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The Nature Conservancy's "outrageous contradictions and sad lies."
Paragon America News (PAN) ^ | February 12, 2003 | J. Zane Walley

Posted on 02/12/2003 2:40:21 PM PST by yoe

"Twelve million acres in the U.S., an area the size of Switzerland, is controlled by the The Nature Conservancy"

The most shocking exposé in America today is in a new publication from RANGE magazine. In "Nature's Landlord," investigative reporter Tim Findley explores "the world's most powerful environmental group, The Nature Conservancy." Findley calls TNC "the monster we made from indifference" and shows how it has carefully and methodically achieved global power on a scale few could imagine. He traces the history of the TNC from its modest origins to its current status as a behemoth with nearly $3 billion (tax-exempt) and worldwide control of some 90 million acres. Twelve million acres in the U.S., an area the size of Switzerland, is controlled by the TNC.

"Nature's Landlord" is not just a compendium of facts and figures. It is a masterpiece of brilliant writing that will fascinate readers. You'll meet "the shyly informed college boy in his neatly pressed blue work shirt" who insinuated his way into the heart of a small community. His real goal was to "seek weaknesses"-people who could be pressured into selling off their land. The TNC admits that it "helps the government get around the problem of local opposition" to property acquisition. TNC, cloaked in environmental benevolence, buys "these properties when they need to be bought, so that at some point we can become willing seller" to the government. As one 75-year-old rancher and poet said, "I had no choice, really. They [the TNC] bought everything around me. I'm just tired of fighting with 'em." The "college boy" who watched her lose her home is now the head of TNC in California.

Ranches across the West have fallen into the hands of TNC "like overripe fruit dropping from a shaken tree." On Virginia's Eastern Shore there was once a sustainable system of food production and ecology, but TNC changed all that. Operating covertly under a variety of names, TNC "saved" the area, putting a largely minority labor force out of work, deepening the scourge of poverty in the area. The "saved" islands were "served with opulent showplaces built for rich clients, all unaffordable to the people of the Eastern Shore."

Findley exposes many more instances of TNC's "outrageous contradictions and sad lies." He points to the mineral, gas and oil rights acquired by TNC under the guise of "saving" lands. For instance, TNC "saved" an endangered bird only to pump at least $5.5 million worth of oil and gas royalties, so far, from beneath its habitat. A million acres of timberland in Maine and New Hampshire are logged by TNC. A swath of American land larger than the state of Delaware was traded to a foreign power without a word from the American press and public. Two million acres of TNC land in the United States was swapped to the government of Brazil in exchange for Amazon rainforest.

It's not just member contributions that sustain TNC. Its chairman says trolling for 25-buck members is wasted effort. Appealing to wealthy corporations is "just a greater return." Besides, between 1995 and 2000, TNC raked in more than $32 million from the U.S. government-your tax dollars at work.

A report by professional ecologist Jeff Goodson on "The Network," describes a system of data centers with nearly 300 centers worldwide that collect and dispense biodiversity data, and include support for land-use planning, environmental impact assessment and endangered species management. Tax dollars and wealthy foundations supported TNC's program that has become "an environmental espionage and land-targeting program" that "collaborates closely" with the federal government.

It is future generations we should be concerned about, Findley writes. We need to bring "some accountability to a small group of people with grossly exaggerated power and authority over fundamental elements of a free society."

Copies of the 24-page, 4-color report "Nature's Landlord" are available from the RANGE (1-800-726-4348) while supplies last. Copies of RANGE magazine including "Nature's Landlord" are also available.

Paragon America is a rural advocacy non-profit organization.


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: landgrab; landlord; nature; shocking
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1 posted on 02/12/2003 2:40:21 PM PST by yoe
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To: yoe; AuntB; Grampa Dave
Ping!
2 posted on 02/12/2003 2:55:34 PM PST by Inspectorette
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To: Inspectorette
Thanks for the ping!
3 posted on 02/12/2003 3:01:00 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: farmfriend; madfly
fyi
4 posted on 02/12/2003 3:02:37 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: Grampa Dave
Well, this is the kind of under-the-radar stuff that we only hear about after it's too late. Figured you and AuntB should know about it.

