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US BOMBERS ARE BACK (B-52s arrive in Britain!)
Sky News ^ | 3/3/03

Posted on 03/03/2003 9:09:59 AM PST by areafiftyone

American B-52 bombers have begun arriving in Britain, as Iraq claims six civilians were killed and 15 others injured in the latest round of US and British air raids inside the no-fly zone.

The last time the bombers were stationed on British soil was for the attacks on Yugoslavia four years ago.

Once again the long-range B-52s are based at RAF Fairford in Gloucestershire.

The first of the huge jets landed just before noon on Monday. About an hour earlier, what appeared to be a U-2 spy plane had taken off. Two transporters aircraft are also at the base.

British military sources say a large group of US warplanes is due in Britain this week, including 14 B-52s.

Peace campaigners witnessed the arrival of the bombers. One commented: "It gives you a feeling like a stone in your throat and an even bigger stone in your heart. This may as well be American soil here."

In the no-fly zones in Iraq, British and American pilots have been launching new raids on Iraqi defences.

Iraq claims that six civilians died and 15 were injured in one of the raids on the city of Basra located in the southern no-fly zone.

Senior Pentagon officials say the strikes have been on ground-to-ground missile systems and multiple launch rockets, which could be used against coalition troops invading Iraq.

But Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon insisted to the Commons that the RAF's planes were acting "entirely in self-defence" within international law.

US and British warplanes have patrolled the northern and southern zones since the end of the 1991 Gulf War. They were set up to protect Kurds and Shia Muslims from persecution.

Officially, the pilots' missions are defensive, attacking surface-to-air missile sites and aircraft in response to Iraqi hostilities.

Experts say an increase in the raids last year heralded America's determination to blitz Saddam's air defences in preparation for war.

Ministry of Defence and US Central Command officials insisted that the additional raids were in response to increased Iraqi aggression against their aircraft.

But analysts pointed to an apparent intention to destroy Iraq's air defences piece by piece, including anything which could be used against an invasion force.


TOPICS: Breaking News; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: b52bombers; gloucestershire; raffairford
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1 posted on 03/03/2003 9:09:59 AM PST by areafiftyone
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To: areafiftyone
The pieces continue to fall into place. We have to go through with removing Saddam now. If we don't, it will make us look weak and we'll have another 9/11 within weeks.
2 posted on 03/03/2003 9:11:36 AM PST by Sparta (ANSWER, the new Communist conspiracy for the twenty-first century)
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To: areafiftyone
Those planes are my grandfather's age correct?
3 posted on 03/03/2003 9:12:02 AM PST by KantianBurke (The Federal govt should be protecting us from terrorists, not handing out goodies)
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To: KantianBurke
That depends. How old is your grandfather?
4 posted on 03/03/2003 9:13:53 AM PST by RoughDobermann
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To: KantianBurke
Is your grandfather about 50 years old? If so, then yes. And I saw something the other day that they expect to retire them sometime around the year 2090.

They are great aircraft, tough-as-nails, and seem to take upgrades in stride. One of those wonderful moments in engineering that don't come along that often.
5 posted on 03/03/2003 9:17:14 AM PST by Frank_Discussion
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To: KantianBurke
Those planes are my grandfather's age correct?

Unless you are a very precocious one or two year old, unlikely. The last H model BUFF, the only ones still flying, came off the line in October of '62.

6 posted on 03/03/2003 9:17:29 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
actually, maybe it was his grandfather who was "precocious"......LOL
7 posted on 03/03/2003 9:19:35 AM PST by ken5050
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Thanks for the elucidation!
8 posted on 03/03/2003 9:20:00 AM PST by Frank_Discussion
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To: Frank_Discussion
Like the DC-3, some of which--I think--are still flying. But, then some things if properly maintained go on forever. "The Constitution," is still seaworthy.
9 posted on 03/03/2003 9:24:23 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
Both Constitutions (the ship and the document) are in this condition!
10 posted on 03/03/2003 9:26:37 AM PST by Frank_Discussion
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To: Frank_Discussion
>>They are great aircraft, tough-as-nails, and seem to take upgrades in stride. One of those wonderful moments in engineering that don't come along that often.<<

They are a product and symbol of a better America.

