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Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance
Reuters ^ | 2.1.03

Posted on 02/01/2003 11:20:11 AM PST by mhking

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To: Chad Fairbanks
I totally agree with that Freeper that we have lost a measure of our protection and blessing due to SIN, which I define almost exclusively as ***ABORTION*** on a mass scale. Between 700,000 and 1.5 million killed a year for decades.

The killing of millions upon millions of innocent lives that far surpasses Germany's extermination capacity in WW2 is not going to gain us ANY blessings, protection or favor by GOD! This is no secret! Nobody, despite their pride can deny this fact.

The Freeper did have a valid Christian point that perhaps some stuff happens now that we avoided before with God's umbrella of protection. This is not an unheard of concept and is spoken about all the time throughout the Christian faiths in this country.

The concept of God's "Umbrella of protection" was first presented to me in Church when I was a very young child of perhaps 5 years old, not by the Taliban.

It is NOT unheard of for Satan (In this case Iraq who worships the god of the moon, Allah), to be able to point out our "great sins".
When other evil nations point out our own horrible sin of mass abortion, the point is not "wrong" because the source was evil.
Neither does it mean that a nation that is evil on a grand scale will triumph over a good nation with a sinful anchor around it's foot that drags it down.

The Freeper had true point to make though.
What are we being left open for by having major sins in our country? I added ABORTION, because that is THE MAJOR sin that would be the catalyst for the removal of protection.

Nobody I know of though suggested God made this disaster happen except the evil ones in IRAQ.

Yes, when you suggest I would say God "CAUSED" this, you are totally full-of-it.

On the other hand there is a valid religious issue as to what we are being left wide open for if we lose God's protection? It is natural that when any national disaster hits, many religious folks are left to wonder if this would have been avoided by us being more faithful to God.
Pondering this does not suggest that either the other Freeper or I think GOD CAUSED THIS TO HAPPEN. That is in very bad form by you.
501 posted on 02/02/2003 12:58:51 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: mhking
To dispell a myth that is growing in here, God wouldn't abandon America because of our supporting of Israel, quite the opposite. Read the book of Revelations, Israel is still God's chosen people. If anything God is blessing us for our support.

Now onto Saddam...
keep digging that hole, keep digging, cause soon it's gonna be your grave.
502 posted on 02/02/2003 1:01:42 PM PST by Blue Scourge
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To: A CA Guy
So what you appear to be saying is that your original post was a mistake, correct?
503 posted on 02/02/2003 1:12:21 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's really quite frightening.)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I am saying my original response was about the concept of there being a "Umbrella of Protection from God". I then pointed out that ***Abortion*** was a problem and you took all that to mean that I said "God killed all the astronauts" which was never MY view.

Yes, your perception of my response was a complete mistake..totally correct. Have a good day.
504 posted on 02/02/2003 1:26:55 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: B-Chan
Beautiful poster! Thanks
505 posted on 02/02/2003 1:33:50 PM PST by CARepubGal (Deus Vult)
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To: A CA Guy; Chad Fairbanks
Your God is abusive. Read Job (actually pull your thick head out of your fourth point of contact before reading): God does not cause misery. That is the guy with the horns (Satan)'s job. Ascribing blame to God for these horrid events is making the devil very happy.
506 posted on 02/02/2003 1:50:29 PM PST by CARepubGal (Deus Vult)
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To: A CA Guy
Backpedal all you like. It doesn't change the context of your original post. Context is everything.
507 posted on 02/02/2003 2:11:26 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's really quite frightening.)
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To: CARepubGal; Chad Fairbanks
That is outrageous, you obviously didn't read the post at all or lack capacity for it's comprehension. You only missed the point of the post by a galaxy or so.

I dare you to find in #501 where it was said God killed those astronauts?

The only thing in #501 along those lines you will find will be the following:
"Nobody I know of though suggested God made this disaster happen except the evil ones in IRAQ."

Of course the Devil is the one who instigates the bad stuff, I agree 100%.

Read the post again and if you have trouble I will explain it all for you.

I can also paraphrase the whole story of Job. God by his will didn't lift a finger to help Job with the devil in that challenge and Job lost all of his first family. God said Job was so faithful that the devil could do anything short of taking his like and he would still remain loyal to God and Job proved God right.

That does make a point that God can intervene or not where he wants to.

That was also part of the thinking regarding the religious concept of the "Umbrella of Protection by God".

Go back and read the whole post again and see if you can figure it out.
Also try and find where I say God did it, because it's not there and I would love to see where you think that was said.
508 posted on 02/02/2003 2:29:28 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
I backpedal from nothing.

I was in total context regarding "The umbrella of God's protection".

Your failure to comprehend the issue is not my fault. I just hope you don't do that with your GOP endeavors as well.
509 posted on 02/02/2003 2:39:36 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
taking his LIFE, not like... that was a typo.
510 posted on 02/02/2003 2:41:22 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: mhking
Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance

The Muslim Mindset is based on the belief that Islam is right because Islam has triumphed. This worked well when they were recapturing the cosmopolitan cities of the Middle East from Roman occupation. It began to falter when they attempted incursions into Europe and were repeatedly repulsed despite superior numbers and technology. And for the past five centuries, it's been one continuous series of humiliations at the hands of the Christian West, the Jewish Israelis, the Hindu East, the Communist North -- well, come to think of it, at the hands of just about everybody.

Christianity was founded by martyrs and hardened in the catacombs of Rome. It can survive persecution. Islam was founded by a rich merchant and even today its most fundamentalist sect is sustained by the oil-rich aristocracy of Saudi Arabia. Christianity can survive persecution and poverty. Islam can't. Even though its adherents are among the poorest people on Earth, it is essentially a rich man's religion -- invented and perpetuated by rich men as an opiate for their subjugated peoples.

Hence, Islamists will seize on anything as 'proof' that Christianity is in collapse. But they need to look around at the decrepit state of the Islamic world, and they will see what is truly in collapse. There are no Islamic space shuttles for God to 'punish' -- which tells you all you need to know about the relative prosperities of the Christian versus Islamic worlds.

511 posted on 02/02/2003 2:54:58 PM PST by 537 Votes
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To: wasp69
I understand that you post this as a rant, and you are
usually more subtle. I wish we could say the same
about them.
512 posted on 02/02/2003 2:55:02 PM PST by perfect stranger (I like to leave this area blank.)
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To: A CA Guy
I totally agree with that Freeper that we have lost a measure of our protection and blessing due to SIN, which I define almost exclusively as ***ABORTION*** on a mass scale. Between 700,000 and 1.5 million killed a year for decades.

Why do you define sin "almost exclusively as ***ABORTION***"?

God doesn't.

Bottom line is you agreed with someone who came on a thread about a national tragedy and started spouting stuff on this topic of God's "umbrella of protection" having been removed, suggesting that abortion was the reason it has been taken away (as if you know). And you still have not explained why, in your mind, national tragedies occurred prior to Roe vs. Wade. (Probably because it blows your theory out of the water.)

You've got a lot of nerve calling someone else's form "bad".

