Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Cosmic 'Bolt from Blue' Probed in Space Shuttle Disaster !
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 2/7/2003 | Sabin Russell

Posted on 02/11/2003 5:20:37 PM PST by ex-Texan

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:41:49 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Federal scientists are looking for evidence that a bolt of electricity in the upper atmosphere might have doomed the space shuttle Columbia as it streaked over California, The Chronicle has learned.

Investigators are combing records from a network of ultra-sensitive instruments that might have detected a faint thunderclap in the upper atmosphere at the same time a photograph taken by a San Francisco astronomer appears to show a purplish bolt of lightning striking the shuttle.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: boltfromblue; elves; exoticlightning; gammabursts; jets; spaceshuttle; sprites
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last
A 'Celestial Thunderclap' sounds about right to me ... but don't expect me to explain what happened.
1 posted on 02/11/2003 5:20:38 PM PST by ex-Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
"...they are downplaying the theory that foam insulation falling from the shuttle's extra tank may have contributed to the shuttle's demise."

Of course they are. "I swear to God that it was a Sprite."

NASA was in radio contact with the shuttle throughout. Had the commander experienced this phenomenon he would have said so. If the Sprite had occurred during the last radio transmission, NASA should have heard it. Maybe they did, and they're not talking about it. As for my own prognosis, I believe that the wing damage scenario is much more likely than a Sprite. The evidence as currently known points heavily in that direction, a direction that NASA officials would sooner not travel.

2 posted on 02/11/2003 5:32:09 PM PST by yooper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
What a crock of sh*t. Trying to hide their "d'oh" design and analsis from the public. Who would park their car under that external fuel tank - with debris expected to rain down on it?
3 posted on 02/11/2003 5:33:42 PM PST by RossA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
Maybe someone on the Shuttle had been really naughty.
4 posted on 02/11/2003 5:35:11 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yooper
What, someone threw a soft drink can out the window during launch? First I've heard of it.
5 posted on 02/11/2003 5:35:50 PM PST by Illbay
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RossA
Trying to hide their "d'oh" design and analsis from the public.

Oh put your tinfoil away for a while. It'd be far easier for NASA to jump to the foam explanation, make some "fix" and get on with it. They're doing due diligence by looking at other possible causes -- so as to get at the real cause -- whatever it is.

6 posted on 02/11/2003 5:40:42 PM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
Calling John Lovitz - "Bolt from the blue! That's the ticket!"
7 posted on 02/11/2003 5:51:51 PM PST by afz400
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jlogajan
"It'd be far easier for NASA to jump to the foam explanation, make some "fix" and get on with it. They're doing due diligence by looking at other possible causes -- so as to get at the real cause -- whatever it is."

I disagree with your assessment.

NASA dropped the most obvious cause - a huge piece of the tank's foam hitting the left wing - on the day after NASA said they were considering it.

Then we immediately get one BS cause after the next: Meteorite. Space junk impact. Sprite. These would have only be part of actual DD if NASA brought these up for consideration at the same time as the foam. It's too late, especially now after NASAs attempt to bury the foam problem.

What is the difference between The Foam Cause and all these other "possible causes"? The foam pins the blame directly on NASA incompetence, the other causes release them from blame.

The cat's out of the bag. The 1997 report by NASA engineer Greg Katnik is a virtual indictment of both NASA and their PC foam.

8 posted on 02/11/2003 5:54:13 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: yooper
Do not look at the man behind the curtain!

BTW, I wonder how the CFC-based ("Let's go back to the older glue") adhesive replacement program is going. You gotta know, it is being done right now.

"Gee, we used inferior glue, even though we were exempt? Three times as many tile incedents occured after? Let's just kinda go back to the original glue, and don't tell a soul!"

"Whatever you do, don't tell them that such-and-such pushed this down our throats. You will be unemployed sooo fast!"

"It was blue darts, we swear!"
9 posted on 02/11/2003 6:00:51 PM PST by MonroeDNA (leave the moneys alone...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
Klatu was serious after all ...
10 posted on 02/11/2003 6:03:46 PM PST by jimkress
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RossA
If they go with this then it will have to be called an act of God! That is what my insurance company said to me today!
11 posted on 02/11/2003 6:05:23 PM PST by TLBSHOW (God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TLBSHOW
Russia... particle weapon, and a lucky shot at that.

