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Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?
1/12/03 | Sparta

Posted on 01/12/2003 9:15:48 PM PST by Sparta

I've been reading posts by people who use the term Conservative and others who use the term Libertarian. I have a question for all FReepers, is there a difference between the two?


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I say at the end of the day, there is no difference between the two. Only the kooks on both sides try to distinguish the most minute of differences.
1 posted on 01/12/2003 9:15:48 PM PST by Sparta
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2 posted on 01/12/2003 9:16:59 PM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: Sparta
Avoid labels.
3 posted on 01/12/2003 9:18:55 PM PST by Fred Mertz (...and tag lines too.)
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To: Sparta
I don't think conservatives are as pro drugs as libertarians. But I know nothing about the latter except what I read on FR.
4 posted on 01/12/2003 9:22:51 PM PST by hoosierskypilot
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To: Sparta
I say at the end of the day, there is no difference between the two. Only the kooks on both sides try to distinguish the most minute of differences.

You mean like ones pro-life and ones pro-choice or that one is pro-dope and the other is anti-drug ?

5 posted on 01/12/2003 9:23:16 PM PST by Democrap
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To: Sparta
Are there any differences between Conservatives and Libertarians?

Yea, conservatives are filled with hate for Libertarians and Liberals. Libertarians couldn't care less.

6 posted on 01/12/2003 9:23:59 PM PST by lewislynn
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To: hoosierskypilot
I've never seen a libertarian actually say they were for drug use. I consider myself a libertarian and I don't use drugs(legal or illegal).
7 posted on 01/12/2003 9:24:21 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Democrap
Most Libertarians here are pro-life(like yours truly)
8 posted on 01/12/2003 9:25:14 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Sparta
Is there a difference between the two?

Yes. Conservatives believe in the principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution, and the vision of the Founding Fathers for our country.

Libertarians believe in a separate ideology of absolute minimal government that is sometimes in line with conservatism, but often incompatible with our seminal ideals found in English common law, and with the concept of a limited and localized but not non-existent government as set forth in the Constitution.

Most conservatives are small-L libertarians, but it doesn't work the other way around.

Conservatives don't want to legalize drugs, either.

9 posted on 01/12/2003 9:27:00 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (How's that?)
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To: lewislynn

Yea, conservatives are filled with hate for Libertarians and Liberals. Libertarians couldn't care less.

I despise Libs and I'm libertarian. I think liberal-socialist statists are the biggest threat the Republic faces domestically.

10 posted on 01/12/2003 9:27:08 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Sparta
If you don’t believe in the platform of your party what the he&& you doing there?
11 posted on 01/12/2003 9:27:45 PM PST by Democrap
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To: Sparta
Libertarians are not the same as Conservatives. Libertarians are mostly interested in legalizing drugs.
12 posted on 01/12/2003 9:27:47 PM PST by Pete53
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To: hoosierskypilot
I don't think conservatives are as pro drugs as libertarians. But I know nothing about the latter except what I read on FR.

And that's the problem. We're not pro-drug, per se (although some individuals may be, much as some individuals are pro-Gore; there are wackos in every arena).

We're pro-liberty and individual responsibility. This is what distinguishes us from Republicrats and Demopublicans. When we demand a much smaller government, we actually mean it.

13 posted on 01/12/2003 9:28:04 PM PST by Hank Rearden (Bringing you grumpy bon mots since early '99.)
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To: Sparta
Whatever.
14 posted on 01/12/2003 9:29:08 PM PST by lewislynn
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To: Democrap
I'm a registered Republican. I would be a member of the RLC but Louisiana doesn't have a chapter. I would never register as Libertarian for many reasons.
15 posted on 01/12/2003 9:29:22 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Hank Rearden
Finally an ally on this thread.
16 posted on 01/12/2003 9:30:19 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Hank Rearden
We're not pro-drug, per se

Horse hockey.

17 posted on 01/12/2003 9:30:25 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: lewislynn
Yea, conservatives are filled with hate for Libertarians and Liberals. Libertarians couldn't care less

BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAAAA!

