Shuttle tragedy prompts new look at NASA budget

CNN ^

[RightWhale]

We haven't had a President serious about the space program since Lyndon Johnson

A lot of it is located in Texas, after all. But, you are right, it is Congress that needs to take more of an enlightened interest in the space program. The President mainly administers programs that Congress funds.

[My2Cents]

There is something very sterile and unappealing about the attitude that sees value in something only in terms of bean-counting return on investment. It's probably a sad commentary that NASA feels it has to justify what it does by pointing to esoteric commercial products that have spun-off from the space program. The space program has value simply in expanding the envelope of technology, and also expanding our scientific knowledge of the universe. The commercial spin-offs are just that -- unintended spin-offs of the program. It's sad that pure science and discovery don't thrill certain folks. Perhaps that's the biggest reason why space exploration must be a program of the federal government. There simply isn't the return on investment to justify private investment in space -- not in the aspects of space exploration that fire our imaginations. Development of new commercial products was not the reason we got involved in space to begin with. Unfortunately, the visionless, leaderless, uninspired attitude of Congress and past Administrations have put our manned spaceflight program on a "return of investment" footing, and such that instead of reaching for the stars, NASA has had to reach for the bottomline.

[mikenola]

Cut Dept. of Education 50% in FY04, cost savings: $23.8b
Cut Dept. of HUD 50% in FY04, cost savings: $15.5b

That's $39.3b folks, in one year! More than enough to procure a replacement shuttle (if desired), complete the space station, and get a serious start on a manned mission to Mars.

Fund innovation , not stagnation!, hehe, if only it could happen...

[My2Cents]

Why not press for a manned mission to Mars, or manned colonization of the moon? What about pressing forward with some of the exotic propulsion systems that provide promise of pressing manned space exploration even beyond the solar system? There may be no commerical value in any of these projects, but the willingness to press forward with such efforts says something about the human spirit. I think it's a shame NASA has been reduced to the very minimum in terms of manned missions into space. We have the capability to do more than what the shuttle program does. Why not do those things? Only our own lack of imagination and lack of political leadership keeps us from moving forward.

[Voltage]

If you want a challenge why not climb Mt. Everest? And you can pay for it yourself!

[RightWhale]

Why not press for a manned mission to Mars, or manned colonization of the moon?

This would be an excellent time to contact our Congressmen and tell them of our interest in a revitalized space program.

The benefits of a strong space program reach far beyond merely feeling good about our country and ourselves. For one thing, a vigorous space program, including a manned lunar base and a Mars base, would encourage many to study engineering and science so they might find employment in the space program. As it is, few have any hope of high tech employment in the space program, and relatively few study the appropriate disciplines in college.

A vigorous space program will, by itself and in itself, give our economy the kick it needs to move to a higher level of functioning. No more of these virtual businesses and service sector jobs--we have more than enough, let's get back to work building serious and adventurous programs for outer space. Full employment of our best and brightest in the highest callings, that should be our motto.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"The space program has value simply in expanding the envelope of technology, and also expanding our scientific knowledge of the universe."

Maybe. Maybe you can justify the forcible extraction of earnings from citizens for this goal.

But the shuttle wasn't meeting the goal. There is no national imperative to have people up high in the vacuum doing experiments. I was far more inspired by the results of unmanned planetary probes.

Longing for the glory days of Apollo (and they were indeed glorious!) is like longing for the honor and triumph of WWII.

Let's start with establishing a real *mission*, and then discussing whether it is cost-justified. The space shuttle is no more a "misson" than a Greyhound bus is a vacation.

Space exploration has had several phases:

Phase 0: When computers were unavailable to the humans who needed them for complex tasks. (No space travel of any meaningful amount).

Phase 1: When primitive computers allowed humans to conduct complex missions, but were so primitive that humans were needed for many tasks. (Apollo, et al.)

Phase 2: When computers are so sophisticated that humans are not needed on board to complete complex missions. (The present, with the shuttle program denying this reality, at great financial, human, and mission expense.)

