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Beef Vs. Bagels: Food Companies Take on Dr. Atkins
Reuters Science via Yahoo ^ | 3-16-03 | Carey Gillam

Posted on 03/16/2003 1:57:19 PM PST by Pharmboy

OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (Reuters) - It has been months since Tina Moore last bit into a bagel or a slice of toast.

"Protein is good. Carbs are bad," says 41-year-old Moore, who altered her diet five years ago in a bid to lose weight.

Moore, the owner of a hair salon, is one of the estimated 15 million-plus Americans seen as devoted followers of dieting guru, Dr. Robert Atkins, who recommends eating protein for those who want to rid themselves of unwanted weight and keep the pounds off.

"Carbs and sugar ... they give you a quick high, then you get really low. You get tired and hungry," said Moore, who sees herself as a reformed "carbohydrate addict."

The hamburger patty is good, the hamburger bun bad, according to the teachings of Atkins, who has turned his philosophies into a dieting revolution, starting with his first book, "Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution," in 1972.

Atkins books -- his latest, "Atkins for Life," was published this year -- routinely top best-seller lists. Atkins companies have racked up millions of dollars in sales of specialty low-carb food products and carb-counting scales.

But the popularity of Atkins' eating advice, now appealing to another generation, is fraying the nerves of some food companies who rely on the consumer appetite for carbohydrate-laden foods such as pastas and pizzas, cakes, cookies and cereals, to add heft to their own bottom lines.

They claim Atkins is falsely disparaging food groups that serve as a foundation for American eating. And that by teaching people to severely limit the use of flour-based products, Atkins is eating into sales of some bread and cereal products in the United States.

"Our industry has to do something, and soon. It is starting to become a mainstream belief that carbohydrates are bad," said Judi Adams, director of the Wheat Foods Council, a consortium of industry players that includes ConAgra, General Mills and Kellogg Co.

"This Atkins diet -- or, I call it Fatkins diet -- is going out unchallenged. People are starting to believe it," Adams said.

Part of the consortium's push will be in Washington, where federal health officials are starting talks on revisions to the nation's 11-year-old Food Guide Pyramid.

Wheat Foods will be actively involved in defending the grains, Adams said.

Currently, the pyramid puts bread, cereals, rice and pasta as the foundation for healthy eating, recommending six to 11 servings a day. But some are pushing for changes that would move grains off the foundation, and cut back servings.

SLIM PICKINS

There is limited funding for the anti-Atkins campaign, as most food companies spend their advertising dollars on product specific programs to tout such things as new Berry-Burst Cheerios, recently released by General Mills.

So, with only a slender budget to try to counter the Atkins phenomenon, the Wheat Foods Council is aiming its "educational" campaign" at nutritionists and the medical community.

The strategy is a direct attack on Atkins: Americans who follow the Atkins diet increase their risk of health problems that include cardiovascular disease, high cholesterol, kidney damage and some cancers, the Wheat Foods Council says.

Adding insult to injury, it claims that Atkins followers can also suffer headaches, constipation and bad breath.

The council says obesity is not specifically tied to carbohydrates but is the simple result of lazy overeaters.

"Healthful grain-based foods have become the scapegoat for weight gain, when overeating and underexercising are at issue," said Carol Pratt, a Kellogg nutrition and regulatory affairs expert, and incoming chairwoman for Wheat Foods.

FEWER COOKIES AND CAKES

Consumer eating habits are hard to track, but the latest Consumer Expenditure Survey of the U.S. Department of Labor does indicate a possible shift away from grain-based foods.

According to the government survey, consumer spending in 2001 for ready-to-eat and cooked cereals, pasta, flour, flour mixes and bakery products dropped from the previous year even as consumer spending for meat, poultry, fish and eggs and other similar products increased for the third year in a row.

Moreover, the 0.2 percent decrease in spending came as the consumer price index (news - web sites) for those foods grew 2.9 percent. As well, wheat consumption in the United States dropped 4 percent from 1997 to 2001, according to industry research.

"I'm very much concerned," said Mark Dirkes, spokesman for Interstate Bakeries, the nation's largest wholesale baker and the maker of Wonder Bread. "He (Atkins) has run a very effective campaign. That just can't be good for our industry."