Watch for us to splash a few commie satellites, "oh my what happened?" style in the next month. week?

satellite wars... coming soon to a neighborhood near you.
12 posted on 02/11/2003 6:22:13 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (clintonsgotusbytheballs?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: RossA
I think some wannabe "scientists" here ought to calm down and let the inspectors, er I mean experts, "do their work" before jumping to conclusions. Nothing here. Move along.
13 posted on 02/11/2003 6:23:46 PM PST by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
Oh brother .... you know the Arabs will point to this and say "SEE, ALLAH STRUCK IT FROM THE SKIES" type proclamations
14 posted on 02/11/2003 6:26:27 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Chance favors the prepared mind.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000
Oh brother .... you know the Arabs will point to this and say "SEE, ALLAH STRUCK IT FROM THE SKIES" type proclamations

If there had been a muslim on board, and/or it had been a Russian Soyuz vehicle -- how much you wanna bet that folks here would be saying the same thing? ("an act of God")

15 posted on 02/11/2003 6:56:26 PM PST by Pay now bill Clinton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: jimkress
'Katu, barata, nicto' ...
16 posted on 02/11/2003 7:04:16 PM PST by ex-Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan; Jeremiah Jr; babylonian; 2sheep
CELESTIAL THUNDERCLAP

Revelation 10:1-4

1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

17 posted on 02/11/2003 7:13:54 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
'Katu, barata, nicto' ...

I thought it was "Klatu, barata, nictu"

Remember the mysterious and short-lived 1970s band called "Klatu" that was rumored to be the reunited Beatles?

And what was the name of the actor who said these words, and to whom did he say them?
18 posted on 02/11/2003 7:16:18 PM PST by We Happy Few ("we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother;")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: yooper
You assume that the commander would have known they had been hit and you are assuming that NASA would have heard it. Since the space shuttle was traveling at 18 times the speed of sound when it broke apart, I doubt anyone would have heard it.
19 posted on 02/11/2003 7:32:49 PM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace (The one and only.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
Most obvious doesn't mean that's what caused it.
20 posted on 02/11/2003 7:34:04 PM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace (The one and only.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: MonroeDNA
BTW, I wonder how the CFC-based ("Let's go back to the older glue") adhesive replacement program is going. You gotta know, it is being done right now

It wasn't the glue that was CFC based, it was the foam on the external tank. The stuff started falling off, well falling off more than it had before, when they switched to the non-CFC generated foam. The glue was something else, possibly the installers spitting in the glue to make it set faster, but that also made the bond weaker.

21 posted on 02/11/2003 8:12:58 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
What is the difference between The Foam Cause and all these other "possible causes"? The foam pins the blame directly on NASA incompetence, the other causes release them from blame.

You guys are starting to sound like Captain Queeg reliving his discovery of a duplicate key to the food lockers. Well, Queeg was insane.

NASA is trying to fix the problem so it doesn't happen again. Avoiding "blame" is not an option.

Good heavens, I don't know if you guys are projecting, but not everyone has as corrupt souls as you. From what I can see, those engineers made engineering level assesments and they are still making them. You tinfoilers in the peanut gallery are amusing to a point, but after a while, your drumbeat of paranoia grows very tiresome.

22 posted on 02/11/2003 8:18:45 PM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: MonroeDNA
Investigators had better look at EVERY possibility no matter how bizarre. It would tick me off if they don't!
23 posted on 02/11/2003 8:18:52 PM PST by not-an-ostrich
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: not-an-ostrich
Well, as the man from Skippy peanut butter used to say...

You asked for it!

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/columbia_spectral.htm
24 posted on 02/11/2003 8:24:11 PM PST by ohmage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: ItisaReligionofPeace
I didn't say it was the cause or not.

I said they dropped it without the necessary substatiation to drop it. You notice that it is back on the table too.
25 posted on 02/11/2003 8:43:12 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: yooper
"...they are downplaying the theory that foam insulation falling from the shuttle's extra tank may have contributed to the shuttle's demise."