OK,....

Whew,...

Now that I've caught my breath,...

Naw, I've never read a vile doomsday diatribe by a disgruntled libertarian. Naw, certainly not here on FR.

18 posted on 01/12/2003 9:30:48 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Democrap
Prostitution, gambling, porn, perverted sex - approving of stuff like that?
19 posted on 01/12/2003 9:31:03 PM PST by 185JHP ("I was neat, clean, shaved, sober, and FReeping!")
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To: The Old Hoosier
You have the best reply on the thread. Says it all, and quite intelligently.

prisoner6

20 posted on 01/12/2003 9:31:46 PM PST by prisoner6 ( I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered! I am a FREE MAN!)
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To: Sparta
I despise Libs and I'm libertarian. I think liberal-socialist statists are the biggest threat the Republic faces domestically.

Oh yea, You'll soon find out some Conservatives feel the same about you Libertarians.

21 posted on 01/12/2003 9:32:17 PM PST by lewislynn
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To: Pete53
Libertarians are mostly interested in legalizing drugs.

That is their ugly naked obsession.

Fuzzy pleas for "liberty" and "personal responsibility" is the fig leaf that covers their ugly nakedness.

22 posted on 01/12/2003 9:32:49 PM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: 185JHP
Prostitution, gambling, porn, perverted sex - approving of stuff like that?

For about the 427th time, believing that an activity should not be a crime does not equate to approving of that activity.

23 posted on 01/12/2003 9:34:01 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Sparta
Yes, there is a huge difference.

At some point a Conservative will call for intervention by the state whereas a Libertarian will not.

Usually this is with regard to social issues, abortion, drugs, prostitution.. Typically some type of prohbition.

24 posted on 01/12/2003 9:36:00 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (LOTR out takes, Reel #2 - Aragorn to Sammy & Frodo "Hey! Get a room!")
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To: Sparta
read later
25 posted on 01/12/2003 9:36:40 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Sparta
Conservatives and Libertarians agree in general terms for maximal economic freedom with minimal government intrusion in the economy. There are shades of differences between us when it comes to details, but of course there are also shades of differences amongst conservatives and amongst libertarians as well.

It is when it comes to social issues that the really significant differences emerge. Libertarians are rooted in a philosophy of maximal individual liberty of all types, and thus (at least speaking of the most ideological purists) tend to favor minimal governmental controls on any and all types of social behavior, regardless of the consequences that may have for society as a whole. Conservatives, on the other hand, tend to have an organic view of society rooted in the philosophy of Edmund Burke, and thus tend to be more concerned with conserving the health and well being of society as a whole, including all of its intermediating institutions like families and churches. Thus, conservatives are more open to some governmental regulation of society when there is a compelling reason to do so, and when it does not run too roughshod upon the rights of individuals. Thus, for example, most (but not all) conservatives tend to line up pretty strongly for the pro-life and anti-drug camp, whereas you will see many (but not all) libertarians take the opposite view.

26 posted on 01/12/2003 9:37:11 PM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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To: ThinkDifferent
Yes, it certainly does.
27 posted on 01/12/2003 9:38:13 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Hank Rearden
Not exactly.

More like purists versus incrementalists, with for the most part common goals, but not always.

Libertarians are needed to push the ideals, and scream when a Republican goes soft, sells out, or gets drunk with power. Republicans are needed to reach the actual compromises to make progress with practical implementation, and secure the edges where pure ideology fails to work(relatively rare instances).
28 posted on 01/12/2003 9:38:21 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Sparta
Wow. Read the Libertarian newsletters.
29 posted on 01/12/2003 9:39:24 PM PST by sd-joe
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To: Stefan Stackhouse
So it depends on the individual case?
30 posted on 01/12/2003 9:39:26 PM PST by Sparta (Statism is a mental illness)
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To: Kevin Curry
Who you calling ugly, boy?

