America will continue to bleed jobs

[FightingForFreedom]

Wages will not equalize between U.S. and foreign countries for a very long time, if ever. The problem is supply differences. The 100 million or so American workers are vastly outnumbered by the potential number of Chinese, Indian, and other developing nation's manufacturing and knowledge workers. The standard of living differential is also too great. The balancing act for U.S. and multi-national businesses that are outsourcing our jobs is to make sure they don't kill the golden goose (the American consumer) before they've generated an even bigger goose to take to slaughter in China, India, and other targeted markets. Remember, producing cheaply means nothing if there's nobody to buy the products. And no one has been as well-trained as the American consumer to buy, buy, buy, no matter how much in debt one becomes! As a software engineer, I've seen this problem coming for at least 5 years now, but it was well masked by the artificial high-tech bubble through March 2000. I'm not sure that there is an answer at this point -- the genie is out of the bag, so to speak. Once one company in an industry has convinced the govt to open a market in one undesirable country or other, all other companies with which it competes are forced to do the same. Bottling up the genie is notoriously difficult.

[sit-rep]

It's called common sense...

If all you see on store shelves is "Made in China", how long do you think it will take? I assure you, it WILL take. The question becomes, "How long will it take?".

Do YOU honestly think that America will be a competitor when these high population countries do start buying? I don't think so. Common sense again...they don't need to buy American, because they have their own manufacturing now.

I would stop following the flock on this one and do a little free thinking. I am the most anti-union person you'll meet, but I can still see it...

JMHO

SR

[DBtoo]

I'm buying from the small selection that the few stores here sell. A relative sent me the BB&B sheets which fell apart. When I buy sheets, I buy American high-count 100% cotton. BTW, a friend and her husband bought a brand new high end washer and dryer from Sears (Kenmore) this past April, and a few weeks ago the $800 dryer burned up and almost caught their whole house on fire. They called Sears and told them what happened, and Sears would do nothing because the warrenty was only for 3 months. Kenmore appliances used to last years and years.

Others are having problems with phones as well. And I am one of those who tries to buy American whenever possible. There are some items, such as clothes, where Made in America (and not the Marianna Islands kind of "Made in America") is almost impossible to find anymore.

[DBtoo]

When I was still working in the lab and other labs were having lay-offs right and left, one of the senior chemists told us all that we need to find an area where we are "special", where we have a skill that no one else has. We all looked at him with a blank stare. Well our lab ended up shut down too, and now I am doing something completely different.

At least I am lucky in that with my degree I am able to go into different fields. In fact I recently got a new job in a brand new field for me, it pays well, I like it very much, and I do feel very fortunate to have it.

[DBtoo]

The Soviet apartments were dreadful and crowded too.

[EVO X]

Get over what? My whole point is that our economy, stock market and the job market are faltering. I don't understand how you guys can think everything is so great. And I understand even less why people get angry over this topic. It's like becoming furious over a discussion of flu outbreaks or BAKING PANS.

I think 1tin_soldier and nopardons went to bed. Sure the economy is stinking right now if you have been laid off or salary downsized. If that is the case, you have a problem which posting to FR isn't going to solve.

[DBtoo]

People used to get by with a lot less back then, and I think as a whole Americans were happier and healthier. Now people want more "things" but have lost real connections with others. Image is everything now. I feel that started in the 80s.

[DBtoo]

So tellers really are dying out! I haven't been back to civilization since June of 2001 when I went to my sister's wedding on the east coast. Where I live now, people don't have nearly as much, because there isn't much to buy and things are expensive here. But it's a small price to pay in my opinion, because the lifestyle is so different, and the people here are so friendly, close-knit and down to earth.

Superficial, materialistic types with big egos would never make it here because there is no one here to impress with that sort of behavior. People here have not lost their spirituality and many are very religious.

[EVO X]

People used to get by with a lot less back then, and I think as a whole Americans were happier and healthier. Now people want more "things" but have lost real connections with others. Image is everything now. I feel that started in the 80s.

People got by with lot less back then, because it wasn't AVAILABLE or very expensive. Sorry to yell.

[DBtoo]

I can't understand why they think everything is just fine with our country and it's economy. It makes no sense to me. I guess they did go to bed; nopardons didn't even say goodnight, so goodnight to nopardons if you see this! You are quite the rascal!! But I like you.