The ultimate B-17, in a way.

It's hard to see one in flight and not draw a tear.
11 posted on 03/03/2003 9:26:37 AM PST by RobRoy
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To: RobRoy
Aww, c'mon now, the sun hasn't set on this country yet. 'Tis merely cloudy skies!
12 posted on 03/03/2003 9:29:25 AM PST by Frank_Discussion
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To: KantianBurke
These are B-52 H's which are the only ones left in the inventory, the G's are at Davis-Monthan and the previous models have been destroyed except for those on static display around the Country.

They are definitely not your grandfather's age although the original design goes back to the 50's. The B-52H's are continually undergoing upgrade and will be around for a lot more years.

13 posted on 03/03/2003 9:29:25 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Bush/Cheney 2004)
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To: KantianBurke
These are B-52 H's which are the only ones left in the inventory, the G's are at Davis-Monthan and the previous models have been destroyed except for those on static display around the Country.

They are definitely not your grandfather's age although the original design goes back to the 50's. The B-52H's are continually undergoing upgrade and will be around for a lot more years.

14 posted on 03/03/2003 9:29:25 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Bush/Cheney 2004)
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To: Frank_Discussion
They are great aircraft, tough-as-nails, and seem to take upgrades in stride. One of those wonderful moments in engineering that don't come along that often.

I had the oppertunity to be vectored to check out a '52 outbound from Hanoi.
Seems he had taken a unexploded SAM through the wing between the #3 and #4 engine.
I gave hin a look over, the fuel had stopped leaking out of the hole and there was some wires and stuff hanging out. I reported the damage to him, and after a few moments ,which I'm sure was a consultation with his engineer and crew, he elected to continue on to a tanker and then on to Guam.
I understand he made it back OK

15 posted on 03/03/2003 9:35:09 AM PST by Robe
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To: areafiftyone
Peace campaigners witnessed the arrival of the bombers. One commented: "It gives you a feeling like a stone in your throat and an even bigger stone in your heart. This may as well be American soil here."

What ungrateful dirtbags. Had it not been for America, it would have been German soil.

16 posted on 03/03/2003 9:38:23 AM PST by SamAdams76 (California wine tastes better - boycott French wine!)
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To: Robe
SAM through the wing between the #3 and #4 engine.

That was one skinny SAM! I suspect you meant to write "between the starboard inboard and outboard engine pods which contain engines 5,6 & 7,8."

17 posted on 03/03/2003 9:45:37 AM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: struwwelpeter
You are most correct sir....
I gets confused over anything over two engines, they were enough for me to keep up with. (Old F-4j jock)
18 posted on 03/03/2003 9:48:19 AM PST by Robe
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To: areafiftyone
Move 'em on, head 'em up
Head 'em up, move 'em on
Move 'em on, head 'em up
Rawhide!
Count 'em out, ride 'em in,
Ride 'em in, count 'em out,
Count 'em out, ride 'em in
Rawhide!


19 posted on 03/03/2003 9:53:23 AM PST by GalaxieFiveHundred
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To: KantianBurke
The B-52 G and H models have to be between 35 and 40 years old--definitely older than most of the pilots who fly them.

I'm amazed these things are still around. Hubby flew G models from 1979-1982, and they were considered old then.

20 posted on 03/03/2003 9:55:47 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: areafiftyone
"American B-52 bombers have begun arriving in Britain, as Iraq claims six civilians were killed and 15 others injured in the latest round of US and British air raids inside the no-fly zone."

Yeah, they were baby milk factories disguised as missile batteries and military communications centers. Saddam is rerunning propaganda....the clock has almost run out.

