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CIA BLOCKING CRUCIAL INFORMATION ON IRAQI TERRORIST TIES
Newsmax.com ^ | january 30, 2003 | Newsmax Staff Writer

Posted on 01/30/2003 10:18:22 AM PST by txradioguy

Thursday Jan. 30, 2003; 11:24 a.m. EST Mylroie: Clintonized CIA Blocking Iraq-9/11 Evidence

The CIA is blocking critical intelligence that links Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks, a former top terrorism advisor to President Clinton is contending, and by doing so, she says, the agency is weakening President Bush's case for war against Iraq.

Asked about Salman Pak, the terrorist training camp near Baghdad where, according to a number of Iraqi defectors, al Qaeda terrorists have practiced for years hijacking American airliners using the same methods employed on 9/11, Clinton Iraqi expert Laurie Mylroie told WABC Radio's Steve Malzberg:

"There's a huge debate within the (Bush) administration. The Defense Department wants to bring out information like that. The CIA, which is responsible for dealing with terrorism, accommodated Clinton's desire not to hear about Iraq and terrorism, does not want that information to come out. It acts as Saddam's lawyer."

Mylroie served as President Clinton's top advisor on Iraq during the 1992 campaign, and she has lectured on Middle Eastern terrorism and its origins at the Naval War College and Harvard University. Mylroie is also author of the book, "The War Against America," which details Baghdad's role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

Just minutes before Bush's State of the Union address Tuesday night, Mylroie told Malzberg, "For any official statement to be made by the government, there is an interagency review process and the CIA blocks (the Salman Pak) information. Their response is to say, the defectors are not reliable - because they oppose Saddam you can't believe them."

What about satellite photos backing up accounts from Salman Pak defectors who describe a Boeing 707 parked on the ground, which they say serves as a classroom for Saddam's hijack trainees?

According to Mylroie, the CIA offers the bizarre alibi that the plane "could have been used by the Iraqis for counter-hijacking."

The Clinton terrorism expert says the White House is partly to blame for not forcing U.S. intelligence services to be more forthright about the information they have on Salman Pak, complaining, "Bush has failed to discipline the bureaucracy. And they have put their careers above Bush's career."

Asked to detail the precise role of Iraq in al Qaeda operations directed against the U.S., Mylroie told WABC, "Al Qaeda acts as a front for Iraqi intelligence. Al Qaeda provides the ideology, the foot soldiers and the cover. And Iraqi intelligence provides the direction, training and expertise."

Commenting on reports that the White House would use the State of the Union address to reinforce the argument that Saddam has been working with al Qaeda for years, Mylroie noted, "I'm glad (President Bush) is going to talk about Iraq and al Qaeda. (But) I have some concern that because powerful individuals and institutions are even now unwilling to acknowledge their error, the case is going to be a lot weaker than it could be."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
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1 posted on 01/30/2003 10:18:22 AM PST by txradioguy
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To: txradioguy
Bump

But President Bush does not have to reveal all intel to convince the whiney leftist liberals out for only themselves and power.

He is a rightious Commander-In-Chief. Trust him.

2 posted on 01/30/2003 10:20:58 AM PST by TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday! (Life Is Like a Box of Chocolates, Ya Never Know What Ya Gonna Get!)
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To: txradioguy
I've read it three times, and I STILL can't figure out who'se got the ax to grind, or who's trying to screw whom?
3 posted on 01/30/2003 10:21:28 AM PST by ken5050
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To: txradioguy
Fire the traitorous bastards!
4 posted on 01/30/2003 10:22:11 AM PST by doug from upland (May the Clintons live their remaining days in orange jumpsuits)
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To: everyone
I have faith in him. If I didn't I wouldn't have quit my radio job to return to active duty. The head of the CIA and the FBI should have had their heads on stakes outside WH after 9/11. Clinton and Reno totally turned both into PC fantasy lands and we are reaping the bitter fruit of what was sewn by them.
5 posted on 01/30/2003 10:24:03 AM PST by txradioguy (Doing my part to keep the country free - and defeat spin at all costs!)
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To: ken5050
"I've read it three times, and I STILL can't figure out who'se got the ax to grind, or who's trying to screw whom? "

I agree, the only thing that makes sence to me is that the Clintonistas In the CIA are trying to protect a failed legacy.