The worst part is that we taxpayers gave this gang $32 million between 1995-2000 :-(

5 posted on 02/12/2003 3:04:42 PM PST by Inspectorette
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To: yoe
As a Conservative, I am naturally repulsed by Big Government, Big Business, Big Charity, Big Religion, Big Foundations and Big Greenie's.

As night follows day, they will all begin to act in their own best interest (esp. those of the exec. committees), rather than in the interest to the cause of their founding.

6 posted on 02/12/2003 3:08:00 PM PST by elbucko
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To: Inspectorette
Who was president from 1995-2000 ?

How much money did TNC give to the Clintoons and other rat politicians during that time?
7 posted on 02/12/2003 3:08:25 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: yoe
read later
8 posted on 02/12/2003 3:18:18 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: yoe
Now wait just a minute here. I have a job that requires me, periodically, to work on various lands owned or controlled by the Nature Conservancy, and I can state that they are not at all the sort of folks they are portrayed as being in this post. Everyone from their organization that I have met has been utterly cooperative, friendly, and low-key. They support hunting, logging (where appropriate...that logging of 1 million acres in Maine, provides desparately needed nesting habitat for woodcock, for example), and other traditional uses of land. This post was nothing but demagogic propaganda. Those of you who take it seriously, have just been scammed.
9 posted on 02/12/2003 3:29:52 PM PST by Renfield
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To: Renfield; Carry_Okie
Tell that to the "willing sellers".
10 posted on 02/12/2003 8:55:46 PM PST by nunya bidness (Your ad here!)
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To: Renfield
They are very good at deception, as are all good con men.

See Ron Arnold's site, www.undueinfluence.com for more info.

11 posted on 02/13/2003 7:25:58 AM PST by madfly
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To: Free the USA; backhoe; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Libertarianize the GOP; freefly; 2sheep; expose; ...
TNC piing
12 posted on 02/13/2003 7:29:51 AM PST by madfly
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To: Renfield; Carry_Okie; nunya bidness; Grampa Dave
The Nature Conservancy is "utterly cooperative, friendly, and low-key" in carrying out an agenda that happens to be right in line with U.N.'s Agenda 21, Man and the Biosphere, Wildlands and Sustainable Development initiaitves ... all of which are abjectly anti-American, anti-soveriegnty, anti-individual liberty and a basic threat to our way of life.

They were in the thick of the efforts to drive 1500 families off of their land in the Klamath Basin Crisis of 2001 which was averted only at great risk and much travail and hardship ... and still is far from a sure thing.

Many people are being scammed, including many within the ranks of the Conservancy itself, who are being taken advantage of as classical "useful idiots" by the Conservancy's store front face.

Look beyond that face to the agenda and what it lines up with. That will reveal the true nature.

13 posted on 02/13/2003 8:07:20 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
TNC thugs are so bad that they scared even the lefty and moderate nannies in our local flood control program.

Apparently, there was so closed door meeting, and so very liberal and very rich and elite vineyard owners figured out if the TNC was involved, they might be selling their vineyards for pennies. I can still evoke terror by just mentioning that maybe we should get TNC involved in the project even at the late stage.
14 posted on 02/13/2003 8:10:54 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: Grampa Dave
Not surprising. Many of the left-leaning, self-promoting individuals (today known as liberals) see their own agendas and purposes threatened by the overall, abjectly socialist/marxist U.N. end-game agenda of TNC.

To those of us who value individual liberty, soveriegnty, property rights and a true free market, all of which are based on faith and morality ... both sets of culprits lead to the same end ... that is a destruction of those very values and principles.

It is why we must fight them at every turn ... and be wise in that fight.

15 posted on 02/13/2003 8:24:10 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
"If you want to 'save' it, buy it!"

The Nature Conservancy follows that emininently conservative principle....which is free market property rights respecting to the core.

Many conservatives may not know that real enviromental wacko/weenies, such as the Sierra Club, the Green party, Enviromental Defense Fund, etc. regard the TNC as traitors to their cause... since TNC does actually does purchase land--respecting private property rights...rather then zone or regulate people out of their property rights--and as pointed out above, the TNC respects hunting, logging, even oil drilling--when done responsibly.