21 posted on 03/03/2003 10:01:03 AM PST by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = VERY expensive, very SCRATCHY toilet paper.)
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To: RobbyS
"The Constitution," is still seaworthy.

Is ammo for the ship's cannon still being manufactured? The Constitution could be sent to find and destroy the 3 missing Alqaida ships.

22 posted on 03/03/2003 10:02:09 AM PST by RightWhale (Theorems link concepts: Proofs establish links)
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To: Robe

I suspect that only BUFF crews can keep 'em straight.

23 posted on 03/03/2003 10:02:23 AM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: SamAdams76
"It gives you a feeling like a stone in your throat and an even bigger stone in your heart.

To complement the rocks in their head.

24 posted on 03/03/2003 10:04:23 AM PST by Madame Dufarge
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To: areafiftyone
I know I don't really have a need to know, but I can't help wondering why the B-52's would be based in England. They could make it to Iraq from there, but they'd have to have overflight clearance from uncooperative countries (i.e. Germany and France). Any other route would be a zigzag.

Maybe they are there for other purposes.
25 posted on 03/03/2003 10:08:36 AM PST by Cap Huff
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To: KantianBurke
Actually, the oldest combat B-52 dates from 1959. That was the beginning of the production run of the "H-model", the only model of the B-52 still in service. . .
26 posted on 03/03/2003 10:09:11 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: RooRoobird14
Nothing too amazing about it. The Buff was DESIGNED for modular upgrade and replacement of subsystems from day one.

And I know of at least one family that has had 4 generations fly the B-52, in its' various models. . .when **I** flew 'em (1984-1989) we had several 3-generation B-52 families. . .
27 posted on 03/03/2003 10:11:54 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: Cap Huff
Maybe they are there for other purposes.

At the rate things are going, bombing runs on Paris and Berlin may soon be in order. . .

28 posted on 03/03/2003 10:14:11 AM PST by Stefan Stackhouse
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A low-flying Buff can be a scary sight: the wingspan is longer than the fuselage, and the wings are mounted so that that the Buff looks like a giant scary buzzard hovering in the sky (the wings are so long they even flap sometimes--LOL!)

With the black smoke billowing out of the back and the horrendous noise, Buffs are an awesome, ugly thing to behold.

29 posted on 03/03/2003 10:14:29 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: Cap Huff
Logistics. B-52s have been operating out of RAF Fairford for DECADES: we deployed there with my old squadron (the long-since-deactivated 69 BMS) back in the 1980s. The runway is long enough and has sufficient weight capability for heavy B-52 ops. "Heavies" (i.e. B-52/ C-5/ C-17/ KC-10) need far more robust runways than do fighters or other smaller aircraft. It's a simple matter of civil engineering.

Also, it's VISIBLE. There's the psychological effect of American B-52s deploying forward. Even if the REAL raids come out of places like Diego Garcia, with no media presence, no civilian protesters, etc. . .

That's the unclassified, common-sense answers, anyway. . .
30 posted on 03/03/2003 10:17:15 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: Cap Huff
They fly the Med, I'd bet. The biggest problem is ordnace logistics - they take quite a load. Alot of that is prepositioned in the UK. SOme will no doubt be stationed in Diego Garcia. Note that the DoD has been pretty cagey about announcing heavy bomber assignments. We really do not know what's up.
31 posted on 03/03/2003 10:21:42 AM PST by CasearianDaoist
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To: Salgak
When hubby flew at Loring AFB 20+ years ago, it seemed like he had some kind of in-flight emergency every other time he flew. The practice missions were long then (12-14 hours), but were made even longer when there was a mechanical/electrical problem during flight and the crew had to spend extra hours filling out the post-flight paperwork.

Well, as long as the Buffs hang in there, that's fine with me. They're a 10 on the "Scare the cr@p out of the enemy" richter scale.

