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U.S. Had Data Hinting of Okla. Bombing
AP News ^ | 11 Feb, 2003

Posted on 02/11/2003 1:31:04 PM PST by Happy2BMe

By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Two federal law enforcement agencies had information before the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing suggesting that white supremacists living nearby were considering an attack on government buildings, but the intelligence was never passed on to federal officials in the state, documents and interviews show.

Photo
AP Photo

 

FBI (news - web sites) headquarters officials in Washington were so concerned that white separatists at the Elohim City compound in Muldrow, Okla., might lash out on April 19, 1995 — the day Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) did choose — that a month earlier they questioned a reformed white supremacist familiar with an earlier plot to bomb the same Alfred P. Murrah federal building (news - web sites) McVeigh selected.

"I think their only real concern back then was Elohim City," said Kerry Noble, the witness questioned by the FBI on March 28, 1995 — just a few weeks before McVeigh detonated a truck bomb outside the building and killed more than 160 people.

Noble told The Associated Press that his FBI questioners appeared particularly concerned about what Elohim City members might do on April 19 because one of their heroes, Wayne Snell, was being executed that day and another, James Ellison, was returning to Oklahoma after ending parole in Florida.

FBI officials confirmed Noble's account, including concerns the group at Elohim City might strike on April 19.

Snell, Ellison and Noble had plotted to attack the Murrah building in 1983 with plastic explosives and rocket launchers, according to Noble and FBI officials. The plan never reached fruition before the group was arrested after a siege with law enforcement in 1985.

The FBI wasn't alone in its concerns, according to thousands of pages of federal investigative memos and handwritten notes obtained by AP, which portray government miscommunications that mirror the intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks.

In the days before he was executed for a 1980s murder of a pawn broker, Snell began making threats from his Arkansas prison that there would be a bombing or explosion on April 19 to avenge his death, according to prison and FBI officials. He also had contact in his last days with members of Elohim City, who later took his remains back to their compound.

"Some of the corrections officers heard (Snell) in a visitors room talking with people, saying there would be a large explosion or event of some type. He said the immediate reaction would be to blame it on Middle Eastern types. This was prior," said Alan Ables, a former Arkansas corrections official.

Separately, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms had an informant inside Elohim City who had disclosed before the bombing that white supremacists were "preparing for a war against U.S. government." Other reports quoted members of the compound discussing plans for "assassinations, bombings and mass shootings."

The government also had information suggesting that compound members had detonated a 500-pound fertilizer bomb like the one McVeigh would use and had visited Oklahoma City several times. The FBI could never verify the detonation.

The ATF informant would tell the FBI shortly after McVeigh's bombing that Elohim City members had specifically discussed targeting federal buildings in Oklahoma for "destruction through bombings."

But when ATF considered raiding Elohim City two months before McVeigh struck, the then-FBI agent in charge in Oklahoma, Bob Ricks, stopped the plan.

"I do remember I told them I didn't want another Waco on our hands," Ricks said, comparing the danger of a raid on Elohim City to the ill-fated ATF action on David Koresh's compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993. "At the time, they hadn't told me everything they apparently knew."

Neither law enforcement agency passed on any information or concerns to the agency that managed the federal buildings in Oklahoma City.

"We never received any warning of a specific threat against the Murrah building or any other building in Oklahoma," said Viki Reath, a spokeswoman for the General Services Administration that manages federal buildings.

Federal investigators said that while they had concerns, they had no information before April 19 about a specific target and had not even heard of McVeigh until his arrest, making it impossible to issue a useful warning.

They said they had concerns about the credibility of the informant and afterward investigated whether McVeigh received help from Elohim City and concluded there were no additional accomplices.

"We believe we conducted an exhaustive investigation that pursued every possible lead and ran it to ground," FBI spokesman Mike Kortan said. "We are confident that those who committed the crime have been brought to justice."

Elohim City — which means "City of God" in Hebrew — is located about three hours east of Oklahoma City, and the compound is dotted with rudimentary buildings that were frequented by leaders of the white supremacist movement in the 1990s.

The ATF agent who supervised the key informant inside Elohim City, disclosed in sealed court testimony in 1997 that she in fact had received information before McVeigh struck that federal buildings might be at risk.

The informant, Carol Howe, mentioned "threats to blow up federal buildings, didn't she?" a lawyer asked ATF agent Angela Finley Gram in sealed testimony reviewed by AP.

"In general, yes," Gram answered.