People...this was a left wing hit piece on the most democratic and American of all enviromental groups. No doubt the author of the book reviewed see's TNC as way too freemarket and capitalist for his pink/green vision of the world.
16 posted on 02/13/2003 8:35:53 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Inspectorette; madfly; 1Old Pro; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; a_federalist; abner; aculeus; ...
"The worst part is that we taxpayers gave this gang $32 million between 1995-2000 :-( "

I'd say that it's time to plug the money pipe, and end tax exemptions for these Urth wershipers.

How will we ever get on top of this if we continue to fund the opposition?

17 posted on 02/13/2003 8:40:47 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Best policy RE: Environmentalists, - ZERO TOLERANCE !!)
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To: AnalogReigns
What bothers me about TNC is that they make sure that they get favorable conditions via legislative fiat before they start engaging in "free market capitalist" solutions.

Long before TNC starts spending money buying land, they make some strategeric campaign donations, and the land they want suddenly gets zoned as open space--and hence unusable. No one is going to buy it, except for TNC. When you have only one customer, you pay what the customer offers, or you don't sell--and you pay property taxes based on the last sale price, many times what the land can actually be sold for.

After TNC buys the land, they sprinkle a few more donations, and all of a sudden, that virgin, untouchable land can be logged, mined, or used for "low-density habitation' (read: a luxurious lodge can be built for occupancy by TNC bigwigs and their cronies).
18 posted on 02/13/2003 8:42:41 AM PST by Poohbah (Beware the fury of a patient man -- John Dryden)
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To: AnalogReigns
Sorry, the TNC is not all-American. They go into situatons like those created in Klamath by their environmental/leftist/judicial allies and offer to buy beleagured farmers land for pennies on the dollar. Those who feel thay have no other option sell-out.

Fortunately, in Klamath much of this was avoided (but not all) by the actions of local and regional private citizens who helped their neighbors get through.

The net result for the land that is bought up, either by TNC or other imilar efforts (some by our own government) is that productive, free-market land is taken out of the system ... and it just so happens that much of the land so decommissioned is right in line with the UN Agenda's I referenced above.

That's not an accident. I believe the TNC is an official NGO with the UN.

Either way, I have seen them in action, as has Grampa Dave and many other FRreepers out here in the west, and they are no friend to the free-market or our way of life.

19 posted on 02/13/2003 8:45:13 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Poohbah
In just 3 paragraphs, you have present an excellent summary of how TNC operates:

What bothers me about TNC is that they make sure that they get favorable conditions via legislative fiat before they start engaging in "free market capitalist" solutions.

Long before TNC starts spending money buying land, they make some strategeric campaign donations, and the land they want suddenly gets zoned as open space--and hence unusable. No one is going to buy it, except for TNC. When you have only one customer, you pay what the customer offers, or you don't sell--and you pay property taxes based on the last sale price, many times what the land can actually be sold for.

After TNC buys the land, they sprinkle a few more donations, and all of a sudden, that virgin, untouchable land can be logged, mined, or used for "low-density habitation' (read: a luxurious lodge can be built for occupancy by TNC bigwigs and their cronies).

20 posted on 02/13/2003 8:54:00 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
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To: Renfield
"This post was nothing but demagogic propaganda."

Yes, we know your post was demagogic propaganda.

21 posted on 02/13/2003 9:00:39 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: editor-surveyor
BTTT!!!!!!
22 posted on 02/13/2003 9:09:42 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Grampa Dave
I don't have a problem with the concept of TNC--I just wish that they would be more honest in their dealings.
23 posted on 02/13/2003 9:10:14 AM PST by Poohbah (Beware the fury of a patient man -- John Dryden)
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To: yoe
BUMP...
24 posted on 02/13/2003 9:32:48 AM PST by tubebender (?)
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To: Renfield; Jeff Head
Everyone from their organization that I have met has been utterly cooperative, friendly, and low-key. Those of you who take it seriously, have just been scammed.

The TNC is the principle player in manipulating the value of the residential real estate market to benefit big developers. They usually get their land from its owners as a last desperate effort to avoid Federal takeover, whether by regulatory means or estate taxes. The price they pay is that of a distressed sale, under the threat of regulatory action, the prospect of which they often foment themselves by colluding with agency personnel. They then turn around and sell the land back to the agency for a profit (or to developers), assuring future revenue for both TNC and agency with your tax dollars! It's basic tax-exempt racketeering.

