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The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban - A Public Opinion Nightmare
The Federal Observer ^ | 3 March 2003 | Ryan VanOrden

Posted on 03/03/2003 12:34:36 PM PST by 45Auto

On September 13th 1994, HR4296, the so-called Assault Weapon's Ban, was signed into law. Under the guise of reducing crime, it outlawed future manufacture and importation of several specific firearms, and arbitrarily limited choice features of all future firearms eligible for sale in the United States. Proponents of the bill touted military look-alike rifles as "dangerous weapons of mass destruction" in an effort to win public support for an outright ban on such "evil" features as bayonet lugs, folding stocks, and curved magazines.

While they may have succeeded in convincing a narrow majority of legislators to vote in favor of the ban, they did not succeed in convincing the American public, especially not those who even pretended to know anything about firearms. The resulting public outcry among the gun-owning community of the United States galvanized the gun lobby, and has contributed to the outcomes of every subsequent election. Ironically, this law may prove to be the beginning of a marked trend that unifies gun owners as a more homogenous voting block than ever before.

In a somewhat twisted display of constitutional irony, the Assault Weapons Ban contains a ten-year sunset clause. Unless renewed by a subsequent act of Congress, the law will simply disappear on September 14th of 2004. Weapons and accessories that have been illegal for the last ten years will once again appear new on shelves around the country.

In this essay we will examine the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, its effects on public opinion and the following elections, and demonstrate that a renewal of the ban in September of 2004 would be political suicide for many candidates hoping for reelection in November.

Anatomy of a Ban In order to fully understand the effects of the Assault Weapon's Ban and how they relate to public opinion, we must first examine the law itself and its implications. According to information garnered from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence(tm), "the federal assault weapons ban, was passed as part of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. President Clinton signed it into law on September 13, 1994." [1] It is also known as " The 1994 Public Safety and recreational Firearms Use Protection Act" (though it has little or nothing to do with protecting any firearms use) or simply as "The Crime Bill". [2]

The law specifically names 19 different firearms as patently illegal, and specifies that three or more of the following features present on a single firearm constitutes an assault weapon.

A folding or telescoping stock

A pistol grip

A bayonet mount

A flash suppressor, or threads to attach one (a flash suppressor reduces the amount of flash that the rifle shot makes. It is the small birdcage-like item on the muzzle of the rifle)

Muzzle capable of acting as a grenade launcher.

Magazine capacity over 10 rounds

Weapons manufactured, imported, or configured in such a manner prior to the passage of the 1994 Act were "grandfathered" as having a "pre-ban" status. This had a two-pronged effect on the gun market. One was a steady and almost immediate inflation in prices of pre-ban weapons and high capacity magazines, their now limited availability causing an artificial stratification in price structure. Second, was the introduction of various "post-ban" weapons designed to circumvent the particulars of the law, while providing a similar function or appearance to their pre-ban counterparts, albeit minus the full cosmetic effect or hefty price tag. The price of these pre-ban weapons skyrocketed in the months prior to the ban and has been rising slowly but steadily over the last ten years. Manufacturers, fearing the worst, stepped up production of these banned items in order to insure that profitable amounts were on hand once the Bill was inevitably passed. For example, the cost of the AR-15 series of rifles has more than doubled since the Ban first was introduced into Congress in April of 1994. [3]

Post-ban look-alike rifles, though lacking some or all of the banned features, are often functionally identical to their pre-ban predecessors, and fill a market vacuum created by the passage of an ineffective, bean-counting law that a only a tax-collector could be proud of. Indeed the term "assault weapons" is a misnomer. Gun Digest defines true assault weapons as "...fully automatic, selective-fire, or equipped with mission-specific features designed only for military and law enforcement application." [4] (Emphasis added.)

Regardless of one's position on gun control, it is evident that the so-called Assault Weapon's Ban did nothing to curb violent crime. Indeed, in many ways it was a solution to a non-existent problem. The ban did not help to eliminate crime, it did not get weapons currently on the open market out of the hands of any criminals, nor did it even target the types of firearms most commonly favored by miscreants and lowlifes. In a study done by the Florida Assault Weapons Commission, it was found that between 1986 and 1989 assault weapons were used in only 17 or .23% of the 7,500 gun crimes committed. [5]

Public Support Initially, the idea of a law to ban assault weapons seemed to enjoy widespread support among both the American people and members of Congress; but later, after the ban was already passed, the American people began to wake-up to the fact that the promises of safer streets had been empty and impotent. "In January 1995, ABC News/Washington Post interviewers found that 77 percent wanted Congress to keep in place "a law making it illegal to sell assault weapons." In April and in June, roughly identical numbers in the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll said Congress should keep the ban. Only two in ten disagreed.

