Mall Guard Loses Job Over T-shirt Flap

Times Union ^ | March 8, 2003 | Bruce Scruton

[NYer]

The Blame Game

[NYer]

Bumping ......

[AStack75]

Scapegoat

[friendly]

The firing is an atrocity for a good man:

(from the Wall Street Journal) Although the mall may have the legal right to eject someone for wearing an offensive shirt, the action as described by Reuters certainly sounds like overkill. But Reuters leaves out a crucial part of the allegation, which appears on the arrest report, obtained by The Smoking Gun: The security guards had received complaints that Downs and his "partner" (actually his son, according to the Times-Union) "were stopping other shoppers." The security guard's deposition says that a customer had complained "that the two gentlemen [sic] were having a verbal dispute with another group of individuals in the mall. The customer was afraid of what may come out of the dispute, so she wanted to let someone know." Sounds more like disturbing the peace than protecting it.

There's another odd angle to this story: The New York Law Journal reports that Downs is the chief lawyer for the state's Commission on Judicial Conduct. "Last month, U.S. District Judge David N. Hurd in Utica, N.Y., shot down as unconstitutionally vague provisions in the Code of Judicial Conduct that restrain the political speech of judges and judicial candidates." Downs's office had prosecuted a judge for taking part in political activities. The law journal notes that "there are no allegations that Downs violated any ethics code -- he is not a judge, and therefore not subject to the Code of Judicial Conduct."

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

The mall management had to do something to appease the protesters so they'll stay away. 100 people who don't bathe gathering in an enclosed space would ruin any business.

[Pharmboy]

I know Crossgates well--used to live up there. This whole thing was bogus. Those misdirected and misinformed people should be allowed to wear their antiwar T-sirts and be left alone. This is the US of A.

[grania]

The mall management had to do something to appease the protesters so they'll stay away. 100 people who don't bathe gathering in an enclosed space would ruin any business.

Are you serious? This mall "management" is so bad it would be laughable, except that they are allowed to affect people's lives. I hope the security guard has a lawsuit here. And how is this going to appease protestors?

What I want to know is does this nazi corporation own or operate any other malls? I'd like to not go to them, until the managers read the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Bill of Rights.

[NYer]

The security guard's deposition says that a customer had complained "that the two gentlemen [sic] were having a verbal dispute with another group of individuals in the mall. The customer was afraid of what may come out of the dispute, so she wanted to let someone know." Sounds more like disturbing the peace than protecting it.

And here is that deposition ....

[white trash redneck]

I read this post just after reading College to apologize to Bush for Professor, which describes how a college professor gave students extra credit for writing antiwar letters to Bush. She gets a hand slap, but the poor schmoe from the mall gets fired. Go figure.

[Pontiac]

"I guess that when it comes down to it," he added, "It's the people who sign the paperwork who get the blame, not the people who told you to do it."

The first rule of “Cover Your A$$ Management Philosophy” is don’t sign anything you don’t have to.

[friendly]

I read this post just after reading College to apologize to Bush for Professor, which describes how a college professor gave students extra credit for writing antiwar letters to Bush. She gets a hand slap, but the poor schmoe from the mall gets fired. Go figure.

A Google search found the same "instructor," a Rosalyn Kahn, teaching a course in Marxist Studies in Contemporary Rhetoric at California State University, Northridge.

[UCFRoadWarrior]

I hope the S/O sues the company that fired him. Even if he wasnt taking orders from up above, this situation (from what you fellow Freepers have shared...something the liberal media left out....these two pro-Saddam supporters were harrassing others) was handled properly by the S/O

Not sure of the location this happened (which state or municipality).....but even in a right-to-work state or an "At will" state.....the S/O has a very legit case

Unfortunately, the bigotry of Political Correctness has reared its ugly head again....and it cost the job of an apparently good employee

[libertylover]

Those misdirected and misinformed people should be allowed to wear their antiwar T-sirts and be left alone. This is the US of A.

I certainly agree with you here, as I think most FReepers do. But I'm trying to figure out if there's more to the story. I wonder if the two were walking around the mall picking verbal fights with shoppers, in which case it would have been appropriate to ask them to leave.

[jacquej]

Generally, I would agree with you, but something about this incident bothers me, and it has something to do with the "crowded theatre" exception to the first amendment.

I have a nagging feeling that political divisions in this country are becoming greater, the personal conduct of individual is degrading, and the possibility of "war" breaking out between citizens who do not share the same views is increasing.

You know, there was a time when it was considered rude and boorish to discuss religion, sex, or politics in polite company. I think most malls would prefer shoppers to consider themselves in polite company, and shop.

I am sure others will disagree, which makes for interesting debate on this forum.

[OldFriend]

You are right, there is a LOT more to this story than was first reported.

Further, this man was engaging other shoppers in a disruptive way and people began to complain.

The outrage is that the mall guard lost his job. VERY UNAMERICAN!

Time to FREEP that mall until they rehire the guard, and apologyze.

[Keeper of the Turf]

Crossgates mall is owned by the Pyramid Companies. They own a number of large malls. The two that I know of are Carousel Center in Syracuse and Ingleside Mall in Holyoke, Mass.

[thepitts]

He can have what's left when the first lawyer gets thru with them.

[thepitts]

Crossgates mall is owned by the Pyramid Companies.

Not for long.

[SirFishalot]

I'd like to see this guy hire the lawyer, that was arrested, to go after the mall for unjustified termination, LOL.

[AppyPappy]

Rolling over is going to cost the mall a bundle. The lawyer smells blood and he won't be put off. Then the T-shirt will ramp up with more controversial sayings and the lawyer will be there to collect the loot.