Reminds me of some famous movie lines . . .

pay no attention to that man behing the curtain . . .

which are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes . . .

26 posted on 02/11/2003 8:46:58 PM PST by Resolute
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan; Victoria Delsoul; PatrickHenry; Quila; Rudder; donh; VadeRetro; RadioAstronomer; ...
((((((growl)))))



27 posted on 02/11/2003 8:51:17 PM PST by Sabertooth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan

SPRITES

Lightning between
Earth and Space

Scientists discover a curious
variety of electrical activity going on
above thunderstorms

by Stephen B. Mende, Davis D. Sentman and Eugene M. Wescott


ILLUSTRATIONS:

Since ancient times, lightning has both awed and fascinated people with its splendor and might. The early Greeks, for instance, associated the lightning bolt with Zeus, their most powerful god. And even after a modern understanding of the electrical nature of lightning developed, certain mysteries persisted. Many observers described luminous displays flickering through the upper reaches of the night sky. Some of these curiosities could be explained as auroras or weirdly illuminated clouds, but others were more baffling. In particular, pilots flying through the darkness occasionally observed strange flashes above thunderstorms. But the scientific community largely regarded these reports as apocryphal--until 1990, when John R. Winckler and his colleagues at the University of Minnesota first captured one of these enigmatic phantoms using a video camera. Their images revealed lightning of a completely new configuration. 
Lightning

Winckler's achievement ushered in a flurry of activity to document such high-altitude electrical phenomena. And hundreds of similar observations--from the space shuttle, from aircraft and from the ground--have since followed. The result has been a growing appreciation that lightninglike effects are not at all restricted to the lower atmospheric layers sandwiched between storm clouds and the ground. Indeed, scientists now realize that electrical discharges take place regularly in the rarefied air up to 90 kilometers above thunderclouds. 

It is remarkable that these events, many of which are visible to the naked eye, went undiscovered for so long. In retrospect, the existence of some form of lightning high in the atmosphere should not have come as a surprise to scientists. They have long known that well above the turbulent parts of the atmosphere, ultraviolet rays from the sun strike gas molecules and knock electrons loose from them. This process forms the ionosphere, an electrically conductive layer that encircles the earth. Large differences in voltage can exist between storm clouds and the ionosphere, just as they do between clouds and the ground. Impelled by such enormous voltages, lightning can invade either zone when the air--which is typically an electrical insulator--breaks down and provides a conductive path for electric currents to follow. 

Electromagnetic Pulses

Because the atmosphere becomes less dense with increasing altitude, the lightning that happens at greater heights involves fewer air molecules and produces colors not seen in typical discharges. Usually they appear red and are only faintly visible. Thus, researchers must employ sensitive video cameras to record these events against the backdrop of the darkened night sky. The feebleness of the light given off and the transient nature of such emissions combine to present severe technical challenges to the researchers involved in studying these ghostly atmospheric events. Nevertheless, in just a few years investigators have made considerable progress in understanding them. 

Elves
Blue Jets
Two of us (Sentman and Wescott) have mounted airborne research campaigns using specially outfitted jets. All three of us (and many others) have also studied high-altitude electrical activity from the ground: for example, we gather every year at the invitation of Walter A. Lyons, a scientist at ASTeR in Fort Collins, Colo., and set up our equipment in his backyard laboratory--a site that offers an unobstructed view of the night sky over the thunderstorms of the Great Plains. (The images on pages 56 and 58 are views from this informal observatory.) Umran S. Inan and his colleagues at Stanford University have also recorded low-frequency radio waves from Lyons's home, measurements that have helped them to formulate theoretical models. 
Gamma-Ray and
X-Ray Events

The newly discovered electrical events of the upper atmosphere fall into four categories. Two types of high-level lightning, termed sprites and elves, appear (despite their fanciful names) to be manifestations of well-understood atmospheric physics. The causes for the other two varieties, called blue jets and gamma-ray events, remain more speculative. But our research group and many others around the world are still amassing our observations in hopes of deciphering the physical mechanisms driving these strange occurrences as well. Until that time, we must admit something like the ancient sense of awe and wonder when we contemplate these curious bursts of energy that dance through the ethereal world between earth and space. 