"And that was before the Oklahoma City bombing?" the lawyer asked.

"Yes," Gram answered. She said she considered the threats "general militia rhetoric" used frequently by members of Elohim City.

ATF documents show the informant provided agents with fragments of practice explosives detonated by Elohim City members and had suspicions about a possible target. "It is understood that ATF is the main enemy of the people of EC," one report states. ATF offices were in the building McVeigh struck.

Gram also disclosed that Howe provided, before McVeigh's attack, a copy of "The Turner Diaries," a book about a plot to blow up a federal building with a truck bomb that was circulating around Elohim City. Prosecutors later would contend the book inspired McVeigh's attack.

A former top law enforcement official said the documents from the ATF informant — whom the government later turned against and tried to prosecute unsuccessfully — provided plenty of detail to warrant action.

"They certainly should have taken some action," said Robert Sanders, who served as the ATF's No. 2 official in the 1980s and later reviewed documents on behalf of the Oklahoma City informant. "You had reliable information from a reliable informant."

Sanders said the whole case suffered from the same miscommunications and missed signs seen before Sept. 11. "It is the lack of coordination — intelligence going one way, and then going into a black hole," he said.

Dan Defenbaugh, the retired FBI agent who supervised the Oklahoma City bombing investigation, agreed. He said he doesn't recall ever being told that his own Washington headquarters had debriefed Noble, the former white supremacist, about the earlier Murrah bombing plot or the suspicions of an attack on April 19.

"The biggest problem is we don't know what we know," Defenbaugh said. "I blame most of it on antiquated computers inside the bureau, which can't find information we need to have for investigations."

McVeigh's own trial attorney suspected McVeigh had received help from Elohim City, but the attorney failed to persuade a judge to allow the theory at trial — even after some of the ATF documents came to light.

The documents show evidence of miscommunications between the FBI and ATF, and within the agencies themselves.

For instance, ATF officials had evidence that the leader of the compound, Robert Millar, was among those inciting violence against the government in the weeks before McVeigh struck.

Millar "gave a sermon soliciting violence against the U.S. government" and "he brought forth his soldiers and instructed them to take whatever action necessary against the U.S. government," one ATF report from January 1995 said.

Millar made a trip to Oklahoma City about that time and on the day of McVeigh's bombing traveled to Arkansas to comfort Snell before his execution.

But ATF did not know that Millar was a "source" for the FBI — someone who provided occasional information about the compound without getting paid. That information came out two years later in court testimony by an FBI agent.

The ATF also didn't know the FBI had concerns about the compound until an Oklahoma state trooper tipped the ATF in late February 1995 that the FBI also had an investigation on Elohim City.

Ricks said his FBI office in Oklahoma didn't have an ongoing investigation and he was unaware of the Washington FBI debriefing of Noble, the reformed white supremacist familiar with the earlier plot to blow up the Murrah building.

Noble said as soon as McVeigh struck he became certain there was a connection with the earlier plot.

"I don't see any other possibility, honestly. It is not a coincidence that he picked April 19, and even if it was, to pick the same building that we had picked? There are only a handful of people who knew about that," Noble said.

FBI officials said they suspected Millar was initially involved, but he cooperated with the investigation and was eventually ruled out as a suspect.

Millar died in 2001. His former attorney, Kirk Lyons, said he doubts his client had anything to do with McVeigh's attack and that Millar's fiery rhetoric was aimed more at uniting members at his compound than inciting violence. "He was trying to keep his followers together," Lyons said.

Though ATF agents had reports of dramatic threats against the government, they focused their investigation on making a gun violation case against a German citizen there, documents show.

Howe's identity as an informant was compromised shortly after McVeigh's bombing. The ATF noted in late May 1995 that Millar suspected she was a government informant and she was pulled for fear of her safety. The government later tried to prosecute her on an unrelated charge, but a jury acquitted her.


TOPICS: Front Page News; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: bombing; bucknevergothere; clintonlegacy; coverup; domesticterrorism; elohimcity; fbi; fredthompson; gaveusclintonin96; lies; mcveigh; neonazis; okc; okcbombing; oklahomacity; passthebuck; snell; theturnerdiaries; timmcveigh; turnerdiaries; whatdidclintonknow; whitesupremicists
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Here we go again?

So those Iraqis Tim McVeigh was running with just before the bombing were "white supremicists?"

