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Catholic politicians get heads up
The Times-Picayune ^ | 01/17/03 | Susan Finch

Posted on 01/17/2003 12:03:25 PM PST by chemicalman

Edited on 07/14/2004 12:59:30 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The Vatican told Catholic politicians Thursday that they should adhere to the church's positions on abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage and other issues in making public policy, striking a chord that also was played during Louisiana's recent runoff for U.S. Senate.


(Excerpt) Read more at nola.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: aclu; catholiclist; landrieu; liberals; pope; popepacksbags; terrell

1 posted on 01/17/2003 12:03:25 PM PST by chemicalman
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2 posted on 01/17/2003 12:04:09 PM PST by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: chemicalman
The appeal for orthodoxy among Catholic politicians is reminiscent of a pronouncement in the late 1990s that Catholic universities also should adhere more obediently to Rome

I didn't realize there were any Catholic Universities left in the USA
3 posted on 01/17/2003 12:16:51 PM PST by uncbob
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To: chemicalman
The Vatican told Catholic politicians they must oppose laws on abortion, euthanasia and gay marriages and can not accept compromises

So what's next?
The Seventh Day Adventists Church told their politicians on Thursday they must oppose blood banks and transfusions and can not accept compromises?

The Christian Scientist Mother Church told their politicians on Thursday they must oppose laws giving access to medical care because only prayer was appropriate and it can not accept compromises?

And late news from Rome,
"The Vatican told Catholic politicians on Thursday that war with Iraq was wrong and they must give Saddam a big wet kiss and can not accept compromises"?
4 posted on 01/17/2003 12:23:14 PM PST by APBaer
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To: APBaer
So is it ok for a person to set aside his or her moral code or beliefs?
5 posted on 01/17/2003 12:27:44 PM PST by my4kidsdad
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To: my4kidsdad
"So is it ok for a person to set aside his or her moral code or beliefs?"

Well, politicians always act out on them in theocracies,
which much as you might wish it, the USA isn't (yet).
6 posted on 01/17/2003 12:34:48 PM PST by APBaer
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To: my4kidsdad
Thanks for letting me know we're not a theocracy, yet. To me, selling out your faith for political gain is pretty low. Maybe some of the politicians should change religions.
7 posted on 01/17/2003 12:57:06 PM PST by my4kidsdad
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To: chemicalman; *Catholic_list; .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; ...
We at the Catholic Family Association of America are working on getting a private audience with the Pope to present

1)the excommunication petition, to Excommunicate Culture of Death "Catholics" and

2) a plea to change canon law so that politicians who vote to expand/fund abortions or support the homosexual agenda are automatically excommunicated.

If you have not yet signed the excommunication petition, its not too late!

And please keep our efforts in your prayers, especially that our private audience with the Pope is secured and schedulued soon, to coincide with these Vatican directives.

--Dr. Brian Kopp (Polycarp),
Vice President,
Catholic Family Association of America

8 posted on 01/17/2003 1:18:41 PM PST by Polycarp (Satan's Trifecta: 1) Contraception/Sterilization, 2) Abortion/Euthanasia, and 3) Homosexuality)
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To: Polycarp
WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs request the following relief:

A. That Pope John Paul II, Supreme Pontiff of the Catholic Church take jurisdiction of this petition.

B. That Canon 1398 be changed to read: "A person who deliberately enables an abortion or euthanization incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. An elected or appointed official who votes for legislation enabling abortion or euthanasia or who publicly propagandizes for or promotes abortion or euthanasia incurs a latae sententiae excommunication."

C. That he issue to the bishops specific directives concerning the implementation and enforcement of interdiction and excommunication for public promoters of abortion, euthanasia and other forms of direct attack upon life.

D. That he publicly order Defendants to:
1. Refrain from any act or statement which enables, supports or condones abortion, euthanasia and other
forms of direct attack upon life.
2. Publicly repent and retract their errors and promise no further acts and/or statements
which enable, support or condone abortion, euthanasia and other forms of direct attack upon life.
3. Refrain from reception of the sacrament of Eucharist until the above orders have been followed.

E. That he publicly declare that Defendants' acts and/or statements as alleged are:
1. Contrary to and inimical to the faith of the Catholic Church ;
2. A scandal to the Mystical Body of Christ, the faithful of the Catholic Church ; and
3. A sacrilege to the Real Body and Blood of Jesus Christ when Defendants receive
the sacrament of the Eucharist.

F. In the event that any Defendant fails to follow any of the above orders to publicly
excommunicate him or her from the Catholic Church .

Dated at (to be implemented upon closing of the signatory phase)
9 posted on 01/17/2003 1:20:45 PM PST by Polycarp (Satan's Trifecta: 1) Contraception/Sterilization, 2) Abortion/Euthanasia, and 3) Homosexuality)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: nofriendofbills
That Canon 1398 be changed to read: "A person who deliberately enables an abortion or euthanization incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. An elected or appointed official who votes for legislation enabling abortion or euthanasia or who publicly propagandizes for or promotes abortion or euthanasia incurs a latae sententiae excommunication."

