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THE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES
2/22/2003

Posted on 02/22/2003 8:34:22 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.


TOPICS: Announcements; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 45acp; 9mm; ammo; ammobang; bang; banglist; cary; firearms; guns; secondamendment; stoppingpower
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To: river rat
I call it the "Rule of Trump." My pistol trumps your karate, period. Your AR-15 trumps my pistol. My tank trumps your AR-15. Your A-10 trumps my tank, and so on up the line.
301 posted on 02/28/2003 9:11:15 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: NMC EXP
I was thinking more of belly guns and snubby 5 shots, but that would be a fine gun I guess, but I don't know much about the cost or reliablity of antique revolvers.
302 posted on 02/28/2003 9:14:01 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
The M1917 ain't a belly gun to be sure. I've been looking for one for a collector and shooter. Average condition with US Property marks is $500 around here. Many w/o US marks were sold to south american govts and are cheaper.

Quality and reliability were what you would expect for Colt and S&W in those days. Old pistol bullseye shooters have told me they were very accurate.

Regards

J.R.

303 posted on 02/28/2003 9:23:58 PM PST by NMC EXP
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To: NMC EXP
They used half moon clips, didn't they?
304 posted on 02/28/2003 9:27:47 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Yup -- half moon clips.
305 posted on 02/28/2003 9:31:48 PM PST by NMC EXP
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To: Travis McGee
Pistol, .45 Cal., Revolver, M1917

During World War I, due to a shortage of M1911 pistols, the Army procured Colt New Service and Smith & Wesson hand ejector cal. .45 six-round double-action revolvers. These pistols were standard issue until World War II, when they were only issued to Military Police and security personnel. Both pistols used the same rimless .45 cal. cartridge as the M1911/M1911A1 pistol (305,000).

306 posted on 02/28/2003 9:39:10 PM PST by NMC EXP
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
"Good .45 ACP hollowpoints cost me about $23 per 50"

Handloading Gold Dots for the .40, the price is $7/50. For teh .45, it's only a buck more.
307 posted on 02/28/2003 9:41:22 PM PST by PatrioticAmerican (Arm Up! They Have!)
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To: Travis McGee
How often do you consider the luck that it has taken to see you through until today?

There is no doubt I've been lucky. I was lucky I loaded a mag wrong that day because I had lost all track of time and place,and would have most likely been overran if I had hung around for even a few more minutes.

The bullets and frags that whizzed past you and missed by one inch?

I've got some pieces of frags laying around somewhere that didn't miss. One big piece pulled from my rucksack near the anti-tank mine (Korean War-era with TNT) I carried,and another piece from the bottom of my bootheel. The big piece came from a RPG round that took me off my feet. I don't remember how I got the one from my boot heel.

Proving once again that is it MUCH more important to be lucky than it is smart.

308 posted on 03/01/2003 12:49:12 AM PST by sneakypete (Music is magic you can hear.)
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To: Travis McGee
Hi, Travis, It's been quite awhile, have been out of circulation for some time now, just getting back.

Also have a couple speedloaders but it chills me to think I would ever need them.

Wounded a buck this fall, a running shot, hate that. Dispatched the poor thing with the CA 38, another strong reminder of limitations, but also a reminder reflexes work. Deer have very small brains, tiny target really, lots like liberals. Hope I don't have to defend myself from a liberal.

Aim small, miss small. Tiny thinking centers must be the same with all the lefties. Easier to confront a plain old misguided criminal, I guess, and anyway forget a head shot.
309 posted on 03/01/2003 4:54:08 AM PST by 8mmMauser (molon labe)
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To: sneakypete
Let me start by stating I think both the .44spl and the .45acp are excelent stopping cartridges. Further, let me state that I think reloading is an excellent hobby and something that should be encouraged.

The above said lets face it not everyone not even a majority of those who carry for self defense will be reloaders. Reloaded ammunition is great for practice but God help the person in an anti-gun state with an anti-gun prosecutor who uses hand loads in a self defense situation. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Not only did this person shoot this poor disadvantaged youth but he was not satisfied shooting him with the deadly ammunition available over the counter he had to make up his own even more harmful ammunition....."

Now, a factory hollow point has the advantage that it can be argued to the jury. "The defendant was responsible enough to pick ammunition that would not over penetrate and even went to the trouble of getting the same ammunition used by _______ police department." Is a .44 spl wad cutter a better stopper than a .45acp hollow point? I personally would be satisfied with either. It a Charter Bulldog pug a good self defense sidearm? Most certainly. Is a model 1911 .45acp a good self defense sidearm? Again most certainly. Is the ammount of practice one gets with a sidearm more important than caliber choice? IMHO again most certainly.

My usual choice of sidearm is a .45acp semi auto pistol with a ten round magazine. Is this for everyone? Certainly not.

