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Connecting the War on Guns & Drugs [my title]
SHOTGUN NEWS ^ | 1/11/03 | Amicus Populi

Posted on 01/11/2003 10:15:11 AM PST by tpaine

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To: Texaggie79
Texaggie79 wrote:

Why don't you fight the unconstitutional prohibition on nukes?

There are no unconstitutional prohibitions on nuclear materials kiddo. -- I think we have fairly reasonable regulations, -- although I would like to see many more nuclear power plants. -- Which is a political problem, backed up by the same types that back prohibitions on guns & drugs.
-- People like you.

Such sound facts you have on this issue.

You have facts that counter mine?
-- Post them my boy. -- Feel free.

[two bits you won't even try]

701 posted on 04/03/2006 11:18:42 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
You have facts that counter mine?

Let's reexamine what has transpired on this thread.

You state that no government entity, whatsoever, can constitutionally prohibit me from acquiring anything.

I then ask where you stand on nuclear and biological weapons. To which you reply that those prohibitions are ok because you see them as "reasonable".

You also try to make the case that nukes are prohibited to me, because I could go live on a deserted island, and have those weapons. Well, I'm sure if I were doing scientific research on cocaine for medicinal purposes, I could probably legally obtain such material under the close watch of the government, as would be the case with say a private nuclear power company.

So instead of saying EVERYTHING should be up for grabs, then backtrack and say that well nukes and bioweapons are ok to prohibit because that's reasonable, why not try to convince us that it is not reasonable to prohibit crack, or crystal meth, or heroine in states who's vast majority see the very use of those substances as a violation of their rights due to safety issues and standards?

702 posted on 04/03/2006 11:30:54 AM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
Texaggie79 wrote:

Why don't you fight the unconstitutional prohibition on nukes?

There are no unconstitutional prohibitions on nuclear materials kiddo. -- I think we have fairly reasonable regulations, -- although I would like to see many more nuclear power plants. -- Which is a political problem, backed up by the same types that back prohibitions on guns & drugs.
-- People like you.

Such sound facts you have on this issue.

You have facts that counter mine?
-- Post them my boy. -- Feel free.

[two bits you won't even try]

Let's reexamine what has transpired on this thread. You state that no government entity, whatsoever, can constitutionally prohibit me from acquiring anything.
I then ask where you stand on nuclear and biological weapons. To which you reply that those prohibitions are ok because you see them as "reasonable".

There you go again, boldly misrepresenting what I've written just above.

You also try to make the case that nukes are [not] prohibited to me, because I could go live on a deserted island, and have those weapons. Well, I'm sure if I were doing scientific research on cocaine for medicinal purposes, I could probably legally obtain such material under the close watch of the government, as would be the case with say a private nuclear power company.

Exactly my point, my boy. Thanks for making it once again.

So instead of saying EVERYTHING should be up for grabs, then backtrack and say that well nukes and bioweapons are ok to prohibit [Another bold lie, I never said that] because that's reasonable, why not try to convince us that it is not reasonable to prohibit crack, or crystal meth, or heroine in states who's vast majority see the very use of those substances as a violation of their rights due to safety issues and standards?

Texbaby, -- thousands of essays have been written on the unconstitutionality of prohibitions on drugs, guns, private sexual behaviors, etc; -- on & on. The essay posted above is a fine example, and you reject it, but ask for more.
--- None of them can convince you neo-prohibitionists.

Instead, why not write your own essay to try to convince us that it is reasonable to regulate [up to the point of prohibition] crack, or crystal meth, or heroine on the basis that it violates ~your~ individual rights due to safety issues and standards?
-- Try to prove that you can enforce such invasive regulations without violating our individual rights to life, liberty, or property.

If you succeed, you would be a national hero.

703 posted on 04/03/2006 12:36:39 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

Your problem is that you call it prohibition with drugs and regulation with bio/nukeweapons, when it is, in fact, that a regular citizen is prohibited from owning either, yet certified government supervised entities could obtain such material.

It makes no difference that you see no danger or violation of community standards if you have a crackhead living next door, what matters is that the majority of your state does, and if they so choose to regulate that material and prohibit regular citizens from obtaining it, just as they prohibit them from obtaining nuke/bioweapons, they, constitutionally, can.


704 posted on 04/03/2006 3:11:57 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
So instead of saying EVERYTHING should be up for grabs, then backtrack and say that well nukes and bioweapons are ok to prohibit [Another bold lie, I never said that] because that's reasonable, why not try to convince us that it is not reasonable to prohibit crack, or crystal meth, or heroine in states who's vast majority see the very use of those substances as a violation of their rights due to safety issues and standards?

Texbaby, -- thousands of essays have been written on the unconstitutionality of prohibitions on drugs, guns, private sexual behaviors, etc; -- on & on.
The essay posted above is a fine example, and you reject it, but ask for more.