6 posted on 01/30/2003 10:24:15 AM PST by cody32127 (Democrats have no soul)
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To: ken5050
I've read it three times, and I STILL can't figure out who'se got the ax to grind, or who's trying to screw whom?

From what I gather, it sounds like the CIA is in major CYA mode, and if the truth were to come out, they'd be excoriated right along with Clinton.

7 posted on 01/30/2003 10:25:34 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: txradioguy
a former top terrorism advisor to President Clinton

I do not trust such a source!

8 posted on 01/30/2003 10:32:18 AM PST by verity
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
They're in CYA mode and still trying to recover from what Torrecelli and Leahey did to them in the mid 90's
9 posted on 01/30/2003 10:33:17 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
I think you have it right, Ghost.
10 posted on 01/30/2003 10:33:35 AM PST by expatpat
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
I think you have it right, Ghost. And I also think the FBI is covering its as* on the OKC bombing.
11 posted on 01/30/2003 10:34:53 AM PST by expatpat
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To: expatpat
I think you have it right, Ghost. And I also think the FBI is covering its as* on the OKC bombing.

From what I've read, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

12 posted on 01/30/2003 10:36:15 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: txradioguy
They're in CYA mode and still trying to recover from what Torrecelli and Leahey did to them in the mid 90's

Care to expand on this? I'm a novice on this subject.

13 posted on 01/30/2003 10:36:47 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
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To: verity
"I do not trust such a source!"


Maybe not, but it should say something about what was really going on during the Clinton years when the people who know where the bodies are buried start digging things like this up.
14 posted on 01/30/2003 10:36:51 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: txradioguy
Doesn't pass the smell test. Do anyone really think that Bush couldn't get the CIA information if he wanted it?

Plus, W's daddy used to be the head of the CIA, so I feel sure he knows the ins and outs of that place. There's probably some reason they don't want to release the info, most likely it would jeopardize the life of the source in Iraq.

15 posted on 01/30/2003 10:42:36 AM PST by webstersII
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To: txradioguy
Extremely important informational bump. Thanks for the post. The CIA and FBI became the Clinton's personal security agencies - not America's. Their number one job was to keep the Rapist in power, no matter what - and to assist any of his terrorist/communist allies who needed such assistance.

So, this information is not a surprise.

However, what is deeply wounding is that our nation does not have the ability - apparently - to remove these traitors from office and put them in jail or in N.Korea.

Only by the grace of God will our nation survive the Clinton/Communist/Terrorist treacheries that exist within our own nation/government. Therefore, prayer is of the utmost importance - now, as always.

16 posted on 01/30/2003 10:44:03 AM PST by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: verity
"I do not trust such a source!"

Mylroie has been on TV several times and seems to be fairly credible - she has consistently maintained that Iraq was involved in the 93 WTC bombing and other terrorist acts. I just bought her book so will be able to compare her thoughts with those of Bodansky.
17 posted on 01/30/2003 10:46:13 AM PST by Ben Hecks (Support a Democrat-free America/)
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To: txradioguy
>>They're in CYA mode and still trying to recover from what Torrecelli and Leahey did to them in the mid 90's

Shoot, they're still trying to recover from what Church did to them in the '70's
18 posted on 01/30/2003 10:49:21 AM PST by FreedomPoster (This space intentionally blank)
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To: txradioguy
Salman Pak - Iraq's Own Terrorist Training Camp
http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/National_Security/wwwboard/messages/826.html

PBS Frontline
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/analyses/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html

Salman Pak: Iraq's Smoking Gun Link to 9-11?
http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2002/8/13/95502

19 posted on 01/30/2003 10:50:11 AM PST by zeaal
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To: txradioguy
The CIA needs to protect its sources. Sometimes revealing the information reveals the sources. It is not unreasonable for the interworkings of the government to make use of intelligence without making that information known to the public in any fashion. Sometimes it is necessary to make use of such information much later, even if this delay causes other problems. This is just a fact of life for the intelligence community.
20 posted on 01/30/2003 10:51:36 AM PST by GingisK
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
"Last week a report issued by the House Intelligence Committee put a large measure of the blame for the U.S.'s inability to prevent the 9-11 attack on the Torricelli principle, rules that prohibited the CIA from recruiting people with criminal records as spies and informants." - Newsmax 2002

The Torch did that out of spite because the CIA caught him banging what turned out to be an informant for a government unfriendly to the U.S. and slapped him on the wrist about it.