Further Reading

DISCOVERY OF INTENSE GAMMA-RAY FLASHES OF ATMOSPHERIC ORIGIN. G. J. Fishman, P. N. Bhat, R. Mallozzi, J. M. Horack, T. Koshut, C. Kouveliotou, G. N. Pendleton, C. A. Meegan, R. B. Wilson, W. S. Paciesas, S. J. Goodman and H. J. Christian in Science, Vol. 264, pages 1313-1316; May 27, 1994.

PRELIMINARY RESULTS FROM THE SPRITES94 AIRCRAFT CAMPAIGN, 1: RED SPRITES. D. D. Sentman, E. M. Wescott, D. L. Osborne, D. L. Hampton and M. J. Heavner in Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 22, No. 10, pages 1205-1208; May 15, 1995.

PRELIMINARY RESULTS FROM THE SPRITES94 AIRCRAFT CAMPAIGN, 2: BLUE JETS. E. M. Wescott, D. Sentman, D. Osborne, D. Hampton and M. Heavner in Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 22, No. 10, pages 1209-1212; May 15, 1995.

ELVES: LIGHTNING-INDUCED TRANSIENT LUMINOUS EVENTS IN THE LOWER IONOSPHERE. H. Fukunishi, Y. Takahashi, M. Kubota, K. Sakanoi, U. S. Inan and W. A. Lyons in Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 23, No. 16, pages 2157-2160; August 1, 1996. 

Science

Geophysical Research Letters


Related Links

Sprites, Q-Bursts and Positive Ground Strokes

Walter Lyons' Handy Weather Answer Book

Red Sprites and Blue Jets


The Authors

STEPHEN B. MENDE, DAVIS D. SENTMAN and EUGENE M. WESCOTT have spent much of their time during recent years investigating curious electrical activity of the upper atmosphere. Mende received a Ph.D. in physics from Imperial College at the University of London in 1965. From 1967 to 1996 he worked for Lockheed Palo Alto Research Laboratory. Mende is currently a fellow at the space sciences laboratory of the University of California, Berkeley. Sentman studied space physics under James Van Allen at the University of Iowa, where he earned his doctorate in 1976. After 14 years at the University of California, Los Angeles, Sentman joined the physics department at the University of Alaska-Fairbanks, where he now serves on the faculty. Wescott received a Ph.D. in geophysics from the University of Alaska-Fairbanks in 1964. He worked for three years at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland before returning to the University of Alaska-Fairbanks as a professor of geophysics. 



LINK


SPRITES are high-altitude luminous flashes that take place above thunderstorms in a part of the atmosphere called the mesosphere. Although sprites are usually rare, some storms can spawn them frequently. Typically the upper parts of clouds are charged positively and the lower parts negatively. Most often, it is the negative base of the cloud that flashes to the ground. But at times the upper, positive part can discharge directly to the earth, producing a lightning flash of exceptional intensity. About one out of 20 such positive cloud-to-ground lightning bolts are sufficiently energetic that they spawn sprites. These examples, recorded from the ground with a monochromatic video camera, have been colorized to match a color image obtained from an aircraft.

LINK


LIGHTNING (below, left) usually carries negative charge from the base of a cloud down to the earth. Sometimes powerful strokes (center) cause the positive charge that had built up near the top of the cloud to disappear abruptly. The large electrical field (gradation in color) created between the cloud top and the ionosphere pulls electrons upward, where they collide with gas molecules. If the electrical field is sufficiently strong and the air sufficiently thin, the electrons will accelerate unimpeded and reach the velocity needed to transfer their kinetic energy to the electronic structure of the molecules with which they collide, raising such molecules to an "excited state." The excited molecules give away their newly acquired energy by the emission of light, causing sprites (below, right). They typically span from 50 to 90 kilometers altitude. 

LINK





28 posted on 02/11/2003 8:58:09 PM PST by Sabertooth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jlogajan
Since you are invoking someone named Captain Queeg and keys to food lockers, I can guess you have never done a formal accident investigation. I have done a couple of big ones.

