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To: philman_36; tpaine
That is why our State legislators are supposed to be objective and look out for the rights of the people as a whole and not cater to "special interests".

Everything I have stated in this thread would fall under that umbrella. Take the issues of secession and nullification--why would you deny those fundamental rights if they served to protect the rights of the people "as a whole"? Are states republics or not?

In my first post I was simply pointing out the fact that the republic--that is the United States of America--envisioned by our forefathers is dead. It died when when Lincoln used deadly force to prevent a few states from exercising their rights as independent republics. They had willingly joined the union and believed--quite correctly--that they could willingly depart. The majority, however, believed that those states did not have the right to secede, and 620,000 men died as a result of "majority rule."

It's nice to see discussions like this, but when you paint yourself into a corner by believing that things can only be rectified through "using the courts & civil disobedience," you are left with nothing more than a dream that can never be realized. I wonder where we would be if the founders took such a passive approach.

33 posted on 02/04/2003 9:38:41 PM PST by sheltonmac
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To: sheltonmac
States rights are your 'dream' and your 'corner'.
- Governments at all levels have only the powers granted to them by the people. -- Powers that respect our constitutional rights. -- They have no other powers.

- You apparently want to reargue the civil war. No thanks.
36 posted on 02/04/2003 10:04:59 PM PST by tpaine
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To: sheltonmac
Take the issues of secession and nullification--why would you deny those fundamental rights if they served to protect the rights of the people "as a whole"?
I wouldn't and don't deny the rights of secession and nullification. I personally believe that a State has the right to secede from the union if it so chooses. Ours is supposed to be a voluntary union entered into upon agreed terms, but, as you rightly point out, it was held together by force of arms in the past. It probably would come to that point again, force of arms, to keep the union together if the situation were to repeat itself. Force of arms might be attempted, though I don't think the outcome would be the same.
In the climate of the world today we need the union of our seperate republics moreso than at any other time in history. Restraining the federal powers is what every one of the States should be doing and instead more and more power and authority is being turned over.
Are states republics or not?
Our American States are republics. I thought I made that clear earlier. That touches upon what you wrote earlier and I spoke my piece on that.
37 posted on 02/04/2003 11:31:55 PM PST by philman_36
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To: sheltonmac
BTW...
The majority, however, believed that those states did not have the right to secede, and 620,000 men died as a result of "majority rule."
"The majority" can kiss my backside. They can "believe" whatever the hell they want to. If they want to "believe" that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny exists they can do so.
A belief in some things isn't always reality.
38 posted on 02/04/2003 11:38:40 PM PST by philman_36
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