Leahey was removed from the Senate Intelligence Comittee and censured by the Senate for allowing an NBC reporter to read a classified doccument critical of Reagan's handling of the Noreiga regime. The comittee decided not to release it but Leahey hated Reagan and loved Noreiga so much he revealed Intel to a reporter who in turn reported on what he saw. That's why Leahey is referred to as "Senator Depends" or "Leakey" Leahey.
21 posted on 01/30/2003 11:01:44 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: txradioguy
NewsMax.
22 posted on 01/30/2003 11:02:31 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Ben Hecks
Did a little searching and found this

Laurie Mylroie: Is Iraq involved with U.S. terror attacks?

Laurie Mylroie is the author of "Study of Revenge: Saddam Hussein's Unfinished War," which outlines her case that Iraq had a central role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. She served as an adviser on Iraq to the 1992 Clinton presidential campaign. Mylroie is currently vice-president of "Information for Democracy," and the publisher of "Iraq News."

CNN: Thank you for joining us today, Laurie Mylroie, and welcome.

LAURIE MYLROIE: Hi, and thank you all for coming to the chat room.

CNN: You believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in both attacks the 1993 and September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center. Why?

MYLROIE: You can demonstrate to the high legal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt, which is used for criminal conviction, that Iraq was behind the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, by showing that Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of that bomb, was an Iraqi intelligence agent. I do that in "Study of Revenge." That bomb, in 1993, aimed to topple the north tower onto the south tower. Eight years later, someone came back and finished the job. Since Iraq was behind the first attack, it is suggestive of the point that Iraq was behind the second attack.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Is there any proof at all that Hussein is involved in the anthrax scares?

MYLROIE: There is no proof that Saddam is involved in the anthrax scares, but proof is different from evidence. Proof, according to the dictionary, is conclusive demonstration. Evidence is something that indicates, like your smile is evident of your affection for me. There is evidence that Iraq is behind the anthrax scares. First, it takes a highly sophisticated agency to produce anthrax in the lethal form that was in the letter sent to Senator Daschle. Not many parties can do that. Second, there is an additive in that anthrax, bentonite, which is used to cause the anthrax to not stick together, and float in the air. Iraq is the only party known to have produced anthrax with bentonite.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Should the U.S.take action against Iraq?

MYLROIE: Yes. It is necessary for the United States to take action against Iraq. The 1991 Gulf War never ended. We continue it in the form of an economic siege whose origins lie in the Gulf War. And also, we bomb Iraq on a regular basis, and Saddam continues his part of the war in the form of terrorism. It is unlikely that that anthrax will remain in letters. It is likely that it will be used at some point, for example, in the subway of a city, or in the ventilation system of a U.S. building. Saddam wants revenge against us. He wants to do to the U.S. what we've done to Iraq. One way he can do that is terrorism, particularly biological terrorism.

CHAT PARTICPANT: What is the connection between bin Ladden and Saddam?

MYLROIE: Bin Laden and Hussein work together. The contact between the two was made in the 1990s when bin Laden was based in Sudan. Iraq intelligence also had a major presence in Sudan then. There were other widely reported contacts between bin Laden and Iraq intelligence, such as in December, 1998 when Farook Hajazi traveled to Afghanistan to meet with bin Laden. Hajazi is a senior intelligence officer. Bin Laden provides the ideology, he recruits the foot soldiers, and he provides a smokescreen. Iraqi intelligence provides the direction and training for the terrorism.

CNN: You hold the Clinton administration responsible for Hussein's involvement in all of these attacks. Why?

MYLROIE: Iraq is a difficult problem, and has been since the Gulf War. Many mistakes have been made, because it's inevitable that in human endeavor there are mistakes. Under the Clinton administration, specifically in February 1993 with the first attack on the Trade Center, Clinton dealt with the issue dishonestly. New York FBI believed in 1993 that Iraq was behind the Trade Center bombing. That was accepted by the White House, that New York FBI might well be right. In June, 1993, Clinton attacked Iraqi intelligence headquarters. He said that that was punishment for Saddam's attempt to kill George Bush when Bush visited Kuwait in April, but Clinton also believed that it would deter Saddam from all future attacks of terrorism, and that it would address the WTC bombing, too, so that Saddam would not think to carry out further attacks against the U.S.

And then the Clinton administration put out a false and fraudulent explanation for terrorism, saying that terrorism was no longer state-sponsored, but carried out by individuals. That false and fraudulent explanation was accepted and allowed Saddam to continue to attack the U.S. The reason Clinton dealt with terrorism in that fashion was because he did not understand the kind of threat that Saddam could pose, and by taking care of the terrorism in New York in that fashion, he avoided riling American public opinion, which might have demanded then, back in 1993, that he do a great deal more.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Do you believe this will eventually escalate into a much broader conflict as other states are identified as helping terrorist organizations?

MYLROIE: I believe that it is necessary to shift the war to Iraq and to do so as soon as possible, because Iraq is a primary threat, the primary terrorist threat to the United States, and as the anthrax shows, that threat can become very, very great. It's necessary to get rid of Saddam.

CNN: The George W. Bush administration publicly focuses on Osama bin Laden and remains internally at odds over whether to implicate Hussein and Iraq in the current war. Is that a mistake?

MYLROIE: Yes, it is a mistake to avoid implicating Iraq, or to be unable to reach a decision about that. If we do not say that we suspect Iraq in the anthrax attacks, then Saddam will have no reason not to escalate to the next step. The next step could be that anthrax used in another fashion which is more deadly, or it could be anthrax that is resistant to antibiotics. We won't be able to treat it, as we can now.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Have you spoken with officials about this information?

MYLROIE: Yes I have spoken with officials, in particular in the Pentagon. The Pentagon shares this view.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: You mentioned the bentonite in the anthrax, and yet we hear that the CIA and FBI are looking at home sources of that anthrax? Why are they not also viewing that as from Iraq rather than a U.S. source?

MYLROIE: That is a good question. Bob Bartley in the Wall Street Journal takes on that question. While one might say it is not impossible that an individual who is very knowledgeable, with access to a good lab, could have produced that in the U.S., it is also extremely unlikely. Iraq is a much more likely candidate. Bartley compares it to the situation of the elephant in the room that some people just don't want to see, including, apparently, the FBI and the CIA. But the American people can see the elephant in the room, and Iraq is a much more likely suspect than an individual in the U.S.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Is it possible that perhaps Iraq is waiting for us to accuse them and then take anthrax to the next level?

MYLROIE: We are in a very, very difficult situation. If we say clearly that it is Iraq, and we're going to get Saddam, then it is likely that he will do his best to bring his enemies down with him. It is true that we face the danger then of more deadly attacks, including anthrax attacks. If we do not say it is Saddam, we will also face the danger of more deadly attacks. This is a terrible situation. Yet I prefer to deal with the losses that will come by taking on Saddam than to be subject to the losses that will occur if we remain sitting ducks. It would seem that some ambiguity in the beginning is the best thing. If we shift the focus from Afghanistan to Iraq, we are indeed at war, and during war, extreme measures may have to be taken. For example, we might think to get children and all non-essential personnel out of U.S. cities while this war goes on, which we will carry out very quickly, or to have people remaining in U.S. cities where they are a target, wearing masks pretty much all the time, in order to deal with this problem which we should address quickly rather than slowly.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Is the reason behind the government not admitting to Iraq's involvement over the oil situation?

MYLROIE: I don't think that the oil situation is a factor. I think that at least two things are at work. First, there is a great confusion because for eight years Clinton treated terrorism as a law enforcement issue, with the emphasis on arresting individuals and bringing them to justice, trying and convicting them. That had the effect of obscuring the role of states in terrorism, particularly Iraq. But in addition, those who went along with his view of terrorism are now personally invested in it, and they are reluctant to give up that view. That would include George Tenet, a Clinton appointee who still heads the CIA, and I believe, the intelligence coming from the CIA is skewed. It may also be that there is an influence of former President Bush and Bush's top advisors from the 1991 Gulf War on President Bush. Some of those people, including former President Bush, Brent Scocroft, his national security advisor, Colin Powell, have not acknowledged that it was an error to end the war in 1991 with Saddam in power, and that may color their judgment now.

CHAT PARTICIPANT: Laurie, is your book still in print? I have been trying to find it in book stores without success.

MYLROIE: The book is still in print. It is now available in hardcover as "Study of Revenge," and it will soon be available in paperback as "The War Against America." Both are listed on Amazon now.

CNN: Do you have any closing comments to share with us?

MYLROIE: I would like to thank everyone for participating in this discussion today, to remind you to emphasize that we face a very, very serious problem. We must deal correctly with it, or the loss of American lives may be very large. And again, I'd like to let people know about my book. It's currently out as "Study of Revenge," and will be available shortly as "The War Against America," published by Regan Books.

CNN: Thank you for joining us today.

MYLROIE: My pleasure. Thank you.

Laurie Mylroie joined the chat via telephone from Washington DC. CNN provided a typist for her. This is an edited transcript of the interview, which took place on Monday, October 29, 2001.

 

23 posted on 01/30/2003 11:02:47 AM PST by McGruff ( "The course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of others.")
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To: webstersII
"Do anyone really think that Bush couldn't get the CIA information if he wanted it?"


No he can't. Not after what Robert Torrecelli did to the CIA. The human assetts simply aren't there anymore. And it takes time to rebuild them to a point where trust is built and reliable HUMINT (Human Intelligence) can be gathered. He's trying to rebuild those contacts. But it would appear that he's being sanbagged by the DCI (Dir. Central Intelligence a.k.a. George Tenet) and that's hard to work around. The only thing that's saved our bacon to this point is the NSA at Ft. Meade, MD.
24 posted on 01/30/2003 11:05:21 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: FreedomPoster
"Shoot, they're still trying to recover from what Church did to them in the '70's"


CHRUCH!!! That's right! I couldn't remember the name! Frank Church. I saw some video of that the other night and lo and behold there was Walter Mondale seated there as one of the comittee members. Needless to say I wasn't surprised.
25 posted on 01/30/2003 11:07:03 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: txradioguy
Text Of President Clinton's Address to the Nation on the Bombing of Iraq
December 16, 1998 (NOTE THE DATE)
http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1998/12/17/70745
26 posted on 01/30/2003 11:07:23 AM PST by zeaal
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To: GingisK
I understand the need for protection of Methods & Sources. Otherwise I wouldn't have the security clearence that I do. But you can't develop and grow methods and sources if rules or people are in position to block you from obtaining it.
27 posted on 01/30/2003 11:09:54 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: zeaal
I read that yesterday. Went back and read the full text after I heard Ted Stevens read exerpts on the senate floor yesterday right before he took the RATS to the woodshed for changing their mind on Iraq. It was great. And actually, I must admit Clinton actually in some places make a stronger arguement for going to war than we've heard from W. Only thing is, W is (thank GOD!) a man of few words and lots of action on a subject and Clinton was the polar opposite.
28 posted on 01/30/2003 11:14:25 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
But President Bush does not have to reveal all intel to convince the whiney leftist liberals out for only themselves and power.

I disagree. He should put everything he has on the table. The American people have a right to see it if their sons and daughters are going to lay down their lives in Iraq.

The protection of "sources and methods" is trumped by the precious blood that may now be spilled. In any case, since the Baathist regime is about to be decimated, the revelation of sources and methods poses no harm to either the sources or the methods, since those who would benefit from learning such information will soon find themselves under a pile of rubble in Baghdad.

Get it all out, Mr. President, and make your case as convincingly as you can. That's what leadership is all about.