Further, the land that ends up "preserved" is then taken out of production forever. No taxes are derived by local government, which then becomes dependent upon increasing urban development. As the retirees and bureaucrats move in, the demographics totally change, as do the politics. Land use decisions then more often reflect political values and interests than objective science.

You see, neither the TNC nor the government are very good stewards. I know you may not believe that (and I was once with you in believing that they did good work), but you would hate learn what the rangelands they have taken over look like now (unless you think thousands of acres of saltcedar is a good thing). TNC is continuing to demphasize its operational land management side by policy (and its CEO has put that in writing). Such takeovers may have pleased their financial supporters who are exporting the cattle business to South America, but it wasn't good for the land. Best you learn the facts and (more importantly) what the alternatives might be, before you so vehemently assert their beningn intent, or their innocence.

Is that what you wanted Jeff?

25 posted on 02/13/2003 9:36:54 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie
I see as part of the problem here, that perhaps the TNC opperates differently in the West than in the East. Here in Virginia....where some 90%+ of the land is privately held anyway--I've only seen and heard of TNC operating honorably. In the West, where some states have 95%+ of the land held by government anyway, that may not still hold true.

Problematic in the West though too, is the fact that a) agriculture and the farm industry are by far THE most socialistic part of our economy, and b) much of the water programs (dams et als. )(not much of an issue in the East) were from the very start government/socialistic projects. This makes any changes in the government created benefits of water to farmers...problematic....but at root can't be viewed in any real sense as government interference---since the benefit of water--was originally from government, not by right.

Socialism's ultimate economic flaw is "what the government gives, the government can take away."

In that sense still, TNC has tried (and I'm not saying at all they've suceeded) to operate within the free market. Again, I can't say what's gone on in the West, as I'm not there.
26 posted on 02/13/2003 9:50:56 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Renfield; AAABEST
Barf, What kind of drugs do you take. Or do you wear Rose Colored glasses.
27 posted on 02/13/2003 11:04:10 AM PST by TonyWojo
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To: Renfield
I think you're right. The Democrats would rather see Big Government in control of every scrap of wilderness in the US, rather than a private organization funded by voluntary donations.
28 posted on 02/13/2003 11:34:12 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
If you look at the TNC web site www.nature.org you can find the financial reports for 2000/2001.

In 200 there were Government awards totaling Sixty Million and some change and in 2001 Government awards of Sixty Three Million and some change.

Is this what you refer to as voluntary donations.

Now they also derive income from the sale of land to Government and other Consrvation Agencies. Those figures are Eighty Two Million in 2000 and Eighty Three Million in 2001.

Sales to Government Agencies I guess the Democrats grant the money for TNC to purchase land and then the Government buys it from them.

Sweet deal for the TNC

29 posted on 02/13/2003 12:07:22 PM PST by TonyWojo
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To: editor-surveyor
Protect Private Property Rights!

Stop the attacks on our Freedoms by the wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's and their toadies in the media!

Protect The Forest...Eradicate The Greenies!

Fighting Irresponsible Radical Environmentalism!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Be Well - Be Armed - Be Safe - Molon Labe!

Let's Roll!
30 posted on 02/13/2003 12:08:36 PM PST by blackie
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To: mvpel
I think you're right. The Democrats would rather see Big Government in control of every scrap of wilderness in the US, rather than a private organization funded by voluntary donations.

That's not how it works, and that's not what it's for. The Slave Party doesn't give a hang who hands out the favors as long as they control how it's done.

31 posted on 02/13/2003 1:02:47 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: yoe
TNC has worked hard to promote this warm, "we're here to help you" appearance, but the fact is they are far from this. In the west they work hand in hand with the USFS and BLM in a conspiracy to find "willing sellers."

If TNC wants your ranch and you tell them to go pound salt, you can expect a visit from your friendly local Forest Service range conservation officer or biologist or someone from one of the agencies.