A Yankelovich Partners poll in April 1995 approached the issue differently. Yankelovich asked whether it should be illegal for people to own handguns or, separately, to own semiautomatic assault guns. Forty percent favored making it illegal to own handguns; 55 percent did not. Forty-eight percent supported making it illegal for citizens to own semi-automatic assault guns; 50 percent dissented.

The public is dubious about the effects of a ban on assault weapons. In the Yankelovich poll, 46 percent said making the sale or possession of semiautomatic weapons illegal would reduce the amount of violent crime; 51 percent said it would not." [6]

Since that time, the trend of public apathy or outright hostility towards the effectiveness of the Assault Weapons ban has been slowly and quietly continuing to grow. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 had the unforeseen consequence of re-exposing millions of Americans to the longstanding ideals of self-protection in the face of danger. Gun permit applications in Oakland County Michigan skyrocketed from an average of 2,200 per year to over 8,000 following the September 11th terrorism attacks on the world trade center. [7] The tides of gun ownership appear to be shifting.

Effective Lobbying Efforts and the NRA It is patently obvious that, like most gun control legislation, the Assault Weapons ban of 1994 was not popular among many members of the National Rifle Association. With the first news of the impending bill, groups like the NRA and the more grassroots GOA (Gun Owners of America) launched a lobbying move to block it. Members were encouraged to contact their representatives and let them know that voting against this bill was important to their reelection.

The result was the bill passing by the narrowest of margins, with a vote coun t of 216 for the bill, 214 against and with 3 abstaining; it was numbered as one of the narrowest victories in legislative history. [8] Gun owners, divided by political infighting between weekend hunters (who see no need for assault weapons) and strict constitutionalists (who obviously do) were unable to effectively rally together for a common cause.

Those gun owners who felt disenfranchised by the ban took up the torch once more to stir up public support against the legislators who favored the ban. By painstakingly comparing the lists provided by the Office of the Clerk to the U.S. House of Representatives concerning who voted for and against the 1994 ban and the lists of winners in the 1994 and 1996 elections, we can get a minimal idea of those who were defeated as a direct result or at least partly because of the ban. Among those who sought reelection, 33 were summarily defeated in 1994 and six more in 1996. [9]

In 1996, due to successful lobbying by gun owners nationwide, the house voted 239 to 173 to repeal the Assault Weapons Ban as ineffective. [10] The bill was then allowed to die in the Democrat controlled Senate and the Assault Weapons Ban stood. While there is no accurate way to measure the effects of gun control legislation in each individual race, and this evidence can be considered consequential at best, it should be noted that many members of the Democratic Party consider gun control to be an issue to be avoided as harmful to their campaigns. Clinton-Gore strategist James Carville said, "I don't think there is a Second Amendment right to own a gun. But I think it's a loser political issue." [11]

By the 2000 elections, the NRA had rallied a greater measure of support and unity throughout the gun owning community. The monthly magazines distributed to all dues-paying NRA members contained report cards for individual candidates in races nationwide, ranking them solely on their stances on gun control. This had a unifying effect on gun owners and allowed them to see the candidates voting records in black and white and as they compared to others.

Indeed it was claimed by former President Bill Clinton that the lobbying efforts of the NRA and other pro-gun groups that were directly responsible for the Democratic loss of the House of Representatives in the 2000 election and partially responsible for Al Gore's loss of the Presidency to George W. Bush. In an interview with CBS News on December 18th 2001, "You've got to give it to them, they've done a good job.

They've probably had more to do than anyone else in the fact that we didn't win the house this time. And they hurt Al Gore." [12]

USA Today quipped, "Guns played a key role in Gore's loss of Arkansas, Tennessee, and West Virginia, any one of which could have delivered him the presidency." [13]

In the recent 2002 elections, of the 246 candidates endorsed by the NRA for the House of Representatives, 232 seats were won. This clearly demonstrates the effectiveness of the NRA's Get out the Vote programs and gun lobby report cards.