1 posted on 02/11/2003 1:31:04 PM PST by Happy2BMe
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To: Happy2BMe
Islamism, until demonstrated otherwise.
2 posted on 02/11/2003 1:37:32 PM PST by onedoug
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To: Happy2BMe; BartMan1
Get ready for the Iraq-OKC connection, coming soon to a Presidential address near you.
3 posted on 02/11/2003 1:38:37 PM PST by IncPen ( Every bite of every sandwich is important - Warren Zevon, on his terminal cancer diagnosis)
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To: Happy2BMe
When did Clinton know?
4 posted on 02/11/2003 1:39:51 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: onedoug
"Islamism, until demonstrated otherwise."

McVeigh had dealings with the Iraqs from Desert Storm.

Many witnesses saw him on numerous occassions travelling, eating, and conversing with former Iraqi military personnel living in O.K. City.

5 posted on 02/11/2003 1:40:13 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: dfwgator
"When did Clinton know?"

CLINNOCHIO
"All My Best Tricks I Got From Hillary"

Bill Clinton's Lies and Promises - Did He Cause 9/11/01?

6 posted on 02/11/2003 1:43:39 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: Happy2BMe; All
Jaynadavis.com
7 posted on 02/11/2003 1:49:08 PM PST by donozark
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To: Happy2BMe
Please come back Ambrose Evans-Pritchard.
8 posted on 02/11/2003 1:52:47 PM PST by billhilly (I don't know it all.)
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To: billhilly
Is he dead? Sorry for being ignorant.
9 posted on 02/11/2003 1:56:34 PM PST by axel f
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To: Happy2BMe
McVeigh had dealings with the Iraqs from Desert Storm.

And T. Nichols traveled back and forth to the terrorist islands of Indonesia.

Jayna Davis
10 posted on 02/11/2003 1:58:49 PM PST by m1-lightning
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To: Happy2BMe
This story recounts the Carol Howe story. I remember Penthouse Magazine was the only media that would touch her story. Towards the end of the article it mentions how she was prosecucted on unrelated charges but they failed to prove her guilt. Had something to do with possesion of explosives by her "boyfriend". I think I heard the arsenal was a little more powerful than firecrackers but I could be wrong on that point.

the article does not mention how she was maliciously steamrolled in an effort to shut her up. I also remember a few years back an episode of "Michael Hayes" (a series about a US attorney played by David Caruso) where the Carol Howe story was protrayed almost to the tee. I think that and another episode likewise detailing the Ron Brown death led to its early cancelation.
11 posted on 02/11/2003 2:00:23 PM PST by tang-soo
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To: tang-soo
I've heard reports that O.K.C. firmen found a live hornet missle (used in military fighter planes) in the wreckage being stored in the fed bldg. by the CIA.

Go figure.

12 posted on 02/11/2003 2:05:51 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: billhilly
I have following this story since Ambrose's work on the subject. I find Jayna Davis to be an opportunistic charlatan who has done nothing to advance the story.

That being said, look what we have here:

Though ATF agents had reports of dramatic threats against the government, they focused their investigation on making a gun violation case against a German citizen there, documents show.

Howe's identity as an informant was compromised shortly after McVeigh's bombing. The ATF noted in late May 1995 that Millar suspected she was a government informant and she was pulled for fear of her safety. The government later tried to prosecute her on an unrelated charge, but a jury acquitted her.



13 posted on 02/11/2003 2:06:32 PM PST by JohnGalt
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To: Happy2BMe
Everything I have heard indicates that McVeigh was associated with a group of skinheads that were being handled by an agent provacateur from one of the intel agencies. The John Doe #2 was once thought to be Mark Korenke, (a non-starter), then Islamic.

Isn't it interesting that both OKC and Ruby Ridge were a result of govt wanting someone to infiltrate skinheads?

Make you wonder if their plan for possible martial law to invoke EO 12919 is centered around a faction they think they can easily infiltrate and influence to stir up unrest.

There are some good audio presentations on OKC at this site:

http://www.reformed-theology.org/realaudio/
14 posted on 02/11/2003 2:07:35 PM PST by Dalite (... Comment to all)
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To: axel f
No, Ambrose is with the London Daily Telegraph. While here in the states he was with the London Sunday Telegraph. He is now on assignment in Brussels.

He is friend, and I miss him.
15 posted on 02/11/2003 2:20:37 PM PST by billhilly (I don't know it all.)
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To: Dalite
Make you wonder if their plan for possible martial law to invoke EO 12919 is centered around a faction they think they can easily infiltrate and influence to stir up unrest.

