Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES
2/22/2003

Posted on 02/22/2003 8:34:22 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.


TOPICS: Announcements; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 45acp; 9mm; ammo; ammobang; bang; banglist; cary; firearms; guns; secondamendment; stoppingpower
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 351-396 next last
To: Eaker

Don't tell anyone about this one.....Keep this to yourself........:o)

Stay Safe !

151 posted on 02/23/2003 10:28:39 AM PST by Squantos (Life is like an analogy...........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 142 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine; ConservativeLawyer
Swervie is right about the .45 auto. I find my Kimber CDP easier to handle than my .38 revolver. Reacquiring the target for a 2nd shot is easier and faster than with the .38. I keep it loaded with 230 JHP's in Chip McCormick Power Mags.
152 posted on 02/23/2003 10:43:29 AM PST by .38sw (girls with guns!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeLawyer
I would recommend a Glock 23 .40 handgun for concealed carry. It is a small and light handgun that holds 10 +1 rounds of effective .40 S&W ammunition. If your wife is recoil sensitive then this gun would probably not be a good choice. It does have some recoil when you fire it.

I hear the Walther P 99 .40 S&W handgun is good choice too.

Do not let her carry a gun in her purse. A purse is usually the first article a thief will grab.


This is a Glock 23

153 posted on 02/23/2003 11:39:24 AM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Polycarp
I personally don't like the Para Ordnance. My brother owns a .45 Para Ordnance handgun and I'm not impressed. It jams every now and again because the magazines are not very good quality.

What do you intend to use the pistol for? Concealed carry? Home defense?

You can't go wrong buying a Glock, Sig Sauer or Heckler and Koch. My next handgun purchase may be a Colt .45 Defender 90 series. I have heard good reviews about the .45 Colt Defender 90 Series. It holds 7 or 8 + 1 rounds of .45 ACP ammunition and it is very light and good for concealed carry.

I am also a fan of the Glock 30 and Glock 23. Both are also great handguns.


.45 Colt Defender 90 Series

154 posted on 02/23/2003 11:50:13 AM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: RobFromGa
I love my Kahr Arms .40. P9 Covert. It's tiny, easily concealable and fun to shoot.

The only problem I have with it is the normal clip leaves my pinky below the grips. With the extended clip though, its perfect for a medium to small grip.



155 posted on 02/23/2003 11:55:04 AM PST by Stopislamnow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: TC Rider
One more reason to love KelTec!
156 posted on 02/23/2003 12:00:08 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: Squantos
One doesn't see too many C&S Blade Runner Blasters these days!!!!

Good thing you didn't post a picture of it on the Internet!


Stay safe; stay armed.
Eaker FReeper Status

"The Era of Osama lasted about an hour, from the time the first plane hit the tower to the moment the General Militia of Flight 93 reported for duty."

157 posted on 02/23/2003 12:24:42 PM PST by Eaker (64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday. Somehow, it didn't make the news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: Eaker
I was gonna tell ya it was an 88 Magnum....it shoots thru schools.....

But figured you'd catch on to my fib soon enough :o)

Stay Safe !!

158 posted on 02/23/2003 12:28:12 PM PST by Squantos (Life is like an analogy...........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: RobFromGa
I have been leaning towards the 21 because it is bigger, I am a big guy. What do you Freepers think? I would also like to buy a shotgun and/or rifle for family defense. Any suggestions? I have kids in the 7-10 year old range at my house. Thanks? Any suggestions for safe storage? (I don't consider myself in imminent danger).

I love my Glock 23 for concealed carry, but I am leaning toward buying another gun because of the issue of no safety. About any kid picking up a Glock could discharge it. If you are using a semi-auto handgun for home defense there is the option of keeping the chamber empty with the magazine loaded to full capacity in the gun.

I think the Glock 30 is a better choice than the Glock 21 for a .45 handgun. The Glock 30 holds 10+1 rounds of .45 ammunition and is an easy to conceal firearm. I have had the pleasure of shooting a Glock 30 before and was surprised at how well it handled the .45 ACP round because the gun is so small. You can't get the Glock 21 13 round magazines anymore unless you want to pay over $80 for a 13 round magazine. The 10 round magazines for a Glock 21 cost about $21.50. 3 extra rounds aren't worth an extra $60 to me.