CLEANING OUT THE CABINETS

Among Atkins preachings: the elimination of "white flour-laden junk food" from kitchen cabinets, and research that Atkins says shows carbohydrates work to slow the body's burning of fat and make people feel hungrier faster.

And after decades of rejecting Atkins' theories, some new scientific research studies, including work by Harvard University, have started lending credence to Atkins' ideas.

Colette Heimowitz, director of research at the Atkins Health and Medical Information Services says over-consumption of bread, cereal and baked products is partly to blame for overweight Americans. Products made with white flour, sugars and hydrogenated oils are the worst.

Still, she says, Atkins is not looking to go to war with the food companies, and that even Atkins die-hards allow for an occasional doughnut or cookie.

"We teach people how to respect it and, on rare occasions, have it in moderation," she said. "We know people can't stay away from it forever."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: carbohydrates; diet; nutrition; obesity
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: linn37
Would love to find low carb breads.

I found low-carb bread at the health food store. It's only 4 carbs a slice, and it's pretty tasty. The slices aren't as big as a slice of regular bread, but it does fill that void. The brand name is Good Life.

51 posted on 03/16/2003 3:28:51 PM PST by Inspectorette
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To: Pharmboy
Thing is cutting out the carbs in cookies, cakes, doughnuts, pies, potato chips, nachos, corn chips, cheetos,sticky buns, etc etc You are also cutting out a hell of a lot of HYDROGENIZED FATS
52 posted on 03/16/2003 3:30:08 PM PST by uncbob ( building tomorrow)
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To: linn37
HEB grocery has low carb tortillas that are wonderful. After fiber is taken out, they are only 3 carbs. They have a green onion flavored one. Excellent.

Atkins is the only way I have ever lost weight. I started in 1997, lost 25 pounds, and have kept it off until this past year (started eating major carbs and junk again and crept up 15 pounds). I am back on and lost 5 pounds the first week. Ten more to go.

My energy level goes through the roof on Atkins too.
53 posted on 03/16/2003 3:30:23 PM PST by Lanza
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To: grimalkin
Cutting carbs from my diet has gotten rid of my hypoglycemic episodes, boosted my endurance, and trimmed me downed to the correct weight for my height and frame. My blood work is great. I don't have headaches or bad breath.

Two years ago, my middle daughter was having trouble in first grade. She would have "episodes" of hysterical crying from time to time in the afternoons. She had behavior problems. The school wanted her on Ritalin

I took her out and started homeschooling her and started doing some research on the Web. Some of her symptoms matched those of hypoglycemia, so I made some dietary changes. Instead of carbs for breakfast (oatmeal, french toast sticks, Eggo waffles), we substituted meat protein. The problems disappeared like magic.

We're still homeschooling her, she's doing great, and no more "episodes".

As close as I can figure it out, giving her carbs causes her blood sugar to spike, followed by a crash a couple of hours later. Meat and fat, which digest slowly, keep her blood-sugar at a more even level between meals.

I'm wondering how much of the problems we're having with young school-age kids, that we're treating with drugs like Ritalin, are actually niutritional problems caused by sending kids off to school with breakfasts that are mostly flour and sugar?

54 posted on 03/16/2003 3:30:35 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: Pharmboy
AGreed on Atkins. My brother went from near 400 lbs. to 225 on atkins, lowered his cholesterol and blood pressure. He's still overwieght, but much better than what he was. I lost 20 lbs. and am holding steady, still 20 lbs. overweight, but I cheat!

I just got his new book, Atkins For Life. Many common sense programs within. I'll never go back to suger and mega-carbs.

55 posted on 03/16/2003 3:41:59 PM PST by paul in cape
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To: Pharmboy
We are not built for such high carbo diets as eaten today

We ain't built for those Hi Carb/Hi Fat combinayions that we consume today

Those hi carb cakes pies cookie sticky buns potao chips nachos cheetos candy bars etc etc are also LOADED with HYDROGENIZED FATS

It is rare that foods except for booze and soda are strictly carbs
56 posted on 03/16/2003 3:52:19 PM PST by uncbob ( building tomorrow)
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To: Pharmboy
I'd appreciate any replies from everyone on this thread:

What do you think about Atkins (close to zero carbs) versus the Glycemic Index (avoid processed carbs) approaches?