1) You don't throw away THE most direct evidence you have like a set of photos of impact showing a high probability of damage that could be the root cause of the loss of vehicle. 2) The other possible causes should have been included immediately, but weren't.

That adds up to 2 significant problems in two successive days with the investigation by NASA.

On top of that, Ron Dittemore has made many technical mistakes in his presentations, such as repeatedly calling the failure analysis process "reverse engineering", and repeatedly calling the liberated pieces of foam "tiles".

NASA has a lot of problems, not the least of which is explaining away the 1997 report by NASA engineer Greg Katnik.

And another thing. I would appreciate if you would curb the insults too. Otherwise keep them, and your posts, to yourself, OK?
29 posted on 02/11/2003 9:00:56 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
You don't throw away THE most direct evidence

Nobody threw away anything. And you know it.

30 posted on 02/11/2003 9:05:30 PM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ohmage
Ha, well that was a kooky read. Where do they come up with nutty ideas like that??
31 posted on 02/11/2003 9:15:02 PM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
NASA does have a protective re-entry method.

May of 2000, Atlantis suffered similar damage to tiles and were instructed ( or programmed? I'm not familiar with their procedure ) to adjust their re-entry angle because of NASA concerns.

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/3/021116-3583-010.html

32 posted on 02/11/2003 9:20:26 PM PST by ohmage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: We Happy Few
"klaatu barata nikto"
- Michael Rennie to Gort (as well as Patricia Neal)
33 posted on 02/11/2003 9:21:10 PM PST by WhatWouldReaganDo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: jlogajan
from:http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/06/national/nationalspecial/06XSHU.html?ex=1045630800&en=20c7486692c50579&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

NASA Now Doubts Tank Foam Debris Doomed Columbia
By JOHN M. BRODER

HOUSTON, Feb. 5 — NASA officials expressed doubt today that a piece of foam from the external fuel tank that struck the shuttle Columbia during its liftoff could have led to the destruction of the ship.

On Monday, officials identified damage caused by the impact during the launching on Jan. 16 as a prime suspect in the series of failures that led to the Columbia's breakup over Texas on Saturday.

But today, Ron D. Dittemore, the shuttle program manager, said that he and other NASA officials did not believe that the lightweight insulating material could have caused sufficient damage to be a primary cause of the shuttle's disintegration.

"Right now, it just does not make sense to us that a piece of debris would be the root cause for the loss of Columbia and its crew," Mr. Dittemore said at a briefing this afternoon at the Johnson Space Center here. "We don't believe it's this chunk of foam. It's got to be something else that we don't know about."

---------------------

This is gross incompetence by NASA. They are dismissing the most obvious suspect out of hand, on speculation alone, without the substantiation to do so. That, in the jargon, is throwing it away. There is also strong motivation by NASA management to have the root cause be an act of God and not the foam.

34 posted on 02/11/2003 9:23:27 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: jlogajan
You're gonna hafta click the link at the bottom of the page and ask him if you really want to know.

35 posted on 02/11/2003 9:26:02 PM PST by ohmage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ohmage
Thanks for the link, interesting info. I remember Discovery coming back on 51D in 1985 with the left wing burned through to the frame at the glove. They were lucky not to have lost that one.
36 posted on 02/11/2003 9:26:57 PM PST by HighWheeler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
NASA officials have said they are looking for a "missing link" to explain the shuttle's breakup that killed seven astronauts Saturday, and they are downplaying the theory that foam insulation falling from the shuttle's extra tank may have contributed to the shuttle's demise.

Keep me posted. However, until more conclusive evidence comes up I believe that the space shuttle disaster was due to detachment of some of its tiles.

37 posted on 02/11/2003 9:46:40 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Thinkin' Gal
I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

The angel Michael. Archangel of fire. Angel of the sun.

You think he had something to do with the shuttle?

