Avid faith may hamper presidential decisionmaking

The Deseret News ^ | 2/16/2003 | Paul R. Henggeler

[F.J. Mitchell]

I believe our President is doing exactly what our best Presidents, Reagan and Bush I would have done-case closed.

[snerkel]

Thanks for the ping. :)

I'll try to cool my jets before I comment on the article. LOL.

p.s. Congrats grandpa :D

[xzins]

Thanks.

I'm starting a grandchild collection....got any you wanna contribute? :>)

I intend to spoil them thoroughly, grin real big, and then hand them back to parents for correction and training.

[snerkel]

Blood of Tyrants said, "Christianity is not an excuse for timidity nor a reason to accept treatment like a doormat."

AMEN!

[Cindy]

The DnC crowd and other assorted liberals, anti-Americans, etc., prove on a daily basis that they are completely clueless regarding faith-based decisions.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." -from THE BIBLE: II Timothy 1:7

[snerkel]

I tried that once, but the grandparents brought them back to me and threatened to sue me for grandparent abuse. :D

[Pan_Yans Wife]

Well, I hesitate to say if Carter is a good Christian... I don't know that my own faith in Christianity could stand up to the same scrutiny by others.

However, before Bush was elected, I wondered if a devout Christian could effectively lead our country, because so much of the world's problems fall into a gray area. And, Bush does see things in black and white. I think Carter tried so hard to be good, and sometimes, as President, you have to make really hard decisions, that may not coincide with your religious beliefs completely. I think the world is a terrible place, and I also think that our country has done terrible things, in the past, for the right reasons. We have a lot of dark secrets.

And, I couldn't say that God wanted Carter to protect America, like you suggest that he failed to do. I don't know that God sees nations when he looks at the world.

But, I do think that should Bush rely on God's guidance, that our nation will be the better for it.

And Billy Graham may be right about Clinton making a good preacher, he would draw flocks to the church, if his heart was devoted to Christ, and he was called to preach. But, since we know he isn't, then Graham's statement was perhaps a little foolish. But, Graham loves Clinton, because Graham loves Christ.

[xzins]

LOL!

I've always enjoyed an adventure and a little danger! :>)

[ladyinred]

The faith upon which our most admired presidents drew strength was usually more ambiguous than Bush's and balanced with a rich humanity.

What garbage!!!!! The left is getting desperate now aren't they? Several articles attacking the President's faith? This is a new low.

Clinton was always blabbing about his faith and carrying a king sized Bible around. Did you hear anything about how dangerous that was? No! They will stoop to anything to attack W and I for one am getting more than sick of this!

The above statement is presuming that the faith of our former President's was less than genuine! How the heck do they know that? SHEESH!!!!! Same tactics they used to defend Clinton when they said that all President's were unfaithful to their wives!

[First Amendment]

Eleanor Roosevelt once asked her husband if he was convinced of the truth of Christian doctrine. "I never really thought much about it," he said. "I think it is just as well not to think about things like that too much."

Roosevelt, the patron saint of liberals, is the archetypical example of the elitist secular-humanist. He was one of the worst presidents this country ever had.

If a human being doesn't at least consider the teachings of Jesus or the meaning and purpose of life and death worth some serious thought, he's wasting his human life. What a shallow person.

[snerkel]

Ok, my response to this issue…

President Bush acknowledges that without Christ he would be in the same boat he was in years ago. He prays, uses the Bible to guide him, and looks to Jesus as an example. He quotes Scripture in his speeches and places his faith in God, not man.

It is no surprise to see him attacked for his belief in God. I have heard people state that he should not mention God or the Bible in his remarks and speeches because it is oppressive to those who do not follow the “Christian” God. I have seen people state that it is a violation of the Constitution for him to do so and then they quote the 1st Amendment and claim he is attempting to “turn this nation into a theocracy”. That is ludicrous.

President Bush’s faith may not be a guarantee for effective decisions, but one must take into consideration the extenuating circumstances involved in the final decisions of a President.

The article states, “Indeed, history suggests that strict religious doctrine can lead to black-and-white reasoning, especially during war.” It is my opinion that there are no gray areas where war is concerned, especially the pending war with Iraq.

“In weighing the momentous options over Iraq, the best question asked might not be what would Jesus do, but what might our best presidents have advised?”

This question/statement places the opinion of man over the example of Christ, does it not? Personally, I am not surprised to see this.

[anncoulteriscool]

****Our fine ex-prexy Sick Willie Clintoon carried about a Bible weighing about 25 pounds.****

Whenever I saw that I was always reminded of that old Amy Grant song where the lyric was: "He carries the biggest King James you've ever seen"....LOL!