You will be told that your allotment is overgrazed and you will have to immediately remove 50% of your cattle, or there is a certain plant on your range or private property and you will have to obtain a permit before you can plant next year's alfalfa crop. The pressure keeps up until you are forced into the "willing seller" catagory.

The Nature Conservancy is the biggest con outfit going and the taxpayers are getting screwed royally.
32 posted on 02/13/2003 1:07:04 PM PST by Cuttnhorse (Never Give an Inch)
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To: editor-surveyor
Exactly.

We generously & carelkessly fund our leftist enemies, propagandisits agaqinst capitalism, & free markets, and freedom (like NPR, which is campaigning shamelessly full-time against Bush administration -- and war with Saddam),

--- especially the radical-envoiros with tax dollars ---

& heretofore the GOP Senate & House & the administration seem to lack the vigilance an political WILL to END this travesty.

However, that may be CHANGING (slowly) with the Bush administration, (e.g,. Mitch Daniels at OMB), and a few vigilant members of Congress.

33 posted on 02/13/2003 1:07:51 PM PST by FReethesheeples
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To: yall
Also, a big bump and thank you to RANGE Magazine. RANGE and CJ Hadley are making a difference.
34 posted on 02/13/2003 1:08:34 PM PST by Cuttnhorse (Never Give an Inch)
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To: editor-surveyor
The sad truth is that there is no desire to defund this monstrocity. Our ELECTED AND NONELECTED officials support the cause of big government and the socialist ownership of as much land as possible. Independent landowners are opposed to government excesses so it is in the Federal government's interest to get as many off the land as possible.
35 posted on 02/13/2003 1:40:56 PM PST by meenie
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To: Jeff Head
The Klamath Basin "reclamation" project was a pipe-dream from the beginning; I believe agriculture to be insupportable there, in the long run. Much of Western agriculture exists only because Eastern taxpayers are fleeced to subsidize the water Western farmers use. If the Klamath Basin were returned to native vegetation, American taxpayers would be better off.
36 posted on 02/13/2003 4:43:48 PM PST by Renfield
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To: editor-surveyor
He traces the history of the TNC from its modest origins to its current status as a behemoth with nearly $3 billion (tax-exempt) and worldwide control of some 90 million acres. Twelve million acres in the U.S., an area the size of Switzerland, is controlled by the TNC.

Wow! These people are just thieves committing themselves to the destruction of industries and of people's livelihood.

37 posted on 02/13/2003 8:06:03 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Renfield
You do not understand the Klamath reclamation project at all as it was intended. The farmers paid off all of the construction costs ... times over. The Federal government never made good on its end of the bargain to privatise the project as it was intended.

In todays world, it is easy to say that they should have not gotten into bed with the Feds at all ... and in todays world that would be absolutely correct. But a hundred years ago feelings, trust and conditions were different in this regard.

You also do not understand the west and its agriculture. Much of the land is very fetile, supportable and very productive. It just needs water. The water comes in the mountains each year in the winter in the form of snow and can be stored behind dams for summer use fairly easily. This was happening long before the federal government got involved ... the Mormon Pioneers and other western pioneers are good examles of this.

There is definite fleecing going on as respects agriculture in our nation ... and in many other areas as the socialization continues. The way agriculture has been regulated and in some areas subsdidized is not the American way ... and it has to stop.

But irrigation projects, particularly those that were designed from the get go to be paid off and privatized and run privately are not part of the fleecing. Most of the farmers in the Klamath Basin are small, individual farmers who are eaking out a living on the land with the water that they have paid for, and that was originally stored in Klamath Lake for that purpose.

Until you get out here and meet some of these folks and understand their issues ... and what the real bottom line is ... all of the statements about agriculture being unsupportable in such a basin are not much more than a mouthing of the liberal/environmental mantra IMHO.

Thinking that most western agriculture exists only because eastern taxpayers are being fleeced for it is just as unsupportable. As I said, irrigiation was happening out here long before the Federal govenment got involved. Had their involvement remained true to such projects as the Klamath Basin project, where farmers paid for the construction costs and were supposed to have the system privatized, we would not have these types of problems today ... but the eastern and western politicians and their appointed administrators got too power hungry IMHO.