Gun Tests also gave a good review to the Colt .45 Defender 90 Series. The Glock would probably last longer than the Colt, but with the Colt you have a safety. (Sigh) So many guns so few dollars.

159 posted on 02/23/2003 12:33:19 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: Centurion2000
So where does a .454 with a 300 grain hollow point at 1600 fps rate?

If you're able to hit someone in the center of the chest with one of those rounds I am sure he will die. (You will probably not have hearing after the situation has ended and you have to buy a hearing aid for permanent ear damage.)

160 posted on 02/23/2003 12:37:10 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
I like the model of the Colt but I have to say one thing about those rubber grips. I had a set like that on my Springfield Ultra-Compact and after carrying the thing for a couple of hours against my skin on a hot day, I was having some problems with my skin. The checkering was sawing away at my side. After I took the grips off, I noticed a lot of corrosion. I replaced the grips with some smooth "ivory" grips and stopped the problem of my side and the salt accumulation.
161 posted on 02/23/2003 12:41:45 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Tijeras_Slim
Well, I've had a CCW for years, even got one in Fulton County where it's not easy to get. Cobb County was much more agreeable, of course by the time I moved there I'd carried one for twenty years without incident (thank God!). Of course you KNOW I'd recommend a .45 to just about anybody - at least to try. And at least you can always find parts for a 1911A1!

Gotta love the story of "Two Gun Charlie"! The world's a smaller place for not having folks like that anymore.

He was something else. I wish there was a photo of him somewhere on the net, this is a guy who could freeze you with a glance. He was BIG - 6'3, probably 250, solid muscle even late in life when I knew him. His head had straight sides and went right down into his neck, if you know what I mean, and his eyes were those cold steel Clint Eastwood grey eyes. There was never any nonsense in his courtroom, and every lawyer in the vicinity had a healthy respect for him. He once ordered the National Labor Relations Board not to set foot in Early County, and the NLRB sent a young lawyer down to ask him what gives. He invited the nice young man into his office, fixed him a Co-Cola, and said, "Now what can I do for you young man?" The lawyer said, "My superiors have sent me to ask you, very respectfully of course, by what authority a Georgia superior court judge can ban a federal agency from a county?" Worrill replied, "Tell your superiors to violate that order, just a little, and we'll see by whose authority." The young man kind of stammered, and said, "I think I am in the wrong place," thanked the judge for the Co-Cola, and left. - this true story was told by one of his former law clerks at his memorial service.

Here's a true story from my dad: he and a bunch of guys went dove hunting with Judge Worrill, and as they walked through a thicket there was a thrashing noise from a little way off, and there was a wild pig. He pawed and snorted, and everybody went up the trees but the judge. The pig charged, and he just stood there while everybody was yelling for him to run. He clubbed his dove gun, smacked the boar up side the head and dropped it in its tracks, then put the muzzle to the pig's head and killed it. Everybody came down out of the trees. The judge was VERY upset - because he cracked the curly walnut stock on his dove gun!

162 posted on 02/23/2003 12:45:58 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . dad says this proves the rule: "Never share a foxhole with anybody braver than you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 117 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Thanks, I'll look at the Glock 30 as well.

I appreciate all the tips, this is a big decision for me. I never fired a handgun until 3-4 months ago when I decided that I should know how at the age of 40.
163 posted on 02/23/2003 1:07:48 PM PST by RobFromGa (It's Time to Bomb Saddam!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Time to upgrade! I have been under the illusion of being adequately armed. Ignorance can be deadly.
164 posted on 02/23/2003 1:24:52 PM PST by gitmo ("The course of this conflict is not known, yet its outcome is certain." GWB)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
Increased bullet mass will increase penetration. Increased velocity will increase penetration but only until the bullet begins to deform, at which point increased velocity decreases penetration. Permanent cavity can be increased by the use of expanding bullets, and/or larger diameter bullets, which have adequate penetration. However, in no case should selection of a bullet be made where bullet expansion is necessary to achieve desired performance. Handgun bullets expand in the human target only 60-70% of the time at best. Damage to the hollow point by hitting bone, glass, or other intervening obstacles can prevent expansion.