38 posted on 02/11/2003 9:55:57 PM PST by jd777
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Robert_Paulson2
It looks more like scalar electromagnetic weapons to me. Specifically a scalar interferometer. It will be interesting to see how the photographic proof of the next generation of Scalar Warfare is treated by the government.
39 posted on 02/11/2003 10:13:26 PM PST by forester (put foresters back in the forest ... abolish environmental paperwork!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
Nasa needs to contact Art Bell
40 posted on 02/11/2003 10:13:46 PM PST by allodialman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
This is gross incompetence by NASA. They are dismissing the most obvious suspect out of hand, on speculation alone, without the substantiation to do so. That, in the jargon, is throwing it away. There is also strong motivation by NASA management to have the root cause be an act of God and not the foam.

Nobody's DISMISSING anything. I haven't heard anyone from NASA completely rule out the "impact" to the wing during launch as a cause of the breakup of the shuttle. All I've heard is that "it does not make sense to us" that this would be the only cause. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but when the engineering calculations suggest to look elsewhere, then the only responsible course of action is to seek other causes. At least until the investigators get the OK to fire a bowling ball at the wing of one of the other shuttles to observe the damage that MAY HAVE resulted from the impact.

And to say that NASA's statements expressing doubt about the foam insulation being the cause of the disaster are based on "speculation" is ludicrous. One could just as easily argue that it is highly speculative to include the foam insulation among possible causes.

41 posted on 02/11/2003 10:13:50 PM PST by kwyjibo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: HighWheeler
That, in the jargon, is throwing it away.

Okay, you've weaselled out of words having any sort of meaning with good old Clinton parsing tactics.

In fact, no possibility has been ruled out by NASA. So you are just passing a lot of hot air signifying nothing.

42 posted on 02/11/2003 10:34:49 PM PST by jlogajan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
Thank you for the article and links. Interesting read.
43 posted on 02/11/2003 10:45:16 PM PST by Phil V.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: WhatWouldReaganDo; We Happy Few
Sorry not to reply earlier but I was away from the computer.

I saw this film when it first came out. Which kind of reveals my age. Then I saw it later on television in the late 1960's. My recollection was that those famous words were spoken by Klatu to the character played by Patricia Neal and again by Patricia Neal to the giant robot Gort.

Have to admit my memory was fuzzy on who the female lead was but I recall the scene vividly. The terrified woman looking up at the robot as he was about to vaporize her with his particle beam ...

So I went to Google and looked up the movie, 'The Day the Earth Stood Still.'

I found many *.wav files which include both the 'Klatu, barata, nicto' comments from the film including the command to Gort to not destroy the earth, made by Patricia Neal's character 'Helen.'

Klickity Klick Klick to view all the *.wav files

44 posted on 02/11/2003 11:24:44 PM PST by ex-Texan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: We Happy Few
Don't remember his name, but Patricia Neil? girlfriend, and he said the words to his robot or droid...
45 posted on 02/11/2003 11:34:40 PM PST by Terridan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth; ex-Texan; All


46 posted on 02/12/2003 2:25:38 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye SADdam. You're soon to meet your buddy Stalin in Hades.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: All


http://www.wfaa.com/watchvideo/index.jsp?SID=3683978
Requires RealPlayer


Amateur tape shows what appears to be an object
breaking off Columbia over Arizona.

Video shows shuttle may have shed debris over Arizona -
check out this video taken by amateurs

Video link: Shuttle over D/FW, Texas

Very close-up, slo-mo of the Columbia launch debris






ROBERT McCULLOUGH / © 2003, DMN

Space shuttle Columbia disintegrated as it hurtled
across North Texas shortly before 8 a.m. Saturday.
The image was taken in Flower Mound.


47 posted on 02/12/2003 2:26:02 AM PST by MeekOneGOP (Bu-bye SADdam. You're soon to meet your buddy Stalin in Hades.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ex-Texan
We have a winner!
48 posted on 02/12/2003 3:14:57 AM PST by We Happy Few ("we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother;")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: yooper
NASA was in radio contact with the shuttle throughout.

No it wasn't. There is a point during reentry where the reentering vehicle is unable to maintain radio contact with the ground (or anyone else for that matter) because the heat plume around the vehicle interferes with radio waves.

49 posted on 02/12/2003 3:22:26 AM PST by Junior (The New World Order stole your tag line)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: All
Another left-wing conspiracy.
50 posted on 02/12/2003 3:32:11 AM PST by zygoat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson