Skip to comments.America will continue to bleed jobs
Posted on 02/01/2003 11:27:51 PM PST by FightingForFreedom
Wages will not equalize between U.S. and foreign countries for a very long time, if ever. The problem is supply differences. The 100 million or so American workers are vastly outnumbered by the potential number of Chinese, Indian, and other developing nation's manufacturing and knowledge workers. The standard of living differential is also too great. The balancing act for U.S. and multi-national businesses that are outsourcing our jobs is to make sure they don't kill the golden goose (the American consumer) before they've generated an even bigger goose to take to slaughter in China, India, and other targeted markets. Remember, producing cheaply means nothing if there's nobody to buy the products. And no one has been as well-trained as the American consumer to buy, buy, buy, no matter how much in debt one becomes! As a software engineer, I've seen this problem coming for at least 5 years now, but it was well masked by the artificial high-tech bubble through March 2000. I'm not sure that there is an answer at this point -- the genie is out of the bag, so to speak. Once one company in an industry has convinced the govt to open a market in one undesirable country or other, all other companies with which it competes are forced to do the same. Bottling up the genie is notoriously difficult.
Fact ... if by " culturally, the old USSSR did NOT have pornographic T.V. and movies . Neither did it have " rap ", Brittany Spear and other 1/2 naked, gyrating kids doing XXX concerts. What it had, is what you want ; to whit ...a job for everyone ( even if they were only " make work ones ), free schooling through college, free health care ,housing for everyone, and loads and loads of protectionism. Did that make for a heallthy, profitable, happy society ? NO !
Historically, in the nonrevisionistic, factual, history of this nation, jobs have come and gone, American workers have been displaced by immigrants , and they just found something else to do, or starved.
You talk about the deterioration of our standard of living. You don't know history, you don't know anything about economics, and you know even LESS about the standard of living, in your own country, than someone from some other nation does ! Just today, in the N.Y. Post, there was an entire page article, about the living standards of today and just 30 years ago. More people have telephones, T.V.s, VCR, two story houses, 2 1/2 bathrooms, or more, in their homes, and on and on and on. If opne looks back farther, say 50 or 60 years, the differences, for the BETTER, are remarkable and astounding.
Tell me, should the government of the USA made certain that the whaling industry didn't go out of business ? How about bakellite ? Would you prefer to use a coal/ wood stove to cook on, a crank phone , a washboard to clean your clothes on ? NO ? Why not ? Those folks lost their jobs.
Don't forget the sliderule industry (remember those?). It has been completely wiped out. What a shame.
I'm glad for your barber. I wonder if she has seen the same thing coming, although I guess it depends on where you live. It's worse in Houston because of the many illegals there and all the legal immigrants who are willing to work for very little.
It turns out that just 4 categories out of a few dozen, Clothing, Oil & Energy, Automobiles, and Electronic commodities such as TV's and VCR's, accounted for some $370 Billion of a $411 Billion trade deficit last year. Oil and natural gas deficits are a sign of a very strong economy, not a weak one. It would be one thing if Americans were willing to pay $15 for a pair of underwear and $25 for a t-shirt but they are not. Ditto for low value added electronic commodities which will never be made here, and lets hope they won't since that would mean we would be a 2nd world country.
Certainly, we could benefit to export more than the $277 million that we did of automobiles but the $150 Billion we imported was again, a sign of strength. More to the point, while our jobs and pay were supposedly melting away, our exports more than doubled and imports almost tripled in the last 10 years. If anything, these figures show that the rest of the world is just too damn poor for their own good.
Where are the old knife grinders ? How about the vanishing Chinese laundries ? ;^)
But fortunately is as relevent as buchanan is himself.
Yep we can save alot of money by replacing protection with globalization. Look at what we're paying for the border patrol, open borders don't need gurads. Same with an army, one world order all one country no need for protectionism. We could fire most of those congressmen and senators, the UN can replace them. Globalization is good just ask Fidel or Hillary. Who would want a government to protect it's citizens. I know those darn americans built a pretty good country with fair trade, but free trade is better for them and the rest of the socialist world, they just don't know it. Darn selfish capitalist, elimate the american government and we can all be better off just like walter said.
It's a small world after all..........</global bs>
You're a great addition to FR; haven't seen you before. Welcome...this place needs more people like YOU , who think and don't " feel ". Your knowledge is refreshing; especially on this thread. :-)
That assumes that the segment of the population that purports to be 37k/yr better off does not experience immediate downward pressure on product prices because another competitor did the same thing and is ready to undercut the going rate. Static analysis fails to consider the potential of deflation, additional business failures and additional unemployment. The WalMart effect on small businesses is a continuing example in the retail space.
Not correct. This country was built on productivity and trade, but not "free trade" (especially not as "free trade" is used of late).
Tariffs and duties funded the government when it was still within its Constitutional restraints. There was none of the interference from NGOs and little from government regulators, that American businesses and workers endure today. Globalists today shun the idea of tariffs, in favor of over-taxing the productivity of American workers and further stifle homegrown ingenuity and effort with burdomsome regulation and outright prohibition.
The economic view of globalism and "free trade" is myopic because it ignores the second basic rule of Economics: "Second effects count."