The Future of the Assault Weapons Ban Guns are and will continue to be a major issue in American politics. The passage of the nefarious Assault Weapons Ban and its inability to effectively fight real crime gave rise to an increasingly unified movement of gun owners who simply won't stand for any more useless legislation that only serves to limit the rights of honest law abiding citizens.

The 1994 ban, as written, includes a sunset period of ten years from its passage into law. Unless renewed by an act of Congress and again signed into law by President George W. Bush, firearms that have been demonized as illegal "weapons of mass destruction" will once again suddenly be legal to manufacture and import. Artificially inflated values of so-called pre-ban weapons will drop dramatically, as brand-new weapons roll off the factory milling machines and the cosmetically castrated weapons of the ten-year prohibitionary period will be legally modified by their owners to include all of those features once declared "too evil" to be on a modern civilian's rifle.

Make no mistake, anti-gun activists and legislators will make every attempt to reinstate an even more restrictive and permanent ban, but given the current political climate and Congressional representation, coupled with the growing tendency of gun owners to vote as a group, you will most likely see a massive successful campaign by grassroots activists to soundly defeat the ban once and for all.

In a survey of gun owners conducted by the Author on the internet-based web forum www.thefiringline.com, 78.95% of 114 responding gun owners claimed that the 1994 ban had influenced their voting practices and would continue to influence them in the 2004 election.

Did the '94 Assault Weapons ban affect your vote? Will it affect your vote in 2004?

Yes it did affect my vote and WILL affect my vote in '04 90 78.75%

Yes it did affect my vote but WILL NOT in '04 1 0.88%

No it did not affect my vote but it WILL in '04 3 2.63%

No it did not affect my vote and it WILL NOT in '04 3 2.63%

I was ineligible to vote in '94 but it WILL affect my vote in '04 17 14.91%

I was ineligible to vote in '94 and it WILL NOT affect my vote in '04 0 0%

Approx 6.5% Margin for error Total: 114 votes 100%

Additionally, 14.91% of those responding were ineligible to vote in the 1994 election, but stated that an act of Congress in regards to the Assault Weapons Ban would affect their votes in the 2004 election. These are individuals who were presumably too young to vote, and interestingly enough also too young to own a gun when the Assault Weapons Ban was passed, and have had to live under its restrictions the entire time they have owned a firearm.

ConclusionGun ownership is becoming increasingly salient in the minds of American voters. The failure of the Assault Weapons Ban to deter violent crime and the resulting lack of public support will be its death knell in 2004. In order for the gun owners to insure its quiet sunset into oblivion they will need to band together once more and ensure that each representative knows that a renewal of the ban will result in their electoral defeat in November of that year.

1. "The Assault Weapons Ban," Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, Aug. 2002 http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunlaws/awb.asp

2. Adams, Les; The Second Amendment Prime/r, Birmingham: Palladium Press, 1996: 142

3. Roth, JA, Koper, CS, "Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96," National Institute of Justice Research in Brief, (U.S. Department of Justice, March 1999).

4. Lewis, Jack and David E. Steele, Assault Weapons, Wisconsin: Krause, 2000: back cover.

5. Mack, Richard I.; From My Cold Dead Fingers: Why America Needs Guns, Utah: MC Printing, 2000: 82

6. Bowman, Karlyn H.; Assault Weapons Ban: The Voters Want It, or Maybe They Don't, Roll Call Apr. 1, 1996.

7. Gray, Kathleen: "Attacks add to demand for metro gun permits", The Detroit Free Press Oct. 16 2001.

8. Office of The Clerk, US House of Representatives Final Vote Results for Roll Call 156 5/5/1994: http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=1994&rollnumber=156

9. Research by Author, comparing lists located at the Office of the Clerk Website (links follow) '94 Ban: http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=1994&rollnumber=156

94 Election Results: http://clerkweb.house.gov/elections/1994/94Stat.htm

'96 Election Results: http://clerkweb.house.gov/elections/1996/96Stat.htm

10. Office of The Clerk, US House of Representatives Final Vote Results for Roll Call 92 3/22/96: http://clerkweb.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=1996&rollnumber=92

11. Cox, Chris; "Don't Be fooled, the Fight Continues", America's First Freedom Oct. 2002: pg 23

12. "Freedom's Faithful Retake the Field", America's First Freedom Aug 2001: pg 35