29 posted on 01/30/2003 11:24:17 AM PST by beckett
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To: txradioguy
But it would appear that he's being sanbagged by the DCI (Dir. Central Intelligence a.k.a. George Tenet) and that's hard to work around.

I thought the President appointed the DCI. Why would Bush let Tenet keep his job if he ever refused to provide information?

30 posted on 01/30/2003 11:26:09 AM PST by GingisK
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To: GingisK
"Why would Bush let Tenet keep his job if he ever refused to provide information?"


Very good question and one of the few things I can fault Bush on. Tenet is a holdover from the Clinton era. That should tell you something right there.
31 posted on 01/30/2003 11:30:16 AM PST by txradioguy (Save The Animals! Eat a Libertarian!)
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To: McGruff
Thanks!
32 posted on 01/30/2003 11:30:30 AM PST by Ben Hecks (Support a Democrat-free America/)
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To: Hemingway's Ghost
Please check FReep mail. FReegards
33 posted on 01/30/2003 11:36:32 AM PST by Mustang
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To: txradioguy
Very good question and one of the few things I can fault Bush on. Tenet is a holdover from the Clinton era. That should tell you something right there.

What's worse, W just put Tenet in charge of the new Terrorism Coordination Center he announced during the SOTU speech.

34 posted on 01/30/2003 11:48:40 AM PST by ez ("If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning." - GWB)
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To: txradioguy
There are at least two things very dangerous about the way liberals want to deal with terrorism or proven deadly enemies of this nation: 1) reacting to attacks means the attack happens, then you lob ordinance at them, which doesn't deter them unless you kill them and all their 'off spring', but always after the fact; 2) shagging along, dealing with each attack from a proven enemy by reacting to each attack, leads to the inevitable conclusion by the enemy that a much bigger attack is called for in order to end the exchanges, to defang the terrorists' target, thus we are courting an enormous, nation-ending attack ... and I can name two or three potential 'nation-ending' type attacks, if it came to it, I'll bet most Freepers could.
35 posted on 01/30/2003 11:59:33 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: txradioguy
"...a former top terrorism advisor to President Clinton..."

This could be the individual that not only talked Bill into running for a second term, but put together the "Hillary! For Congress." campaign.

36 posted on 01/30/2003 12:04:07 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: txradioguy; Monitor
Got this posted twice:

Earlier post

Mylroie: Clintonized CIA Blocking Iraq-9/11 Evidence

37 posted on 01/30/2003 12:08:47 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Nuke Saddam!)
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To: doug from upland
"Fire the traitorous bastards!"

I second that. Absolutely unbelievable.

38 posted on 01/30/2003 12:09:21 PM PST by Paulie
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To: beckett
"The American people have a right to see it if their sons and daughters are going to lay down their lives in Iraq."

Their sons and daughters volunteered to be in the military service, and as such, took an oath to follow the orders of their superior officers. The president is not compelled by anything to reveal the details of the information in his possesion, which led him to whatever decisions he's made about Iraq.

These sons and daughters are adults, and made the decision to enlist freely--what minors there are in the Army got parental permission to enlist--and the only recourse left to their parents is prayer. For their safety, and for a swift resolution.

Those people who do not believe that the case has been already made, will more than likely never believe that there is sufficient reason to topple Hussein.

Here's the bottomline question:

Does Saddam Hussein have weapons of mass destruction in his possesion, in violation of UN resolutions?

Saddam says he does not, Bush says he does.

One of them is a liar.

I know who I believe.

"Get it all out, Mr. President, and make your case as convincingly as you can. That's what leadership is all about."

Leadership is about leading, not about justifying your decisions to those being led.

39 posted on 01/30/2003 12:17:52 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Leadership is about leading, not about justifying your decisions to those being led.

Sounds lofty, or possibly macho, but in practice it's meaningless. People --- or at least certainly the American people --- are not puppies, or cannon fodder. Leadership is demonstrating to them by word and deed the worthiness of the cause being pursued.

Bush has two major problems: 1) world opinion, which is not negligible and needs to be addressed with a full diplomatic press, 2) the new doctrine of preemption goes against the American grain. Americans with any sense of history, including, I'm sure, the Bush family themselves, are very queasy about invading a sovereign country before a demonstrable act of aggression has been committed against us or an ally has come under attack. To shrug these concerns off with an "I'm the boss" attitude, as you propose, is not the way this democracy works. As we learned in Vietnam, it's important to have the American people with you in time of war.