I've been avoiding breads, white flour, white sugar, potatoes, etc. since last summer and have done reasonably well. Losing weight slowly, about 25 pounds so far, in about 7.5 months. But I seem to plateau for a month at a time, and wonder if I ought to go to a more radical zero-carbs approach?

Sometimes I eat steel-cut oats for breakfast, high-fiber Rye Crisp crackers for lunch, and beans and brown rice for dinner. These are relatively good on the Glycemic Index, but would be way too many carbs for Atkins.

Happy to hear anyone's feedback.

Also, I've been waiting for an Atkins thread to ask another question: Yogurt is listed as having the exact same carbs as milk. But isn't the whole point of yoghurt that the bacteria break down the lactose -- that's why it tastes sour? Anyone ever read anything on this point?
57 posted on 03/16/2003 3:57:42 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: not_apathetic_anymore
I've lost 30 lbs since the beginning of the year on Atkins.

I gotta call BS on this one. One pound is equal to 3,500 calories. To lose 30 pounds means you have to either cut out 100,000+ calories over a period of time below the basic burn rate level (2,000 calories/day for a 6' man), or accelerate the burn-rate level. Since there have been 72 days since the beginning of the year, even if you subsisted on bread/water alone (which is possible for around a month), you would have burned 140,000 calories.

58 posted on 03/16/2003 4:02:49 PM PST by Snerfling
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To: SauronOfMordor
I'm wondering how much of the problems we're having with young school-age kids, that we're treating with drugs like Ritalin, are actually niutritional problems caused by sending kids off to school with breakfasts that are mostly flour and sugar?

I think this may be more common that a lot of people realize. Some of these problems may also be caused by food allergies. All I know is, blood sugar crashes are *not* nice.

59 posted on 03/16/2003 4:05:29 PM PST by grimalkin
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To: Snerfling
It's not BS. You don't understand the science behind Atkins. The idea is to go into "ketosis" by restricting your carbs. Carbs stimulate the production of insulin which is what allows fat to be stored. Fat from the body is burned for fuel when in ketosis. You should go to the Atkins website and do some reading. It is not a calorie reduction diet. Here is something to think about: A person who eats nothing but a 1000 calories of fat per day will lose more weight than someone who is fasting. Odd, but true....
60 posted on 03/16/2003 4:31:23 PM PST by need_a_screen_name
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To: Maximilian
Here is a link to one of the best Atkins forums on the 'net to ask your questions at:

http://www.escribe.com/health/atkins/bb/index.html?

61 posted on 03/16/2003 4:34:25 PM PST by need_a_screen_name
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To: jacquej
I wish I could have your success. I am low-carbing, but I haven't lost much weight in the past 2 or 3 months (maybe 4 or 5 pounds). However, I can say I feel better. I have more energy, I don't get sleepy in the afternoon any more, and have fewer digestive problems. I still need to lose a log of weight, however, so I am frustrated by my inability to lose. Also, sometimes it's difficult at restaurants to order just low-carb stuff. Still, I'll keep trying. It has worked better for me than any low-cal, low-fat diet ever did.
62 posted on 03/16/2003 4:45:08 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: Paul_B
Actually I have 2 websites under construction, I launch one of them at the end of the month and the second one in mid May. Each chef will have a full biuld out concerning them and their cuisine and a full e-commerce package. 5 years in the making believe it or not, I also have a 504 offering that I just completed.
63 posted on 03/16/2003 4:46:44 PM PST by big bad easter bunny
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To: need_a_screen_name
Thanks 'need a name', I appreciate your assist. I replied priavtely and gave the actual numbers. Weight is clearly a touchy issue and while this is a pretty anonomous froum, I'd still prefer not to bare my soul with the actual numbers 'in public'.
64 posted on 03/16/2003 4:49:07 PM PST by not_apathetic_anymore
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To: linn37; Mean Daddy
Nature's Own brand has come out with a lower carb bread that is called "reduced carb", or something like that. I haven't seen it here in OK, but friends of mine buy it in Houston.