L

31 posted on 01/12/2003 9:39:37 PM PST by Lurker (I can't believe noone else said it....)
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To: Sparta
PS: However, every Conservative I ever met has a Libertarian streak. This sometimes blurs the line between the two.
32 posted on 01/12/2003 9:42:23 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (LOTR out takes, Reel #2 - Aragorn to Sammy & Frodo "Hey! Get a room!")
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To: nopardons
Yes, it certainly does

Do you believe bigoted speech should be a crime? If not, does that make you a racist?

33 posted on 01/12/2003 9:42:57 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Lurker
He's slipping. He forgot to add moral liberal and idealogue.
34 posted on 01/12/2003 9:43:02 PM PST by nunya bidness (Your ad here!)
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To: Fred Mertz
I think libertarians are conservatives that go to far. Whenever you hear a libertarian they are always spouting legalized drugs.

The libertatian seems to want an anarchy form of government. An everyman for himself wild west mentality. I think we need some form of government(small) to keep society running and to address disputes. Courts are better than gun fights. Some things government does well, roads, defense, and rule of law, not man.

Note how the libs want you to think all their beloved *-isms are far right. Nazi, a contraction for National Socialist Party. Dictatorships, the last rung on the far left, when all the other *-isms fail.

I see myself as a conservative, free markets and free software. Choose your business model and make money where you can/want, within the laws.

snooker
35 posted on 01/12/2003 9:43:18 PM PST by snooker
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To: Sparta
All Right! This will be the Hatfield's and McCoy's thread for tonight!

Libertarians do not vote in a matter that furthers the conservative cause.

For example in my state (Washington) we would have Slade Gorton (R) for a Senator if it were not for the Libertarian candidates being just successful enough to cause Maria Cantwell to win in 2000.

The Libertarians would argue that Gorton was not a conservative anyway and that there were other factors (and there were I am sure)but any way it lead to the jumping Jeffords incident and the rise of Tom Dashole to the Senate Majority position.

36 posted on 01/12/2003 9:44:29 PM PST by right way right (This is a hit and run I am going to bed now. Sorry)
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To: Sparta
by Sparta

Most Libertarians here are pro-life(like yours truly)

by Sparta

I've never seen a libertarian actually say they were for drug use. I consider myself a libertarian and I don't use drugs(legal or illegal).

by Sparta

I'm a registered Republican. I would be a member of the RLC but Louisiana doesn't have a chapter. I would never register as Libertarian for many reasons.

Then I would say your answer is that Libertarians are a little confused.

37 posted on 01/12/2003 9:48:45 PM PST by Democrap
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To: Hank Rearden
We're not pro-drug, per se (although some individuals may be, much as some individuals are pro-Gore; there are wackos in every arena).

This is exactly what happens in every conservative vs. Libertarian discussion. Whatever one Libertarian says they stand for, another finds a way to qualify it and say it doesn't really represent Libertarian beliefs. As the old joke goes, when two Libertarians actually agree on a position, they accuse each other of selling out.

The defining issue for me (although there are many others like drugs) is immigration. No matter how you slice it Libertarians favor open borders. I don't. I'm an American nationalist and Libertarians aren't. They're laissez-faire to the max, and national interests be damned. Unfortunately, a lot of politicians who call themselves "conservative" these days are sounding pretty Libertarian.

38 posted on 01/12/2003 9:49:01 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: ThinkDifferent
Who knows what the meaning of the word " racist " anymore ? It certainly is no longer what it once was. It has been over used to death and is now mere hyperbolie. It's so bad, that it has replaced the shiboleth : " WHEN DID YOU STOP BEATING YOUR WIFE ? " garbage.

As to FR Libertarians, most, but not all of them tend to completely disagree with the vast majority of the LP's platform, candidate for president ( as well as some of those running for other elected offices ) , and stance on the war on terror. That makes little sense ! If a party doesn't speak for one, why call one's self / be affiliated with that party ?

39 posted on 01/12/2003 9:50:31 PM PST by nopardons
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To: snooker
I think libertarians are conservatives that go to far.

