Posted on 01/11/2003 12:03:01 PM PST by hoosierskypilot
A person is an individual and is only inferior or superior to others due to his own characteristics. But when you start breaking up people into groups it's impossible for all groups to be exactly identical in every way. Look you have geographically isolated human populations evolving in separate directions for almost 100,000 years. These changes are so massive they result in differences in height, weight, bone structure, facial structure, eye color, hair color, skin color, disease resistances, etc.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to believe that evolution could have occurred for 100,000 years on isolated populations and changed nearly every aspect of them, yet somehow magically the brains are either 100% unchanged, or they all changed exactly the same way at the same rate in every human population. This defies belief.
It's not about inferiority or superiority, its about acknowledging that people and groups are different. Blacks are more likely to suffer from sickle cell anemia than any other group, does that make them inferior? Whites are more likely to suffer from skin cancer than any other group, does that make them inferior?
All races do not have the same average intelligence. Notice I say average, the individual deviation is huge. Clarence Thomas is much more intelligent than Bill Clinton. The solution is to stop breaking up and judging people by race, but instead judge them by individuals. The problem is that due to unchangeable genetic factors, there will always be differences in the performances of different races. Liberals will use these differences in outcome as ipso facto proof of racism, which results in anger among blacks who feel they're being mistreated, and anger among whites who bend over backwards to please and are constantly attacked/insulted.
Our current attitude of racial hypersensitivity is not conducive to long term societal harmony.
This seems like very, very unsound science. It looks to me like a politically-motivated researcher IS TRYING as hard as s/he can to jump to conclusions. Everybody say it with me: CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.
Instead of ASSuming the white teachers are having trouble with these black kids because of their race, the researcher should have looked for majority black schools that didn't fit the pattern of white flight. The researchers should analyze how the student body and administration are different at the different schools in order to get more insight into the problem.
This researcher noticed an important and interesting trend, but is more interested in twisting the results politically than in delving deeper into the matter and getting a better understanding of things.
Correlation. Causation. Not the same thing. Maybe (the possibilty that I've been careful to avoid because it's not completely politically correct) is that some black students are more likely to harass a white teacher when they're in the majority in the class, and this creates an hostile work atmosphere for the teacher, so s/he leaves, and goes somewhere where s/he doesn't have to take so much crap. I would bet the rate of white flight varies from school to school, out of the majority black schools, and the most important factors are whether the kids are poor and whether the administration backs up teachers when kids give them crap. THAT is what the researchers should be looking into, instead of trying to find a way to make sanctimonious false accusations of racism. These researchers are slandering a lot of good, earnest young teachers by accusing them of being semi-racist.
But John Evans, president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People in DeKalb County, says no one should be surprised to see young white teachers leave for the suburbs after a year or two. Many teachers, especially young women, are scared of black neighborhoods and don't want to be there after dark, he says.
Evans rejects the idea that black schools can't be successful without white teachers. If they don't want to be there, then let them go, he says.
The NAACP is in favor of voluntary segregation? I'm only pretending to be surprised. Just turn this around: "Principal O'Brannon rejects the idea that his school can't be successful without black teachers. If they want to be there, then let them go, he says." and imagine how quick the NAACP would be on him.
Mike Worthington, Avondale High's principal, says some of the blame rests on university education schools. Because they don't train teachers for a diverse classroom, some young white teachers are bewildered by black schools, he says.
"They just don't know," says Worthington, who is white. "They perhaps don't understand their students, and the nuances and the style and the dress."
This sounds like a perfect example of an asshole principal who refuses to back up his teachers. And what he's saying is completely crazy. The education departments at most schools are completely PC and spend more time on multiculturalist crap than on actually teaching teachers how to teach. They have low academic standards and are more interested in whatever faddish new politically correct educational trends they can find. New Math, Whole Language--it's all CRAP. There are plenty of 60-year-old half-deaf white teachers in white schools who are so flipping completely out of step with youth culture that they think Eminem is a candy. They don't feel an overwhelming need to quit. It's not a question of being culturally out-of-step, unless this principal means the culture many black students come from pushes them to be hostile to white people, who are expected to walk on eggshells around them. The culture some of these students come from is hostile to academic achievement in general; it's poisonous--it should be rooted out and destroyed--not celebrated as some sort of multicultural relic that needs to be respected by white teachers.
It is obvious that there are discrepancies between one individual and another, and that not all persons are the same in height, weight, bone structure, facial structure, eye color, hair color, skin color, disease resistance, etc. Conceding that, however, is different from believing, as was suggested by Freeper rmvh, that some individuals are prevented from becoming “the best of the best” by virtue of their racial heredity.
I'm sure we agree there, but I’m not sure I understand you when you say,
All races do not have the same average intelligence.
As much as you say we need to think in terms of individuals and not of groups, you slipped in a sweeping generalization.
Intelligence is not a racial characteristic.
Yes, a person can pour over the “Bell Curve,” and can find tests and academic statistics to show blacks doing more poorly than other races, and can conclude that blacks are less intelligent. Then he might catch himself in this uncouth notion and concede that there are exceptions to this “rule,” as he acknowledges a prominent black man or two, so that he doesn’t fall into the category of complete racial egoism. But in making this concession, he disproves his own argument. If there are exceptions to the “rule” that blacks have a lesser intelligence average, there is no grounds on which to make the sweeping generalization about blacks as a group. Therefore, the disparity between black and white academic achievement and test scores cannot be racial at all! If the black race lacks in intelligence to a greater extent than other races, the possibility of a single individual breaking the confines of his disadvantaged race to measure up with those of “higher intelligence” is nil. It is impossible. To paraphrase John Locke, lower intelligence cannot beget higher intelligence.
