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Pledge Ban upheld ("no under God")
Fox News.com ^ | February 28, 2002 | FOX

Posted on 02/28/2003 11:40:27 AM PST by Iron Eagle

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:35:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Iron Eagle
Bump
151 posted on 03/02/2003 5:33:12 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: wcbtinman
Have read many works by the founding fathers, and the federalist papers, I can't agree with your interpretation of "an establishment of religion".

One of Jefferson's proudest achievements was the Virginia Statute on Religious Freedom. Here's a link comparing his bill with that enacted.

Statute on Religious Freedom

To me it seems very clear that in order to protect the freedom to worship as one wishes, it's essential the government neither make laws establishing a religion, or make laws about "an establishment" of religion. In the latter, I read it as make no laws about a church or method of worship.

You'll note in the Statute on Religious Freedom the comments about forcing someone to pay for a belief he does not espouse. That clearly seems to refer to acts of government.

Is Jefferson one of the "Godless, socilalist liars" you're talking about?

152 posted on 03/03/2003 7:27:56 AM PST by jimt
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To: jwalsh07
I take it you've given up the debate.

Just a breather.

Shall religious practices be dictated by the state under majority rule?

That's the import of my question about the Satanists.

If so, why? If not, then why are we arguing?

153 posted on 03/03/2003 7:30:25 AM PST by jimt
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To: jimt
"Is Jefferson on of he "Godless, socialist liars" you're talking about?"

Jefferson is always brought up when socialists argue for the mythical "seperation" of church and state. Jefferson was one of, I believe 3, of the Founders who were considered 'Deists' or something to that effect. I'm not really sure if that is equitable to some sort of 'atheist' or not. I have read several differing explainations.

Jefferson and his 2 or so compatriots did not comprise the majority of feeling about religion among the Founders. So, I can only read the plain English of the 1st Amendment and note that the word 'the' or 'a' was not used. Instead the Founders used the word 'an'.

While I'm no great shakes at the English language myself, I asked a professor at FL State University if it meant what I thought. He agreed that using strict construct in the language, the meaning was plain and was exactly as I was protraying it to him.

BTW, he also agrees about the very plain English used in the 2nd amendment. We even found a dictionary from the late 1700's in order to verify that the meaning of 'an' , and the meaning of 'infringed' were still the same today. They are.

Was Jefferson a Godless, socialist liar? I don't think so. But, his position about the confluence of church and state was not the view of the majority during the formation of the Constitution, and the writings of the Founders clearly indicate that God, and in particular a Christian God was the basis of all of the laws written, and the basis of justice in early America.

The socialist liars among us have twisted, re-interpreted, and parsed the words in the Constituion until the document is hardly recognizable sometimes. The fact that they have gotten away with it for some 60 or so years does not change the wording, meaning, definitions, or the intent of the supreme legal document of America.

154 posted on 03/03/2003 5:57:16 PM PST by wcbtinman
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