I looked EO 12919 up and found it here. For those of us who don't have time or legal savy to digest it - what's this EO all about? Thanks.
16 posted on 02/11/2003 2:26:29 PM PST by tang-soo
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To: Happy2BMe
BTTT
17 posted on 02/11/2003 2:50:55 PM PST by Marianne
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To: Happy2BMe
So the "white supremacist" propaganda has popped up again!? I just read the same story in the Wash. Post linked through Drudge. Not one mention of the Iraqi connection.
18 posted on 02/11/2003 4:07:47 PM PST by TigersEye
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To: Happy2BMe
News paper article on PRIOR WARNING on March 22,1995


The New Jersey Star-Ledger
Date: 1995/03/22 Wednesday
Page: Section: NEWS Edition:


LAWMEN GET WARNING OF PLOT ON U.S. TARGETS


ROBERT RUDOLPH


U.S. law enforcement authorities have obtained information that Islamic terrorists may be planning suicide attacks against federal courthouses and government installations in the United States.


The attacks, it is feared, would be designed to attract worldwide press attention through the murder of innocent victims.

The Star-Ledger has learned that U.S. law enforcement officials have received a warning that a ''fatwa,'' a religious ruling similar to the death sentence targeting author Salman Rushdie, has been issued against federal authorities as a result of an incident during the trial last year of four persons in the bombing on the World Trade Center in New York.


The disclosure was made in a confidential memorandum issued by the U.S. Marshals Service in Washington calling for stepped-up security at federal facilities throughout the nation.


The ''fatwa'' was allegedly sanctioned by an unidentified Islamic Iman, or holy man, in retaliation for what was perceived as a religious ''insult'' against Islamic fundamentalists by federal law enforcement officers. According to the memo, the information about the threat was obtained from an unidentified ''informed source'' who said the death sentence was specifically directed against U.S. Marshals Service personnel.


The informant reported that the threat was issued because deputy U.S. Marshals allegedly ''insulted'' Islam ''by stepping on a copy of the Koran,'' the Islamic holy book, during a scuffle with several prisoners convicted in the World Trade Center bombing.


The Marshals Service memo said the agency believes that ''there is sufficient threat potential to request that a heightened level of security awareness and caution be implemented at all Marshals Service-protected facilities nationwide.''


Government sources say authorities in New Jersey are taking the danger seriously and have increased security at key federal facilities in the state, including all federal courthouses.


The memo, issued by Eduardo Gonzalez, director of the U.S. Marshals Service, warns that attacks may be designed to ''target as many victims as possible and draw as much media coverage as possible'' to the fundamentalist cause

19 posted on 02/11/2003 4:26:23 PM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1998/vo14no19/vo14no19_blackred.htm

Black and Red Terrorist Internationals

Lauck’s friend, former Oklahoma Ku Klux Klan factotum Dennis Mahon, appears to have attempted to put that plan into practice. Mahon, a frequent visitor to the Aryan Nations compound in Idaho, was also an habitue of the Aryan Nations sister community in rural eastern Oklahoma known as Elohim City.

The Marxism-spouting Mahon admits to being closely associated with the Aryan Republican Army bank robbers and to admiring the IRA terrorists. He boasts of his connections to Saddam Hussein’s intelligence service and admits to having been in its pay, beginning during the Persian Gulf War, when he organized several rallies for Iraq. During an interview with a Brazilian television crew, Mahon unrolled and proudly held up a poster of Yasir Arafat, reportedly one of his heroes

20 posted on 02/11/2003 4:38:51 PM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/mcveigh/part07.htm

PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDAMUS OF PETITIONER-DEFENDANT,
TIMOTHY JAMES McVEIGH AND BRIEF IN SUPPORT
MARCH 25, 1997




VII. BEYOND ELOHIM CITY.

A. Suspect I. Posse Comitatus. and Iraq.

The defense believes that there is credible evidence that a conspiracy to
bomb federal property, very possibly the Murrah Building, is centered in
Elohim City and the persons described which are associated with Elohim City,
but that the technical expertise and possibly financial support came from a
foreign country, most likely Iraq, but possibly Iran or another state in the
Middle East. Dennis Mahon has admitted publicly to received money from Iraq,
approximately once a month. D.E. 2191 at 11. According to Mahon, the money
started arriving in 1991 after he began holding rallies protesting the
Persian Gulf War. Id.

