Posted on 01/17/2003 6:11:48 AM PST by chance33_98
Bottom line, Christ tells us that only one without sin can stone the woman taken in adultery. In Islam, adultery is rewarded with the woman's death.
The violence of Revelations is prophecy not instructions to Christians to commit murder. The Sword of Christianity is The Word..., and the Moslems (Turks) got their @$$e$ kicked as many times as The Crusading armies did in the middle ages without any apparent moderating effect on Islam whatsoever.
Islam has had nearly as much time as Christianity to reform. It has not, and I can only conclude that it will not. Time is running out.
Well for one, both Jesus and Paul were Jews. Is it any wonder that they would quote from the Jewish Old Testament?
Christians of today do not follow the rules set out in the Old Testament, be it prohibitions on eating certain foods, instructions on how to sacrifice live animals on an alter, or exhortations to kill Philistines.
When asked which of the commandments was the greatest Christ says "Love God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and all your strength. Second, love your neighbor as you love yourself...." Part of Christ's mission was to bring us face to face with our shortcomings and bloodlust (i.e., our old "sinful" rebellious nature) so that we could move beyond it.
Where in Islam is the message of mercy and forgiveness and love (for Jews and Christians as well as other Muslims)? Yes, the Old Testament is full of violence and murder, and Christ teaches us that we do not have to be a slave to what the past has given us.
If the history of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are less than exemplary then by all means blame men. But only one of these religions explicitly teaches us to do good to all that hate us. One of the other religions explicitly tells its adherents to kill others with whom they disagree.
It has not always been taken as a metaphor, Freebilly. Many people have taken it quite literally. The great 3rd century theologian Origen even castrated himself, in conformance with that teaching (although he later regretted his youthful zeal). And if you're willing to take that teaching as a metaphor, why should it surprise you that past Christians have also seen it as a metaphor - but one meaning that you should violently remove heretics and unbelievers?
Bottom line, Christ tells us that only one without sin can stone the woman taken in adultery. In Islam, adultery is rewarded with the woman's death.
John 7:53-8:11 is not present in the earliest texts of the Bible. Like Mark 16:9-16, it appears to be a later addition, but one that has had great moral value. In Judaism, adultery is rewarded with the woman's death - did that stop the Jews from eventually becoming a peaceful part of humanity?
The violence of Revelations is prophecy not instructions to Christians to commit murder. The Sword of Christianity is The Word..., and the Moslems (Turks) got their @$$e$ kicked as many times as The Crusading armies did in the middle ages without any apparent moderating effect on Islam whatsoever.
Again, Freebilly, it is to modern Christianity's credit that they see the violence in the New Testament as metaphorical, or prophetic, and not one that should actually be applied to one's neighbors. But in the past, Christianity did sanction such an interpretation.
Islam has had nearly as much time as Christianity to reform. It has not, and I can only conclude that it will not. Time is running out.
I don't share such pessimism. Radicalism usually topples under its own weight and weaknesses, and I think it's unlikely that bin Ladin's radical Islam will triumph either - over us or over the future of his religion.
No, but then it's no wonder to me that Christians would quote from the Old Testament either - they put it in their Bible.
Christians of today do not follow the rules set out in the Old Testament, be it prohibitions on eating certain foods, instructions on how to sacrifice live animals on an alter, or exhortations to kill Philistines.
They don't follow what later Christian interpretation has decided is superseded by the teachings in the New Testament. Those things in the OT that aren't opposed by a Gospel or Epistle - the Ten Commandments, for instance - are considered as Christian as anything else.
Koran, surah 3:113: "There are among the People of the Book some upright men who all night long recite the revelations of God and worship Him; who believe in God and the Last Day; who enjoin justice and forbid evil and vie with each other in good works. These are righteous men: whatever good they do, its reward shall not be denied them. God well knows the righteous."
I could quote more. There is a lot of humanity and goodness in the Koran; and that is where its future rests. People who only get their information on the Koran from polemical websites have a warped impression of its message; to be sure, there is stuff in it that can get warped and manipulated by people with malice and evil in their hearts - who can use it to justify hideous acts. There's stuff in the Old and New Testaments that can be exploited too.
Yes, the Old Testament is full of violence and murder, and Christ teaches us that we do not have to be a slave to what the past has given us.
Indeed, and history supplies examples of the lesson learned. If Judaism and Christianity could mature beyond the murder and violence some people wanted to use it for, then Islam certainly can too.
If the history of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are less than exemplary then by all means blame men. But only one of these religions explicitly teaches us to do good to all that hate us. One of the other religions explicitly tells its adherents to kill others with whom they disagree.
The Koran, surah 41:34: "Good deeds and evil deeds are not equal. Requite evil with good, and he who is your enemy will become your dearest friend."
It's in their Book, and eventually Islam, like the other religions, will learn the lesson.
So much for "love your enemies"?
You are BEYOND silly, if you think the Christ's teachings don't reshape the world, and overwrite the vengeful God of Isreal, and eye for an eye philosophies of the old testament. Ignore the new covenant if you wish to, ignorance is bliss.
So what are you saying? That the Old Testament, part of the Bible, is not the totally correct word of God that Moses and the Prophets transcribed from God himself? I'm shocked. What does that say about how human understanding may have affected what got transmitted down to us in the New Testament?
Gee does that mean that the six days of creation in the Old Testament and Jesus walking on water may actually be metaphors after all and were not meant to be literal recordings of science and history.
Then I guess we are probably in more agreement than disagreement. I was astonished at some who seem to claim that the Bible is the inerrant word of God and if the Bible says that the World was created in six days, then it was, but then at the same time turn around and seemingly disavow the Old Testament with almost as much distain as the Koran.
I think the reason we see a difference between Old and New testament is more due to man having a better understanding of God rather than God changing his mind.
Brother, have you missed the whole point!! Now that you mention it, however, stamping one's religion on one's lapel, like wearing a six-pointed star in Nazi Germany during the 30's and early 40's to show judaism might be just the ticket! Only this time, it would be the simitar!
Right! How dam*ned dumb is that! Frankly, though, I can't see a muslim involved in an activity which might benefit an infidel unless, of course, there was an ulterior motive behind it.
The only muslim cops I know work in the middle east! If I knew one here, I would want to check his locker after every time he opened it to make sure he hadn't left a bomb in it. If I knew a muslim fireman, same thing! If I know there's a muslim chef cooking in some restaurant, I eat somewhere else. Yes, the list is endless, and although I'm not going to quiz eveyone I meet on the street, I AM going to stay vigilent, stay armed, and NEVER trust a muslim or a liberal (both are terrorists, they differ only in technique and weaponry.)!
I highly recommend the same for all infidels!
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