BTW, you're not really mean, are you? :)

65 posted on 03/16/2003 4:50:53 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: MosesKnows
The reason for the weight loss is the reduction of calories consumed

This oft repeated criticism cracks me up. Isn't this what all the health experts are trying to get us to do, reduce calories? I guess it's only good if you do it their way. The point of Atkins is, whether you reduce your calories or not, you lose weight without feeling starved all the time. For those who have never tried to diet, it is tough being hungry all day long. When I was on a standard low-cal diet, I knew I wasn't losing unless I went to bed with my stomach growling every night. Low carb eating enables me to at least stop gaining, to feel better, and to eat when I'm hungry. For me that's a miracle right there. BTW, for you Atkins fans, I highly recommend the book "Life Without Bread."

66 posted on 03/16/2003 4:57:21 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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To: need_a_screen_name
Hey, I know your weight loss isn't BS. My girlfriend that introduced me to Atkins lost 40 pounds in 4 months back in 1997.
67 posted on 03/16/2003 5:16:12 PM PST by Lanza
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To: Maximilian
What do you think about Atkins (close to zero carbs) versus the Glycemic Index (avoid processed carbs) approaches?

The "Glycemic Index" approach is one advocated by Larry North, a Dallas bodybuilder-turned-gym-owner.

His diet guru, Dr. Cliff Sheets, advocates the low glycemic diet but only if you are on a weight-lifting, aerobic exercise regimen. The intense exercise requires some complex carbs and will burn them off. In addition, weight lifters tend to burn off fat anyway.

I know I did. But I don't lift as intensely as I did ten years ago, nor do I do aerobic exercise every day.

So, I went on Atkins, eliminating most carbs (still have a glass of wine with dinner), and have maintained my weight at 190. I cheat once a week, eating whatever I want.

Atkins is a tremendous eating program, and, with all the stuff available today with more coming into stores every day, we're gradually going to put the sugar growers into serious hurt. Sucra, a sugar substitute, tastes like sugar but has zero effect on insulin. It's truly a miracle product, and hopefully we'll see more sucra-based desserts and products.

For me, the low-glycemic carbs were OK as long as I was lifting weights and walking an hour a day.

68 posted on 03/16/2003 5:21:30 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Pharmboy
The cheap-carb food companies need to put some ice on it. The word is out about the crud they produce, and if people aren't buying it, that's good.

If you look at most packaged snack products, they're mostly white flour, white sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and hydrogenated fat. You notice the food industries aren't encouraging people to eat brown rice or baked potatoes or anything else non-processed; instead, they want people to buy the high-priced junk.

69 posted on 03/16/2003 5:27:08 PM PST by valkyrieanne
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To: big bad easter bunny
I just discovered this site this past week. I printed off the listing of foods and take it with me to work (they have two versions, one of them making a nice little booklet). Too early to see any results but I figure this coupled with the exercise program I'm on should improve my figure!
70 posted on 03/16/2003 5:31:13 PM PST by CaptRon
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To: jacquej
I went on the Atkins diet and felt terrible. I just did not feel like myself. After 3 months I gave up and feasted on a huge peanut butter and jelly sandwich on two lovely slices of fresh seven grain bread plus a tall cold glass of milk. It was like medicine!!! I felt whole again!

I just have to have grains and milk. But thanks to Atkins I broke the habit of eating refined starches. When I eat carbs it is only the complex kind....whole wheat bread, beans and brown rice. My new food philosophy is to eat a varied diet of moderate amounts of whole, vitamin rich nutritious foods. I am happy with it.

71 posted on 03/16/2003 5:35:10 PM PST by Theresa
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To: jacquej
Thanks for the dressing tip.
72 posted on 03/16/2003 5:35:46 PM PST by Dubya (Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me)
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To: Snerfling
It isn't necessarily b.s. Some people who eat very high-carb diets also retain a lot of water. When they go low-carb, the diet change acts as a natural diuretic in the first month or so. So it's very possible in three months to lose 30 lbs or so. The rate of weight loss usually drops off after that, although some people (usually younger men) can still lose a fairly dramatic amount of weight for some time.
73 posted on 03/16/2003 5:37:18 PM PST by valkyrieanne
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To: Pharmboy
Atkins is the best! I have lost lots of weight and am never hungry. Too bad for those terrible fast food and frozen food crap companies. Time to get healthy!
74 posted on 03/16/2003 5:39:31 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Theresa
went on the Atkins diet and felt terrible. I just did not feel like myself. After 3 months I gave up and feasted on a huge peanut butter and jelly sandwich on two lovely slices of fresh seven grain bread plus a tall cold glass of milk. It was like medicine!!! I felt whole again!

