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What is Fascism?
Couples Company ^

Posted on 01/30/2003 7:00:27 PM PST by John Lenin

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To: JoeA
Yeah but FDR didn't go nearly as far towards communism as he could have. He was virtual dictator of the US remember. The other branches basically did as he told them to.
61 posted on 01/30/2003 11:29:15 PM PST by weikel
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To: CobaltBlue
In plain English, one could say that the Germans hated and feared the Soviets and thought Hitler would be a good way of preventing a Communist/Socialist takeover of Germany.

Ok. This doesn't answer the issue I raised, which was about the nonsensicality of a statement like " measure taken by the bourgeoisie to forestall proletarian revolution" in a society like ours, where there's no clear delineation between "bourgeoisie" and "proletarian". But I don't disagree with what you say.

62 posted on 01/30/2003 11:30:03 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: weikel
Well I'm not saying that FDR was a socialist, he was too patrician for that. Although many of his actions are suspect, especially with the benefit of hindisght. My point is that Hopkins was an active, possibly communist, influence on FDR.
63 posted on 01/30/2003 11:35:15 PM PST by JoeA
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To: JoeA
Oh they had influence over him. But he was probably more independent then the international would have liked. Woodrow Wilson and Jimmy Carter on the other hand took their direct marching orders from communist handlers( not sure who it was with Carter Wilson's handler was "Colonel" Edward Mandell House).
64 posted on 01/30/2003 11:37:39 PM PST by weikel
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To: weikel
Yes, I know about House. Carter... wasn't Ramsey Clark in the administration?
65 posted on 01/30/2003 11:41:08 PM PST by JoeA
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To: JoeA
With Carter it could have been a lot of people. Be interesting to see if any records of who House was working with. You find the associates of House and you find the top guys of the international.
66 posted on 01/30/2003 11:45:03 PM PST by weikel
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To: tiki
["bourgeois", "proletarian"] Though they've never been a part of my everyday vocabulary, I learned those terms in world history.

Congratulations. So did I. We all did. (For some reason it's deemed quite important to teach all American kids about Marxist terms and assumptions.)

And that's where these terms belong: in history. They have little relevance for our society, today, not much more than does the term "centurion" or "vassal".

Sure, I was taught that "proletarian" meant "working class" while "bourgeois" meant "middle class". I never fully understood this though. The problem is that in America, generally speaking, our "middle class" works, and our working class enjoys a "middle class" lifestyle. So it just doesn't compute. I tried to understand those terms, and I tried to read Marx and all, but something just didn't compute.

But it still goes on: teacher writes "proletarian = working class, bourgeois = middle class" on the chalkboard and 95% of the kids nod their heads so that they seem smart. Lesson learned. Well, what can I say, I wasn't one of them. That's because I actually tried to think about what these definitions meant, and I realized that they were nonsense in our society. Grouping hordes of people into large, vaguely-defined, stereotypical categories so as to perform simplistic analyses on them while ignoring individuals is really more of a 19th century kinda thing anyway. I was never comfortable with the whole exercise myself.

67 posted on 01/30/2003 11:50:52 PM PST by Dr. Frank fan
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To: weikel
Google search returns 1,100 entries for colonel House. There's a Yale chronology (his alumnus) but it's fairly sanitary.
68 posted on 01/30/2003 11:57:56 PM PST by JoeA
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To: John Lenin
Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin.

HorseHillary! Fascism is the marriage of communism and capitalism. It is a return to the feudal system,where a monied elite are the only ones truly free and the rest of the population are serfs. Bush-1 called it "The New World Order". Bubba-1 called it "The Third Way". Others refer to it as a "One World Government". What it truly amounts to is "Corporate Communism".

69 posted on 01/31/2003 12:26:25 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Dr. Frank
(I wonder if the author is an American). For example, a sentence like

"Fascism is an extreme measure taken by the bourgeoisie to forestall proletarian revolution;"

He is just another commie,who most likely thinks that any system other than Marxism is Fascism.

70 posted on 01/31/2003 12:29:34 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: The Duke
where fascism was described basically as an "unholy alliance between government and big business", in which individuals own the business, but government skims off all the profits.

Duke,what you described is "classical fascism". The modern version we (or our children) will end up suffering under will flip-flop classical fascism. The new fascism will have the corporations at the top,and the politicians will be their employees and PR agents. Look to China for a prime example of how this will work,and look at WHO from the US is in business with the fascists who run China. For instance,remember back in the old days when Wal-Mart advertised "American made"? Notice how it is damn near impossible to find anything for sale at Wal-Mart now that wasn't made in China? Did you know that Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors of Wal-Mart before her husband was elected president,and she only resigned because she had to when they moved into the White House? Now think back to when the Chinese goods started swamping Wal-Mart and other American stores. Wal-Mart was one of the first to "go Chinese" in a big way,almost like they had a sweetheart deal with the fascists who own all the corporations in China,huh? Also please note that Diane FineSwine's hubby is in business with these same fascists,and is most likely the ones who tipped them off about the BATF raid on their leased warehouses in San Diego that held all the fully-automatic AK-47's they had smuggled into the country.