The action about to come in Iraq is justified because Saddam is a dangerous maniac and our presence in force right in the middle of Israel's enemies holds out the best chance for a final resolution of that conflict in the near future, a result which, over the course of a decade or so, could have the effect of permanently defanging terrorism worldwide. The first casus belli (Saddam = maniac) is politically mentionable, the second (end of Israel/Arab conflict) unmentionable usually, but most people with any sense have it in mind.

Bush needs to clearly lay out the danger Saddam poses, including all the hard evidence the intelligence agencies possess against him, in order to avoid the political pitfalls which would surely follow if the administration got bogged down justifying the action in terms of Israel/Arab conflict.

40 posted on 01/30/2003 2:03:00 PM PST by beckett
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To: MHGinTN
There's another problem. When the govt doesn't want to admit it's been attacked and covers up the information, the terrorists feel they have to keep upping the ante until it's big enough to be undeniably a terrorist attack. Imagine planning and executing a bomb on an airliner only to find out on the news that it's been attributed to 'electrical problems'.

Also -- to those who are demanding the proof: This is not war by referendum. I don't see why Bushie has to prove or say another damned thing. You'll get your proof after we go in and can hold the WMD up for public display. Course then you'll probably claim it was all a big frame-up.
41 posted on 01/30/2003 2:10:27 PM PST by johnb838 (Bush gets it)
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To: cody32127
the Clintonistas In the CIA are trying to protect a failed legacy

Might they be the same ones that were happy sewing on that damn diversity quilt?.

42 posted on 01/30/2003 2:16:48 PM PST by Diana Rose
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To: beckett
You are suggesting that a leader needs to justify his actions before engaging in them...not so.

The very word "lead" implies that a path is set for others to follow. The worth of the cause is measured after the deed is done.

And it isn't macho to suggest that in an Army, officers are not obligated to discuss their plans with the rank and file, it is reality. Indeed, the directions soldiers receive from their commanding officers are called "orders", not "suggestions".

America has a problem with world oppinion regardless of what any president does. We could appease those who hate us for "meddling" in the affairs of other countries (they hate us because our "meddling" often disrupt theirs), only to be hated by those who would then feel abandoned, and betrayed.

If a drug dealer stands in your street corner, in the path that your kids take on their way to school daily, you will have him removed, even if he hasn't tried to sell them crack yet.

"I'm sure, the Bush family themselves, are very queasy about invading a sovereign country before a demonstrable act of aggression has been committed against us or an ally has come under attack."

I recall Japanese planes attacking Pearl Harbor, I do not recall any German planes joining in...do you?

"The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

"Bush needs to clearly lay out the danger Saddam poses, including all the hard evidence the intelligence agencies possess against him..."

He did a good deal of that in the State of the Union address, and his detractors still said "not enough"...they'll continue to do so in spite of any evidence presented.

43 posted on 01/30/2003 2:29:58 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I recall Japanese planes attacking Pearl Harbor, I do not recall any German planes joining in...do you?

You are aware that Germany declared war on us on Dec. 11, 1941, aren't you? Later that day we declared war on them.

Your post also seems to assume that President Bush is a military leader, and the American people his troops. If you read my post you will see that nowhere do I say that a military officer must divulge tactics to his troops or ask nicely for their compliance with his orders. That would be crazy. But we're not talking about battlefield leadership. We're talking about disclosing casus belli to the people who will pay the bill for that belli, both in cash and in blood. Bush is an elected leader in a democracy. The American people are not his troops. He is fully acountable to them.

Also, although his SOTU address was persuasive, if, as the subject of this thread suggests, he has more evidence than he divulged there, now is the time, before the conflict begins, for the American people to examine it.

44 posted on 01/30/2003 3:03:01 PM PST by beckett
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To: TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!
But President Bush does not have to reveal all intel to convince the whiney leftist liberals out for only themselves and power.