People differ in their metabolism. I don't do Atkins; I do something closer to Carbohydrate Addicts or The Zone. It includes some carbs but low-glycemic ones. The weight loss isn't as dramatic as with Atkins.

75 posted on 03/16/2003 5:39:51 PM PST by valkyrieanne
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To: LenS
A smart food company would be working on low-carb alternatives and be prepared to sell to this new market.

My thoughts exactly. But try to find anything out there. I mean, it's incredible! It is a huge huge market and no one is attempting to step in and fill it. Insane!

76 posted on 03/16/2003 5:41:32 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: 24Karet
I am a true believer in Atkins. I have lost 32# on it, and feel just great.

Me too. The same. Feeling great and eating very well...

77 posted on 03/16/2003 5:46:08 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Pharmboy
Former carb addict here....still fighting it daily.

Lean proteins and leafy greens.

Thankg G-d for nuts, pure peanut butter or almond butter, sugar free jello and whipped cream, small amounts of artificial sugar or bittersweet chocolate.

One has to learn all the tricks, carbs are as addictive as ciggies.

I had some fries tonight when I took my 2 year old to McDonalds playland....gotta give in sometime.

I'm 45 and my version of Atkins is the only way I've found to keep weight off and feel full and energetic...plus it does wonders for your insulin levels and lipids.

Over carbing is the leading reason for diabetes
here...IMHO.

An H&H bagel tastes great but it's 4-500 calories. Have a burger instead or 8 oz of good fish.

Thanks for the thread.
78 posted on 03/16/2003 5:47:14 PM PST by wardaddy (Shake it, shake it, Sugaree)
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To: valkyrieanne
"People differ in their metabolism. "

True and I am only four feet ten inches tall. The Atkins diet is really a LOT of fat and calories for somebody my size. I do better by limiting my calorie intake to 1600 a day. I am taking my cue from the government recommended daily allowance. Actually it is a very good, balanced eating plan and you don't need fancy books to follow it!

"...The Zone. It includes some carbs but low-glycemic ones. The weight loss isn't as dramatic as with Atkins."

I think that would be better for you than Atkins. And it is more practical too. God made grains, beans and milk for a reason. They are good, wholesome and nutritious foods for crying out loud!

79 posted on 03/16/2003 5:54:16 PM PST by Theresa
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To: jacquej
How much synthroid do you take?

I take .2.....I had Graves and after 2 RAI treatments ended up hypo of course. That was 12 years ago now. Post treatment hypothyroid on Synthroid is a recipe for carb disorders and weight issues.


I went from thin and low lipids to 20% overweight and high-ish lipids. Low carb/high protein works for me....absolutely no question about it.

I am without a doubt addicted to sugar and breads but I maintain a lot of discipline about it.

If I fall off the wagon at holiday time and then get strict about it, I can lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks and my lipids get back down to low normal. I'm 6'5" and around 210...and I work at it...at 45 it's a wee bit harder.

Regards.
80 posted on 03/16/2003 5:54:16 PM PST by wardaddy (Shake it, shake it, Sugaree)
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To: linn37
Would love to find low carb breads.

We're tried a variety of brands and they all taste like sawdust. I make my own 7-grain bread (bread machine) which has lower carb content than most commercial brands and tastes terrific.

81 posted on 03/16/2003 6:02:42 PM PST by varina davis
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To: Pharmboy
Glucophage is better on that score and works differently.

Unfortunately, Glucophage makes me constantly feel ill and Avandia did even worse things. Hope nutrition is the answer.

Actually, it's only common sense that cutting back on sugar and high carbs will be healthier. That said, my ancestors had very long lives eating fat back, grits and cane syrup.