13. "Freedom's Faithful Retake the Field", America's First Freedom Aug 2001: pg 34


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: banglist; hr4296; rkba; weaponsban
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"Regardless of one's position on gun control, it is evident that the so-called Assault Weapon's Ban did nothing to curb violent crime. Indeed, in many ways it was a solution to a non-existent problem. The ban did not help to eliminate crime, it did not get weapons currently on the open market out of the hands of any criminals, nor did it even target the types of firearms most commonly favored by miscreants and lowlifes. In a study done by the Florida Assault Weapons Commission, it was found that between 1986 and 1989 assault weapons were used in only 17 or .23% of the 7,500 gun crimes committed. [5]"
1 posted on 03/03/2003 12:34:36 PM PST by 45Auto
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To: 45Auto
--unfortunately, the ignorance and apathy of most gunowners is equal to that of the average voter (or non-voter).

This issue will be decided largely by the misinformation campaign sure to be launched by the gun control groups, aided and abetted by the print and electronic media--

2 posted on 03/03/2003 12:40:44 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: 45Auto
If this bill is renewed, I am *done* with the Republican party.
3 posted on 03/03/2003 12:41:12 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear.)
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To: 45Auto
Agreed. This is on par with the "COP KILLER BULLETS", although no cop has EVER been killed with one. They just hung that moniker on them to elicit public concern.

That being the case...why didn't they go for broke and call them Minority Baby Killer Bullets?

4 posted on 03/03/2003 12:41:33 PM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I will defend to your death my right to say it.)
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To: AdamSelene235; 45Auto
If this bill is renewed, I am *done* with the Republican party.

Same here.

However, I will be calling and writing to my senators and congressman. The senators are lost causes (Lautenberg and Corzine). My RINO congressman needs to be tarred, feathered, and whipped in voting decently.

5 posted on 03/03/2003 12:44:34 PM PST by jjm2111 (Ooh, those bad black rifles.)
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To: 45Auto
resulting public outcry among the gun-owning community of the United States galvanized the gun lobby, and has contributed to the outcomes of every subsequent election. Ironically, this law may prove to be the beginning of a marked trend that unifies gun owners as a more homogenous voting block than ever before.

Imagine what would happen if we could ever get thePro-Christ, pro-gun, and pro-Life communities to vote as a block.

6 posted on 03/03/2003 12:45:46 PM PST by 2timothy3.16
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To: AdamSelene235
I am already DONE with the Republicrat/Demican party. Here is an alternative..

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

The US Constitution party fully supports individual rights to keep and bear arms

"Gun Control

The right to bear arms is inherent in the right of self defense, defense of the family, and defense against tyranny, conferred on the individual and the community by our Creator to safeguard life, liberty, and property, as well as to help preserve the independence of the nation.

The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the Constitution; it may not properly be infringed upon or denied.

The Constitution Party upholds the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. We oppose attempts to prohibit ownership of guns by law-abiding citizens, and stand against all laws which would require the registration of guns or ammunition.

We emphasize that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. In such circumstances, the peaceful citizen’s protection against the criminal would be seriously jeopardized"
7 posted on 03/03/2003 12:47:39 PM PST by HadEnough
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To: *bang_list

8 posted on 03/03/2003 12:47:42 PM PST by conservativefromGa (www.awbansunset.com)
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To: AdamSelene235
Ditto.

I've gotten to the point that when/if I find a person favors gun control, I cut them off. No politeness, no business, no nothing. Last year I tossed a friend of my daughter out of the house after he made a foolish statement about "gun nuts" at dinner. He's not allowed back, ever.

There is simply no excuse to be made, they are either evil or criminally stupid. Neither is allowed in my home.
9 posted on 03/03/2003 12:48:46 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: 2timothy3.16
All you need is the Pro-Christ group to block vote.

But..why don't they? Many people at my church say that politics and the Bible don't mix, especially when
their Machinist Union job depends on supporting a Demican
baby killer candidate.

Is there something about "thou shalt not murder" innocent
pre-born children that they don't understand??

10 posted on 03/03/2003 12:52:30 PM PST by HadEnough
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To: AdamSelene235
Ditto!

And so are about half a dozen of my family and friends, we agreed on this a few months ago.