--- None of them can convince you neo-prohibitionists.

Instead, why not write your own essay to try to convince us that it is reasonable to regulate [up to the point of prohibition] crack, or crystal meth, or heroine on the basis that it violates ~your~ individual rights due to safety issues and standards?

-- Try to prove that you can enforce such invasive regulations without violating our individual rights to life, liberty, or property.

If you succeed, you would be a national hero.

Your problem is that you call it prohibition with drugs

It is. Prohibitions violate due process of Constitutional law.

and regulation with bio/nukeweapons,

It is. Reasonable regulations of materials capable of mass destruction do not violate due process of Constitutional law.

when it is, in fact, that a regular citizen is prohibited from owning either, yet certified government supervised entities [~people~] could obtain such material.

Rave on kiddo. -- You can't prove ~your~ point, so you try to misrepresent mine in order to defend unconstitutional prohibitions on drugs, guns, whatever..

It makes no difference that you see no danger or violation of community standards if you have a crackhead living next door,

In 69 years of life kid, I've had a lot of weird neighbors. - But none that I considered dangerous or in "violation of community standards". -- You do? Call 911. There are hundreds of criminal laws to protect you from 'dangerous' people.

what matters is that the majority of your state does, and if they so choose to regulate that material and prohibit regular citizens from obtaining it, just as they prohibit them from obtaining nuke/bioweapons, they, constitutionally, can.

Yep, thats the way you communitarians want our country to be run. No way.

Give it up. -- Your communes standards will never rule in our Republic.

705 posted on 04/03/2006 4:02:01 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
It is. Reasonable regulations of materials capable of mass destruction do not violate due process of Constitutional law.

I'm just going to have to quit. I think this has to be some joke you are playing if you can't see your twisted logic here. Drugs are regulated, weapons are regulated. How? through prohibiting regular citizens of obtaining either. It's exactly the same. The punishments/fines whatever might be different, but both are impossible for me to legally go out to my street corner and buy. EXACTLY THE FREAKING SAME THING.

706 posted on 04/03/2006 4:05:32 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
" -- Most Americans are moving to the idea that drugs and guns are evil and should be prohibited. Encouraging one way of thinking supports the other because the logic of the arguments is the same.

Why not prohibit a dangerous evil? If every drinker is a potential alcoholic, every drug-user a future addict, and every gun-owner a potential killer, why not ban them all? There is no defense against this logic except to challenge the lies that sit at the root of the arguments. Those are the lies promoted by the prevailing propaganda in support of all Prohibition.

We cannot oppose one and support the other. To do so undermines our efforts because all these movements walk on the same legs. --"

__________________________________

The logical core of the article.

--- Prohibitional power has never been granted to any level of government, federal/state or local.
Governments are limited to legally 'reasonable' regulatory powers by the basic principles of our constitution.

Reasonable regulations of materials capable of mass destruction do not violate due process of Constitutional law.

I'm just going to have to quit. I think this has to be some joke you are playing if you can't see your twisted logic here.

I've been presenting the same unrefuted logic since this thread started kiddo.
You can't 'see' it? Read the article again.

Drugs are regulated, weapons are regulated. How? through prohibiting regular citizens of obtaining either. It's exactly the same. The punishments/fines whatever might be different, but both are impossible for me to legally go out to my street corner and buy. EXACTLY THE FREAKING SAME THING.

And you support those prohibitions.

--- Those prohibitional powers have never been granted to any level of government, federal/state or local.

707 posted on 04/03/2006 4:36:45 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
--- Those prohibitional powers have never been granted to any level of government, federal/state or local. Yet somehow, they magically have for nuke/bioweapons. And don't say "no those are reasonable regulations" because I can say the exact same thing of hard drugs. There is no difference constitutionally.
708 posted on 04/03/2006 5:24:22 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
Prohibitional power has never been granted to any level of government, federal/state or local.
Governments are limited to legally 'reasonable' regulatory powers by the basic principles of our constitution.

Yet somehow, they magically have for nuke/bioweapons. And don't say "no those are reasonable regulations" because I can say the exact same thing of hard drugs.

You can 'say' hard drugs compare with CNB materials, but it's ludicrous. -- Your neighbor can have his basement secretly full of 'hard drugs', at no risk to you. CNB materials, extremely high risk, possibly to a whole city/county.

There is no difference constitutionally. [between hard drugs & CNB materials]

Dream on kiddo. -- Or is it cocktail time again that's fueling your imagination?

709 posted on 04/03/2006 6:05:59 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
You can 'say' hard drugs compare with CNB materials, but it's ludicrous. -- Your neighbor can have his basement secretly full of 'hard drugs', at no risk to you. CNB materials, extremely high risk, possibly to a whole city/county.

