Put off by public schools, more Muslims home-teach

KRT ^

[chance33_98]

Put off by public schools, more Muslims home-teach

BY DEBORAH HORAN Chicago Tribune

CHICAGO - KRT NEWSFEATURES

(KRT) - Ibrahim Imam, 9, starts his school day at 8:30 a.m. sharp. Like other fourth graders, he studies math, science, reading and cursive writing. He also practices Arabic and recites the Koran.

And, like a small but growing number of Muslim pupils nationwide, he learns each subject in his living room seated across a desk from his mother.

Seema Imam started home-schooling her son two years ago, after she decided that Ibrahim was doomed to the margins of public school life in Hickory Hills, Ill., and in danger of internalizing negative ideas about his religion.

She cites one illuminating incident. Teachers at her son's elementary school trying their best to include Muslim culture in the curriculum celebrated Ramadan by bringing ice cream sundaes to her son's class. Muslim children observing the monthlong fast couldn't eat the treat.

"Though they try to understand our kids, they just don't," said Imam, a devout convert to Islam who wears the head-to-toe hijab. "Our kids are involved in other people's holidays, then our holiday is misunderstood or left out."

Like their Christian counterparts, Muslims who choose home schooling often do so to escape exposure to sex, drugs and violence. They want to instruct their children in Islam, Arabic and Islamic civilization, subjects left out of ordinary public curricula.

They worry that their kids will feel excluded in classrooms where pupils draw reindeer and color Easter eggs but have never heard of qataif, a Muslim pastry eaten during the holy month of Ramadan, when the daily fast is broken after sundown with a family meal. Since Sept. 11, parents are anxious their children will be exposed to slurs and harassment.

"Drugs, gangs in schools, and now we have something additional," said Cynthia Sulaiman, a home-school advocate from Massachusetts who runs an organization called the Muslim Homeschool Network and Resource.

"With 9/11, the fears that parents have. ... I think it's growing even more," she said.

There are no reliable statistics for the number of children in America schooled at home. No law requires registration, so it is impossible to keep accurate tabs, said home-school advocate Dorothy Werner, a member of a Chicago-based home-school organization. Estimates for home-schoolers nationwide range from 1.6 million to 2 million, Werner said.

[happygrl]

They want to instruct their children in Islam, Arabic and Islamic civilization, subjects left out of ordinary public curricula.

Yes, but will they learn anything about the Pilgrims, George Washington, the Revolutionary War, The Bill of Rights, Abraham Lincoln and other aspects of American history ?

[Young Rhino]

Why do they want to keep them out of public schools? The NEA is doing a good job of whitewashing 9/11 with a pro-Arab slant, i.e. the U.S. deserved to be attacked by the camel jockeys.

[NeoCaveman]

Pings!

[Jabba the Nutt]

Good question and sounds like a marketing opportunity to me. How about a book on American history aimed at Muslim Americans?

[Doc Savage]

Muslim 9th Grade Math: Semtex Calculations for Killing Jews

Muslim 10th Grade History: Mohammed Slaughters the Infidels

Muslim 11th Grade Economics: How to Disrupt and Destroy The Israeli Economy

Muslim 12 Grade Phys.Ed.: Infiltrating The U.S. with A Suitcase Nuke

Muslim 11th Grade Sex Ed: Sex and the Burqua; Going Down for Allah

[LouD]

Islamic civilization

There's an oxymoron...

[Sungirl]

This is one reason I don't really like home schooling. It restricts the kid from hearing other ideas and seeing how others live, react, behave, share, fight, love, help eachother, connive, lie...etc. These muslims can now bring up a generation of Terrorists if they want too....hating America.

[South Hawthorne]

Yes, but will they learn anything about the Pilgrims, George Washington, the Revolutionary War, The Bill of Rights, Abraham Lincoln and other aspects of American history ?

Sure!  They'll learn all they need to know, that we Americans are infidels who must be killed as is commanded by the insane ramblings of the koran.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

[TontoKowalski]

Are you under some delusion that these fine subjects are taught thoroughly in public schools?

Homeschool Dad Bump.

[TontoKowalski]

I don't see how homeschooling has anything to do with "hating America." Some on this forum will argue that the public education movement is doing quite well in spreading a "hate America" agenda.