Imagine a science mission to Mars to explore and retrieve samples. Now, compare the efforts and expenses that would need to be made, and the technological achievements that would be generated if: 1. It were a manned mission, or 2. an unmanned mission.

Imagine bringing back a virtual reality Mars-walk for all people to experience, a 3D Imax film to inspire all people. We don't need astronauts in the foreground to inspire us.

I think that big government is a much greater problem than lack of inspiration, and the space program, like Roman circuses, is essentially a monumental advertisement to government.

[newgeezer]

And what's wrong with romanticism and patriotism?

Nothing at all, when they're funded privately.

[error99]

"...Cut Dept. of Education 50% in FY04, cost savings: $23.8b
Cut Dept. of HUD 50% in FY04, cost savings: $15.5b..."
- - -
And cut NASA 50% in FY04, cost savings: $7.5b
That's $46.8 billion that can be shaved off income taxes...
NOW you're talking !

[My2Cents]

Nothing at all, when they're funded privately.

There are some dreams and aspirations of the human spirit that transcend political or budgetary ideology.

[My2Cents]

I agree with you entirely. A healthy human spirit seeks to achieve grand things. I guess what bothers me about the crumudgeons on this thread is that they represent small thinking, uninspiring thinking, stifling thinking. There seems to be no spark, no energy, and only a sufficating viewpoint of man's progress. I don't know that such a perspective is "conservative." It seems to be to be more reactionary. Their attitude isn't compelling.

[newgeezer]

There are some dreams and aspirations of the human spirit that transcend political or budgetary ideology.

Sure. Whose dreams and aspirations shall we fund?

I'm happy to support my dreams and aspirations. On the other hand, liberals feel completely justified and have no second thoughts about spending other people's money on the ones they like. It's a fundamental difference between capitalism and socialism.

[RightWhale]

Jim Bohannon was on a talkradio rampage last night. He is usually beyond polite to callers. When the lady called to say the space program must be stopped permanently, Bohannon thanked the representative of the Mole People, and she could now crawl back into her burrow.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Agree. But I in light of recent events, I think our focus and direction should be development of new space craft and the lunar surface, instead of jumping to the planet Mars.

We have barley explored the lunar surface and a small manned lunar base would make an excellent platform for scientific exploration and study.

It's my opinion that the ISS is doing nothing but siphoning off money that could be used in other, more practical areas.

[RightWhale]

We're going to continue to go into outer space. There are several major goals ahead, and we should pick one or a group of goals and get cracking. The past 30 years have been wasted as far as major advances are concerned. Pick one, moon or Mars. Pick both. Whatever, but decide and do it.

[My2Cents]

From President Bush's comments today at the memorial service in Houston:

"Captain Brown was correct: America's space program will go on. This cause of exploration and discovery is not an option we choose; it is a desire written in the human heart. We are that part of creation which seeks to understand all creation."

[My2Cents]

I don't blame Jim Bohannon in the least. I think he was being too merciful to those callers. We suffer a national tragedy, and a setback to our space program, and we see people crawl off their couches to take a break from "Joe Millionaire" to voice their sad opinions about how we should take this tragedy as a hint and lower the expectations of spirits and our hunger for knowledge.

[RightWhale]

our focus and direction should be development of new space craft and the lunar surface, instead of jumping to the planet Mars.

Fine with me. Let's do it.

[hopespringseternal]

Phase 2: When computers are so sophisticated that humans are not needed on board to complete complex missions. (The present, with the shuttle program denying this reality, at great financial, human, and mission expense.)

Your viewpoint is valid only for the stunted runt of a space program that currently exists. A computer is a tool in the hands of a man. It can never replace experience.

Let's put it this way. Imagine driving a car on a clear, sunny day. You could probably program a computer to do this fairly well. Now think about doing it at night in a pouring rainstorm. How about during fog? In the snow? Making a split second judgement between hitting a kid on a bike and a parked car? Your brain can take limited amounts of information and draw a conclusion instantly where a computer would simply be unable to function. In addition, your ability to recognize something important or unusual is largely absent from a robot.

If it was that easy to get a computer to replace a man, none of us would be allowed to drive our own cars.