I just got you buddy. Took a while, but you bit. You have just, unknowingly, admitted that there is no constitutional difference in prohibiting private ownership of nuke/bio weapons and narcotics. You did so because you are trying to argue that those weapons are dangerous to others while narcotics aren't. This is where the community/state comes in. Because why should the entire nation follow exactly what tpaine thinks is too dangerous and what isn't? This is what you are proposing by saying that states cannot prohibit private ownership of narcotics because YOU don't see them as dangerous enough to merit such a regulation. Weather hard drugs are as dangerous to neighbors as those weapons is of no importance here. What is important is who get's to decide if they are or not? States or tpaine?

710 posted on 04/03/2006 6:11:55 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
Texaggie79 wrote:

I just got you buddy. Took a while, but you bit.
You have just, unknowingly, admitted that there is no constitutional difference in prohibiting private ownership of nuke/bio weapons and narcotics. You did so because you are trying to argue that those weapons are dangerous to others while narcotics aren't. This is where the community/state comes in. Because why should the entire nation follow exactly what tpaine thinks is too dangerous and what isn't? This is what you are proposing by saying that states cannot prohibit private ownership of narcotics because YOU don't see them as dangerous enough to merit such a regulation. Weather hard drugs are as dangerous to neighbors as those weapons is of no importance here.

What is important is who get's to decide if they are or not? States or tpaine?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sigh. -- We discussed this exact same 'gottcha game' you play, -- several days ago. -- I answered you about "who decides" in detail at #635:

Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/820965/replies?c=655


Read it, and reply if you can.
711 posted on 04/03/2006 6:39:06 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: Texaggie79

Texaggie79 wrote:

I just got you buddy. Took a while, but you bit.
You have just, unknowingly, admitted that there is no constitutional difference in prohibiting private ownership of nuke/bio weapons and narcotics. You did so because you are trying to argue that those weapons are dangerous to others while narcotics aren't. This is where the community/state comes in. Because why should the entire nation follow exactly what tpaine thinks is too dangerous and what isn't? This is what you are proposing by saying that states cannot prohibit private ownership of narcotics because YOU don't see them as dangerous enough to merit such a regulation. Weather hard drugs are as dangerous to neighbors as those weapons is of no importance here.

What is important is who get's to decide if they are or not? States or tpaine?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sigh. -- We discussed this exact same 'gottcha game' you play, -- several days ago. -- I answered you about "who decides" in detail at #656:

Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/820965/replies?c=655


Read it, and reply if you can.


712 posted on 04/03/2006 6:43:52 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
We are all responsible for being "reasonable" about each others Constitutional liberties.

Who get's to decide what is reasonable? Because my definition obviously differs from yours.

713 posted on 04/03/2006 6:56:56 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79

Read my answer at #656.


714 posted on 04/03/2006 7:10:52 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

So the legislators, executives and judges get to decide. Ok then, well they decided that it was reasonable to regulate narcotics through prohibiting possesion by private citizens.

What's the complaint then?


715 posted on 04/03/2006 7:31:33 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79

Read our Constitution and you might get a clue.



716 posted on 04/03/2006 9:01:29 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

LMAO, you just go in circles.

Constitution apparently means by "property" that nothing can be prohibited from us.

What about bio/nuke weapons?

Well we can make reasonable regulations on bio/nuke weapons.

Why not drugs?

Because that's not reasonable.

Who says? The constitution.

Skip back to the top.


717 posted on 04/03/2006 9:08:58 PM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
Texaggie79 wrote:

LMAO, you just go in circles.

You claim, as you chase your own tail.

Constitution apparently means by "property" that nothing can be prohibited from us.

"Apparently"?. [see Harlen on due process]

What about bio/nuke weapons? Well we can make reasonable regulations on bio/nuke weapons.

Yep, so we have.

Why not drugs? Because that's not reasonable.

Yep, prohibitions made on drugs. guns, etc, are Constitutionally unreasonable.

Who says? The constitution.

How bout that kiddo, you've finally 'got it'. Congrats.

718 posted on 04/04/2006 5:37:50 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

So there we have it. All this "unconstitutional" bs is fake. We have come to the heart of the matter.

Drugs and wmds are both regulated through prohibiting private citizens from owning them. It's reasonable for wmds, but not drugs, so sayeth the tpaine, all mighty tpaine.


719 posted on 04/04/2006 9:32:17 AM PDT by Texaggie79 (Did I just say that?)
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To: Texaggie79
So there we have it. We have come to the heart of the matter. Poor tex is reduced to misrepresenting my arguments, -- because he has none of his own.

Drugs and wmds can both be reasonably regulated using Constitutional means.

But instead we must have prohibitions on liberty. -- So sayeth the communitarians, those who think they are an all mighty majority.
720 posted on 04/04/2006 9:53:16 AM PDT by tpaine
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