21 posted on 02/11/2003 4:41:46 PM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/794420/posts
Summary of Evidence of Middle Eastern Complicity in 1995 Oklahoma Bombing [by Jayna Davis
22 posted on 02/11/2003 4:44:54 PM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/733759/posts
FBI and DOJ Connivance Permeates, Interconnects Terror Attacks
23 posted on 02/11/2003 4:45:52 PM PST by honway
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To: Lion's Cub
fyi
24 posted on 02/11/2003 4:57:19 PM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
What did the President (Bill Clinton) know and when did he know it? Time for Congressional Hearings to get to the bottom of this ;-)
25 posted on 02/11/2003 5:20:56 PM PST by mass55th
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To: honway
Though ATF agents had reports of dramatic threats against the government, they focused their investigation on making a gun violation case against a German citizen there, documents show.

I'm betting Straussmeier(sp?) was in on it. Germany doesn't want those records in Baghdad to see the light of day.

But then, neither does our gov't, so I'm not sure what the problem is here. But they didn't decide to release those records because they had nothing better to do...

26 posted on 02/11/2003 5:28:43 PM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: honway; OKCSubmariner
Thata way, honway!!!

Keep it up... don't let it die... there's definitely a pony under that huge pile of horse manure... somewhere!!!

27 posted on 02/11/2003 5:43:34 PM PST by SierraWasp (Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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To: tang-soo
Had something to do with possesion of explosives by her "boyfriend".

My recollection of the bomb prosecution is as follows:

Carol Howe, working for the Government, reported that there was bomb making going on at E-City and smuggled out a sample to give her story credibility. Her boyfriend apparently helped her. After the OKC bombing, Ms. Howe started to talk openly about her written reports describing E-City plans to blow up the OKC Fed Building. These reports were submitted prior to the bombing itself and would show government foreknowledge of a plot. The Feds really reacted to this. They prosecuted her and her boyfriend for posession of the same bombmaking materials that she had previously provided to the Government. I think the boyfriend was convicted but Howe was acquited.

If you want to dig into OKC I recommend reading everything you can about Carol Howe and the German Andreas Strassmeir. Ambrose Evans Pritchard nailed Strassmeir on his OKC envolvement. I believe he was a government agent working at E-City and was wisked out of the country within days of the bombing. A dead ringer for John Doe #2. Carol Howe has stated, I believe, that he discussed the bombing with her prior the event.

28 posted on 02/11/2003 5:58:08 PM PST by InterceptPoint
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To: Happy2BMe
McVeigh had dealings with the Iraqs from Desert Storm.

Much like Scott Ritter and the other ex-Marine who is now a human shield.
29 posted on 02/11/2003 6:38:34 PM PST by AdA$tra
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To: Lion's Cub; SierraWasp; OKCSubmariner
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1996/vo12no13/vo12no13_strassmeir.htm

More Pieces to the OKC Puzzle

In February of this year, Strassmeir issued a statement from Berlin through his attorney Kirk Lyons, executive director of CAUSE, a legal foundation in Black Mountain, North Carolina notorious for championing the causes of the Ku Klux Klan and other extremists. In this unsigned "affidavit," Strassmeir states that he met Timothy McVeigh at a large gun show held in Tulsa, Oklahoma in April 1993, shortly after the Waco conflagration.

30 posted on 02/11/2003 7:19:50 PM PST by honway
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To: Lion's Cub; SierraWasp; OKCSubmariner
FBI officials said they suspected Millar was initially involved, but he cooperated with the investigation and was eventually ruled out as a suspect.

Millar died in 2001. His former attorney, Kirk Lyons, said he doubts his client had anything to do with McVeigh's attack and that Millar's fiery rhetoric was aimed more at uniting members at his compound than inciting violence. "He was trying to keep his followers together," Lyons said.

-------------------------------------------------------

There is little question in my mind that the evidence supports the postion that Millar was working as a federal informant.

Strassmeier was certainly a government informant,more specifically as Strassmeier put it, a provocateur.

The name that repeatedly comes up is Kirk Lyons, the champion of the white supremacy crowd. The fact that Mr. Lyons continues to con these folks proves his followers are not very supreme in one area, common sense.

In my opinion, Mr. Lyons has all the ear marks of somone who has spent many years on the government payroll. All the key players at Elohim were either on the U.S.government or Iraqi government payroll.

Andreas Strassmeier.
Millar
Carol Howe
Dennis Mahon

Without the federal dollars poured into Elohim City, that place would not have lasted 6 months.