82 posted on 03/16/2003 6:10:01 PM PST by varina davis
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To: Pharmboy
What? Are we carnivores, not omnivores?
83 posted on 03/16/2003 6:20:42 PM PST by LibKill (The UN is of less use than dog doo in the gutter.)
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To: TruthNtegrity
I'm also going to check my thyroid. I frequently feel cold, and have found losing the last several pounds very very difficult, even with a low-carb regimen. At this point I suspect a hypoactive thyroid. I'm doing testing through the mail.
84 posted on 03/16/2003 6:20:42 PM PST by Paul_B
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To: angkor
Yeah, I don't get it. I've been on a high protein/low carb diet for 3 years now. Lost 20 lbs. right away. Cholesterol went to 180. BP is 115/65.

I must be a physical wreck, training for my rugby matches, playing handball and running exercise programs for my 30 year old friends. Then again....

85 posted on 03/16/2003 6:36:14 PM PST by Thommas
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To: Pharmboy
The greatest locarb bread on the planet is joebread. You can get it at www.joebread.com or at greenbeanz.com.
It is actually delicious.

Atkins rules. Trader Joes sells a whole line of locarb candy, not carbolite but another brand. It is excellent stuff.
86 posted on 03/16/2003 6:40:59 PM PST by diotima (nunc per ludum dorsum nudum fero tui sceleris)
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To: MosesKnows
It's nice to know the physiology behind the body's use of "calories." I can eat 2 lbs of wax, 3000 kcal, a day and starve to death within a month or two. I can eat 3 lbs of meat a day, 1500 kcal, with nothing else and die in several months due to the body's inefficient use of these calories for energy.

Likewise, I can eat 3 large snicker bars, 1350 kcal, a day and survive for years until diabetes and vascular disease ravage my corpulent frame.

87 posted on 03/16/2003 6:46:01 PM PST by Thommas
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To: Snerfling
Not BS at all. Protein calories are not utilized for energy production unless salvaged from the body's muscle mass after all the fat is gone. Cut the carb calories which normally fuel the liver's glucose/glucogen reserves, and the body is forced to derive its energy from its fat stores. Ergo, that 2000 kcal. a day is coming from your body's stores of fat.

I tried this 3 years ago and lost 20 lbs in two weeks. My spare tire disappeared, the striations in my muscles became evident and my cheek bones reemerged.

Nope. Not BS.

88 posted on 03/16/2003 6:57:45 PM PST by Thommas
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To: sinkspur
Well, well, well: lookie who's here. [snort]
89 posted on 03/16/2003 7:06:29 PM PST by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to)
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To: Pharmboy
Atkins has a lot of calumniators - the problem is, where's the evidence that it's harmful? Where's the pile of autopsy reports? A diet that lets you eat a mass quantity of great tasting food, never be hungry, and lose weight fast? There's only one group of people for whom the Atkins diet is contraindicated - world class athletes in training. They need and can use lots of carbs.
90 posted on 03/16/2003 7:06:43 PM PST by 185JHP ( Brisance. Puissance. Resolve.)
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To: wardaddy
Good for you; and, you are most cordially welcome.
91 posted on 03/16/2003 7:09:24 PM PST by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to)
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To: LibKill
We are obligate omnivores like rats, pigs and--to some extent--canines and bears. We need it all, but high carbs are not natural for us.
92 posted on 03/16/2003 7:11:32 PM PST by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to)
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To: wardaddy
I take 150 mgs levoxyl and 10 mmgs cytomel. The levoxyl wasn't doing the job as far as symptoms are concerned, do the endocrinologist decided I wasn't converting the t4 to t3 properly.

Even withe the cytomel added in, I still have days when the old motor keeps misfiring. And, I have to be very careful to stay away from carbohydrates. I have gotten most of the thyroid weight gain off, but still have some to go.

I am enjoying the diet, that is the most important thing!!! No more carbohydrate cravings trying to get my energy level up!
93 posted on 03/16/2003 7:23:52 PM PST by jacquej
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To: sinkspur
Sucra, a sugar substitute, tastes like sugar but has zero effect on insulin. It's truly a miracle product, and hopefully we'll see more sucra-based desserts and products.