TMMT
11 posted on 03/03/2003 12:52:57 PM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
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To: 45Auto
This law is sooo typical of so many laws. They don't work. They take away Freedoms, they cost money, and they simply don't pass the logic test. They are feel good laws that Liberals love but are as worthless as the dems who wuppot them.
12 posted on 03/03/2003 12:53:49 PM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
"Last year I tossed a friend of my daughter out of the house after he made a foolish statement about "gun nuts" at dinner. He's not allowed back, ever. "

THAT must have been amusing. What if the chap comes around on the gun issue? Most young people are so propagandized they don't know what to think. I bought my first gun a couple of years ago at the ripe old age of twenty-six. Before that, I didn't know diddly about gun control. Now, I'm a pro-self-defense stalwart. And I'm from NJ.
13 posted on 03/03/2003 12:57:11 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: jjm2111
Find out what the scorecare is with your congressman here.

http://www.awbansunset.com/scoreboard.html

and in particular for you: http://www.awbansunset.com/house_nj.html
14 posted on 03/03/2003 1:00:24 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: 45Auto
Bump
15 posted on 03/03/2003 1:02:14 PM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: 45Auto
Gun permit applications in Oakland County Michigan skyrocketed from an average of 2,200 per year to over 8,000 following the September 11th terrorism attacks on the world trade center.

And that's in an anti-gun county.

16 posted on 03/03/2003 1:09:01 PM PST by Dan from Michigan (Every man dies. Not every man really lives.)
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To: 45Auto
bump
17 posted on 03/03/2003 1:14:33 PM PST by kimosabe31
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To: AdamSelene235
If this bill is renewed, I am *done* with the Republican party.

No offense intended, but I'll believe that when I see an elephant fly.

After this law is renewed by a republican-controlled congress and senate then signed into law by a republican president, you'll wipe the dirt off your face kicked there by the republican congressman, senators and president in September 2004 when they renew this law, then you'll go into the voting booth and elect them right back into office in November.

I mean who else are you going to vote for?

The Libertarians? The doper party? Ya, right!

The Constitution Party? HoHoHo... That's a good one.

Be honest. If you couldn't vote for a republican, who would you vote for?

A DemocRAT?

Sorry to be so harsh, but if there's one thing I learned from reading the musings of all the republicans who frequent this board, there's one common trait that you all share --politics trumps principles.

Even Bob Barr has gone back to feed at the public trough.

18 posted on 03/03/2003 1:23:39 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
Here are some real 'gun nuts' for you:


19 posted on 03/03/2003 1:26:21 PM PST by flashbunny
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
--it has to do with something called "winning"-- there is no politician so powerless as one out of office nor any group so powerless than one with no representation in the legislative body--
20 posted on 03/03/2003 1:32:06 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: Puppage
Agreed. This is on par with the "COP KILLER BULLETS", although no cop has EVER been killed with one. They just hung that moniker on them to elicit public concern.

Actually, the issue itself DID affect the number of police officers killed. Before the issue of "cop killer bullets" came up, with (I believe) NBC shouting it from the rooftops, the criminal element generally knew nothing about protective vests. Police agencies begged the network from doing their segments, which could have put the lives of police officers in danger. Since the network had a political agenda, and wanted ratings, they ran with the story, and as a result, criminals found out that many police officers wore protective vests, and the number of officers who were shot in the head went up. I believe that if you look into the dates, there is evidence that thanks to the anti-gunners, spouting off about "cop killer bullets," more cops were killed.

Mark

21 posted on 03/03/2003 1:38:24 PM PST by MarkL
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To: rellimpank
--it has to do with something called "winning"-- there is no politician so powerless as one out of office nor any group so powerless than one with no representation in the legislative body--

Like I wrote; politics trumps principles.

Remember this as you re-elect the powerful who work to disarm you.

22 posted on 03/03/2003 1:40:02 PM PST by Ol' Dan Tucker
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To: 45Auto
The bill was then allowed to die in the Democrat controlled Senate and the Assault Weapons Ban stood.

This is inaccurate. In 1996, the Senate was controlled by Republicans.

23 posted on 03/03/2003 1:43:02 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: HadEnough
But..why don't they? Many people at my church say that politics and the Bible don't mix, especially when their Machinist Union job depends on supporting a Demican baby killer candidate.

