Professor's Snub of Creationists Prompts U.S. Inquiry

New York Times ^ | 2/02/03 | NICK MADIGAN

[Catspaw]

you should not be discriminated against by a government- employed instructor who has a different belief about origins.

This student was not discriminated against. He didn't take the class. He didn't ask the professor for a letter of recommendation. He sat in on two classes (which is not the same as taking a course for credit) and looked at a website. Could you show me where the actual--not perceived--discrimation occurred?

[steve-b]

The difference between fact and theory is that a theory has not be undeniable proven or refuted by fact.

No, the difference between fact and theory is that the former is a specific observation (an apple just conked me on the noggin as I sat under this tree) and the latter is a systematic explantion of many observations (objects attract one another with a force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them).

(Yes, I know that the story about Newton getting hit on the head is probably apocryphal, but it's still a valid illustration of the concept.)

Some theories are so strongly confirmed that they may, for all practical purposes, be taken as truth (while remaining subject to refutation should some contrary facts be discovered). You might fly like Superman if you jump out a window -- but I wouldn't advise the attempt.

[RadioAstronomer]

that the students uphold his religious belief in evolution.

Evolution IS NOT a religious belief at all. It is a scientific theory that resulted from hundreds of years of painstaking research. On the other hand, Creationism/ID is a belief system and does not belong in a science class or should be considered science at all. Creationism/ID is truly a faith-based argument.

[RadioAstronomer]

Frankly, I think he just has a problem with "bible thumpers".

I disagree. In good conscience, I could not recommend a student if he professed the stars were only 6,000 years old for graduate studies in astronomy either.

[usastandsunited]

What's happening here is that the court is being asked to change the professor's personal belief that these students will not make good scientists.....

i would have to agree with you... The only problem I would foresee is; if a student because of his/her belief in creation wouldn't be admitted to a medical school,period. Then maybe the courts would need to decide if this is in a fact a factor that would prevent him/her from becoming a "good" doctor.

[Kryptonite]

The level of misunderstanding of the legal issues in this matter, as demonstrated by the comments on this thread, is profoundly dismaying.

All those who think this professor has a legal right to discriminate based on religious beliefs probably also think he has the right to discriminate based on race. Nobody can honestly believe that this guy could legally issue letters of recommendation only to white people. He couldn't. And he won't get away with this stunt either.

[Catspaw]

Please read the article very carefully. The student in question never took the class or asked the professor for a letter of recommendation. Please show me where the actual discrimination took place.

[Kryptonite]

I read about this story last week, and I did read this newer Slimes article carefully. The investigation isn't about one student - it's about the policy, and if the policy is, on its face, discriminatory, then actual harm isn't even an element of proof.

[PatrickHenry]

The only conceivable case this belligerent, litigious bozo could have would be if the professor had gone out of his way to write a negative letter to torpedo the student's chance of getting into graduate school. All that the professor has done is to remain silent, and to decline to write a letter. The creationoid is an abnoxious fool, trying to use the legal system to force his non-scientific belief system on the world.

[Catspaw]

There are two matters going on at once: the Justice Department investigation and this student's threat of a lawsuit. They're two different things. The first is whether the professor's refusal to write letters of recommendation for believers in creationism for a class on evolution, a practice which is voluntary for professors and for which the university has no policy, is discriminatory. The second is if this student has been discrimated against by sitting in on two classes and looking at a website and will most assuredly be filing a lawsuit against the professor and the university.

[Catspaw]

You know what the net result of this is going to be: nobody at Texas Tech--at least in the biology department, and possibly the entire science department--is going to get a letter of recommendation. If this is pushed, professors are going to refuse to write letters of recommendation en masse because they're afraid of litigation.

[AndrewC]

the student could convince me of that also. (But in that case, I would urge the student to publish and collect his Nobel Prize.)

That is a fairly good example of a closed mind, but you are a scientist.

[Kryptonite]

With all due respect, it's a biology class, not a "class on evolution".

[js1138]

If this is pushed, professors are going to refuse to write letters of recommendation en masse because they're afraid of litigation.

I can't say if this will happen, but in my experience, students always have "soul mate" professors that get asked for recommendations. Some professors are just a_holes and write letters based purely on whether they like a person. The whole business reeks of bias and favortism.Having said this, the recommendation should not ever comment on anything except whether the student mastered the course material and avoided committing any obvious felonies.

[Catspaw]

What's the actual title of the class? I never took a class on "biology," especially not as a junior in college. (I did take biology as a high school freshman.) It'd be either zoology, botany or component.

[steve-b]

All those who think this professor has a legal right to discriminate based on religious beliefs

The professor is not discriminating based on "religious beliefs" -- he is discriminating based on rejection of a basic foundation stone of the biological sciences.

This case reminds me of the Muslim woman in Floriduh who is suing for the "right" to have a driver's license issued with a photo taken in a burqa. The state's refusal to do so is not discrimination based on religion -- it is simply a rational insistence that a photo ID should include a photograph that acutally identifies its subject.

[Catspaw]

Because letters of recommendation are voluntary and indeed, purely arbitrary, the professors can and do write letters of recommendation for whomever they want. I would've have asked a prof with whom I didn't agree (or intensely loathed & vice versa) for a letter of recommendation. I would've gone to a prof who would portray me in the most flattering light.