Yep. Sheer lunacy, asking Catholics not to enable the ripping of unborn babies from the Womb.

Just nutz.

Which part of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" don't you grasp?

Which part should Catholics ignore?

11 posted on 01/17/2003 1:33:46 PM PST by Polycarp (Satan's Trifecta: 1) Contraception/Sterilization, 2) Abortion/Euthanasia, and 3) Homosexuality)
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To: chemicalman
"I do understand the church trying to gain political support for its positions against the death penalty, abortion in every circumstance and the war in Iraq. But as a senator, I must represent Catholics and non-Catholics alike in all of these important matters."

No, Senator, the Church was focusing on just one of those issues, and you know very, very well which one it was.

12 posted on 01/17/2003 1:36:34 PM PST by madprof98
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To: chemicalman
Kerry Rejects Vatican Politician Criteria
Senator Says He Can't Be Bound By Doctrine

POSTED: 8:00 p.m. EST January 16, 2003
UPDATED: 8:01 p.m. EST January 16, 2003

WASHINGTON -- One of the Democratic presidential hopefuls is rejecting the Vatican's new guidelines for Roman Catholic politicians.

The document approved by Pope John Paul II declares that Catholic politicians must oppose abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage.

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry says that "as a Catholic" he has "enormous respect for the words and teachings of the Vatican." But Kerry says that to "represent all the people" he can't be bound by church doctrine. Kerry's statement says that's part of President Kennedy's "lasting legacy."


But the Vatican says abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage so violate church teachings, they must be opposed by Catholics in public life.
13 posted on 01/17/2003 1:39:36 PM PST by Polycarp (Satan's Trifecta: 1) Contraception/Sterilization, 2) Abortion/Euthanasia, and 3) Homosexuality)
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To: chemicalman; Polycarp
The full text of the "Doctrinal Note on Some Questions Regarding the Participation of Catholics in Political Life" can be found here.
14 posted on 01/17/2003 1:42:32 PM PST by eastsider
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To: chemicalman
"A well-formed Christian conscience does not permit one to vote for a political program or an individual law which contradicts the fundamental contents of faith and morals," said the Vatican, which called the positions "nonnegotiable."

Then I guess that means he has to excommunicate Kennedy?

15 posted on 01/17/2003 1:44:23 PM PST by itsahoot
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To: itsahoot
Maybe so - what are the grounds for excommunication?
16 posted on 01/17/2003 1:46:35 PM PST by my4kidsdad
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To: chemicalman
"Many gay Catholics believe that we are here as part of God's design. We consider that fact 'nonnegotiable,' " he said.

Somehow I doubt God's design includes the decadent bacchanalia (sp?) known as the "gay lifestyle".

Heaven help us. Please.
17 posted on 01/17/2003 1:47:30 PM PST by Desdemona (Pitchers and Catchers report in 28 days.)
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To: my4kidsdad
what are the grounds for excommunication?

As currently written, Canon Law does NOT include automatic excommuncation for politicians like Kennedy who continually vote to expand/fund abortions, a major loophole that Catholic laity should demand to be closed.

Canon Law

     "Canon Law," the juridical law of the Roman Catholic Church, often is cited by both sides in the abortion debate--usually to make a point about the Church's moral stance. However, Canon Law is not a moral code, it is the administrative, civil, jurisdictional, procedural and penal law of the Catholic Church. It is subject to many of the same political, administrative and practical influences that shape any other body of law; while the authoritative moral teachings of the Church, per se, belong to a different forum. But, at times, it is reasonable to make moral inferences from the Canons. Still other times it may not be. Canon Law remains a somewhat esoteric and remarkable body of law, one that is rarely discussed with much understanding.

Background

Juridically, the Church is an autocracy; the pope (alone or with a council) has sole power to draft, promulgate, and rescind the laws that govern a church of c. 900 million. Since ancient times, Canon Law was a collection of active disciplinary decrees (as opposed to moral and theological pronouncements) of the popes and councils. Each law, or "Canon," was known by the first few words of its name in Latin--the Church's official language. However, in 1917, Pope Benedict XV promulgated a comprehensive codified version of the Canon Law (the "Pio-Benedictine Code" or "Code of Canon Law"). This did for Canon Law what the Restatements supposedly do for common law. In 1983, John Paul II promulgated a new Code--the one currently in force.

Historically, abortion arises in two places in Canon Law: the law of "irregularity" and the penal law. Irregularity is a canonical bar (or "impediment") to receiving or exercising holy orders (i.e. being a deacon, priest, or bishop.). Irregularities are not punishments, per se. Insanity and existing marriage are irregularities, as are homicide and apostasy. The penal law, on the other hand, is just like state criminal law, but tailored to ecclesiastical purposes.