Another topic: I know next to nothing about Islam, but I did know that Ramadan included a fast. Setting aside the merit (or lack of merit) in celebrating/recognizing Ramadan in the public school, if I were in charge of such an effort, I would at least have sense enough to ask someone (like a Muslim) who could tip me off that ice cream would be a bad way to recognize the holiday.

[DCPatriot]

On one hand, I can appreciate the right of any parent to want absolute control of what their child learns while growing during the formative years. You lose faith in the Public Schools and/or can't afford Parochial or Private Schools, and you think "no way" are you going to expose your children to the MTV culture and the deplorable dumbing down of our children.

OTOH, however, you can see how authorities can be frightened by possibly seeing a generation of misfits...especially when an unfamiliar religion enters the equation. For example, would you want your Little Leaguer's teammate to be learning that your son is an infidal and deserves to be killed in the name of a deity?

Of course my example is extreme, but.....

[Clovis_Skeptic]

Our kids are involved in other people's holidays, then our holiday is misunderstood or left out."

Then why don't you move to a non-christian nation, there are plenty to choose from!!!

[spodefly]

These home-schooled Muslim children, like all other Muslims worldwide, will learn first and foremost that:

"The Islamic Movement is an organized struggle to change the existing society into an Islamic society based on the Koran and the Sunna and make Islam, which is a code for entire life, supreme and dominant, especially in the socio-political spheres… the ultimate objective of the Islamic movement shall not be realized unless the struggle is made by locals. For it is only they who have the power to change the society into an Islamic society." -- Islamic Foundation

[chance33_98]

Of course my example is extreme, but.....

Understood, but then going back to 'the good old' days in the 1700-1800's there was no nationalistic education plan. Freedom in learning/teaching was the norm. So we have to ask ourselves - are such freedoms too much freedom? Can we trust americans to do the right thing? Loads of questions, and only one answer. More coffee! Brb all :)

[Far Right Of Left]

"Ibrahim Imam, 9, starts his school day at 8:30 a.m. sharp. Like other fourth graders, he studies math, science, reading and cursive writing. He also practices Arabic and recites the Koran.
I have a feeling that this kid will do alot more reciting of the Koran than studying any other subject. Much like his fellow cult members in the Pakistani,Saudi Arabian,etc. so-called "schools",when all that is taught is the Koran & other subjects are a non-entity,you therefore have generations of ignorant kids that believe only what they have always known,hate taught by the Terrorist Handbook.

[Clovis_Skeptic]

This is one reason I don't really like home schooling. It restricts the kid from hearing other ideas and seeing how others live, react, behave, share, fight, love, help eachother, connive, lie...etc.

Please don't equate home schooling with isolation.

[NC Conservative]

camel jockeys

Wait now, I resemble that remark

[chance33_98]

Looks like the question for the thread is: Should Homeschooling be regulated by the state/fed govt and if so how much and in what way.

[Sungirl]

For many, it is isolation...and meant to be so...like in this article.

[CholeraJoe]

Put off by public schools, more Muslims home-teach

Since every home-schooled child is certain to be accepted at Harvard or MIT (according to the homeschoolers on FR) doesn't this mean that within a few years, the student bodies of these universities will all be Muslim?

[mr.pink]

This is one reason I don't really like home schooling. It restricts the kid from hearing other ideas and seeing how others live, react, behave, share, fight, love, help eachother, connive, lie...etc.

You're associating home schooling with social isolation, and that is simplistic.

My nephews and neice were home schooled, but they were always involved in sports and cultural programs. They did miss out on the putting condoms on bananas lessons so important to the public schools, but luckily there were no questions pertaining to that on the SATs (well not yet anyway).

[latrans]

Home teach? What's in a word. Home..Go Home!

[CholeraJoe]

Looks like the question for the thread is: Should Homeschooling be regulated by the state/fed govt and if so how much and in what way.

Here's my 2 cents worth as I buckle my asbestos suit.

Almost all states have mention of education in their constitution. I like the one from Texas because it says why it is in the state's power to regulate education.

A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools.