32 posted on 03/03/2003 10:23:06 AM PST by RooRoobird14
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To: Salgak
"Logistics."

That makes sense to me. It is simply intriguing to think about whom we are trying to influence psychologically.
33 posted on 03/03/2003 10:31:18 AM PST by Cap Huff
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To: Robe
I went through a B 52 in 1957 at Roswell, NM. It is an awsome weapon. . It was siting beside a B 36 of which I was a pilot. The B 36 was much larger but obviously constructed differently.
The B 52 still is the best weapon in the Air Force with cruise missles and will be for many years.
34 posted on 03/03/2003 10:32:06 AM PST by southland
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To: RooRoobird14
I used to do field work in NW Wyoming near where SAC had a practice range. Low-flying B52s could be seen frequently. One time one snuck up behind me. Upon turning around to look at it come right at me, looking low enough to touch, it's bomb bay doors opened. I just froze. There wasn't enough time to put my head between my knees and kiss my sweet butt goodbye. It truly was an awesome sight. I remember thinking how glad I was that they and their crew were on my side.
35 posted on 03/03/2003 10:47:58 AM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington
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To: Sparta
We have to go through with removing Saddam now. If we don't, it will make us look weak and we'll have another 9/11 within weeks.

Bombing Iraq with B-52's will motivate and unite all the radicals throughout the Arab world, thus keeping 9/11 activity going for the rest of this century. Saddam can be removed without bombing Iraq. If someone killed members of your family, would you ignore that and just do nothing? Looking and acting too strong is what brings on suicide attacks.

36 posted on 03/03/2003 10:48:35 AM PST by Semper
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To: Cap Huff
Doesn't it, though ?? Probably has something to do with a persistent Frog problem (g)
37 posted on 03/03/2003 10:49:32 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: RobbyS
Definitely still flying. There are at least two here in Tucson being used for regular commercial cargo duty.

Particularly good weekend here - saw a DC-3 in flight and also a P-51, a P-47 and a Sabrejet (the fighters were part of an Air Force demonstration team doing a practive session here).

38 posted on 03/03/2003 10:51:09 AM PST by AzSteven
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To: areafiftyone
A comment on the strategic value of B-52 bombing. Kenneth Pollack in The Threatening Storm reports that the pin-point bombing done by B-1s etc did not have a whole lot of effect on Iraq's (or Serbia's) commitment to fight. But it was the B-52s, with their heavy bombs, that destroyed the will to fight. Their arrival into Theatre is a good sign.
39 posted on 03/03/2003 10:57:03 AM PST by Remole
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To: Robe
Seems he had taken a unexploded SAM through the wing between the #3 and #4 engine.

He got hit right in the engine pod? Or do you mean between pods #3 and #4? :) Still, that must have been quite a site. What other aircraft can shut down 3 or 4 engines and still make it back to base. (Still it would be better if those old TF-33s were replaced by something more modern, with 1 new one replacing 2 old ones, the engines used by 747s would do fine.)

40 posted on 03/03/2003 10:57:23 AM PST by El Gato
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To: Salgak
Logistics. B-52s have been operating out of RAF Fairford for DECADES: ....

And they get their Ammo for those birds from RAF Welford right down the street. Where millions upon millions of Net Explosive Wieght comprising of MK 80 series GP bombs are located, until many were retrograded back to the U.S. in the early ninties.
Now, theres probably just millions pounds of explosives.

41 posted on 03/03/2003 11:00:09 AM PST by demlosers
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To: Remole
A comment on the strategic value of B-52 bombing. Kenneth Pollack in The Threatening Storm reports that the pin-point bombing done by B-1s etc did not have a whole lot of effect on Iraq's (or Serbia's) commitment to fight. But it was the B-52s, with their heavy bombs, that destroyed the will to fight.

B-1s carry about the same load of about the same types of bombs as the BUFFs. Depending on external carriage that is, configured for max carriage the old BUFF can still carry more iron than the Bone.

42 posted on 03/03/2003 11:02:57 AM PST by El Gato
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To: RobbyS
"The Constitution," is still seaworthy.

It is getting a big hole in its hull with this unconstitutional waging of war by the President. The constitution clearly states that THE CONGRESS declares war. The congress can not legally "resolve" to give the President that responsibility. Check the line item veto attempt a few years ago: Congress passed a law which gave the President a line item veto power which the Supreme Court overturned saying that Congress can not abdicate its constitutional power and responsibility to the President.

Saddam must be delt with but not in a way that ignores our constitution. If the President does not follow the law of the land why should the rest of the country? But then again, if the military followed George's example, they would just not show up for required duty if that was inconvenient (See George's reserve record). This country is greatly in need of LEADERSHIP and George is not providing it here. Just being firm is not enough; you must be firm in right action. Ignoring the Constitution is not right action.

43 posted on 03/03/2003 11:03:40 AM PST by Semper
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To: PhiKapMom
wait till they put the dilithium crystals and warp drive into them...
44 posted on 03/03/2003 11:07:23 AM PST by chilepepper
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To: Semper
Uh, we bombed Iraq with B-52's in 1991, didn't seem to make much of a difference. . .
45 posted on 03/03/2003 11:09:52 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: Semper
Ah, but we're NOT declaring war, we're merely waging one. The Constitution was pretty much shot as an issue after Korea, the 'Nan, Panama, Haiti, Desert Storm I, Afghanistan. . .
46 posted on 03/03/2003 11:12:23 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: Semper
"Bombing Iraq with B-52's will motivate and unite all the radicals throughout the Arab world, thus keeping 9/11 activity going for the rest of this century."

LOL....uh....PLEASE tell me you forgot to close your sarcasm tag.

47 posted on 03/03/2003 11:23:53 AM PST by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions = VERY expensive, very SCRATCHY toilet paper.)
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To: Salgak
Uh, we bombed Iraq with B-52's in 1991, didn't seem to make much of a difference. .

The situation was quite different in 1991. Iraq had invaded another country which then asked for help. An international coalition led by the U.S. waged a war to push Iraq back within its borders. The congress passed (by 1 vote) what was essentially a declaration of war (in concert with the U.N.). The President was experienced in war and did not even "appear" to have a questionable agenda.

There are some who say that the bombing of the bunker full of women and children (by mistake) was the real motivation for the long term effort to finally bring down the World Trade Center Towers (an earlier attempt failed but they did not give up). If we bomb Iraq again, do you really believe that terrorism will stop? Would you give up if someone bombed and killed your people? Bombing is a short term fix and not really a solution at all. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely - we are as close to absolute power as any country has been in history. We better be really careful because we are going down a path that can lead to destruction. The only solution is real leadership and we do not have that now.

48 posted on 03/03/2003 11:26:32 AM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
Blame Mr. Lincoln. He waged war for months in his own country with express warrant, even blockaded, his own ports. which was nonsense in terms of international law. Or blame FDR, or Truman, or Eisenhower, or...You get the picture. Besides, if Congress declares war, the it loses whatever control it has anyway. The emaer gency powers of the President have created a constitutional dicatorship. So declaration of war? Another scrape of paper.
49 posted on 03/03/2003 11:35:18 AM PST by RobbyS
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To: cake_crumb
LOL....uh....PLEASE tell me you forgot to close your sarcasm tag.

Please tell me you will open your reasoning tag. Would you give up if someone bombed and killed your people? Why should they? As long as we act like we don't need to respect international laws or even our own constitution, why would anyone respect us? Because we can bomb them back to yesterday? They are already there and they have nothing to lose - we do. For me, it is enough to realize that waging war (especially when it is not a last resort) is not compatible with the actions and teachings of Jesus Christ.

50 posted on 03/03/2003 11:36:17 AM PST by Semper
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