I think that when one considers stopping power of a handgun round it is best to assume worst case scenario (your hollow point does not expand 40% of the time). I do not think that all Julian Hatcher's information is out of date. The point of this article is that bullet weights over 179 grain that are .40 caliber or larger will penetrate more tissue and cause damage thereby hopefully defeating your opponent more effectively than smaller caliber speedy rounds. Some of the information may be incorrect but there are things we can learn from Hatcher's work.

165 posted on 02/23/2003 1:30:31 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
There aren't too many .44 Specials around. I load my .44 magnum with .44 specials.
166 posted on 02/23/2003 1:32:58 PM PST by Mini-14
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother
Re: ...If it was good enough for Judge Worrill, it's good enough for me.

Couldn't agree more, Mom! An old cop friend of mine carried a .44 Special 2-inch Smith as a backup in an ankle holster (He was a large fellow and pants were full cut in those days) years ago in the Houston area. He walked into a robbery at his cleaners where the perps got the drop on him. When Jim saw the two hoods were going to snuff him and the owner, he went for broke.

He took five hits from their two pistols, two 9 mils and three .38s in his body cavity. He returned two rounds. Both were deadly accurate, one through the heart of one bad guy and the other lost the right side of his head. Jim survived and finished out his 20 to retire to fish for anything that swam and play stud poker until a heart attack took him at 70 five years ago.

Jim was a Christian gentleman, a stud player without peer and a crack shot who only pulled his piece to serve and protect his fellow citizens. I miss him every day.

167 posted on 02/23/2003 1:36:43 PM PST by sonofatpatcher2 (Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 115 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
"My first .357 was a 1972 or so S/W Model 28...huge heavy sucker. I put Pachmeyers on it when they first came and Parkerized it as well. I had finger gripped Zebra wood handles first....anybody remember those?"

The striped ones were probably Jay Scott grips, right?

168 posted on 02/23/2003 1:37:20 PM PST by Rockpile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: 69ConvertibleFirebird; 2nd_Amendment_Defender
2nd_Amendment_Defender;69ConvertibleFirebird

Glock 23 and 27 bump...

77 posted on 02/22/2003 11:48 PM MST by 69ConvertibleFirebird


Bump G23 ( 14 rounds) G27 ( 10 rounds)

I teach NRA instructors how to teach Personal Protection and Pistol.

Most important selection of a carry handgun is "Functional Reliability".

If you are looking for a cartridge after you have selected a "Functionally Reliable" handgun.

See here MagSafe or MagSafe Inc


LibertyNetwork


chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

169 posted on 02/23/2003 2:08:26 PM PST by Uri’el-2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 77 | View Replies]

To: ez; glock rocks
after reading this, I think I'll see what's out there in .40 S&W.

My Glock 23 is .40 S&W. Everyone likes shooting it. Really fits most hands well unless your hand is very large. Good control, acceptable recoil, and highly reliable. Works well for women too. The chart has it about right. It has the stopping power for most situations but isn't overpowered or oversized. A very good tradeoff in features for ordinary pistol owners.
170 posted on 02/23/2003 2:52:14 PM PST by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: spodefly
...a weeny little 9mm Beretta 92F loaded with Cor-Bon +P 115 gr. JHP's is sufficient...

Sufficient for civilian use, I think. Card-carrying Gun Nuts seem to look down on the 9mm but there's nothing wrong with them. Very practical for a lot of people. Far better than any of the smaller stuff with a hot load in them. I'd still like to get a 9mm in Ruger or Beretta.
171 posted on 02/23/2003 3:12:26 PM PST by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: Stopislamnow
love my Kahr Arms .40. P9 Covert...only problem I have with it is the normal clip leaves my pinky below the grips.