I do not object to homeschooling as long as the teachers have the same or better qualifications as teachers in public or private education. Where I get upset is when people who barely finished high school insist on homeschooling their children with limited resources.

A poster on another thread last week insisted that she could become qualified to teach any subject by immersing herself in the topic at the library. I suggested heart surgery probably didn't lend itself to this approach.

[montag813]

You all are missing the point. One thing noticeably absent from this home schooling article is the absence of State gestapo tactics to try and stop it, or to enforce licensing, or to demand that the children learn about homosexuality, etc.

You see, only WHITE CHRISTIAN parents are subject to the whims of Orwellian bureaucrats, not Muslims.

[chance33_98]

A poster on another thread last week insisted that she could become qualified to teach any subject by immersing herself in the topic at the library. I suggested heart surgery probably didn't lend itself to this approach.

Well, perhaps not heart surgery. But my sister is about as bright as a box of rocks under water. She does just that for each subject (they spent something like three months alone on egypt and I defy any kid in public school to say they know more on the subject), and the state of Ohio tests her 3 kids a few times a year and they pass with flying colors. They know more at the ages they are at then I did when I was in school.

[PuNcH]

Yes, but will they learn anything about the Pilgrims, George Washington, the Revolutionary War, The Bill of Rights, Abraham Lincoln and other aspects of American history ?

Not if they goto a public school.

[mr.pink]

Where I get upset is when people who barely finished high school insist on homeschooling their children with limited resources.

That's a very sound point.

There are many unqualified public school teachers as well, but the biggest problem is parents who aren't involved in their children's education i.e- making sure they do their homework, read at grade level, sound attendance, good grades.

[PuNcH]

Where I get upset is when people who barely finished high school insist on homeschooling their children with limited resources. A poster on another thread last week insisted that she could become qualified to teach any subject by immersing herself in the topic at the library. I suggested heart surgery probably didn't lend itself to this approach.

Sounds almost as bad as a public school. In reality the poster from the other thread will do a better job than most public school teachers.

[Capriole]

Yall are debating the validity of homeschooling, but the take-home message of this article has nothing to do with homeschooling. Don't get sidetracked. The point is that these dangerous psychos place teaching Arabic and the Koran above acquiring American values and knowledge. As the quote from the Islamic Foundation confirms, they are a subversive force in America.

[CholeraJoe]

Thanks to both of you. This is the most reasonable discussion I've had on the topic. Usually I get flamed by a hundred posters. Maybe they haven't found this thread yet.

[Pete]

For many, it is isolation...and meant to be so...like in this article

That is just not the case. There is nothing in this article that indicates these children are isolated.

Studies commissioned by the US Department of Education showed that, if anything, homeschooled children are BETTER socialized than their public or private school peers. "Socialization" is generally defined as interpersonal skills and communication skills. (Although, when NEA-types use this term, they really mean secular humanism indoctrination).

Excerpts from such a study are below.

Clearly, your view of homeschooling is erroneous.

Another socialization-related accusation faced by home educators is that of overprotecting their children from the real world. If this is true, however, at least one researcher (Bliss, 1989) does not consider this to be a serious problem. She argues that "Protection during early, developmental years for purposes of nurturing and growth is evident in many arenas: plant, animal, and aquatic. Why should it be considered wrong or bad in the most vital arena, human development?"

Stough (1992),looking particularly at socialization, compared 30 home-schooling families and 32 conventionally schooling families, families with children 7-14 years of age. According to the findings, children who were schooled at home "gained the necessary skills, knowledge, and attitudes needed to function in society...at a rate similar to that of conventionally schooled children." The researcher found no difference in the self concept of children in the two groups. Stough maintains that "insofar as self concept is a reflector of socialization, it would appear that few home-schooled children are socially deprived, and that there may be sufficient evidence to indicate that some home-schooled children have a higher self concept than conventionally schooled children."

This echoes the findings of Taylor (1987). Using one of the best validated self-concept scales available, Taylor's random sampling of home-schooled children (45,000) found that half of these children scored at or above the 91st percentile--47% higher than the average, conventionally schooled child. He concludes: "Since self concept is considered to be a basic dynamic of positive sociability, this answers the often heard skepticism suggesting that home schoolers are inferior in socialization" (Taylor, 1987).