Sucralose tastes good but it upset my stomach and made my face break out. It's unfortunate, because I can't stand NutraSweet and avoid it like the plague, but it seems sucralose has side effects for some people, too.

94 posted on 03/16/2003 7:31:44 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves
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To: diotima
Hey, thanks for the links to the bread sites! It is much appreciated.

I used to make the best homemade breads, but no more. I just might get inspired to try to make my own low carb bread if the loaves I order work for the tastebuds.

Now, have you ever found a low carb pasta that is worth boiling? I haven't yet.
95 posted on 03/16/2003 7:32:38 PM PST by jacquej
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To: jacquej
>>Now, have you ever found a low carb pasta that is worth boiling? I haven't yet.

There are some out there...I tried a variety that is made from 100% soy flour - made the house smell like a cattle feedlot when it cooked, and tasted like it smelled. I like whole wheat pastas, and there's a variety of pasta enriched with some soy protien that makes the per serving carb load reasonable - it's Soy7 - www.soy7.com
96 posted on 03/16/2003 7:36:56 PM PST by Keith in Iowa (Hans Blix didn't find anything here either...)
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To: Keith in Iowa
Thanks, Keith. I had tried the whole wheat pasta a few years back, but found ti too "gummy"...

Will try it again, though.
97 posted on 03/16/2003 7:44:04 PM PST by jacquej
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To: Maximilian
I've never tried Atkins, but I am currently using the "Body For Life" program. Basically, you eat six small meals a day, balancing carbs and protien at each one. You can't eat any old carbs, though. Whole wheat bread, baked potato, fruit, etc.

This program also includes an exercise routine. Weightlifting 3 times per week, 45 min. per session; cardio 3 days per week, 20 (intense) minutes. You can take one free day every week - eat whatever you want, no exercise.

I just started a few weeks ago, but I am seeing dramatic results. I haven't lost weight this quickly and easily since I was on the track team in high school. Before I discovered this program I was cutting calories and working out 45-60 minutes every day, six days a week, with very dissapointing results. I think the reason for that was a high carb diet - I ate lots of white bread, crackers, bagels, not nearly enough protien, and overtraining.

Overall, I think balancing the carbs with protien and not using strictly a low carb, high protien diet seems to work (for me anyway.)

Check out http://www.bodyforlife.com or http://www.hussman.org/fitness/index.htm for more info.
98 posted on 03/16/2003 7:47:06 PM PST by tamikamaria
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To: MosesKnows
"Counting carbohydrates is not the reason Atkin’s methods result in weight loss. The reason for the weight loss is the reduction of calories consumed and more importantly not allowing protein foods and starches in the same meal."

You obviously have not read any substantial amount of info about the Atkins diet. In his book he goes into detail about the diet he used for people and how it was not a reduction in calories.

The other negative comment most people make is that the people lost water weight only. That's a bunch of baloney. He has people in his clinic that have lost 150+ pounds on this diet. Are you telling me that's all water?

As for the vegetarian diet, the vast majority of people on a meat-less diet will be deficient in Vitamin B-12, along with a number of other vital nutrients, unless they take supplements.

I was on Atkins for awhile but I didn't really thrive on it. I know it's great for some people but it didn't suit me too well. I didn't lose much weight on it and I didn't feel all that great. A really interesting read is "The Metabolic Typing Diet", which goes into the research of how people from different cultures eat dramatically different diets, and how their health is affected. Some primitive tribes do very well on an all-meat diet, some do well only on a vegetarian diet. Others depend on a mix to stay healthy. It all depends on genetics. The book tries to help people find out what their genetic makeup predisposes them to be when it comes to diet, since the diet gurus in this country have tried to put us all on the same diet.
99 posted on 03/16/2003 7:49:31 PM PST by webstersII
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To: Maximilian
There is a very interesting book called "Life without Bread" by Christian B. Allan, Wolfgang Lutz. It shows research and it is their opinion that we should not be eating more than 75 grams a day. If you want to lose weight then you would eat fewer. Their book states that serious health issues start to arise when we consume more than that 75.

I found it very interesting and though I have read many more books on the subject, I found this the most interesting.

100 posted on 03/16/2003 7:51:09 PM PST by yuleeyahoo
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