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CALIFORNIA: 5-year-old ban in bars leaves owners, customers fuming
Appeal-Democrat.com ^ | 5 January 2003 | Scott Bransford

Posted on 01/06/2003 6:58:16 AM PST by SheLion

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To: philosofy123
Sorry, I really don't do liberal speak very well. However, looking through your range of arguments, and I am being generous, as your analogies really don't apply, it still comes down to:

You were at a party, someone lit up a cigar. Other than the obvious bad manners, I'm assuming the person did not ask permission. While it was wrong on the part of the person who did it, if the person hosting the party was not offended, or chose not to say anything, you could have either said something to you host, or left. Those were your choices. However, to remove the responsibility of any action on your part, you would rather the mushy collective action and responsiblity of passing a law against such behavior, so no blame or or responsibility rest directly on your shoulders.

As for a loaded diaper, whatever, tell you what, why don't you go ahead and pass a law agains that, also. While your at it, pass a law against smokers smelling like smokers.

61 posted on 01/06/2003 8:33:07 AM PST by stylin_geek
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To: stylin_geek
Every law has a loophole. So what everyone did here was open a patio outside which it is actually nicer especially with the CA weather. And/or a cigar bar where people can smoke to their heart's content. These bar owners who are complaining are losers who will be history soon anyway. The Marine Corps way "improvise, adapt, overcome"...
62 posted on 01/06/2003 8:33:37 AM PST by kellynla
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To: ThomasJefferson
Still private. Sniff sniff. You can't smoke there. Sniff sniff. Cry me a river. You can eat. I don't sink you up. You don't sink me up. Life's a B and then you die.
63 posted on 01/06/2003 8:34:11 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: mr.pink
Five years ago, for the first time I could take small children and my wife out to eat without having to wash my clothes and shower as soon as I got home.

Let's see, an ice tea for me, a water for my wife. The kids will just go play the video games.

Tip? What for? All I had was ice tea.

Yep, the bar owner can really make a living off of you.

64 posted on 01/06/2003 8:37:16 AM PST by HIDEK6
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To: philosofy123
There are lots of things that I think stink - certain colognes, deodorants, soaps, etc - it is your responsibility to make sure you don't stink so you are acceptable to me.

That makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it????

Exposure to raw shrimp causes my eyes to swell shut rendering me nearly blind for up to several hours. Other people I know are allergic to all types of shellfish. Therefore shellfish should be banned in all public places so our health is not jeopardized by selfish shellfish eaters.

65 posted on 01/06/2003 8:38:04 AM PST by Gabz
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Comment #66 Removed by Moderator

To: HIDEK6
Oops, should have sent that to the daughty one.
67 posted on 01/06/2003 8:38:39 AM PST by HIDEK6
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To: TheBattman
I certainly appreciate businesses dividing the resteraunt into smoking and non-smoking sections. Of course, any smart business owner would do such without a law to require it - I am a non-smoker who will not go in a resteraunt if I can't get away from the smoke - MY CHOICE.

Smoking and the non-smoking sections are great. That is the way to go. And most places (bars/restaurants) invested in big smoke eaters, and they do wonders. They make it pleasant for everyone.

I know I have been in places years back, where there were no smoke eaters, and you could cut the smoke with a knife. I, being a smoker, didn't like THAT either. But today's innovations with smoke eaters are just wonderful.

However, even that isn't enough for the smoke nazi's.

68 posted on 01/06/2003 8:38:46 AM PST by SheLion
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To: DoughtyOne
Five years ago, for the first time I could take small children and my wife out to eat without having to wash my clothes and shower as soon as I got home.

Let's see, an ice tea for me, a water for my wife. The kids will just go play the video games.

Tip? What for? All I had was ice tea.

Yep, the bar owner can really make a living off of you.

69 posted on 01/06/2003 8:40:34 AM PST by HIDEK6
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To: DoughtyOne
You never answered my question; "What do you do about automobile exhaust?
70 posted on 01/06/2003 8:40:54 AM PST by saminfl
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To: AppyPappy
The sign is true - I can refuse service to anyone without giving a reason.
71 posted on 01/06/2003 8:41:03 AM PST by Gabz
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To: stylin_geek
And, not to defend business owners to much, there are a lot of owners that willingly abrogated the right to run their business as they see fit to government dictate.

Oh! For sure! Take a peek at this article telling us how some bars/restaurants in California have taken the prohibitionist way around smoking bans, in order to hang onto their business:

From Fox News:
While cops try to sniff out the worst offenders, in many cases they're butting up against organized opposition. Bartender phone trees warn each other of impending busts, powerful fans blow away tell-tale scents of "smokin' in the boys room" and tin cans double as ashtrays in case of an unexpected visit by police.