I wanted one very much. But this is what stopped me even though my hands aren't that big. Still, Kahr is well worth a look depending on your tastes and hand size.
172 posted on 02/23/2003 3:20:15 PM PST by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
I personally don't like the Para Ordnance. My brother owns a .45 Para Ordnance handgun and I'm not impressed. It jams every now and again because the magazines are not very good quality.

I found that to be true when I used after-market magazines. Never had a problem with Para mags though.

173 posted on 02/23/2003 3:25:57 PM PST by Euro-American Scum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: Atchafalaya
The point is, don't put too much faith in a handgun. Your brain is your best defense and your most lethal weapon. A big club isn't so bad either.
174 posted on 02/23/2003 5:22:28 PM PST by SBprone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | View Replies]

To: XeniaSt
From the magsafe web site that you posted the link to: "...it costs a whopping retail of $23.88 per packet of six rounds. "

Don't think I can afford $4/bullet even if they are a LOT better.

175 posted on 02/23/2003 5:25:16 PM PST by 69ConvertibleFirebird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Rockpile
If I recall the model 28 was originally made for the California Highway Patrol. Big N frame without the fancy polish of other Smiths. I thought they looked cheap back when they were made but now I think they're cool. Wish I had one!
176 posted on 02/23/2003 5:38:23 PM PST by SBprone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: Rockpile
Got me?????...30 years ago more or less
177 posted on 02/23/2003 6:01:10 PM PST by wardaddy (The calm before the storm is in the air.....does anyone else feel it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: KaiserofKrunch
The best round out of the .357 is the 125Gr JHP. I don't see it listed.

kAcknor Sez:

It's one of the best, that's for sure. I mis-typed in my post. The house gun is loaded with .38 special 110 gr SJHP over 4.4 grains of Bullseye. The recoil is far better for the wife, and both of us can get a second round off a lot faster.

The last thing I need is a round entering a neighbors house. Even the 12 gause has birdshot loaded for the first two shells. At 15 feet, the plastic wadding is going to do damage!! ;)

"bImejDI' reH betleHlIj yItlhap" (Never leave home without your bat'telh.)

Basic HTML help for new FR posters. <Ver 1.4>

178 posted on 02/23/2003 6:15:39 PM PST by kAcknor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
I use a special Proprietary load in my 9MM – it weighs 52 grains. It is a 9MM Jacketed Hollow Point (JHP) with the lead melted out. The core is then replaced with birdshot bonded in epoxy. The muzzle velocity is in excess of 2100 FPS. It is an excellent load – accurate – easy to control – and very deadly at the ranges (7 to 21 feet) that most handgun battles occur.
179 posted on 02/23/2003 6:27:36 PM PST by fiftycal (9MM On Steroids)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 69ConvertibleFirebird
From the magsafe web site that you posted the link to: "...it costs a whopping retail of $23.88 per packet of six rounds. "
Don't think I can afford $4/bullet even if they are a LOT better.

175 posted on 02/23/2003 6:25 PM MST by 69ConvertibleFirebird


I draw your attention to MagSafe for it's safety and effectiveness.

They can be purchased for less at gun shows and online at places like cheaper than dirt


chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

180 posted on 02/23/2003 7:12:26 PM PST by Uri’el-2012
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: SBprone
My 28 is hard-chromed. I need to get the thing fixed, it's got some action problems. Think I'll try new springs and if that doesn't do it--off to somebody that knows what he's doing :}
181 posted on 02/23/2003 7:46:54 PM PST by Rockpile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender; All
What is the Hatcher rating on the original 7.62 mm Mauser cartridge introduced in 1896 with the "Broomhandle??"
182 posted on 02/23/2003 7:49:10 PM PST by Lael ("C'mon, George, lets NOT get wobbly in the legs" - Margaret Thatcher to George the First!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fiftycal
Is that legal?
183 posted on 02/23/2003 7:50:39 PM PST by Voice in your head (Nuke Baghdad)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 179 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
bump
184 posted on 02/23/2003 7:59:26 PM PST by Soul Citizen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
bump
185 posted on 02/23/2003 8:03:45 PM PST by Soul Citizen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
You don't say who did the tests or how they were conducted and it obviously was not Hatcher. This stuff has been hashed over and over with different results. There are to many conditions that effect the equation rendering the whole thing as near useless. Basicly your list just lists bullets by weight and says heavy bullets are better. Which may be true but it is not the entire equation for energy transfer on impact. There isn't any mention of +p loadings.

No one should pick a gun for concealed carry based on this factor alone for those of you thinking about a new purchase.
186 posted on 02/23/2003 8:17:37 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Polycarp
I think this part of the paper about says it all!!

"The Allure of Shooting Incident Analyses"
187 posted on 02/23/2003 8:27:44 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
SureI have my second model 27 now, just a little nicer version. Fine shooting gun.
188 posted on 02/23/2003 8:29:33 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Clean_Sweep
No one should pick a gun for concealed carry based on this factor alone for those of you thinking about a new purchase.

I am going to repeat one of my previous posts.

Any functional handgun is better than no handgun at all. But I hear some people talk about how good the 9 millimeter, .380 Auto, or .38 Special rounds are. If you have the choice of a better handgun for self protection, buy it.

Also be sure to buy a quality handgun that will not jam on you in a situation where you need it.

There are many factors in purchasing a handgun. If you can effectively shoot a 9 millimeter better than a .40 S&W handgun, you are better off with the 9 millimeter. Heavier rounds are better than lighter faster rounds for self defense. But the bottomline is:

"Any functional gun will do if you will do."

189 posted on 02/23/2003 8:35:05 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: Polycarp
Hate to say it, but it sounds like the ultimate cop gun would shoot 22 calibre ammo with some sort of a nerve agent. Kind of like the tranquilizer guns used on animals.
190 posted on 02/23/2003 8:45:54 PM PST by merak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
The question was concealed carry. The answer should be qualified as to weather, body size, style of clothing and body build and activity.
A 1911 under a T-shirt may be covered. It won't be concealed. A service pistol may be a fine choice to fire. It may not be a good choice for a CCW.
Pistol ammunition has not progressed much in the last 100 years. Smokeless powder and the human body have not changed much. The 38spl, 9mm, .357 and .45 all stand the test of time. Fancy expanding bullets for pistols are as shiny fishing lures for fish. Many new pistols rounds are the result of government rules.
We need to consider possible multiple shots, inclosed confined space (muzzle blast) and muzzle flash when firing in darkness.
I'm to lazy to pick up my brass and I don't get paid enough to carry a service size pistol. A M38 S+W is fine for me.
191 posted on 02/23/2003 9:15:59 PM PST by earplug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: earplug
The question was concealed carry. The answer should be qualified as to weather, body size, style of clothing and body build and activity.
A 1911 under a T-shirt may be covered. It won't be concealed. A service pistol may be a fine choice to fire. It may not be a good choice for a CCW.

I have conceal carried a 45 for years. First a Detonics Combatmaster in the '70s. Later a Para Ordnance P-10. Now usually a Para Ordnance Double Action Ultra Cary. They are all smaller than a Walther PPK or a S&W J frame 5 shot with 2 " barrel and being flat, they are easier to conceal than the Smith.

So9

192 posted on 02/23/2003 9:53:50 PM PST by Servant of the Nine (Republicans for Sharpton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
Same here. I just discribed carrying a Ultra-Compact under a t-shirt. As long as the shirt is a heavier cloth and a darker color, there isn't a problem. I can also carry a Commander under those circumstances so it's not the grips that are difficult to hide and it certainly isn't the barrel. The only reason I can see why the amount of people shy away from that type of gun is the weight. After a solid week of carrying, the weight isn't an issue.
193 posted on 02/23/2003 10:02:15 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: RobFromGa
To all: (RogFromGA was just convienent)
Like my father taught me, "a handgun is only good for fighting your way to a rifle..." Though just the other day he was hankerin' for one of those Charter Arms .44 Special snubnose's. I'm rather interested myself.
Still, we think we prefer rifles--much better. Little bitty hole goin' in---greAT BIG hole, goin' out...
194 posted on 02/23/2003 10:49:53 PM PST by 7MMmag ("so where did you shoot him?" they asked. Answer---"right through the heart")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 100 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
I own an original Detonic. I consider it heavy, chunky and hard to carry due to its short barral and weight. The multiple sharp edges don't help. Does your body and dress match the lady in question?
I perfered a light weight Commander over it. I Have carried a Bulldog and still like my Smith. The Charter was a mid 70's gun and it sucked.
195 posted on 02/24/2003 6:11:15 AM PST by earplug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 192 | View Replies]