[LadyDoc]

But sociological studies on the nature of professional conduct in organizational settings suggest that leaders who rely on religious templates when making decisions are less likely to make good decisions than those who consult experienced authority.

Wonder who made up the studies?

First, Andrew Greeley's sociological studies show that religious people tend to be more mature in other sociological measurements.

Second, I once attende a business seminar. One point the researcher brought up was that when he gave his talk to businessmen, he often afterward asked them if they prayed. He said that an amazing number of them did, but seemed to feel that few other businessmen did. "they were so eager to talk about it (how they prayed and how prayer fit into their business life) that they often would even drive me to the airport to have more time to discuss it."

Of course if you note the language, the article mentions "those who rely on religious templates"...this means people who don't think, and don't pray, but rely on a rigid belief system where actions are determined by a rigid rule system. I have relatives who act like this. I always say that they give "born again" Christians a bad name, because they project their obsessive compulsive traits onto religion. They take one rule out of context and use it to condemn other people. But of course most born again people are remade in the Lord: They recognize their sin was forgiven, and therefore are humble.

The author is showing their ignorance of religion, especially of Born again religion. They think the anti religious caricatures they see on tv are real.

[Darlin']

"In weighing the momentous options over Iraq, the best question asked might not be what would Jesus do, but what might our best presidents have advised? God will hopefully serve Bush well. But he might leave room for humility, the lessons of history and his often heralded instincts, street-smarts and common sense."

Oh, good grief. IMHO, this article says more about the writer's level of faith than the president's. Yes, President Bush is a Christian who starts each day reading the Bible and in prayer. And every night before I close my eyes I thank God we have this humble and courageous man as our President in these troubled times.

The assertion that,".. leaders who rely on religious templates when making decisions are less likely to make good decisions than those who consult experienced authority..." is a non-starter, people of deep abiding faith not only asks for God's guidance but for wisdom as well. Perhaps he had already consulted with experts or perhaps it was just God given wisdom that prompted him to tell his predecessor's wife that before we take action against terrorist in Afghanistan he wanted to be sure he wasn't sending a $20M missile through a $10.00 tent just to hit a camel in the butt

President Bush lives his faith unashamedly everyday and has said on more than one occasion he prays for guidance. Still, he doesn't wear his faith on his sleeve like some Bible thumping fanatic nor does he try to impose his beliefs on persons of other faiths. He is the President of the United States, to him that means all the people, of all faiths not just the Christian right and not just Republicans. Had this reporter bothered to listen to the nomination acceptance speech that then Governor Bush delivered at the RNC Convention the importance of his faith would have been apparent long ago. In his own words:

""I believe in tolerance, not in spite of my faith, but because of it.

I believe in a God who calls us, not to judge our neighbors, but to love them.

I believe in grace, because I have seen it ... In peace, because I have felt it ... In forgiveness, because I have needed it.

I believe true leadership is a process of addition, not an act of division. I will not attack a part of this country, because I want to lead the whole of it." - George W Bush, August 2000, RNC nomination

[Caipirabob]

Oh, Heaven forbid that we should alienate Satanists, heathens and athiests.

/sarcasm

[Dust in the Wind]

"In weighing the momentous options over Iraq, the best question asked might not be what would Jesus do, but what might our best presidents have advised?"

Or one could ask What would Jesus desire? and then refer to Matthew 28:18-20 ... And yes I understand some refuse to listen to any thoughts other than those compatible to what they were raised with. Traditions of men, yes?

[The Wizard]

this is the dumbest chit I have read in days

[Vic3O3]

Carter is a "good" Baptist, by all accounts, and walks with Jesus. However, he was a terrible president. Neatly demonstrating that devout Christianity doesn't necessarily lead to being a good President.

Perhaps it was God's will that Carter be a good Christian and a lousy President...thus making room for the likes of Reagan!

[TomSmedley]

A devout Presbyterian, Woodrow Wilson believed God ordained him to be president. "God save us from compromise," he once noted. "He who is not with me is against me." He defined America's entrance into the Great War as a moral crusade from which good must arise.

Actually, Wilson boasted of having outperformed Jesus. Our Lord, Wilson said, could only advocate "Peace on earth." His better, none other than WW, had actually implemented a "scheme" to bring the desired outcome to pass.

Wilson parted company with reality in the aftermath of committing adultery while president of Princeton.

[smith288]

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"We now learn from "The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush," a new book by ex-speechwriter and conservative thinker David Frum, that White House advisers attend Bible study groups not because they are required to but because they are expected to."

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Ummm...  I thought these are totally voluntary.  I dont see Bush as some theocratic boss forcing his employees into religious meetings.  He is a spiritual person and have heard through Fleisher that anyone who wants to go, goes.