Also take note that Jorge Ali Bubba Bush has a uncle who lives in China,and is bestest buddies and business partners with these same fascists.

I think it is already safe to say that corporations are already in a position where they dictate government policy,and that it will only get more brazen in the future. Our politicians are no longer bought and sold,they are now minority stockholders.

71 posted on 01/31/2003 12:40:05 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: John Lenin
I was always under the impression that fascism was a worker movement against the CEO/business class.

It is the exact opposite. Only "favored" citizens/employees get the best jobs,go to the best schools,and live in the best neighborhoods. It is a top-down system that rewards lackeys and punishes people who try to be independent.

72 posted on 01/31/2003 12:43:26 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: DAnconia55
Perhaps Bush can stop it.

ROFLMAO! As a member in good standing of one of the elitist ruling families who has a uncle in business with the fascists that own/run China,I kinda doubt he has any interest in trying.

73 posted on 01/31/2003 12:50:16 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Centurion2000
No communist or fascist state has survived longer than 100 years.

Really? Ever heard of the feudal system?

74 posted on 01/31/2003 12:51:39 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: JoeA
This thread is a good place to point out that capitalism is a derogatory term coined by marxists. The real name for capitalism is "economic freedom". It is strange how we have embraced this term. It is a bit like embracing the term "honky" as a name for all white people.

75 posted on 01/31/2003 12:53:02 AM PST by LloydofDSS
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To: xm177e2
It just doesn't resemble traditional fascism at all.

It's not traditional fascism. The Corporations got tired of being second-rate powers who had to bow to the politicans,so they just bought them out with stock options and employment for their relatives. Fascism has now evolved to where the Corporations are the ones telling the politicans what to do.

76 posted on 01/31/2003 12:54:11 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: UnBlinkingEye
Let our rabid political class lead the charge into war, politicians first, pundits second, their families third.

Sounds good to me!

77 posted on 01/31/2003 12:55:48 AM PST by sneakypete
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To: Centurion2000
"No communist or fascist state has survived longer than 100 years."

I believe that the US is now a quasi-fascist state. The only reason that it survives in the US is that the citizens are armed, and that right is supposedly protected by the Constitution.

As more and more laws regulating and controlling firearms ( and other aspects of our everyday existence) appear, the US will move ever closer to the classical definition of Fascism. At some point, this movement will spill over into open conflict.

78 posted on 01/31/2003 1:28:19 AM PST by wcbtinman
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To: John Lenin
John Lenin asks:   "How many tactics of the facist movement are they using right now?"

Depends on whether you want to put in credence in something so obviously written by some left-wing college professor. Here's your first clue from the text:

The 7 conditions that foster and fuel fascism are:

  1. The stripping of rights and wealth...[from] intellectuals...as this [is] the group with the means, intelligence and ability to stop fascism if given the opportunity.
The "intellectuals" will save us from fascism?

LOL, do you want me to let you in on one of the dirty little secrets you learn when you've taken too many college courses in psychology? It is the secret of the "F scale" test. This is a test that is designed to measure a person's readiness to adopt fascist ideologies.

And guess who it is that traditionally scores the highest in this test? Is it the "rural lower middle class"? Is it the hard-hat red-necks? Is the "have-nots"? Why no, it is the college educated intellectual. In fact test results for decades have shown a strong correlation between both IQ and educational level to one's degree of willingness to accept fascism (hence its euphemistic name: The "F scale").

The farther you've gone in school, the more likely it is, that you would NOT rebel under a fascist system of government. Think about it. Doesn't your own life experience confirm what this test tells us? Where is it that we see, not just the acceptance of a curtailment of free speech rights, but the whole hearted endorsement of such fascist PC practices. Why, of course, it is on college campuses.

Years ago I had an opportunity to discuss this with a fellow whose job it had been to interrogate Waffen SS officers (Colonel and above) after WW II. He said that his experience showed him exactly the same thing that the F scale tests show. He said that the image of the SS officer as some under-educated, low IQ, brut recruited from the lower classes of society was completely in error. He told me that the worst of the worst, were highly educated and quite intelligent men.

The intellectuals will save us from fascism? Not likely! They will be the ones organizing and building the gas chambers.

--Boot Hill

79 posted on 01/31/2003 3:07:37 AM PST by Boot Hill (February 1st)
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To: John Lenin
"I think the demoRATS are using the Mein Kampf and Facsim playbook to a T. How many tactics of the facist movement are they using right now ? I'd say almost all of them." Agree and don't forget one of their favorites as well, Karl Marx.

They take the 'best' from the worst and roll it up into their 'neutralizing' rhetoric.

Good post!

80 posted on 01/31/2003 4:55:53 AM PST by cricket
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