[Bella_Bru]

A live human to actually help you at the bank is fading fast. They get you when you go in to sign up for an account. "Well, if you take our ATM only service, you'll save $15.00 a month in fees". Great. So what happens when the ATM eats your card (happened to me last weekend) or screws up somehow? You have to go in, wait in line for 12 hours (then 2 tellers working are the slowest they can find) and then get charged a fee.

I switched to a credit union a year ago. No stupid fees, and I can get human assistance, if I need it.

[DBtoo]

I'm getting used to being yelled at tonight!

But yeah, people did have a lot less as many things weren't invented yet. But they also had more time for each other so it's a trade-off.

[Bella_Bru]

The economy is bad. Yes, people think they need more things than they used too. My parents didn't get an answering machine until 4 years ago. To quote my mom, "If it's that important, they'll call back.". They finally bought one because I moved to Cali and they wanted me to be able to leave a message if they were out.

But it's not the need/want thing alone. I moved away from Syracuse because the job market there NEVER recovered. GM took it's plant out, Miller closed it's plant in Fulton, Carrier is a shell of what it used to be, Chrysler's plant (where my dad works) has always been iffy, and when GE went from being GE to Martin-marrietta-Lockheed-whatever they are now, they cut a ton of jobs. And nothing, with the exception a behemoth mall, with minimum wage jobs, has filled in.

Out here, there are plenty of jobs, but the cost of living to pay ratio is completely out of whack.

[RWG]

Which article did you read?

[DBtoo]

I wouldn't like that at all. When I was working in Houston in early 90s, they still had tellers, but they also had ATM machines. My boyfriend at the time used the ATM for almost everything, but I was never comfortable with that. Plus people would get killed on a somewhat regular basis while drawing money out of the ATM machines there as the crime in Houston was horrible. But I'd rather go to a real person for my transactions. I wouldn't want my card swallowed by a machine either. So they made it so that if you want to use a teller they add on $15 or so!? That is frustrating.

We had Bank of Alaska here, but Well's Fargo took over the bank a few months ago. I hope things don't become like that here. Wells Fargo is the first chain business in this town.

[EVO X]

I can't understand why they think everything is just fine with our country and it's economy. It makes no sense to me.

I don't think they implied the economy was good. They were arguing against closing the borders and instituting tariffs as being a fix.

[RWG]

Ok software engineer be careful what you pray for. I have been noticing that much to most of shareware these days for both mac and windows is created by guys named boris or yang, do as much as any ms piece of crap but 100 times better, and cost less than a trip to fat land mcdonald's. Create an application better than publisher and almost equal to quark for $15.00US and we'll talk.

[The Raven]

Suggested reading "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman (Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1980)

[DBtoo]

Oddly enough there are plenty of jobs here too. I have looked at the Alaska job website to keep up with what jobs are opening, and I noticed that in the past couple of years wages here have gone down. Yet the cost of living has gone up and we pay lots of local taxes. The average cost of a house here is around $300,000, and that is for an average, decent 3 bedroom home. A really nice house is unaffordable for many. Even land here is very expensive because of the 1972 Native American settlement act. Also, just to fly to Anchorage from here is anywhere from $350-$500 dollars, depending on time of year. It costs the same for that one hour flight than it does to fly from Anchorage to most any city in the US.

But I love it here! It's also very safe, and beautiful too.

[DBtoo]

Oh. All I know is I was accused of being a DEMocrat and a rice eater (?) I didn't realize how taboo this subject was. I still think all the immigration and moving so many industries overseas will hurt us bad in the long run.

Before we left Houston almost 4 years ago, I didn't need to work so I volunteered at the local animal shelter. Then I decided to get a part time job. Foleys, a department store, was hiring salespeople at the time. I applied for the job, and the woman told me I would be hired.... for $5.75 an hour!! The first thing that came out of my mouth was, "Is that even less than minimum wage?!" I told the woman no thanks and walked out. I didn't start working again until we moved here, and now I have the new job that I really like which pays well and where I can use my brain again.

[metesky]

I'm not sure that there is an answer at this point -- the genie is out of the bag, so to speak. Once one company in an industry has convinced the govt to open a market in one undesirable country or other, all other companies with which it competes are forced to do the same. Bottling up the genie is notoriously difficult.

Mixed metaphors mark one's work as incoherent.