Wow. That is a chilling indictment. I find more Christians are picking up on the idea that their witness should extend to politics. But you will always have people who are hypocritical enough to "oppose political action by Christians" because to do so would force them to face their voting habits.

24 posted on 03/03/2003 1:50:36 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
No matter what else Bush may accomplish, should he sign a revival or extension of the assault weapons ban, I will donate ten thousand dollars to Hillary!

I would rather have the whole country burn now, than be choked to death ever so slowly. My children, my brothers' children, my friend's children are of an age to fight. So am I, so are my brothers, my cousins, so are most of my friends.

There's no better time than the present to settle this and all the other issues, in a permanent way.

If the pubs won't stand firm for the Constitution, then bring on Hillary! and bring on the civil war.
25 posted on 03/03/2003 1:52:18 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (What? Do you people think you will live forever?)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
No offense intended, but I'll believe that when I see an elephant fly.

Crap like this is why I oppose democracy. Pick up Bastiat's The Law sometime.

26 posted on 03/03/2003 1:52:19 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (Like all the jolly good fellows, I drink my whiskey clear.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Thank you very much for this heads up. I'll check it from home.
27 posted on 03/03/2003 2:08:57 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Guess what, if this law is renewed by a Republican controlled congresss, and signed into Law by a Republican controlled President, I'll vote for the Libertarians.
28 posted on 03/03/2003 2:11:40 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
No matter what else Bush may accomplish, should he sign a revival or extension of the assault weapons ban, I will donate ten thousand dollars to Hillary!

Can you send me a copy of the cleared check? Also, don't do that, buy gold.
29 posted on 03/03/2003 2:14:34 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: HadEnough
I am already DONE with the Republicrat/Demican party. Here is an alternative..

http://www.constitutionparty.com/

The US Constitution party fully supports individual rights to keep and bear arms

They are a real powerhouse at getting legislation through congress. Nobody will cross them!< /sarcasm>

30 posted on 03/03/2003 2:22:35 PM PST by Nov3
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To: Zack Nguyen
"This is inaccurate. In 1996, the Senate was controlled by Republicans."

Not exactly. Republicans won the 1996 elections in November (except that they lost the Presidency again), but those Senators didn't get sworn in until January of 1997.

31 posted on 03/03/2003 2:24:11 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: 45Auto

I don't see the Assault Weapons law being renewed.

Republicans have already passed two pro-gun "arming pilots" bills into national law in the last year, so the trend is a long way from being pro-gun control.

Plus, it's too easy to stop anything from happening in the Senate by "filibustering".

So getting a House that just voted in two pro-gun laws, and then getting a Senate that did likewise to vote contrary to those two laws for a new gun control bill seems rather unlikely, and then having GWB sign it into law seems even unlikelier still.

32 posted on 03/03/2003 2:27:46 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: jjm2111
I will scan it in and post it here.

As for metals, I have some gold, but I believe more in copper, brass and lead.
33 posted on 03/03/2003 2:31:47 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: 45Auto
Fortunately, this will come up for renewal, if at all, just before the 2004 elections. No Republican can win if he goes against the NRA that close to an election.

So9

34 posted on 03/03/2003 2:33:01 PM PST by Servant of the Nine (Real Texicans; we're grizzled, we're grumpy and we're armed)
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To: rellimpank; Ol' Dan Tucker
It would seem, by current events and those past, that most conservatives have no representation in the Republican Party. I reject the argument that voting for my preferred candidate is a vote for the other side, thus I tend to vote libertarian. (If I had any evidence that the Republicans would reverse the 90+ year slide, I might be a supporter)
35 posted on 03/03/2003 2:51:07 PM PST by IMHO
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com; Travis McGee
If the pubs won't stand firm for the Constitution, then bring on Hillary! and bring on the civil war.

I hate to say it, but I agree with you. Of course, I'd much prefer to win at the ballot box, to make the Democrapic Party a thing of historical ridicule, than to have to resort to the cartridge box.

I hope that the gun-grabbers understand the rage out there. Our sheep-like Canadian neighbors are just plain not registering guns (or are gumming up the system by registering glue guns, etc.), and this has the libs up there totally shocked - what will Americans do? Americans that are veterans in large numbers, Americans who have far more guns per capita (at least in the South and West), and Americans whose very freedom was born from the spilling of the blood of the soldiers of the "legitimately constituted authority" of the day. I'd not want to be on the opposite side of the 1 in 10,000 who take up arms - that would amount to some 8,000 riflemen (and -women), who would be a whole lot better motivated, trained and equipped than the "sniper" sickos that held the entire DC area hostage for several weeks. And if it is more than 1 in 10,000, then watch out!