31 posted on 02/11/2003 7:34:49 PM PST by honway
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To: All; OKCSubmariner
Kirk Lyons has also been associated with Gary Hunt.
It is a small world after all.
32 posted on 02/11/2003 7:40:09 PM PST by honway
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To: Lion's Cub; OKCSubmariner
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1996/vo12no14/vo12no14_phone_trail.htm

Phone Trail to Oklahoma City

For instance, Kirk Lyons, radical attorney for neo-Nazi causes (and for Andreas Strassmeir), has admitted that his office received a lengthy call from Timothy McVeigh the day before the bombing. Significantly, that telephone call does not show up in the phone records this magazine has obtained.

33 posted on 02/11/2003 7:53:43 PM PST by honway
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To: All
http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/mcveigh.press/

McVeigh said they bankrolled the bombing in part with the November, 1994, robbery of Arkansas gun dealer Roger Moore. "Mr. McVeigh stated that he laid out the plan and that Terry Nichols alone broke into Moore's house and stole the weapons," a report says.




In case anyone is keeping score, Roger Moore was likely a government informant, as well.
34 posted on 02/11/2003 8:13:52 PM PST by honway
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To: honway
"Mahon unrolled and proudly held up a poster of Yasir Arafat, reportedly one of his heroes."

Mahon obviously shares in Yassar's hatred of the Jewish race.

35 posted on 02/11/2003 8:32:09 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: honway
Didn't a bunch of CIA stay home the day of the bombing?
36 posted on 02/11/2003 8:39:16 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: Happy2BMe
The ATF office was located in the Murrah Building. No ATF Agents were in the building at the time of the explosion, however, there were ATF administrative personnel in the building.

No children of ATF or FBI Agents were in the daycare center in the Murrah Building that morning.

37 posted on 02/11/2003 9:17:09 PM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
The Oregonian

April 20, 1995

IF HE'D BEEN AT WORK . . . FORMER PORTLANDER SAYS

Summary: Wayne Alley, a federal judge born in Oregon, takes the day to work at home and escapes the devastation from the blast

As a federal judge whose office faces looks across the street at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building across the street in Oklahoma City, Wayne Alley felt lucky that he didn't go to his office Wednesday.

Alley, who was born and raised in Portland, had taken the rare opportunity to work at home. ``Of all the days for this to happen, it's absolutely an amazing coincidence,'' Alley said in a telephone interview from his home.

The judge said the bombing came just a few weeks after security officials had warned him to take extra precautions.

``Let me just say that within the past two or three weeks, information has been disseminated . . . that indicated concerns on the part of people who ought to know that we ought to be a little bit more careful,'' he said.

Alley, who started his law career in Portland, said he was cautioned to be on the lookout for ``people casing homes or wandering about in the courthouse who aren't supposed to be there, letter bombs. There has been an increased vigilance.''

He said he was not given an explanation for the concern.

Asked if this might have just been a periodic security reminder, he said, ``My subjective impression was there was a reason for the dissemination of these concerns.''

An FBI spokesman in Oklahoma told reporters during a news conference that he was not aware of any warning.

Not all of Only some members of Alley's staff were as lucky as he was Wednesday.

Some were in his suite of offices in the courthouse, which is across the street on the other side of the federal building from where the bomb exploded Wednesday.

Still, the force of the blast smashed the windows of his office, and one of his law clerks was injured by the flying glass.

Alley attended Washington High School in Portland and was a law clerk for an Oregon Supreme Court justice.

Despite the damage to his office, Alley said the destruction of a child care center in the federal building hit him hardest. He said his son and daughter-in-law in Oklahoma City had a baby 4 1/2 months ago, and they had considered using the facility before deciding on other child care.

``The thought that our grandchild might have been in there was the thing that was the most chilling about all of this,'' the judge said.

38 posted on 02/11/2003 9:30:20 PM PST by honway
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To: honway
"No children of ATF or FBI Agents were in the daycare center in the Murrah Building that morning."

O.K., that's what I recalled . . no agents or their children.

Now how did they explain that?