From the findings of these two studies, it would appear that the concerns expressed by teachers, administrators, and legislators about socialization and home schooling might be unfounded. Indeed, Bliss (1989) contends that it is in the formal educational system's setting that children first experience negative socialization, conformity, and peer pressure. According to her, "This is a setting of large groups, segmented by age, with a variation of authority figures...the individual, with his/her developmental needs, becomes overpowered by the expectations and demand of others--equal in age and equally developmentally needy."

Source: Home Schooling and Socialization of Children. ERIC Digest.

[Sungirl]

You can't speak for all homeschooled kids. Many are homeschooled because their parents don't want them doing that stuff or hanging around other kids...and for other reasons. I see many disadvantages in it too.

[chance33_98]

Maybe they haven't found this thread yet.

LOL. Well, I am open on the whole thing. The fear people have, and it is a legitimate one, is that when you start letting the government get involved they don't know when to quit. A simple state test done twice a year is a fair idea in the scheme of things but then we start getting people who sit around thinking about what if's (and when the gov does that, watch out!)

They can come up with all kinds of terrible scenarios about how this is all bad and wrong, and the only way to save the children is to get more deeply involved. It's kind of like guns. What sort of gun laws were on the books many years ago? Why do we get upset when more and more legislation is passed on guns, et. al?

Some public schools do a fine job, but not nearly enough of them are around. So we see that the government control has not improved things - only made them worse. They just don't know when to stop :) (kind of like me when I get rambling on a thread)

[PuNcH]

Yall are debating the validity of homeschooling, but the take-home message of this article has nothing to do with homeschooling. Don't get sidetracked.

You are the one who is being sidetracked and by this article. The damage public schools are doing to this country is way beyond the threat of a few muslims being too isolated from the rest of American society.

[mr.pink]

You can't speak for all homeschooled kids.

And you can't smear them all according to your stereotype either.

I see disadvantages as well in many circumstances, but the broadbrush labeling them as victims of social isolationism is unfair.

[Diva]

No law requires registration, so it is impossible to keep accurate tabs, said home-school advocate Dorothy Werner, a member of a Chicago-based home-school organization. Estimates for home-schoolers nationwide range from 1.6 million to 2 million, Werner said.

Dorothy is a friend of mine and I know she was speaking of Ill. only. Many states require registration and testing, only a few like Mich. and Ill. do not. 9/11 will be used as a convenient excuse to curtail all sorts of freedom. This unfortunately is the price we in the homeschooling community will have to pay just as those who travel by air and who work in the industry have had to pay.

OTOH I would rather hear that a Muslim mother is teaching her children than the local Muslim religious leader. And, if these homeschooling Muslim families try to have a religious leader form a school for them to attend where such instruction can occure than they will be under the restrictions of whatever state laws are in place. Where does the recruitment take place for these terrorists?

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

If you want to start making it more difficult for Muslim parents to homeschool their children, it would take very little to make it more difficult for conservative Christians to teach their children the supremacy of Western Civilization from a biblical perspective. If state storm troopers appear at my door and take away my children because I teach "radical" Christianity, I believe we will see some trouble.

BTW, there is nothing currently that can stop a mosque or group of Muslims from setting up their own religious schools.

[Pete]

I do not object to homeschooling as long as the teachers have the same or better qualifications as teachers in public or private education. Where I get upset is when people who barely finished high school insist on homeschooling their children with limited resources.

Studies show you needn't worry and common decency says maybe you should mind your own business.

The following is an excerpt from one such study and is representative of other studies' results.

In a landmark study, Strengths of Their Own: Home Schoolers Across America, Dr. Ray reports on the results of data collected on 5,402 home schooled students during the 1994-1995 and 1995-1996 academic years. The results re-affirm the many other studies that indicate homeschooling is academically superior to both public and private schooling. The most interesting aspect of the data, however, is revealed when student performance on standardized tests is correlated with the parents' education level. Look at the following bar graph:

The black bars represent the performance of homeschooled students on a standardized basic battery test grouped by the mother's education level. The results are very similar if the data are grouped by the father's education level. Compare this to the gray bars, which represent the performance of publicly schooled students grouped by their parents' education level! What conclusions can we draw from these data? It's really quite simple. While a publicly-schooled student's academic performance is directly correlated to his or her parents' education level, a home schooled student's academic performance DOES NOT depend on his or her parents' education level!