As for metals, I have some gold, but I believe more in copper, brass and lead.

Having the latter will get you lots of the former, should push come to shove.

36 posted on 03/03/2003 2:57:31 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Southack
Well, the Senate was taken by Republicans in 1994. Their control was consistent from 1994 to 2001. I believe I am accurate in this.
37 posted on 03/03/2003 3:23:16 PM PST by Zack Nguyen
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To: Ancesthntr; Eaker; harpseal; Squantos; Mulder
Are the anti-freedom gun grabboids really stupid enough to push our nation into this future?


38 posted on 03/03/2003 3:54:00 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Are the anti-freedom gun grabboids really stupid enough to push our nation into this future?

Matt, the "grabboids" don't think that we have the stones to actually fight back.....ever.

They indeed think that we will go quietly into the night.


Stay safe; stay armed.


39 posted on 03/03/2003 4:49:23 PM PST by Eaker (64,999,987 firearm owners killed no one yesterday. Somehow, it didn't make the news.)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Politics is a dirty little business practiced by dirty little people in dirty places, like the US Senate. RKBA advocates and those who want to live in relative liberty must put as much pressure as possible on representatives of the Republican Party and on any 'moderate' (if there are any) or pro-2nd demonRATs to allow this egregious piece of trash-law to sunset. We should use every means at our disposal to persuade President Bush to change his mind and urge Congressional leaders to whip the bastards into shape on this issue. The only thing legislators understand is money and power; and they need the former in order to get and maintain the latter. If they think they can get the money/power and still stab the Constitution in the back, they will do it. Its up to us to convince them otherwise. A lot of re-thinking is going to happen should this unconstitutional law be renewed; should the worst happen, that will be the time to consider other options.
40 posted on 03/03/2003 5:08:06 PM PST by 45Auto (Registration eventually leads to confiscation)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
As for metals, I have some gold, but I believe more in copper, brass and lead

LOL!
41 posted on 03/03/2003 5:27:37 PM PST by jjm2111
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To: Zack Nguyen
Now that you mention it, yes, you are correct.
42 posted on 03/03/2003 5:36:43 PM PST by Southack (Media bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Servant of the Nine
No Republican can win if he goes against the NRA that close to an election.

It will be a voice vote on a bill voted on after midnight on a Friday as a rider attached to a bill increasing military pay or some other conservative "must pass" legislation. No individual vote will be on the record. You won't know who voted for and who voted against.

43 posted on 03/03/2003 5:39:47 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty" not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Travis McGee
Are the anti-freedom gun grabboids really stupid enough to push our nation into this future?

Yes. All it takes is one more Columbine or Port Arthur, and more anti-gun legislation will be pushed through.

44 posted on 03/03/2003 5:40:47 PM PST by Mulder
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To: Travis McGee
The gun grabboids will risk anything for power. They think they will win because they have the media.
45 posted on 03/03/2003 7:28:25 PM PST by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: jjm2111; the gillman@blacklagoon.com; All; .45MAN; dansangel
I have a goal to teach a kid gun safety and to shoot each year. I got a friend of my son's last year (with his father's permission, of course). I challenge everyone here to do the same.
46 posted on 03/03/2003 7:41:30 PM PST by FreedomPoster (This Space Intentionally Blank)
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To: flashbunny
Here's one of my favorite gun nuts.

47 posted on 03/03/2003 7:44:38 PM PST by FreedomPoster (This Space Intentionally Blank)
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To: Travis McGee
Hey! I have that hat! I was wearing it today.
48 posted on 03/03/2003 7:48:16 PM PST by FreedomPoster (This Space Intentionally Blank)
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To: 2timothy3.16
Why, all we would do is Take Our Country Back!

And restore the Constitution to its rightful place!

And replace the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax!

And abolish the IRS!

And repeal the 16th Amendment!

But wait, There is More!
49 posted on 03/03/2003 8:10:53 PM PST by Taxman
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To: Eaker
They indeed think that we will go quietly into the night.

Then they are fatally stupid.

50 posted on 03/03/2003 11:58:55 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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