their feet to the fire and expect results. The only way to get their attention is to let them know they can be replaced if they dont respond to their constituents.

Good post!
39 posted on 01/04/2003 10:11:30 AM PST by judicial meanz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Reaganwuzthebest
Have you or anyone listened to Rush Limbaugh lately? I don't listen to him much, but it's going around he's now supporting the idea of amnesty for all illegals using the lame "George Bush is a great war president" excuse to justify it.

I certainly hope that proves to be a false rumor. I haven't listened to Rush lately but what I have noticed with Rush in the past is that he tends to tip toe around the general issue of illegal immigration and amnesties every time a caller brings the subject up. Often he will agree with the caller, make some comment that he will talk about the issue in greater detail later in his show and drop the issue cold.

So I do get the feeling that Rush does get heat from the Republican Higher-Ups on his views about immigration and is "persuaded" to avoid touching on the topic. But to turn around and ENDORSE a Blanket Amnesty on the grounds that Bush is a “Great War President”? That's Absolutely Outrageous. What does that have to do with Amnesties? In fact Amnesties are a National Security Risk to this nation!

If Rush has indeed been muscled by party types to join the Open Borders "Sell Out America" Crowd and use his substantial influence to sell this Cr*p to the rank and file you can bet the ranch that George Bush is laying the groundwork for one HUGE AMNESTY. And it shows just how powerful the Ruling Beltway Elite can be in controlling the media. Scary.

Where did you hear this?

40 posted on 01/04/2003 10:45:20 AM PST by WRhine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Tom_Tancredo_Fan
I believe that if Tancredo wanted to throw his hat in the ring and get the message out that he would close the borders to illegal immigration and put an end to social services to illegal aliens, he would have massive support coming from voters in every state in the union. American taxpayers are sick and tired of paying the bills. The Constitution Party is in favor of this platform.
41 posted on 01/04/2003 10:54:46 AM PST by janetgreen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
What in the name of 'Founding Fathers' and 'The Alamo' are those lunatics doing with image of the American Flag and the Mexican Flag all snaked together like that?

That symbol is an affront to the sovereignty of this country and tells everything one needs to know about the agenda of these border governors. What I find interesting about that Traitorous Attached Flags Symbol is that it is in a physically "impossible" shape. If you follow each flag towards the center of the symbol both of the flags turn "inside out" to attach to the front of the other flag, though the symbol makes this graphically "ambiguous".

It's really quite fitting as the terms "impossible", "turns inside out" and "ambiguous" describes well what America gets out of a fused relationship with Mexico.

42 posted on 01/04/2003 11:03:52 AM PST by WRhine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: WRhine
Where did you hear this?

Saw it on another forum from a poster who said it was in Rush's latest newsletter, the rationale apparently used to encouraging the House to write a bill in favor of amnesty has the following quote: "While it's morally wrong and politically unwise...(silence) this is a great war president".

This particular poster is the only source I've heard the news from and have been seeking confirmation of it, but if it is true it definitely looks like there may be some conditioning of the conservative masses being attempted. Big mistake if Rush thinks we can be brainwashed into such a ludicrous idea. He's better off sticking to the Ted Kennedy parodies, that's the only reason why I ever listened to him anyway.

43 posted on 01/04/2003 12:04:09 PM PST by Reaganwuzthebest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
Close all borders now. We need to become isolationists. "Kill em' all, let God sort them out".
44 posted on 01/04/2003 12:14:53 PM PST by rooster1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: 4Freedom
The governors of the border states are being elected by the same tidal wave of illegal immigrants that we'd be asking them to stop. The same governors that just returned from a meeting with Mexican state governors, where they discussed ways to open our borders further, are the ones we'd be petitioning to stop this madness. Fat chance of that, anymore.

Great Post 4F. You brought up several interesting points. It's no accident the Governors of the Border States are in a fixed orbit with the Open Border Cabal. Both parties studiously screen out any aspiring candidate in their party that believes in a Sovereign America. These candidates never get past GO in the first round. It's why there are so few Tom Tancredos in our government (how did he make it through the gauntlet?).

To date I've focused all of my lobbying efforts on my federal representatives. Yes, that's not enough. In many ways getting involved on the local level, where the rubber meets the road, is a far more productive way to get your voice heard and get things done.

The governors of the border states are hopelessly, pro-open borders, pro-illegal immigration, one (3rd) worlder, Liberal, Democrats or RINOs. That's why the newly legal and fraudulently voting illegal aliens elected them.

Bump That. It's quite telling how the Republicans suddenly dropped their protest of Motor Voter shortly after the Democrats enacted it. Motor Voter is one of the Greatest Acts of Treason our government has ever perpetrated on the American People. Apparently many Republicans are in on the action too. Yeah, Sure, let Illegal Aliens, any kind of non-citizen vote in OUR elections. America is in rapid descent.

45 posted on 01/04/2003 12:24:26 PM PST by WRhine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Reaganwuzthebest
Saw it on another forum from a poster who said it was in Rush's latest newsletter, the rationale apparently used to encouraging the House to write a bill in favor of amnesty has the following quote: "While it's morally wrong and politically unwise...(silence) this is a great war president".

I guess nothing has to make sense anymore. Yeah, it looks like our worst fears are about to be realized. Rush is a fool to go along with this. This is going to tear the party apart. Common Sense is totally gone from the political scene.

46 posted on 01/04/2003 12:37:15 PM PST by WRhine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: WRhine
What do fellow Freepers think about this: The illegal immigrant problem (completely leaving out illegal or even legal terrorists) is not really an immigration problem but a nanny state problem. Would so many people come here if:
1. There was no free health care
2. There was no welfare of any kind or foodstamps
3. They had to pay for their children to go to school and their kids had to speak English in school
What do you think?
47 posted on 01/04/2003 1:45:17 PM PST by First Amendment
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: rooster1
Take your racists comments elsewhere. We don't condone violence.
48 posted on 01/04/2003 3:38:40 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Lim-baugh Humbug! Heard he was ready to crawl like a worm when he ran into Hillary Clinton at a social function recently. Now G. Gordon, there's a guy who doesn't grovel and continues to tell it like it is.
Poster 45 has a good question there. How does Tancredo defy the status quo without retribution? Other than Carl Rove's, of course. I don't remember anyone electing Carl Rove for anything.
49 posted on 01/04/2003 4:22:20 PM PST by NewRomeTacitus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: judicial meanz
Bump for later reading.
50 posted on 01/04/2003 4:44:20 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-83 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson