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I just got called for Jury duty for the first time (want info on Jury Nullification) - VANITY

Posted on 03/12/2003 7:27:40 AM PST by The FRugitive

I just got called for jury duty for the first time.

I'm curious about jury nullification in case I get picked and get a consensual "criminal" case (tax evasion, drug posession, gun law violation, etc.). What would I need to know?

This could be my chance to stick it to the man. ;)

(Of course if I were to get a case of force or fraud I would follow the standing law.)


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: jurormisconduct; jurytampering
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1 posted on 03/12/2003 7:27:40 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: The FRugitive
It means that a juror, or jury, can't be forced to vote guilty regardless of the evidence.
See OJ simpson case.
2 posted on 03/12/2003 7:30:13 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: The FRugitive
I once got bumped from the jury pool by telling them that my Dad was VP of the world's biggest winery. Since it was a DUI case, I was gone in a blink.

LOL!
3 posted on 03/12/2003 7:30:43 AM PST by EggsAckley ( Hannibal Lechter: "I love the French. They taste like chicken.")
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To: The FRugitive
Your job is not to interpret the law. It's to decide guilt or innocence of the charge.
4 posted on 03/12/2003 7:30:48 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: AppyPappy
Yea, but I don't beleive someone can be "guilty" of excercising his natural rights - to self defense, to the keeping the fruits of his labors, etc.
5 posted on 03/12/2003 7:32:24 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: The FRugitive
I just got out of Jury Duty and it was a civil case. IMHO don't try to skip Jury Duty or get out of it. The person was asking for a lot of money and we gave the person a small amount.
6 posted on 03/12/2003 7:33:15 AM PST by KevinDavis (Ad Astra!)
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To: The FRugitive
Instead of wasting the court's time (and my tax dollars), when you're asked by the judge if you have any reason for not serving on the jury, just tell them you're a strong believer in jury nullification. That should get you home in time for lunch.
7 posted on 03/12/2003 7:33:28 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: The FRugitive
Tell that the the founding fathers....

Jurors should acquit, even against the judge's instruction...
if exercising their judgement with discretion and honesty
they have a clear conviction the charge of the court is wrong.
-- Alexander Hamilton, 1804

It is not only the juror's right, but his duty to find the verdict
according to his own best understanding, judgement and conscience,
though in direct opposition to the instruction of the court.
--John Adams, 1771

I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet imagined by man
by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution.
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1789
8 posted on 03/12/2003 7:33:42 AM PST by toothless (I AM A MAN)
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To: The FRugitive
It will be difficult for you to get through voir dire but if you do, you can vote not guilty no matter what. Unlike what AppyPappy says, you have the authority and indeed duty to judge the law as well as the facts of the case, and even if this conflicts with the judge's instructions. See www.fija.org
9 posted on 03/12/2003 7:33:59 AM PST by coloradan
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To: The FRugitive
Your duty is to decide on the facts and the law.
10 posted on 03/12/2003 7:34:11 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: toothless
That was directed at AppyPappy. Sorry.
11 posted on 03/12/2003 7:34:28 AM PST by toothless (I AM A MAN)
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To: KevinDavis
No, I won't try to get out of it. It's my duty as a free citizen.

Although maybye my views might keep me off an actul jury during questioning.
12 posted on 03/12/2003 7:35:34 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: AppyPappy
What if the law itself is unjust? For example, look at the fugitive slave laws and (until the recent SC ruling) RICO prosecutions of pro-life protesters.
13 posted on 03/12/2003 7:35:46 AM PST by KarlInOhio (France: The whore for Babylon)
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To: KevinDavis
I just got out of Jury Duty and it was a civil case. IMHO don't try to skip Jury Duty or get out of it.

I am envious! - The only time I was ever called over the period of a week, they seated the jury each morning before my name was called, so I got sent home! - I really thought it would be neat to do.

14 posted on 03/12/2003 7:36:48 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: The FRugitive
It must be a serious case because nobody is charged with crimes unless they are more serious than perjury! After all 'everybody does it' (quoting influential US senators).
15 posted on 03/12/2003 7:37:17 AM PST by Voltage
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To: The FRugitive
but I don't beleive someone can be "guilty" of excercising his natural rights

Ahh...so if someone shoots you because they feel it was their natural right because you were white, you wouldn't have a problem with that? Or if someone robs you because "that's just what I do" and they feel it is their right to earn a living vua income redistribution, that wouldn't bother you. That's jury nullification. That's why it is wrong.

They will ask you questions about your feelings related to the case. Tell the truth and it will work out.

16 posted on 03/12/2003 7:37:33 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: KarlInOhio
Then you say "I feel this law is unjust" and they will let you off the jury.
17 posted on 03/12/2003 7:38:05 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: Catspaw
While I certainly wouldn't lie if asked directly, I'm not going to volunteer that I approve of jury nullification.
18 posted on 03/12/2003 7:38:16 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: The FRugitive
Jury right and Jury Nullification

Jury Nullification

Jury Nullification…Guide Picks

Rebels in the Jury Box


19 posted on 03/12/2003 7:38:43 AM PST by Stand Watch Listen
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To: The FRugitive
DRUG WAR RESISTANCE TIP #1 - Jury Nullification.

Oh yeah, Tip 2, -- It's spring - PLANT YOUR SEEDS
20 posted on 03/12/2003 7:39:41 AM PST by Lexington Green
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To: The FRugitive
I predict that you will spend the whole week sitting in the jury room rather than serving on a jury. You will be questioned very closely about your opinions during the jury selection process. The lawyers are expert at weeding out jurors who have any sort of opinion that might affect your ability to judge a case without prejudice.

I got dismissed from a jury selection after being asked very pointed questions about the fact that I was a white male from the suburbs and therefore might not be able to fairly judge a black woman's workman's comp case, in which I honestly answered that if selected, I would make a conscious effort to be fair.

21 posted on 03/12/2003 7:39:49 AM PST by Kenton
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To: The FRugitive
If you have ever complained or been upset by a stupid jury verdict, this is you chance to help solve the problem. Don't try to get out of it. Serve!
22 posted on 03/12/2003 7:40:19 AM PST by MissBaby
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To: The FRugitive
Jury duty sucks. I was called TWICE last year alone. I'm hoping that since I moved, I won't be called again.
23 posted on 03/12/2003 7:40:40 AM PST by FourtySeven
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To: The FRugitive
LOL... I don't know why everyone seems to think you want to get out of jury duty, when you indicated just the opposite.
24 posted on 03/12/2003 7:41:24 AM PST by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, Zoolander)
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To: The FRugitive
If you're mind is already made up re: voting to acquit no matter what, you're not an impartial juror and should be excluded. Furthermore, it would be unethical to lie about your beliefs just to get past the voire dire.

Were I a party to a case, I would not want you on my jury.

BTW, in all likelihood, your case would more than likely be a lot more mundane than the examples you gave and the nullification issue probably wouldn't be a factor anyway.
25 posted on 03/12/2003 7:43:09 AM PST by kms61
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To: AppyPappy
Ahh...so if someone shoots you because they feel it was their natural right because you were white, you wouldn't have a problem with that? Or if someone robs you because "that's just what I do" and they feel it is their right to earn a living vua income redistribution, that wouldn't bother you. That's jury nullification. That's why it is wrong.

That's not a natural right. A natural right is anything you wish to do that doesn't violate another's equal rights.

They will ask you questions about your feelings related to the case. Tell the truth and it will work out.

Absolutely, of course, I will be honest to any direct questions I'm asked.

26 posted on 03/12/2003 7:43:13 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: The FRugitive
All you have to do is vote to acquit. You do not have to explain or justify your vote to anyone. However, be prepared to be verbally abused by your fellow jurors.

regards - red

27 posted on 03/12/2003 7:43:40 AM PST by rednek
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To: The FRugitive
You're a weasel.

Frankly I think you could use a civics lesson, but I doubt you'd get anything from it.

I do hope that one day you find yourself in a court of law with your world in the balance and have plenty of time to consider the ramifications of facing 12 people with an attitude like yours

You're presupposing that 'sending' a message is somehow more noble than giving aggrieved parties justice, and you're deciding in advance which types of cases are not meritorious and which are worthy of your 'blessing'.

You may well get out of jury duty-- which would be a good thing for this country. Whatever years of education you bothered with were wasted.

And yes, I've served on juries.
28 posted on 03/12/2003 7:43:41 AM PST by IncPen
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To: The FRugitive
Jury Nullification is serious business, its not meant as "sticking it to the man"... A juror/jury always has the right to NOT convict, regardless of the letter of the law, if they believe the person should not be prosecuted.

The types of things you are mentioning are hardly things that I would consider for Jury Nullification. We may not like taxes but they are part of life....

Personally Jury Nullification I view should be used in cases where a parent kills the person who sexually assaulted their child. They committed murder without question, but no way I would convict a parent for doing what any parent would do.

Finally Jury Nullification is not likely unless you have a highly morally contentious prosecution. The entire Jury must vote not guilty (generally) if only 1 or 2 people vote not guilty, you end up with a hung jury and a new trial is scheduled. This is sort of the check and balance of the Jury Nullification... for it to happen the prosecution must be so morally repugnant that 12 citizens ALL decide, while the defendant may be completely guilty under the letter of the law, they will not convict them.

So, the notion that one lone person is going to "stick it to the man" is pretty much fantasy.
29 posted on 03/12/2003 7:43:59 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: The FRugitive
So you're not going to honest with the court--you're going to pretend that you're serious about your jury duty, but your real agenda is jury nullification. Isn't that about right?
30 posted on 03/12/2003 7:44:31 AM PST by Catspaw
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To: The FRugitive
Check out the website for the Fully Informed Jury Association.
31 posted on 03/12/2003 7:45:22 AM PST by Don'tMessWithTexas
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To: AppyPappy
Your job is not to interpret the law. It's to decide guilt or innocence of the charge.

At least that's what they tell you and want you to believe.

32 posted on 03/12/2003 7:45:52 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: The FRugitive
That's not a natural right

Once again, that is completely subjective.

A natural right is anything you wish to do that doesn't violate another's equal rights.

Like driving drunk? Or speeding? Or passing a stopped school bus? If you don't hurt anyone, should it be legal?

33 posted on 03/12/2003 7:46:37 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: Sloth
Heh, no, I don't wish to get out of it. It's my duty to serve.

I'm currently self-employed and I can do my work in the evenings, so now is a good time in fact.
34 posted on 03/12/2003 7:47:27 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: The FRugitive
If you want out, when they start asking you question, make sure they know you really, really want to serve...and then ask (with a straight face), if you'll have the opportunity to pass a death sentence in this case (even if its a tax case)...pretty sure you can get off...lol.
35 posted on 03/12/2003 7:47:37 AM PST by freeper12
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To: The FRugitive
I just got off jury duty yesterday. Failed to get seated (voir dire?) due to a series of questions the defense attorney asked me. It was a criminal case, and the defendent was charged with 1st degree burglary, assault with a deadly weapon, and sexual battery. The victim was a 64 year old female.

IMHO, if you can speak in complete sentences, wear shirts with buttons, and have any knowledge whatsoever of the US Constitution, you will never sit on a jury!

36 posted on 03/12/2003 7:47:52 AM PST by Don Carlos (Year of the sheep. Baaaaa! Payback time is nigh. Sheep have long memories!)
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To: AppyPappy
Ahh..so if someone shoots you because they feel it was their natural right because you were white, you wouldn't have a problem with that?

More particularly, if they were charged with the commission of a *hate crime* rather than the shooting, I would indeed prefer to see that charge against them dismissed, even though a *not guilty* verdict would mean that under the constitution, they could not be again charged for that offense, not that that's stopped some corrupt federal prosecutors from applying federal charges to a defendant who has prevailed in a state court. The solution to that problem is to find the defendant not guilty again, despite the unconstitutional railroad job.

Otherwise, you'll be facing an ex post facto charge of treason against the constitution for your own comments, made in violation of the Clinton Anti-terrorism act to be passed next year. Your execution will be held tomorrow; you can appeal any time after that.

-archy-/-

37 posted on 03/12/2003 7:48:36 AM PST by archy (Keep in mind that the milk of human kindness comes from a beast that is both cannibal and a vampire.)
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To: The FRugitive
had a friend respond to the jury notification in crayon.
was never asked to serve again. :)
koz.
38 posted on 03/12/2003 7:48:47 AM PST by KOZ.
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To: HamiltonJay
They committed murder without question, but no way I would convict a parent for doing what any parent would do.

It depends on the charge. The parent could have felt threatened by the perp and the perp had proven himself a threat.

39 posted on 03/12/2003 7:48:55 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: EggsAckley
My husband gets called for jury duty at least once a year. He just tells the defending attorney that he knows the guy must be guilty or he wouldn't be here. He resents the intruding questions that they ask and just doesn't want to deal with it.
40 posted on 03/12/2003 7:49:24 AM PST by Eva
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To: rednek
I think that's the first answer to my question. Thanks. :)

Now, let me expand on that...what if I were to do that and did explain my reasons to other jurors - could I ever get in any trouble over that?
41 posted on 03/12/2003 7:50:50 AM PST by The FRugitive
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To: HamiltonJay
A juror/jury always has the right to NOT convict, regardless of the letter of the law, if they believe the person should not be prosecuted.

Everything you said after that was extraneous.

42 posted on 03/12/2003 7:51:13 AM PST by Protagoras
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To: Semper Paratus
It means that a juror, or jury, can't be forced to vote guilty regardless of the evidence. See OJ simpson case.

Incorrect example of jury nullification

Jury nullification has to do with making an unjust or unconstitutional law unenforcible by refusing to convict anyone for a violation of it. The jurors in the OJ trial had no objection to the laws against murder -- they just didn't think it was bad for a Black celebrity to kill a White woman. If OJ's victims had instead lain in wait and offed HIM, those jurors would have had different opinions. The point is, it's the LAW and not the PERSONALITIES involved

Examples of Jury Nullification:

etc, etc. Catch the distinction?
43 posted on 03/12/2003 7:51:30 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: The FRugitive
Have you ever drank alcohol? Have you ever taken drugs, ever taken legal ones? Do you own a gun, ever shot anybody? Have you ever been in a Turkish bath house?
44 posted on 03/12/2003 7:51:43 AM PST by showme_the_Glory (No more rhyming, and I mean it! ..Anybody got a peanut.....)
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To: The FRugitive
>>explain my reasons

Probably best not to, imo. Just vote to acquit (if thats what you want), and let it be.
45 posted on 03/12/2003 7:52:15 AM PST by freeper12
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To: AppyPappy
A juror's job is to do both.
46 posted on 03/12/2003 7:52:29 AM PST by Rifleman
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To: The FRugitive
The formal purpose of the trial is to determine if the Prosecution can prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt without violating the rules (constitutional, statutory, evidential, etc.) Jury nullification is independent of the above.
47 posted on 03/12/2003 7:52:36 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: The FRugitive
I went for jury duty last September and I had the time of my life! I answered every question honestly. I told the judge that I felt all lawyers and judges were less than honest, cited direct violations of the Supreme Court rules in my divorce. I went on to explain how each charge I filed against judges and lawyers were ignored and I said that unless I could question each witness I couldn't possibly make a fair determination of innocence or guilt.

The judge reminded me that the Constitution allows that each person has the opportunity to... I cut him off and told him that if the Constitution were truly in effect, Clinton would be in prison and each of the "jurors" who refused to look at all the evidence in the impeachment trial would have themselves been impeached.

I also told him that his oath as a member of the bar required him to file charges against each of the Senators who didn't look at all the evidence before casting their vote. I asked him if it would be okay if I said, during a trial, "I've seen enough, no more evidence, let's vote"
I then said: "I'm not going to ask you if you did file charges against those senators your Honor, but if you didn't, you are proving my assumption."
The group of potential jurors I was with gasped! The judge had no followup questions and, oddly enough, I was not chosen as a juror.

This is your opportunity to get your point out, have a day of entertainment and get paid $15.00 for your opinion.

48 posted on 03/12/2003 7:53:45 AM PST by The Brush
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To: rednek
All you have to do is vote to acquit. You do not have to explain or justify your vote to anyone.

Indeed, coming out and saying that you choose not to convict because you disagree with the law may be grounds for mistrial.

49 posted on 03/12/2003 7:55:35 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: FourtySeven
Don't bet on it . I get called whenever I move and always get picked. My husband used to laugh at that and say if they only knew your record for "hang him".
50 posted on 03/12/2003 7:56:36 AM PST by not-alone
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