California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban

Also, check this one out:

Research fails to justify smoking ban in restaurants

72 posted on 01/06/2003 8:43:14 AM PST by SheLion
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To: kellynla
Remember that the next time you have a house built, then some government functionary comes by and tells you that the law has changed, and you are going to have to spend several thousand dollars more than you originally budgeted. Now apply same idea to business owners who suddenly had to spend money to accomodate both smokers and non-smokers, because of a change in the law.
73 posted on 01/06/2003 8:45:12 AM PST by stylin_geek
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To: geaux
Ping.
74 posted on 01/06/2003 8:45:13 AM PST by geaux
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To: DoughtyOne
I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad experience - but the point of the issue is, that if enough people like you would speak to the owners/managers of your favorite establishments there would be no need for the heavy handedness of government intervention.

While I don't speak for all smokers, I know I speak for many - our problem is not with businesses that choose to go non-smoking to cater to a clientele such as you and your family.

Our gripe is with the anti-smoking zealots that insist the government must force every establishment to cater to them - whether they plan to ever set foot in an establishment or not.

75 posted on 01/06/2003 8:46:36 AM PST by Gabz
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To: DoughtyOne
"Five years ago I and the other non-smokers were freed from the stench. I am glad."

Interesting. I was unaware that non-smokers in the past were forced into smoking establishments in California. You people are goofier than I thought.


76 posted on 01/06/2003 8:46:44 AM PST by Freedom4US
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To: saminfl
My wife has a fellow worker who smokes. The lady goes out to the back to smoke. She thinks she's pretty clever. She takes breath mints with her. She comes back in and puts lotion on right away. She exhales and hasn't the slightest idea how people know she has been smoking. It isn't that strong so nobody minds. They still find her amusing.

Yep I can go down the street. How nice of you. Can I really? I mean that's really going beyond the call. I can actually go back out to the car and leave. Wow, I never imagined someone would be so thoughtful. Thanks.

Two people walk into an establishment to patronize it. One person pulls out an item, lights it and stinks up the whole restaurant. The other person doesn't invade anyone elses space. Nothing they do affects the person five, ten, twenty or more feet away.

To the smoker the guy who is at fault here is the person who doesn't smoke, doesn't inflict the residual effects of his habbit on everyone else. In fact, he should even be there. It is unreasonable for that person to think that he should be able to eat in an establishment with affecting anyone else.

The non-smoker hasn't taken an action. The smoker is that person. You would think that the non-smoker was doing something. He isn't. All he asks is for the other person not to do something.

If I went into a resturant, opened up a can of rotten fish, and let it sit on the table because it was a custom from the old country, I'm sure you'd think it was acceptable. Right? The smoke does essentially the same thing every time they light up.

You may not realize it, but hair picks up odors. If you don't wash your hair, you stink when you go to work. Yep, I've gotten all cleaned up after work, gotten dressed in a nice clean outfit. Put on a coats and gone out. And when I came home my clothing was unfit to wear again.

Go down the street? In an open smoking environment the restaurant down the street has smokers too. As I stated, I'm not willing to stay home so someone else can practice their filthy habit to my detriment.

77 posted on 01/06/2003 8:47:04 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
When you go down the street and there are NO smokers, do you still shower to get the stink of automobile exhaust off you? Do you want to ban the internal combustion engine?
78 posted on 01/06/2003 8:50:05 AM PST by saminfl
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To: philosofy123
Smoking is addictive, and the smokers crave that nicotine in their blood periodically during the day. It was acceptable for the nonsmokers to share the room or even the car with smokers, and now it is not acceptable. Smokers should live with that fact; that they stink, and their presence stink the room. They need to smoke outside, and spray deodorant on themselves as they renter the room-not to offend others. Self-consciousness is a good idea for them to be acceptable in the society. If you have lots of gas, you do not impose yourself on everyone in the room?

You might not be a Liberal, but you can talk the trash with the best of them!

You people who have swallowed with out a second thought all the lies put forth by the anti's about second hand smoke have to be pitied. Why don't you do some research on your own. Or are you to afraid that you might learn the truth?

That the anti's are saying what you WANT them to say, therefore , you take their word as the word of God. I got a newsflash for you! You've been duped. Second hand smoke is NOT the killer the anti's make the gullible believe. It's just another ploy to control smokers.

When the anti's war on the smoker didn't work, they got on the band wagon telling the non-smokers that we are killing them. Also, if you believe all this garbage, why don't you believe that smoking is down, and most places are smoke free, so you prissy noses don't have to worry about being around the evil smokers anymore?

Just where DO you go today that your forced to be around smokers? And just WHEN did you take your BABY to a BAR? I'd love to have seen THAT!

79 posted on 01/06/2003 8:50:07 AM PST by SheLion
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To: metesky
I actually enjoy arguing a good point. Don't tell. Heh heh heh. Take care.
80 posted on 01/06/2003 8:50:31 AM PST by DoughtyOne
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