Anyhow, you are feel to free however you wish. I am sorry that your opinion of good, hard working, faithful and loyal Americans and their livelihood is so skewed.

38 posted on 02/13/2003 9:10:20 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Renfield
What about the families that have lived on that land for generations, breaking their butts trying to raise their children? As to Eastern taxpayers being fleeced, how about Amtrack, subsidized heating oil, etc, etc?
39 posted on 02/13/2003 10:40:50 PM PST by bybybill (It`s just for the fish and then the children)
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To: Renfield
So why is some logging "appropriate", but logging on private land always "inappropriate"? Doesn't logged land always provide more habitat for some creatures and take it away from others? Either you are missing the whole point of this post, or worse. These people are hypocrites, and destroying the foundations of a free society.
40 posted on 02/14/2003 5:33:52 AM PST by Iconoclast2
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To: Iconoclast2
I don't know where you got the idea that I think logging on private land is innapropriate; I didn't say that. And I get the point of the piece, but don't agree with it.
41 posted on 02/14/2003 6:33:45 AM PST by Renfield (13)
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To: Renfield
Would you agree that it is incompatible with a Free Republic for the government to take tax money and use it to tie up more and more land, either directly or in cooperation with TNC? Would you agree that it does violence to the Constitution, insofar as that document was designed to ensure limited powers of the Federal government, for the Federal government to engage in this activity at all?
42 posted on 02/14/2003 11:08:15 AM PST by Iconoclast2
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To: Grampa Dave
Great question. I hope there's an answer below.
43 posted on 02/14/2003 11:35:51 AM PST by Quix (21st FREEPCARD FINISHED--going to get back to it soonish)
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To: Jeff Head
YOU'VE CONVINCED ME.

Have long felt the Feds and such others as TNC need to get the blazes off the Western States' heritage with very few TRULY TREASURED NATIONAL PARKS, military and Native American exceptions.

Ain't gonna happen.

The death dealers have a death grip on it and won't let go until Christ deals with them. But we should still fight when and where we can. It is worthwhile to stand up and be counted for sanity, decency etc.
44 posted on 02/14/2003 11:43:14 AM PST by Quix (21st FREEPCARD FINISHED--going to get back to it soonish)
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To: Carry_Okie
Strongly agree.

I've forgotten the details over the years, but their [BLM ETC] nonsense in NM, AZ, UT etc. that I used to routinely hear about were exceedingly stupid, ignorant and fraught with bureaucratic egos gone to seed.

The land was virtually ALWAYS MUCH WORSE OFF when they were done doing their bit 'in behalf of the land.'
45 posted on 02/14/2003 11:47:31 AM PST by Quix (21st FREEPCARD FINISHED--going to get back to it soonish)
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To: Cuttnhorse
And the BLM et al act like that SOP

is PATRIOTIC!!! Sheesh. What idiots.

Egos AND idiots gone to seed.
46 posted on 02/14/2003 11:51:35 AM PST by Quix (21st FREEPCARD FINISHED--going to get back to it soonish)
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To: Quix
Those dirt bags are manufacturing a desert on an almost unimaginable scale. Whole civilizations have been destroyed by this kind of thinking. They don't recover either.

Read any of Savory's stuff?
47 posted on 02/14/2003 11:51:50 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Guess I'm not really familiar with Savory's stuff.

Any better links? Trying to collect potent docs to disprove my Mentor's affinity for leftist conservationists.

48 posted on 02/14/2003 12:03:25 PM PST by Quix (21st FREEPCARD FINISHED--going to get back to it soonish)
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To: Iconoclast2
I would agree that those expenditures violate the 10th amendment, as do the bulk of current federal expenditures. Strict interpretation of the Constitution, in the current political climate, is a pipe dream. It would take a violent cataclysm (something on the order of a civil war) to return us to constitutuional government, and I don't see this happening in my life time, especially as those who most desire strict constitutionalism don't control tax revenues.
49 posted on 02/14/2003 12:35:07 PM PST by Renfield (13)
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To: Renfield; farmfriend; Carry_Okie
http://www.nationalcenter.org/dos7128.htm

This might help explain why TNC is not the good guys!
50 posted on 02/15/2003 1:02:41 PM PST by countrydummy
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