310 posted on 03/01/2003 5:00:22 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: sneakypete
All I knew at that time was that the click I heard when I dropped the hammer on a empty chamber was the loudest noise I had ever heard in my life,...

The scariest sound in the world is click when one expects to hear bang.

311 posted on 03/01/2003 5:11:18 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Travis McGee
Possibly, in some jurisdictions. But at some point gun owners, esp veterens, will simply not comply. It will start "LA Korean style" with people guarding their kids schools open carry, and it will spread, with police told to back off, and "the 2nd amendment and my DD214 are all the papers I need

I agree eventually that will be the case but getting from here to there will involve a whole lot of pain. The initial reaction will be for the gun grabboids to demand banning everything.

312 posted on 03/01/2003 5:24:52 AM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: sneakypete
Well I think about that "luck" you had, I think about all the 19 year old Marines that I have seen leave San Diego in the last few months, and I promise that when the bullets start to fly over there any Saddamites who go out on the streets to call them baby killers are going to be met this time, and will not enjoy the meeting.

Agree with the war or not, we are going to support the troops tht go into harm's way this time, all the way home.

313 posted on 03/01/2003 8:12:43 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: 8mmMauser
Great to see you posting again! This has been the default gun thread for a week. Check out my book's website, I have 28 chapters posted there. It's called Enemies Foreign And Domestic, and it's about what happens after an "assault rifle massacre" at a stadium, when semi-auto rifles are all banned.
314 posted on 03/01/2003 8:19:42 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: harpseal
That will be an interesting interval, getting from here to there. I can imagine some civil disobedience on the lines of forcing the police to arrest a responsible veteran standing on private school property, where he has permission to stand guard with his SUR. That will be very difficult for police if other unguarded schools have been targeted by Islamofascists. Once that precedent is set open SUR carry could spread to private businesses, and so on.
315 posted on 03/01/2003 8:23:51 AM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: harpseal
However, the big problem is that a long gun is just not socially acceptable to take arround with one in public in most cities these days.

With the ubiquity of backpacks these days a handy little Kel-Tec sub 2000 might be a good investment. It can be had in .40 or 9mm. At least you would get similar ballistics to an MP5.

A death-ray it ain't, but I'd prefer it to my .45 in a terrorist as opposed to a criminal confrontation.

316 posted on 03/01/2003 10:38:52 AM PST by Woahhs
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To: Travis McGee
SUR?
317 posted on 03/01/2003 10:44:04 AM PST by Woahhs
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To: sneakypete
People who screw around with sight alignment end up getting killed.

I stated in my previous comment that if your assailant was too close, you may not have time for sight alignment with your handgun. If there is no time for sight alignment it would be stupid to try and align your sights with your firearm.

They teach the good old draw and shoot at your firing side if your opponent is too close. (I'll see if I can find a picture of the shooting position that I am describing.)

318 posted on 03/01/2003 5:55:44 PM PST by 2nd_Amendment_Defender
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To: harpseal
Reloaded ammunition is great for practice but God help the person in an anti-gun state with an anti-gun prosecutor who uses hand loads in a self defense situation. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Not only did this person shoot this poor disadvantaged youth but he was not satisfied shooting him with the deadly ammunition available over the counter he had to make up his own even more harmful ammunition....."

Harp,I know the Boob rent-a-cop has preached this nonsense until it has become accepted as a fact,but I defy anyone to find me ONE single case where this has happened. You can't,and neither can A-Boob. The fact is that if it is a "good shoot",it makes no difference if you shot him with a 105 canister round. You were justified in killing him. If it WASN'T a "good shoot",it's not going to help you if you shot him with a 25ACP.

319 posted on 03/02/2003 12:36:21 AM PST by sneakypete (Music is magic you can hear.)
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To: 2nd_Amendment_Defender
They teach the good old draw and shoot at your firing side if your opponent is too close.

I don't know who "They" are,but somebody needs to slap some sense into them. You could miss a Buick at 10 feet if you're trying to shoot that way. Form a triangle with your back being the back side,your two arms being the left and right angles,and the centered handgun being the point. If you are holding it out in front of you and facing and looking at your target with both eyes,it's damn near impossible to miss. You need your eyes open and looking at your target instead of your sights so you can see where the bullets are striking him to adjust fire,and to see how he is reacting to the bullets that are striking him. If he continues to bring his gun to bear on you,this would be a excellent time for you to step to the side as you continue to face him and fire. You won't see him doing this if you are focusing on your sights. Neither will you see any of his buddies coming to his aid from the side. Or as far as that goes,if you are being attacked by more than one person,your ability to see the first attacker you are shooting going down gives you the instant option of transfering fire to his buddies. This could be worth a couple of seconds to you. Seconds that are vital for your survival.

320 posted on 03/02/2003 1:03:37 AM PST by sneakypete (Music is magic you can hear.)
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