Penal Law

The 1983 Code of Canon Law contains the following provision:

Title VI
OFFENSES AGAINST HUMAN LIFE AND FREEDOM

Can. 1397 -- One who commits homicide or who fraudulently or forcibly kidnaps, detains, mutilates or seriously wounds a person is to be punished with the deprivations and prohibitions mentioned in can. 1336 in accord with the seriousness of the offense; however, homicide against the persons mentioned in can. 1370 is punished by the penalties specified there.

Can. 1398 -- A person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.

[The Latin original reads: Can. 1398 -- Qui abortum procurat, effectu secuto, in excommunicationem latae sententiae incurrit.]

An excommunication is the heaviest spiritual sanction the Church can render. So long as it is in force, it bars the excommunicated person from the church community and from receiving most of the sacraments, as well as from all public associations affiliated with the Church. An automatic (or "latae sententiae") excommunication is an especially severe penalty. The nine or so latae sententiae excommunications in the Code are reserved for use against certain things the Church particularly wants to deter, like assaulting the pope (can.1370) and priests divulging matters heard in the confessional (can.1388). Most excommunications can only follow a tribunal trial (can. 1425, §1, 2°). But latae sententiae penalties operate like a bill of attainder in that there is no "process" for their imposition--the fact that the person voluntarily performed the proscribed act, in the absence of some exception provided in the law, means the penalty is incurred. An excommunication can usually be lifted by the local bishop (the "local ordinary") and sometimes by a priest during confession (can. 1354-1357).

The 1917 Code had a similar provision:

Canon 2350, §1 -- Persons who procure abortion, mothers not excepted, automatically incur excommunication reserved to the Ordinary at the moment the crime takes effect: if they are clerics, they shall also be deposed.

Though it is clear enough the Church has always regarded abortion as a serious sin, it was not always accorded a penal sanction in Canon Law equal to that given homicide (nor is it now, see can.1397, supra).

The first papal canon, Effraenatam, that universally imposed a penal penalty of excommunication for abortion was issued by Sixtus V in 1588. It applied to all abortions and was reserved to the Holy See. In 1591, the law was modified by Gregory XIV so that the penalty would not apply when a fetus was not "animated" or "ensouled" under the Aristo-Aquinan theory of when human life begins (not before 40 days) and gave the local bishops control of these cases. This was motivated, at least in part, by the sheer volume of litigation the law had produced ("reserved to the Holy See" meant that each case had to be taken to Rome for the excommunication to be lifted). In 1869, Pius IX rescinded the animation exception. The canons of the 1917 and 1983 Codes apply to all direct abortions. Abortions incident to otherwise lawful medical care that is required to save the life of the mother (e.g. chemotherapy, hysterectomy of a cancerous uterus) are given an interpretive exception from the rule under the priciple of "double effect."

As in all penal laws there are qualifications as to who is subject to a law--Canon 1321, and following, of the 1983 Code makes such provisions.

Irregularity

From the earliest days of the Church, men who had shed human blood, no matter how justifiable or blameless the act may have been, were excluded from entering the priesthood (e.g., Decretum Gratiani by Pope Innocent I in the year 404). This traditionally embraced abortion as a form of homicide. However, in 1211, Pope Innocent III issued the decree Sicut ex, which limited the irregularity incurred from abortion to abortions involving a fetus that was not "animated" or "ensouled." This exception was subsequently abrogated as both of the modern codes have provisions that apply to all abortions (can. 985, §4 in the 1917 Code, and can.1041, 4° in the 1983 Code).

Back to Abortion Law Homepage

18 posted on 01/17/2003 1:52:40 PM PST by Polycarp (Satan's Trifecta: 1) Contraception/Sterilization, 2) Abortion/Euthanasia, and 3) Homosexuality)
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To: Polycarp
thanks
19 posted on 01/17/2003 2:01:28 PM PST by my4kidsdad
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To: chemicalman
Ms. Landrieu et al: I will kill a child to get your vote and to h___with God's Commandments and the teachings of my church. I want to be a Senator!!
20 posted on 01/17/2003 5:43:14 PM PST by victim soul
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To: Polycarp; dansangel
Finally! I have always said that being Roman Catholic is not easy and rules are rules it's time that the Church enforced them. I will pray that the petition makes it to the Holy Father.....
21 posted on 01/18/2003 12:01:00 AM PST by .45MAN (Less Law more Justice)
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To: APBaer
Your precious quadruplets,

POST #26

POST #10

POST #4

POST #3

22 posted on 01/19/2003 4:12:18 PM PST by heyheyhey (Somebody stop the Raelian cloning!)
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To: heyheyhey
Thank you for pointing out, more elegantly than I ever could, how often you yearners for a theocracy have posted your most recent orders from the Vatican on how to implement your dreams.
23 posted on 01/19/2003 4:35:10 PM PST by APBaer
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To: my4kidsdad
So is it ok for a person to set aside his or her moral code or beliefs?

Only if they're Catholics. Posting on this forum you should've learned that by now.
24 posted on 01/19/2003 4:37:23 PM PST by Conservative til I die
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