Source.

[PuNcH]

If we knew in advance that every single home-schooled muslim would turn into a terrorist, they still wouldnt be able to do the amount of damage to this country as public schools.

[CholeraJoe]

This anecdotal study has little credibility because it has not been peer reviewed and was assembled by researchers biased in favor of homeschooling. Please post something from the Rand corporation or the Kaiser Family Foundation that supports homeschooling.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

"I do not object to homeschooling as long as the teachers have the same or better qualifications as teachers in public or private education. Where I get upset is when people who barely finished high school insist on homeschooling their children with limited resources."

This comment indicates that you don't know what you are talking about. What qualifies one to be a teacher? We homeschool and my wife is a certified in elementary education. She shakes her head every day and tells me that the teacher ed. dept. did absolutely nothing to prepare her to be a teacher. We know some people who barely graduated from high school and lived on a farm with limited resources who had their kids placed at MIT and Harvard.

I have known teachers with Masters and Ph.Ds who can't teach their way out of a paper bag.

The whole thing revolves around who has ultimate authority over children: Parents or the State. You are gonna need alot more than an asbestos suit if you think that the State has ultimate authority over children.

[CholeraJoe]

We know some people who barely graduated from high school and lived on a farm with limited resources who had their kids placed at MIT and Harvard.

The plural of anecdotes is not data.

[ConservativeDude]

"This is one reason I don't really like home schooling. It restricts the kid from hearing other ideas and seeing how others live..."

Interesting. This is one of the reasons I don't like government education. You only get one viewpoint: the secular socialist version from unqualified and half-literate union employees.

America is the land of the free. Homeschooling or better parent directed education is a fundamental right. If a parent wants to give the child an Islamic education, so be it. There should be no laws against what a parent can teach. That is the cost of freedom.

Having said that, we need to toughen immigration and criminal laws to make sure that people who want to harm America do not benefit from the great freedoms we offer to all who are law abiding and hardworking.

I'm willing to let Muslims, liberals, new agers and atheists all homeschool rather than give up the right to direct my child's education.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

"This anecdotal study has little credibility because it has not been peer reviewed and was assembled by researchers biased in favor of homeschooling. Please post something from the Rand corporation or the Kaiser Family Foundation that supports homeschooling."

Excuse me, but homeschoolers do not need your approval, Mr. Big Britches. Why don't you post something as to how you and your jack-booted thugs would go about getting control over our children so that they could be safely in the arms of your Nanny State. Of course it should be sugject to peer review.

Bottom Line: Please just mind your own business and leave mine alone.

[mhking]

While I support home-schooling strongly, I have to wonder whether in addition to "Readin', Ritin', 'n 'Rithmatic," the youngsters are learning how to "kill infidels."

Some might immediately say that we ought to regulate home schools, but isn't that what the liberals (under the guise of the NEA) are trying to do now?

There is no easy answer to this.

[ConservativeDude]

"I do not object to homeschooling as long as the teachers have the same or better qualifications as teachers in public"

Fair enough. I do not object to public education so long as the teachers have the same qualifications as most parents. Let's start with literacy. Unfortunately, from your perspective, by our mutually chosen criteria, more public school teachers will be fired than parents.

[Don'tMessWithTexas]

Your assertion that anecdotal evidence is not data is absurd. Anectdotal evidence is just that it is: anecdotal. It may not be use to predict outcomes, but it is certainly valid to describe outcomes.

I have anecdotal evidence that children in the government school curse more, drink more and fool around more. Do I need a peer reviewed study in order to come to a valid conclusion that the government school presents a bad environment for children? Of course not. Acccordingly, your assertions are poppycock.

[savedbygrace]

You obviously know very little about home eduation, Sungirl. All of the homeschoolers I know (and that's hundreds of kids, and adults who've graduated) are well aware of many viewpoints.

If you've had a conversation with a homeschooler (and from your comment, I'd guess you haven't knowingly done so,) you'd know they speak on an adult level from an early age.