Many libertarians and Libertarians would not want the government to change all the way to the positions their party advocates, but believe that something that was halfway between the liberals' position and that would be better than something that's halfway between the Democrats' and RINOs' positions.

40 posted on 01/12/2003 9:52:37 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: Jhoffa_
At some point a Conservative will call for intervention by the state whereas a Libertarian will not.

Not so. A Libertarian believes in individual rights, so long as they don't infringe upon someone else's individual rights. Therefore the "limited Government" should only intervene when an individual's actions may cause another to lose his or her right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
41 posted on 01/12/2003 9:53:54 PM PST by rivercat (Conservative-Libertarian)
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To: Bernard Marx


42 posted on 01/12/2003 9:54:04 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: Texasforever
ROTFLOL ! That's perfect; absolutely P-E-R-F-E-C-T !
43 posted on 01/12/2003 9:56:42 PM PST by nopardons
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To: dcam

Oh, that's right.

I forgot, they are the party that has no problem with public beastality so long as the pervert in question owns both the beast and the property it's being screwed on.

Now, do you wish to split any other hairs?

44 posted on 01/12/2003 9:57:59 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (LOTR out takes, Reel #2 - Aragorn to Sammy & Frodo "Hey! Get a room!")
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To: dcam
A Libertarian believes in individual rights, so long as they don't infringe upon someone else's individual rights. Therefore the "limited Government" should only intervene when an individual's actions may cause another to lose his or her right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

OH there you go you guys are anti-smoking, thanks for clearing that up.

45 posted on 01/12/2003 10:01:33 PM PST by Democrap
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To: nopardons
As to FR Libertarians, most, but not all of them tend to completely disagree with the vast majority of the LP's platform, candidate for president ( as well as some of those running for other elected offices ) , and stance on the war on terror. That makes little sense ! If a party doesn't speak for one, why call one's self / be affiliated with that party ?

Because one individual doesn't choose the government; the government is formed from compromise. The hope is that the libertarians will influence the government on the issues where they're right and the other parties are wrong (e.g. gun control, no-knock drug raids, etc.) without influencing things too much on the issues where they're wrong and the other parties are right.

Frankly, I'd favor more the Constitution Party if they were on the ballot here (IL). Unfortunately, they seem even weaker than the Libertarians. Still, if one's primary issues of importance are:

  1. No new gun restrictions or registration efforts
  2. An end to no-knock drug raids
  3. Allow states to, at minimum, restrict late-term abortion
  4. "Vermont" carry
It looks to me like the Libertarian Party and Constitution Party are the only two that even come close (Libertarians generally, from what I understand, believe the federal government has no authority to prohibit abortion nor prevent states from doing so). Republicans pay lip service to #1 and #3, but seem to oppose #2 and do nothing for #4. Democrats are, of course, even worse.
46 posted on 01/12/2003 10:03:15 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: Texasforever
That's funny -- and close to the bone!
47 posted on 01/12/2003 10:05:08 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: Democrap
there you go you guys are anti-smoking

Huh? Smoking does not violate anyone's rights ("secondhand smoke" threats have been thoroughly discredited), and as such libertarians oppose restrictions on smoking such as those imposed by the Republican mayor of New York.

48 posted on 01/12/2003 10:06:22 PM PST by ThinkDifferent
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To: Sparta
Libertarians are usually pro-choice, for legalization of drugs, more tolerant of homo-sexuals, less likely to have traditional religious beliefs, and generally dont want to run government, they want to eliminate it. Often they act like a bunch of kooks. Bill O'Reilly is more libertarian than conservative. So is Bill Maher of Politically Correct.
49 posted on 01/12/2003 10:06:46 PM PST by Dave S
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To: Jhoffa_
Hence, my self-classification as a Conservative-Libertarian (aka Republican with a mean Libertarian streak). To me, some things are just so morally reprehensible that it could be argued that they are an infringment on another's right to sleep at night! LOL
50 posted on 01/12/2003 10:08:28 PM PST by rivercat (Conservative-Libertarian)
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