Author Frank Schaeffer to speak on his Orthodox faith

modbee.com ^ | February 22, 2003 @ 05:45:12 AM PST | AMY WHITE

[Destro]

Frank Schaeffer, son of the late renowned Christian theologian Francis Schaeffer, will be in Modesto next weekend to discuss the Orthodox church and faith. Schaeffer holds a photo of his son, John, a Marine.

Author Frank Schaeffer will speak at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Modesto next Saturday on the historic Orthodox tradition and his conversion to the Orthodox faith.

[Destro]

At the same time there are Protestent churches who claim uninterupted unity with the New Testament Church practices that came to be at Pentecost.

With a break in continuity of what 1,800 years or so? Very original!

[Destro]

Nope! I am saying people would have gotten what Jesus IS wrong if not for the Orthodox Fathers. That is the whole point of organized Orthodoxy - to stop strays-false messages.

[BibChr]

And there's the divide between "Orthodoxy" and Christianity. Two mutually-exclusive premises.

One one premise, you take God and His Word as your foundation and exhaustive touchstone. You apply the test of His Word to the "Orthodox" sect, and confess that it has failed miserably in many crucial and vital ways.

On another premise, the sect itself is your foundation. You judge all things by it. It tells you it's done a great job, and you have to bob your head like one of those back-window hula girls.

Christianity, "Orthodoxy." Two different species.

Dan

[Theophilus]

Apostasy has always been as near as the nearest and dearest pagan traditions and (little "o") orthodoxy and (little "c") catholicity has always been as near as the Canon. Christianity has never entered into apostasy but we have always had apostates among us. Many so-called: "Protestants" are chock full of apostasies. It is not enough to deny the authority of Rome you must also assert the authority of scripture.

[Destro]

May I ask historically what strain preserved non Apostate Christianity that appeared in Northern Europe about 200-300 years ago?

I would love--as a historian-to be able to track its progression from the Greek East up the North of Europe and then to North America.

[Theophilus]

:-) No strain, only scripture has preserved non Apostate Christianity (redundant), in all places and for all times.

[Destro]

Thank God those Orthodox fathers sat down and TOLD Christians what read (through the divine guidence of the Holy Spirit I am sure) or you wuld have been reading the apocrypha and thinking it was authentic too.

:)

[TPartyType]

I sure find it fulfilling!

[crazykatz]

You are such an egomanical person....one gets the feeling that YOU think YOU speak for Christ.

WHAT A JOKE!!

Lke I said...I wouldn't TRUST YOU to interpret toilet tissue. I have seen how hatefully YOU operate .... you are so utterly FALSE!

[BibChr]

I'm totally happy for honest readers to compare our focii:

You: personalities, Satan, personalities, personalities, personalities (based on blind mind-reading)

Me: Christ, God, God's Word, God's truth (laid out for any and all to see for himself)

Christ's invitation goes out to you, too. Pretend I'm dead; I'm of no consequence. But listen to Christ. You've nothing to lose but chains and deception, and everything to gain!

Christ says to you:

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light"
Matthew 11:28-30 (ESV)

What have you to lose but your arrogance, your fear, your hatred? What good have they done you? Where are they taking you? Hear Christ's call. Do come to Him now!

[The_Reader_David]

As I told Destro in a private message, it really is useless to argue with BibChr.

He quite firmly believes not only that his own private reading of the shortened protestant canon of Scripture is the True Faith, but that it is also the only source of truth.

It is thus quite useless to remind him that the Scriptures were fixed by councils of the Orthodox Church, that the Church existed before the New Testament was fully composed (Acts is a book of history, not prophecy, after all), or that the short canon he uses is missing books because the German reformers erroneously decided to follow the Christ-denying Jews of the Council of Jamnia.

Unfortunately, it is also equally useless to quote the Holy Scriptures to him in defense of the Faith, because it is not the Scriptures he trusts, but his own reading of them.

Thus, though we may cite Acts 15 as the model of concilar government in the Church, he will prefer private interpretation to the decisions of Church councils. Though we may cite St. Peter speaking of becoming through grace "partakers of the divine nature," and Our Lord commenting on the Psalmist's words "I have said ye are gods", he will not accept the Orthodox doctrine of salvation as theosis because it does not agree with his own interpretation of the Scriptures. Though we may cite Our Lord's words "This is my body" and "This is my blood" he will not accept the Orthodox doctrine of the reality of the Eucharist as the very body and blood of Christ because his interpretation is deaf to the plain meaning of those words and hears only "do this in rememberance of me" (and worse, does not fully understand the strength of the original word amanesis).

Don't bother arguing with him unless your really think that there are others on the thread who will be edified by your arguments.

[Theophilus]

Thank God the orthodox fathers were concentrating on the Canon and not on icons :-)

[Destro]

To: Destro

Thank God the orthodox fathers were concentrating on the Canon and not on icons :-)

The "Jesus Fish" icon the "Xi-Ro" icon and other symbolic -iconic art of the Christian faith existed centuries before the scriptures were fixed by councils of the Orthodox Church.

[kimosabe31]

The Orthodox do not believe it's right to proselytize among protestants and catholics, whom they consider to be Christians. They do, however, welcome converts from these worshippers.

[Destro]

Thanks for the book info.

[TPartyType]

Thanks for the thread. I've been thinking a lot about Bibchr's taunt regarding how much scripture he quoted and how little you quoted.

I know it's an unfair comparison, and I know it's like comparing apples and oranges, but I can't really articulate the problem with holding people to that kind of biblical example when discussing the church.

Of course we don't quote scripture when defending orthodoxy and traditional, confessional Christianity. It's not biblical apologetics. The bible was written before the church was organized, so there's not a whole lot of scripture to quote in these sorts of discussions.

Other than the 7 churches of Revelation, there's not much guidance there when it comes to ecclesiastical questions, so, naturally, we don't quote the scriptures much.

Now, if you wan't to hold a theological debate, we'll quote you some scripture! HA! and some confessions, and some scripture, and some catechitical writings, and some scripture, and some church fathers, and . . .

[Destro]

God did not make the Bible so thick and heavy so that we would use it as a pummel.

I consider Catholics and Protestants to be just as true a Christian as an Orthodox. But when it comes to claims that some Protestants practice some sort of pure or stripped down version and thus more "authentic" Christianity then they run up against the wall of orthodox (small "o") Christian historical development.

[schaeffer]

I am interested in your post since I grew up in an AB church.Is it unusual for the AB to have a charismatic congregation? How did the people come to that :was it a slow process or an "awakening" of some sort? very interesting...thanks!

[Alex Murphy]

I love Francis Schaeffer but I wish he'd homeschooled his son.

I wonder if he'd have felt the same way. IIRC, Frank(y) was awfully hard on his parents' faith when he first converted to Greek Orthodoxy. I may have been living in a hole, but this is the first time I've seen anything out of him where he even uses his father's good name as one of his credentials.

[Theophilus]

Who wouldn't resent, even if subconsiously, being sent to wilt on the dry stones of a boarding school while being deprived of the fertile and loving riches of L'ABRI? I pray, with deep humility, that God might claim what, to my weak understanding, seems to be His own. And that he might preserve my children from any similar loss.