Displacing employed Americans with offshore or imported labor will reduce the cost of production, but those savings will be more than offset by the lingering damage to the national economy. Any beginning economics student would be able to list the benefits and detriments of offshore and imported labor, taking into account the decline of exported manufactured goods and extracted natural resources, and trade deficits of goods and services, and would be able to project the likely resulting trends. The conclusion would be, IMO, that America is within a decade of third-world deprivation and/or a full-scale civil war.
The people making their short-term millions now had better plan for their retirement somewhere else, because America is not going to be a pretty place to live.
What damage are you talking about? What damage? Why is it lingering? Or do you mean unidentifiable?
Not as big a shame as it would be for me to have to pay you in exchange for something I don't value.
First of all, WHY are you buy nonstick pans ? Anyone who is a good cook / baker ( and yes, I am ! ) , knows that you get superior results from NONCOATED pans, which are " seasoned " by repeated use. Learn how to cook and buy something more expensive; it'll last longer.
Your sheets fall apart ? What are YOU buying ? My daughter has bought some bedding from Bed Bath and Beyond and it's still perfect... after 5 years of constant washings / being sent to the laundry. Want something that will REALLY last ? Cough up the money ( yes, they ARE expensive ) for Irish linen sheets. They'll outlast you and your chjildren and their children. Too expensive ? Okay, then buy some Wamsutta ( yes dear, an AMERICAN company )sheets, that are at least 250 count and 100% cotten percale. They need to be washed and starched and ironed; however, they'll last at least 10 years.
Your phones break after SIX months ? WHAT ARE YOU BUYING ? And here I was complaining, that our phones break after three years, or so. LOL
The problem is, that no matter how many facts we post, these people are so blinded by abject stupidity and " feelings ", that they refuse to believe the truth.
Pity the poor scribes and then the priests, who wrote books by hand, why don't you ? What about the whalers and their families and the men who built whaling vessels and whale oil lamp makers and sellers and corset makers and the people who used to manufacture those little brushed that women used to put on cake mascarra ?
Gee, I keep coming up with similarities to the old Soviet Union way of life.
Nope, in the old Soviet Union, people were assigned apartments, the prices wre kept down, and they were dreadful for most people.
Enjoyed it, even if we didn't make a dent in any thick skulls. Over and Out.
That's the flip side of ignoring the multiplier effect of money in an economy.
The "static analysis" or zero-sum economics was traditionally the realm of liberals, wherein the only way for one person to make money was to take it from someone else. It appears the globalist neo-cons have adopted a similar theory regarding labor costs, seeing only the short-term benefits, while ignoring or rejecting the long-term negative effects on an increasingly consumer-based economy.
All Company C employees are now unemployed. One employee each from Company A and B are unemployed. Company A and B have cut gross revenues in half (assuming the lower price for a similar commodity didn't expand the market). There is a net decrease in GDP from Companies A, B and C. There is also less money paid to employees in the local economy.
Outsourcing is wonderful as a means to reduce consumer prices. At the same time consumer prices are being reduced, the number of consumers with disposable income is also being reduced.
I live in a small town where many large companies with high salary jobs have opted to close. The housing market is depressed with over 600 large homes on the market. Small businesses are closing at the rate of about 25 each month...no customers. I saw a small clock shop at the mall this evening. They were packing up inventory. The rent of $1170/month was too high for the available traffic. The floor space was about 50 ft across the front by 60 ft deep.
I still have a viable job in the software industry because I know how to take my skill set and devise methods to save a business lots of money. I do this only on condition of an NDA that prevents the business from stealing my concept and passing it to some offshore shop. The idea is the money saver for the business. In exchange, I expect to be paid for the value of the savings realized by that exchange of intellectual property. In general, that means I get the implementation business. The current practice seems to be oriented to stealing the intellectual property that provides the cost savings, then farming out the implementation to offshore workers. That is theft. The offshore workers don't have the advantage of a first hand presence to spot the cost savings. W.C. Fields had it right, "Never give a sucker an even break and never smarten up a chump." You must guard your intellectual property and ensure that you are paid for it.
I am aware there was no pornography in the Old Soviet Union, and no Britney Spears or rap either, as those things weren't around yet, although pornography was underground where it should have stayed.
I think there are similarities in that our society and media is becoming more restrictive (except morally of course), freedom of speech is dying out, products have become junk, housing is becoming unaffordable, people are losing their connection to God, among other things.
The GOP doesn't like to criticize business. They want to be a friend to business. That is why you will find very few Republicans willing to say to business owners, "Stop hiring immigrant labor for $4/hr. Hire Americans and pay them the federal wage. Don't be surprised if they do not stick around more than a few months without med/dental and 401K".
Well you'd be stupid to do such a thing, now wouldn't you?
Hey, as a kid in 70's and 80's, there was only 1 tv in our house. Today, I think that means you are poor. There was also 1 car, which mom and dad worked out use of. Just a little schedule jostling, and things ran smoothly. You are really poor if you only have 1 car to many nowadays.
What people classify as poor today is not even close to real poverty. Not being able to buy your kid a laptop is not poor. It's normal.
Yeah, but most banks now put on many fees, unless you go the ATM route. Plus, there are only ever 2 working at the same time.