513 posted on 02/02/2003 4:36:07 PM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet (Eleven. Exactly. One louder.)
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To: ALS
what was post 463? I just have the red 'X'
514 posted on 02/02/2003 5:02:56 PM PST by freedumb2003 (God bless and keep the astonauts' families - the astronauts are already with Him.)
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To: freedumb2003
The website is momentarily down, but's animation of Iraq being nuked....
515 posted on 02/02/2003 5:12:50 PM PST by ALS
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To: CARepubGal
I'm glad you liked it. Please feel free to copy it to your hard disk and use it wherever.
516 posted on 02/02/2003 6:01:39 PM PST by B-Chan (IN MEMORIAM Space Shuttle Columbia and crew 2003.02.01)
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To: A CA Guy
Blah blah blah
517 posted on 02/02/2003 6:07:51 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks (We've got Armadillos in our trousers. It's really quite frightening.)
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To: A CA Guy
The concept that God lifted HIS protection from the US is a bit presumptuous. Yes, abortion is murder (you are preaching to the choir here you know) but to imply that the terrorist attacks on 9/11/01 and the loss of the shuttle were somehow caused by the Lord is contradictory to the teachings of Jesus and the prophets up to Revelations. The Book of Mormon taught that kind of garbage (I pray sincerely you are not part of that cult). God allows bad things to happen as part of a much larger plan. We see a small portion of God's work. He grieves sincerely but does not want bad things to happen. Abortion is totally irrelevant to the shuttle exploding to bits upon landing. I would be happy to discuss the topic somewhere else when emotions are less stirred up by a large scale tragic event.

FReegards!
518 posted on 02/02/2003 6:56:58 PM PST by CARepubGal (Deus Vult from a proud VWRC member!)
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To: mhking
"Iraqis Call Shuttle Disaster God's Vengeance

Sat February 1, 2003 02:08 PM ET
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Immediate popular reaction in Baghdad on Saturday to the loss of the U.S. space shuttle Columbia and its seven-member crew -- including the first Israeli in space -- was that its was God's retribution on Americans. "We are happy that it broke up," government employee Abdul Jabbar al-Quraishi said.

"God wants to show that his might is greater than the Americans. They have encroached on our country. God is avenging us," he said.

Car mechanic Mohammed Jaber al-Tamini noted Israeli air force Colonel Ilan Ramon was among the dead when the shuttle broke up shortly before its return to earth.

"Israel launched an aggression on us when it raided our nuclear reactor without any reason (in 1981), now time has come and God has retaliated to their aggression," Tamini said."

***



AL-QURAISHI is basically a Saudi name. Is this a common name in Iraq, too?
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22AL-QURAISHI%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0

Is AL-TAMINI an Iraqi name? I know there's a popular Palestinian by the nae of Nader AL-TAMINI. Here's a little snippet from MEMRI.org - Special Dispatch Series No.245 on July 23, 2001: "The Final Word for Palestinians Callers
Towards the end of the program, two calls were taken from Palestinians who addressed some of the points raised thus far on the broadcast.

The first was Nader Tamimi, the Mufti of the Palestinian Liberation Army, who lives in Jordan. Tamimi explained that "the Jews have a sadistic mentality derived from the Torah which they have distorted as saying that man is 'a creature born from the seed of a horse.' The Torah says that all peoples that are not Jews must be killed, as it is said in the book of Deuteronomy when they entered Jericho: 'They slaughtered all of the residents of the city: Men, women, children and old people, even the cattle, sheep and asses, they burned the city, with everything in it.' Is this not what happens now in Palestine?…"

"Now, I would like to talk about the rulers. None of the rulers in the Arab world were elected… they robbed the leadership and do not represent the will of the people. Therefore, they bring religious clerics who are in fact, clerics of the regimes…"

"Those who ruled that the martyrdom operations are suicide have gone against the word of Allah… wedding ceremonies in Palestine go straight from the ground to Heaven. Every day there are hundreds of such ceremonies [note: according to Islamic theology, a martyr is rewarded among other rewards with 72 brides in Heaven]."

"I, the Mufti of those forces fighting in Palestine, say to them: your hand is blessed, brothers, when you kill; your hand is blessed, mother, who nurses this child who will one day become a martyr; your hands are blessed when you kill the enemy, blessed be you in Heaven, with the prophet Muhammad..."

"Regarding scums like this [Bu-Walid], who want to bind the hands of the people – they can go to hell. What have the martyrdom operations achieved so far? They have removed NATO from Lebanon [sic.], removed the American forces from East Saudi Arabia, removed the American forces from Somalia."

"My blessings to those who carried out the [USS] Cole operation; and it should be known that 'Cole' was the greatest product of the American mind, and it was destroyed by two people only. The two prayed to Allah, penetrated this destroyer, and sent all of its passengers to Hell. This scared the US, and they have now urged the region's leaders and the religious clerics to prohibit martyrdom operations. But this will never happen, because this nation will fight until it liberates Palestine… We say to all those people [like Bu-Walid]: Just wait… I think that he is actually a Jew, after all, in the Maghreb there are many Jews."" -end snippet.
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP24501

MEMRI.org Video-Inerview: "AN INTERVIEW OF THE COLONEL NADER AL-TAMINI, MUFTI OF THE PALESTINIAN ARMY OF RELEASE" (May 7, 2002)
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://memri.org/french/video/&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522AL-TAMINI%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG
519 posted on 02/02/2003 9:28:23 PM PST by Cindy
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To: CARepubGal
Again, where do you find I said any of the bad things were from God. That was never said and you are creating and addressing an issue of your own invention.

God did not create 9-11 or the shuttle disaster.

This is like me writing "the sky is blue with white clouds" and you write back I said "I love pizza with mints on it".
You are addressing something never said, then proclaiming me a member of a cult due to your lack of understanding of what was being discussed.

Either you can't comprehend the topic or are only reading bits of posts and drawing totally wrong conclusions without all the information.

The concept mentioned was this......................

That when these bad things happen, it brings to mind for many Christians (not referring to Mormons) that God is faithful to his people who follow His will and laws. In my old private school days we would call it "God's umbrella of protection" as a simple way of explaining the concept.

It doesn't mean that someone's very Christian dad might not die from murder tomorrow, it just means that over-all we are either with or against God in following His laws. He loves and protects nations of people as a whole if we are true to Him.

Major concept part two......................
What many Christians are wondering is if the sin of abortion is denying us God's protection at times. Not meaning that God makes bad things happen. Nobody is saying God caused bad stuff, but God has the choice to stop as much of the bad stuff as He desires according to His will.

When we mock God with our worshiping the false god of humanism and by ignoring the murder of babies as an approved law of our land, we are putting our relationship with God at some risk.
Many wonder how many times have big events happened where God might of intervened on our behalf if not for our mass abortions?
Wondering if God might have put a hand out to protect us from some things (which He can do at any time) does not mean he creates bad things against us. It means he has the choice to shield us if He wishes.

As another example, the whole concept of the rapture is that at some time without warning, His faithful will disappear from earth in the blink of an eye and go with God. The rest of the earth will be left down here to suffer with the anti-Christ. So God spares His faithful.

The problem is I am talking about a whole different issue than you are responding to and it's is serious to not get the point right because you are making slanderous accusations over your lack of understanding of the issue. Never have I said God created 9-11 or this disaster in space.
For you to suggest such a thing to me is like me calling you a Nazi when you might talk about baking cookies in your oven.

The most important thing you said is that this is a discussion on the heals of a whole group of our heroes dying while trying to come back home and it is a national disaster.
I do not think God had anything to do with creating that disaster. I do think we ALL share the loss of these people and have great sympathy for their families.
I pray to God He has these heroes with Him now and that God grants their families the strength to carry on without these very important loved ones.
Thank you for your post and FReegards right back at you.
520 posted on 02/02/2003 11:59:39 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: Chad Fairbanks
Probably the most rational thing you have said that we can agree on... LOL
521 posted on 02/03/2003 12:20:26 AM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: theFIRMbss
I often wonder why a popular religion like that choose to provoke so much hate towards innocent people. How could a "God" send vengeance towards innocent scientists who work to better humen lives and how could a "God" send killers of innocent people to heaven and yet millions (or billions) of its belivers actually believe "it" wholeheatedly.
522 posted on 02/04/2003 11:48:44 AM PST by passion
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