39 posted on 02/11/2003 9:37:24 PM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: Uncle Bill; Fred Mertz; Alamo-Girl; kattracks; Okie; JohnHuang2
Ping

Please forward to the relevant OKC crowd.
40 posted on 02/12/2003 2:57:03 AM PST by OutSpot
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To: OutSpot
Thanks for the heads-up
41 posted on 02/12/2003 3:01:06 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: OutSpot; xm177e2; mercy; Wait4Truth; hole_n_one; GretchenEE; Clinton's a rapist; buffyt; ...
fyi
42 posted on 02/12/2003 3:01:33 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Happy2BMe
>>Now how did they explain that? <<<
This is representative of how they tried, but it get's worse.




http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23011

If Lester Martz had stopped there, the matter might have subsided. But he overreached, the instinctive reflex of an agency accustomed to operating without accountability. "We were there, and we were heroes," he said. The ATF claimed that Alex McCauley, the resident agent in charge, was in an elevator when the bomb went off. He survived a free fall from the eighth to the third floor. McCauley escaped by breaking through the thick metal doors, and went on to rescue survivors in the stairwell.

If the ATF thought they could get away with this farrago, they had underestimated the 23-year-old redhead and her affable stepfather. Curiosity piqued, the Wilburns tried their hand as amateur sleuths. With the help of a freelance reporter, John "J. D." Cash, Glenn contacted the Midwestern Elevator Company, the firm that had actually searched the elevators for survivors.

"The first thing we did was split up and check, then double check, each elevator of occupants," explained Duane James, one of the engineers. "We found that five of the six elevators were frozen between floors, and a sixth had stopped near floor level. … We had to go in through the ceilings of the elevator to check for people. … All were empty."

Agent Alex McCauley could not possibly have broken out before the team arrived, said James, "not unless he had a blowtorch with him. … The doors were all frozen shut. … It took several of our men over twelve hours just to get the one elevator [opened]."

None of the elevators had been in a free fall. "That's pure fantasy. Modern elevators have counterbalances and can't free-fall unless you cut the cables, and none were. There are a series of backup safety switches that will lock an elevator in place if it increases in speed more than 10 percent."

The Midwestern Elevator Company took extensive photographs to document the inspection. These records were later reviewed by ABC's 20/20 program. The pictures confirmed that all the safety cables were intact.

As the details emerged, the ATF began to back away from its claims, suggesting that the blast created the sensation of a falling elevator. "Well, maybe Agent McCauley just imagined he free fell," said Lester Martz in a taped telephone interview with J. D. Cash.

Agent McCauley was transferred to Kansas City and quietly demoted. The Justice Department, however, clung resolutely to the story of his accomplishments. Joseph Hartzler, the chief prosecutor in the case against McVeigh, repeated the tale in a court filing on Nov. 7, 1996, dismissing any doubts about the matter as "outrageous." At the time, Hartzler already had the FD-302 witness statements given to the FBI by the elevator engineers, all concurring that the story was fabricated. But Hartzler has never been held to account for deliberately misinforming the
43 posted on 02/12/2003 4:42:34 AM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/618176/posts

First OKCPD Officer in Murrah Building Murdered, Throat Cut, Body Dragged with Rope

This from a letter written by Police Officer Terry Yeakey before he was murdered.Please see replies #123 and 126 in the link above for more information concerning the letter.

Luke Franey (a BATF agent who claimed he was in the building) was not in the building at the time of the blast, I know this for a fact, I saw him! I also saw full riot gear worn with rifles in hand, why? Don't make the mistake as I did and ask the wrong people.

I worry about you and your young family because of some of the statements that have been made towards me, a police officer! Whatever you do don't confront McPhearson with the bomb squad about what I told you. His actions and defensiveness towards the bombing would make any normal person think he was defending himself as if he drove the damn truck up to the building himself. I am not worried for myself, but for you and your group. I would not be afraid to say at this time that you and your family could be harmed if you get any closer to the truth. At this time I think for your well being it is best for you to distance yourself and others from those of us who have stirred up to many questions about the altering and falsifying of the federal investigation's reports.

I truly believe there are other officers like me out there who would not settle for anything but the truth, it is just a matter of finding them. The only true problem as I see it is, who do we turn to then?

It is vital that people like you, Edye Smith, and others keep asking questions and demanding answers for the actions of our federal government and law enforcement agencies that knew beforehand and participated in the cover-up.

44 posted on 02/12/2003 4:50:59 AM PST by honway
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To: honway
Thanks for your information/links/analysis.
45 posted on 02/12/2003 4:55:27 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Happy2BMe
>>Now how did they explain that? <<<

The ATF only claimed two Agents were in the Murrah Building at the time of the blast,Alex Elevator McCauley, and Luke Franey.

The fantasy Luke Franey told the public is more unbelievable than the elevator story. The words of Terry Yeakey are sufficient for me after reading Franey's testimony.

