2 lawmakers spurn Muslim's prayer - Republicans step off House floor

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | March 4, 2003 | ANGELA GALLOWAY

[sarcasm]

OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.

But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.

"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.

"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."

A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.

The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.

Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.

In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."

Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.

"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"

McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.

Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."

"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.

Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.

"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

[Illbay]

I have ceased addressing all the Qu'ranic "scholars" we have here on FR, since I've found in every instance that the "translation" they depend upon is fallacious.

So let's not worry about what our own prejudices are--you have a right to yours--and concentrate on what is proper and right.

The fact is, these are elected officials. THey have a responsibility to act accordingly in their office. This was simply WRONG.

Many's the time I have attended events like Rotary, where a prayer is uttered the form and content of which is contrary to my own religious faith. I simply bow my head and show respect that this person is praying to God in the way that he considers proper.

My personal beliefs don't have to enter into it.

[E Rocc]

Oh, and by the way, islam has been declared to be NOT under the purview of the First Ammendment of the Constitution by a Supremem Court ruling since 1892.

You've got to be kidding me. It's bad enough that people take dicta from the Holy Trinity case out of context and say that the Supreme Court declared America to be a "Christian Nation". Even David Barton has renounced that claim.

Now you're saying that it meant the First Amendment didn't apply to non-Christian faiths? Are you including Judaism too?

-Eric

[Dataman]

and they don't include pandering to your own bigotry.

Neither does it include the unecessary compromise of integrity. You are imposing your personal morality on them. By what right?

[Kevin Curry]

The same "Allah" whose faithful followers certainly will not permit missionaries of your faith to proselyte among the Muslims? The same "Allah" that commands all Muslim coverts to the Christian religion to be killed?

Jesus Christ said something about a "house divided against itself" not standing. You don't see a problem here? Why does Allah and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob work at cross purposes?

[Kevin Curry]

My personal beliefs don't have to enter into it.

I've followed your posts at FR for as long as you've been here. Your personal beliefs always enter into it.

You are just being a rigid hypocrite on this issue.

[steve-b]

Using her logic, The Church of Satan should be allowed as well to come into The House and offer prayers to the Devil

Then again, an expression of allegiance to Satan would be more consistent with the typical behavior of legislators.

[YOMO]

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."......................

How about praying for and instructing all RADICAL MUSLIMS to
Disavow Terrorism and to turn in those who won't?

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians ....................

Let me think that one over. One bad Christian in OK blew up a building, was tried, convicted, and EXECUTED.

"As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.....

But kill all infidels.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."...........

So he wants a Congressional Medal for those who brought terror to our shores?

[ppaul]

Using her logic, The Church of Satan should be allowed as well to come into The House and offer prayers to the Devil as well and perhaps after that, the Church of Homer Simpson.

And there will be some, even on this thread, like Illbay, who think that would be perfectly okay.

[Eaker]

Once again you are a hypocrite.

Why was the walkout not free speech? Further, the 1st Amendment is a guarantee of free speech not a guarantee of a bully pulpit with a captive audience.

As an American you ALWAYS have the right to walk out.

Eaker

[Illbay]

You can retain your integrity without showing blatant disrespect. These people are NOT private citizens when they stand in the legislative chamber.

What they did was wrong, and it was embarrassing to Republicans everywhere.

[E Rocc]

The same "Allah" that in the Q'aran commands the slaughter of Jews? The same "Allah" that inspired Muhammad to kill all the Jews of Medina?

I suppose Leviticus doesn't call out the death penalty for some pretty mild stuff. I suppose the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the Thirty Years War weren't inspired by faith.

-Eric

[Illbay]

I made that point in the email. In most Muslim countries we have NO tolerance for other religious faiths.

WE ARE BETTER THAN THEY ARE. Or at least, we ought to be.

[Illbay]

My personal beliefs enter into it on FR. But if I were an elected official, I have no right to show disrespect to another religious faith in my elected capacity. I am a representative of those who elected me. No doubt there are Muslims among them.

Like I said, these people could have gone afterward and washed their mouths out with Scope. But standing in that chamber, they were obligated to show respect, representing the principles of the Constitution.

[Giddyupgo]

I agree with you.

We are not fighting terrorism but a religion that will not stop until they will rule the world.

They are over six million in the USA. The World is blind to the Islam's clear teaching that all Muslims are commanded to kill the Infidels (Unbelievers) that do not submit to Islam.

All Countries that are ruled by Islam now were taken over by murdering their citizens.
Islam has spawned mass murder over the world in order to their Country. Allah commanded them to do it in the Koran.

Saudi Arabia has spent Many Billions of dollars in building Mosques
many in America and Europe. With the Imams trained at Al Akzar in Cairo, Egypt. Where all are trained to do anything and everything in anyway to take over the whole World.

All of the so called (Terrorists) have been spawned by Islam. Much of the News media in the USA and our President say Islam is a good and peaceful religion. You be the judge. Here are a few passages from the Koran

Sura… 5:51 O you who believe do not take the Jews and Christians for friends… Allah does not guide the unjust people…

Sura 9:5…Then slay the idolaters (That's all who do not believe in the Koran) wherever you find them and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush……

Sura …2:191 Kill them wherever you find them.

Sura 8:37 Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme…

Sura 4:74 When you meet the unbelievers on the battlefield strike of their heads……

All Countries that are now ruled by Islam were taken over by murdering their citizens.
Islam has spawned mass murder over the world

[ppaul]

[I]slam has been declared to be NOT under the purview of the First Ammendment of the Constitution by a Supreme Court ruling since 1892.

It's not fair to dangle that kind of bait.
Please supply a reference.

[Illbay]

How about praying for and instructing all RADICAL MUSLIMS to Disavow Terrorism and to turn in those who won't?

Sounds like quite a few of them are, in Guantanamo and "undisclosed locations outside the U.S."

[wgeorge2001]

"The First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods." That's a COMMAND, not a suggestion, from the Triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. No Christian should have stayed in his seat during the prayer to a false god."


Well said. All bible believing Christians know that we are saved by grace through faith in the blood atonement of God the Son at the cross of Jesus of Nazareth some 2000 years ago. Doctrinal Christians must come to God the Father through Jesus Christ ONLY BECAUSE HE ONLY PAID FOR MANKIND'S SINS and our sins are clensed by believing how that he died for our sins and rose the third day for our salvation; all mankind's sins were laid on the only innocent sinless man in history. Christians worship Jesus as the Christ of God and know that any other prayer to God other than through Christ is impotent and heresy.
These congress people did very well to leave. We tolerate other peoples views in our free society; neverthess we worship at the cross of Jesus Christ ONLY and not at any other.

[Illbay]

I don't think that would be okay. It would not be appropriate to ask the Church of Satan to offer a prayer, nor would it be appropriate to have a Santeria priest make an animal sacrifice. Yes, there are limits, but those limits have been addressed ad nauseum in our jurisprudence.

A Muslim cleric is a far cry from a Satanist, no matter what some of you may think. I have ZERO consideration for Islam as a religion. But I have great consideration for the U.S. Constitution. Too bad these elected officials didn't.

[GirlShortstop]

If a Rabbi had opened it in the name of Eloi would you have walked out?

I wouldn't have walked out... my Savior used that word himself.   How many times did He use Allah when calling on His Father?

[DCPatriot]

"As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance."

Are you kidding?