No, not one race is intellectually more or less than another. It is other factors which account for low academic achievement and test scores.
It should be no secret that the greatest influence on a child’s education is his family. A child who receives little or no guidance at home with his education is likely to be less intellectually motivated and stimulated than one who has the encouragement and involvement of his parents. Then again, it is not enough to merely have the involvement--for, some parents are overbearing, and use compulsion and force to try to get the child to learn, to the detriment of the child’s incentive to obtain a real education for himself.
The child must be allowed to grow at his own pace, in an atmosphere of freedom and care, like a plant nurtured to fruition.
This kind of environment is rare in America today, for all races. Especially for blacks, who often lack the security of a traditional family, but even for whites--whose culture can be credited for the scholastic system of tests, grades, and desk-sitting at the expense of self-motivated study.
Our current attitude of racial hypersensitivity is not conducive to long term societal harmony.
Neither is racial insensitivity. I’m afraid our battle against liberal race-baiters has made some of us go overboard and become soft in the fight against racism.
On another thread a few days ago about the high incidence of abortion of black children, one Freeper pointed out that least now there are fewer blacks to vote democrat. What a good thing it is that abortion is legal in Florida because otherwise Gore would have won?! (See #10)
Not to mention another thread about the death of Emmett Till’s mother, and the ugly comments there.
Come on, people!!
Wrong. See, I agree its wrong to see a black person and instantly assume he's dumb. If that had been my argument, you would be right. What really upsets me though is, every time a new study comes out showing disparities in the performance of whites and minorities, the assertion is always that it's due to the racism of evil white people. I feel it necessary to point out that there are other perfectly logical explanations for the disparities. I also find it curious how asians somehow are unaffected by this crippling white racism and actually outperform whites. Maybe its time to stop blaming the poor performance of minorities on whites, and blame it on the people who are performing poorly, and then help them do better. Blaming people who aren't responsible for the problem is never going to help, and only creates huge amounts of anger and resentment.
That’s not the point. It is a matter of logic:
The black man is your equal. That’s the fact.
What really upsets me though is, every time a new study comes out showing disparities in the performance of whites and minorities, the assertion is always that it's due to the racism of evil white people.
“Disparities in performance” .… Nice phrase. Reminiscent of what one expects out of a trained animal, not a person.
Bull$hit. I don't know where you get this argument from. You're basically pulling it out of your ass and using handwaving to justify your argument. No one's talking about lesser or greater races. It's just that if you take any two groups, it's statistically impossible for them to have the exact same measurements in anything, even IQ. What you said displays a stunning lack of even the most rudimentary understanding of genetics. If the average IQ of a group is 90, that doesn't mean there can't be individuals in that group with IQs of 150 or more. And when two of those individuals come together and have a kid, their child can be even more intelligent. I wholeheartedly suggest you crack open a high school biology text and do some reading on even basic genetics like Gregor Mendel's work with dominant and recessive genes. Your ignorance is almost embarassing.
Here's an example to make it easy for you to understand. The average asian is shorter than the average african. But its easy to find individual asians who are taller than the average african. Thus your argument is disproven by the existence of a single counterexample. Q.E.D.
The black man is your equal. That’s the fact.
Now who's generalizing? Some are my equal, some are my inferior, and some are my superior. Who is "the black man"? Who is "the white man"? Are you implying all blacks are so alike and without individuality that they can be referred to as a singular entity? Are you a sexist implying that black females are inferior, since you only bothered to specifically mention the black man?
“Disparities in performance” .… Nice phrase. Reminiscent of what one expects out of a trained animal, not a person.
You have a major chip on your shoulder or something. Ever heard the phrases "school performance" or "job performance" ?
The statement, "All races do not have the same average intelligence," was not written color-blind, and thereby was not interpreted as color-blind.
The problem here is that I was talking about intelligence, not IQ tests. I was talking about education, not performance. I was talking about the inherent equality all men have under God due to their common humanity, not the variety of physical traits among human beings that make us unequal in irrelevant ways.
Important distinctions.
Who is "the black man"? Who is "the white man"? Are you implying all blacks are so alike and without individuality that they can be referred to as a singular entity? Are you a sexist implying that black females are inferior, since you only bothered to specifically mention the black man?
Sad that the politically-correct language of feminists has left so few immune.
And sad that a decent dialogue is so hard to come by these days. It comes from not enough Socrates:
“Surely by far the greatest number err about the goods of the mind; they imagine themselves to be much better men than they are. . . .“And of all the virtues, is not wisdom the one which the mass of mankind are always claiming, and which most arouses in them a spirit of contention and lying conceit of wisdom?” (Socrates, Philebus [48-49])
And now that this conversation is entirely off-topic, I'm signing off.
He lasts less than a year ? Then describes the conditions that made him leave....the very conditions that made him decide to take the job in the first place ? There is something missing in this story.
Your suspicion is on the money. This story is pure propaganda -- the reason white teachers leave black schools is racism, pure and simple. I've worked in black-dominated social work agencies and taught comunity college for black bosses, and it's the racism, stupid! Open, often violent racism. If blacks endured what I and some of my white colleagues saw on an everyday basis, the feds would have taken over the offending institutions. (Not all whites suffered; some bought protection, by helping black racists terrorize other whites.)
The line about white teachers fleeing black schools for higher-paying, white ones has been spread by the unions all over the country, and their media allies. But a New York study showed that most white teachers who tried teaching black kids in New York City and quit, left the profession in disgust.
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