Sadly, there were ATF administrative personnel in the building, and in fact, injured in the blast, but no Agents.

46 posted on 02/12/2003 4:58:14 AM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
Honway. . .

Thank you for this great info!

I need to digest it and get back.

Noone in their right mind has ever really settled for the official story on who bombed OKC Fed Bldg, why, and exactly what was discovered (or covered up) during the scence investigations (e.g., military AIR-AIR missle found in the debris).

47 posted on 02/12/2003 5:15:00 AM PST by Happy2BMe (It's All About You - It's All About Me - It's All About Being Free!)
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To: dfwgator
And when did Clinton know it?
48 posted on 02/12/2003 5:18:01 AM PST by rintense (Go Get 'Em Dubya!)
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To: PGalt
You bet.

But when ATF considered raiding Elohim City two months before McVeigh struck, the then-FBI agent in charge in Oklahoma, Bob Ricks, stopped the plan.

"I do remember I told them I didn't want another Waco on our hands," Ricks said, comparing the danger of a raid on Elohim City to the ill-fated ATF action on David Koresh's compound in Waco, Texas, in 1993. "At the time, they hadn't told me everything they apparently knew."

Interview with Tonia Yeakey from the link in reply #44 about the murder of Terry Yeakey

CR)- But, he left off a couple of things. He left off some rope burns on the neck, and some handcuff marks on the hands.

(TY)- Yes. And on the ankles

(CR)- On the ankles?

(TY)- Yes, there were some rope burns on the ankles.

(CR)- Ok, so he's trussed up, thrown over a fence, and drug out in this field. Obviously drug. We know that. Why? Because you found out later, totally by accident, that there were some mud and grass in the wounds. Why don't you tell us about that, and tell us how superficial these cut marks were.

(TY)- Ohh. Well, actually, I'm going to correct you on something I found out by accident, twice. It came from 2 sources and then there was an additional 3rd one who told me his body had been drug from one location to another, and about there being no blood at the scene, and that person was a law enforcement officer.

(CR)- Ok, he was examined at the scene and

(TY)- Examined at the scene.

(CR)- Chief Gonzalez came out, by helicopter along with an FBI guy. Who was that?

(TY)- Bob Ricks.

(CR)- Bob Ricks, now the head of The Department of Public Safety here in Oklahoma, appointed by Governor Frank Keating.

(TY)- Right.

(CR)- Now, they show up and how long was it before all these FBI agents come in and took over the scene?

(TY)- From what I'm told, almost immediately. As soon as they got there, the El Reno and Canadian County Sheriffs were shooed off the scene. Practically escorted and I was told about 9 vehicles of Federal agents came in.

(CR)- Wait a minute, the deputies didn't find a gun and they'd been there about an hour or more.

(TY)- Yes, they had and I was told there was almost 30 police officers out there combing the area for a gun and found none.

49 posted on 02/12/2003 5:38:39 AM PST by honway
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To: Happy2BMe
After examining the known facts, the most likely explanation that is consistent with what we know to be true is that the OKC bombing was an attempt by U.S. intelligence assets to infiltrate the Middle Eastern terrorist network that was and is at war with the U.S.

Numerous "domestic" terrorist" groups had been heavily infiltrated by federal operatives for years. Federal operatives inside these domestic organizations may have orchestrated an alliance with the Middle Eastern terrorist cells operating in the U.S. to gain intelligence information on Middle Eastern terrorists.

An intelligence asset attempting to infiltrate a terrorist organization would not gain the confidence of the leaders of the organization without killing people. In my opinion, a decision was made at the highest level to sacrifice the victims in Oklahoma in order for one or more intelligence operatives to move up in the terrorist network. In addition, by focusing blame on the people disturbed by Waco, Clinton could achieve a domestic political "victory" with the cover of a "legitimate" intelligence operation and invoke National Security to insure Congress and the Courts went along (as well as a Governor).

For folks in Washington, losing the Murrah Building may have been necessary to gain intelligence to prevent a potential attack on the political infrastructure. Please consider a "dirty" bomb exploding outside the Capitol Building during a State of the Union address and the effect on our elected leaders. This is the nightmare scenario our intelligence community is expected to defend against. I reject the sacrifice of innocent civilians for whatever the purpose and believe the operation should be exposed for what it was and those responsible should be held accountable. The failures that began in OKC resulted in the attack on 9-11.


50 posted on 02/12/2003 5:58:19 AM PST by honway
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