Even if he showed them a picture of OBL getting a Lewinski from Saddam or vice versa, (or both at the same time I suppose) they wouldn't be convinced of ties between Saddam and Al-Qaida.

45 posted on 01/30/2003 4:26:51 PM PST by El Gato
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To: doug from upland
Fire the traitorous bastards!

They are civil servants, you can't fire them. Well you can, but it takes longer than the 8 years a President has in office to do the job.

46 posted on 01/30/2003 4:28:58 PM PST by El Gato
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To: webstersII
Do anyone really think that Bush couldn't get the CIA information if he wanted it?

Read more closely, he's got the information, the CIA is just opposing releasing it. POTUS, will make the final decision, with adice from the Veep, and Condi. He'll get advice from Rummy and I suppose that Clintonista at CIA too.

From his CIA bio:

George John Tenet was sworn in as Director of Central Intelligence on 11 July 1997 following a unanimous vote by both the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and the full Senate. In this position he heads the Intelligence Community (all foreign intelligence agencies of the United States) and directs the Central Intelligence Agency.

Mr. Tenet served as the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, having been confirmed in that position in July 1995. Following the departure of John Deutch in December 1996, he served as Acting Director.

Mr. Tenet previously served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Intelligence Programs at the National Security Council. While at the NSC, he coordinated Presidential Decision Directives on ''Intelligence Priorities,'' ''Security Policy Coordination,'' ''US Counterintelligence Effectiveness,'' and ''US Policy on Remote Sensing Space Capabilities.'' He also was responsible for coordinating all interagency activities concerning covert action.

Prior to serving at the National Security Council, he served on President Clinton's national security transition team. In this capacity, he coordinated the evaluation of the US Intelligence Community. Mr. Tenet also served as Staff Director of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for over four years under the chairmanship of Senator David Boren. In this capacity he was responsible for coordinating all of the Committee's oversight and legislative activities including the strengthening of covert action reporting requirements, the creation of a statutory Inspector General at CIA, and the introduction of comprehensive legislation to reorganize US intelligence.

Prior to his appointment as Staff Director, Mr. Tenet directed the Committee's oversight of all arms control negotiations between the Soviet Union and the United States, culminating in the preparation of a report to the US Senate on ``The Ability of US Intelligence to Monitor the Intermediate Nuclear Force Treaty.'' Mr. Tenet came to the Committee in August of 1985, as designee to the Vice Chairman, Senator Patrick Leahy, after working three years on the staff of Senator John Heinz as both a legislative assistant covering national security and energy issues and as legislative director.

Mr. Tenet holds a B.S.F.S. from the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service and an M.I.A. from the School of International Affairs at Columbia University.

BTW, the DCI (Tenet) can be fired, he is political appointee, not a civil servant!

47 posted on 01/30/2003 4:38:56 PM PST by El Gato
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To: ken5050
I've read it three times, and I STILL can't figure out who'se got the ax to grind, or who's trying to screw whom?

Classic dis-info.......

48 posted on 01/30/2003 4:44:09 PM PST by WhiteGuy
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I recall Japanese planes attacking Pearl Harbor, I do not recall any German planes joining in...do you?

Well no, but there was the little matter of the "Thousand Year Reich" declaring war on the US right after 7 December, in fulfillment of their treaty with Japan and Italy, and then promptly setting off to sink every ship on our Eastern Seaboard and in the Gulf of Mexico that they could get a submarine close to. That was a lot of them, even though they were somewhat short of subs at that point, it was "target rich environment"

49 posted on 01/30/2003 4:46:09 PM PST by El Gato
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To: txradioguy
Leahey was removed from the Senate Intelligence Comittee and censured by the Senate for allowing an NBC reporter to read a classified doccument critical of Reagan's handling of the Noreiga regime. The comittee decided not to release it but Leahey hated Reagan and loved Noreiga so much he revealed Intel to a reporter who in turn reported on what he saw. That's why Leahey is referred to as "Senator Depends" or "Leakey" Leahey.

Interesting that CIA director Tenet once worked for Leahey as staff of that same committee.

50 posted on 01/30/2003 4:47:32 PM PST by El Gato
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