To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
Ailleen Wornous, the famous female serial killer from Rochester Michigan, shot, stopped, and killed, 6 out of 6 men( or 9 out of 9 men depending on who you believe) with a .22 caliber revolver.
196 posted on 02/24/2003 7:08:29 AM PST by waterstraat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
Charter Arms .44 Special "Bulldog":

Hey just like the one Spike Lee threatened to shoot Charleton Heston with!
197 posted on 02/24/2003 8:19:58 AM PST by arly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Servant of the Nine
"Federal 230gr Hydroshocks for winter"

Those are the worst clothes packers of all; slow, big, and easily flattened. Speer Gold Dots have the best reputation of not packing, and the 155gr 40 cal has been shown in a number of studies, FBI included, to do the best on winter clothes, due to its high velocity (1300fps) and smaller opening. It opens better than the Hydroshocks in gelatin and through obstacles, yet, has better penetration through hard materials that flatten the Hydroshocks.

My recommendation is any Gold Dot that is of a high velocity (1100+fps), 40 or 45 cal. For 45 that would mean a 180gr, and for 40 a 155gr. I carry the 40 in 155gr.

198 posted on 02/24/2003 8:36:49 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican (Arm Up! They Have!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: waterstraat
Aileen Wornous, the famous female serial killer from Rochester Michigan, shot, stopped, and killed, 6 out of 6 men( or 9 out of 9 men depending on who you believe) with a .22 caliber revelover.

True enough, though what lessons we should learn from her example are somewhat unclear to me, other than that even less than usually outstanding weapons may get the job done very effectively if fired with the muzzle in contact with the target, adding the force of burning powder gasses and muzzle blast to the damage caused by the bullet. I certainly prefer to avoid such close-range engagements, and also don't at all intend to emulate the late Ms. Wournous methodology for achieving such close-range encounters; neither do i plan to shoot anyone who is unarmed and not a lethal threat to me, though I'll admit it could happen. But I am happily not in the line of work that Eileen Wournous was.

Neither was her choice of a .22 anything particularly new; Smith and Wesson's original family management ceased the production of the original S&W *Ladysmith* .22 revolvers when they learned that the little handguns were being favoured by prostitutes who no doubt had learned the same trick as that employed by their notorious later sister. That name has recently been revived by the firm, hopefully intended for professional women in professions other than that sometimes said to be the oldest one.

But it is really fairly irrelevant whether those we may have to attend to in such circumstances die or not- it is the immediate cessation of their activities that is desired, especially if they're trying to harm us or another, and while their subsequent death may be a byproduct, it is not a substitute for the best possibile ability to cause their actions to cease right now. I learned that so long ago that it sometimes seems self-evident. But there are those who do not get it, or who have misplaced priorities on the matter, and it doesn't hurt to remind others, I guess.

-archy-/-

199 posted on 02/24/2003 8:42:35 AM PST by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: PatrioticAmerican
My recommendation is any Gold Dot that is of a high velocity (1100+fps), 40 or 45 cal. For 45 that would mean a 180gr, and for 40 a 155gr. I carry the 40 in 155 gr.

I hope the handgun in which you're using it has a full-length 5-inch barrel if you're hoping to get that 1100 FPS out of it. You certainly won't get that from a Colt Officers Model/Star PD length barrel from a .45/185, and I doubt that the 3½-inch barrel of a mini-Glock 27 in .40 will develop that velocity either.

200 posted on 02/24/2003 8:51:02 AM PST by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 351-396 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson