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[Arab TV Claims] US Jet Shot Down by Iraqi Anti Aircraft Fire [Female Pilot Captured]
Islamic Republic News Agency and 'Al Arabiya' TV ^ | March 22, 2003 | BH/JB

Posted on 03/22/2003 1:35:19 PM PST by ewing

Iraq anti aircraft shot down an invading jet over Baghdad Saturday, the al-Arabiya television channel said.

The aircrafts pilot-a woman-and its co-pilot parachuted safely but were captured by Iraqi forces.

(Excerpt) Read more at irna.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Israel; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: arabtv; enemypropaganda; female; iraq; iraqifreedom; jet; pilot; taqiyya; taqiyyalist; war
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To: AlaninSA
He was teasing about another post on Mexian-Lesbian-War Protesters.

Geezsh, get over it alrady.

I'm German, imagine the hell I would go through if I were so thin skinned.

51 posted on 03/22/2003 1:54:53 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: RGSpincich
Viva La LPGA!


52 posted on 03/22/2003 1:56:25 PM PST by ewing
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To: ewing
Second source?

Right now I am doubt the validity of this article.
53 posted on 03/22/2003 1:57:48 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Jhoffa_
Let me place this into context. I'm reading a post on this while -- at the same time -- explaining the military and our efforts in Iraq to my four-year-old daughter (who happens to be of Mexican heritage).

Does my annoyance make some sense -- especially in the absence of the context of the leftist protest being referenced?

54 posted on 03/22/2003 1:58:30 PM PST by AlaninSA (Go GOPHERS! SKOL VIKINGS! WIN! TWINS!)
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To: Badabing Badaboom
The truth will eventually come out. Arab news, Pravda, DEBKA, STRATFOR, Rense.com, Reuters, ect., those news/sites I always suspect BS until other confirmation.
55 posted on 03/22/2003 1:59:12 PM PST by demlosers
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To: AlaninSA
Yes, but it wasn't an overtly racist comment. That was my point.

FWIW, I didn't think it was funny either, but it was offered as humor regardless.

56 posted on 03/22/2003 2:00:58 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: johniegrad
Female pilots do not fly combat missions.
57 posted on 03/22/2003 2:00:59 PM PST by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: Henchster
A young "up-and-coming" advisor decides it would be great propaganda to have a woman pilot lead a risky raid. It would also be great if she were a minority who led an "alternate lifestyle." Having few such "candidates" for such a mission, a "pilot" of lesser skill is selected, or even rushed through training so as to make the run. Of course, without the skill, and/or training, "pilot" panics under pressure and contributes to mission loss.

Anything here besides paranoia? There is no reason to make the initial assumption that a woman is a lesser pilot than a man.... They've been flyin' fighter planes for years now, and actually their relatively smaller frames and particulars in women's physiology make them fairly ideal for the job.

I hope this story is wrong, because I don't want to see any of our soldiers captured. I certainly don't want to see any of them insulted here either.

59 posted on 03/22/2003 2:07:46 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!)
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To: demlosers
Yep. I hope that there is nothing to back this up-we should know soon
60 posted on 03/22/2003 2:08:12 PM PST by ewing
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To: annyokie
Female pilots do not fly combat missions.

They sure do. See post #48.

Still, I doubt that this is correct.

61 posted on 03/22/2003 2:08:22 PM PST by TankerKC
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To: ApesForEvolution
Plenty here who think they should be. I'm not one of them.
62 posted on 03/22/2003 2:09:46 PM PST by wardaddy (G-dspeed our troops!)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Or just the USAF's version of Affirmative Action..

63 posted on 03/22/2003 2:10:37 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: AlaninSA
efforts in Iraq to my four-year-old daughter (who happens to be of Mexican heritage).

Read fast and scroll and you have yourself some Mexican lepricauns who are going to help us win the war.

64 posted on 03/22/2003 2:14:46 PM PST by RGSpincich
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To: Jhoffa_
JHoffa, I know from experience that you have issues, your tired tag line indicates that clearly. I am not licensed to fix you.

Unless you are a pilot, which I am (civillian) then don't tell me you know more than me about fitting into a little cockpit or flight physiology!

Women are not a strong as a man. But flying is not a muscle-dependent role. An F-16 is a great equalizer.

65 posted on 03/22/2003 2:15:48 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!)
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To: HairOfTheDog
Women can take higher G's, right? Think I heard something like that on Discovery
66 posted on 03/22/2003 2:18:18 PM PST by anguish (while science catches up.... mysticism!)
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To: Badabing Badaboom
It took weeks for the US to admit that Scott Speicher was shot down on the first night of Gulf War 1.

And rightly so. The US should never admit a pilot is down until his/her wearabouts are known and any possible rescue attempts have been made.

67 posted on 03/22/2003 2:19:48 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
whereabouts
68 posted on 03/22/2003 2:20:11 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: ewing
Arabs seldom tell the truth.
69 posted on 03/22/2003 2:20:37 PM PST by LaGrone
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To: anguish; HairOfTheDog
Is that true that women can take superior G's?

It wouldnt suprise me based on the differences in phyisology

70 posted on 03/22/2003 2:21:44 PM PST by ewing
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To: wardaddy
If and when women are drafted, there will be hell to pay. A society that uses women in warfare would promote the butchering of tens of millions of unborn babies too I suppose.
71 posted on 03/22/2003 2:22:42 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (Yes, let us allow the economies of gerdung, frunk, mexiztlan, chirushcom and canadastan to wither...)
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To: HairOfTheDog
"physiology.."

Yes, they are physically inferior to men, can bcome pregnant and 'drop out' of a war, adversely affect the decisions of the flight crew (Our EP3 crew claimed that was a factor in their decision to allow the plane to be taken apart by the Chi-coms as opposed o being ditched in the ocean.. "women on board") and heaven forbid they ever have to bail out of that plane or maintain it in the field..

Call it anything you want, but it looks more like affirmative action than superior "physiology" to me. Male "physiology" has served us well in combat for a long time now, no need to re-invent the wheel, imo.

Women have roles in war, but I don't think they belong anywhere near combat, regardless of how many times you watched "GI Jane"

72 posted on 03/22/2003 2:24:24 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: valkyrieanne
Debka, right?
73 posted on 03/22/2003 2:24:39 PM PST by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America)
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To: Jhoffa_
Don't waste your time. Being conservative on this forum these days means to many(most posting today) that we should applaud having women in combat.

If like me you oppose that for a myriad of reasons, then you are a neanderthal...or G-d forbid the new smear word...Paleo.

Women in combat is an indulgence....as one astute FReeper pointed out on another thread. An indulgence we can afford in a high tech overwhelming firepower superiority war like this one.

The culture warriors on this forum like myself are diminishing as a percentage. I fear it's simply the evolution of "conservatism" becoming more popular to those who have found they can't stomach the excesses of the left anymore or they are simply young conservatives more or less. They bring their PC indoctrination of the past 30 years with them. It's diluting but it's still better than if they hadn't seen the light at all.
74 posted on 03/22/2003 2:25:49 PM PST by wardaddy (G-dspeed our troops!)
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To: anguish
That's right. It has to do with smaller body mass, and distance from heart ot the brain, and also is a benefit that our muscles are less dense with higher fat content.
75 posted on 03/22/2003 2:26:13 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!)
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To: TankerKC
To my knowledge, female pilots are trained for combat, but are normally used to participate in combat support roles.

No commander is knowingly going to put a female in a known Hot Zone, with good conscience.

Albiet, all things are subject to change.
76 posted on 03/22/2003 2:27:13 PM PST by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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To: ApesForEvolution

Travis McGee made a good point about a country that sends it's next generation of mothers into combat not being worthy of survival.

Women don't like this fact and they seek to blame you for making it, like there's some problem with you for even suggesting it. It makes them very angry to even hear it spoken.

Truth is, if they want to be angry about it, they should go yell at God. He's the one who decided these things, We're just left to accomidate based on these decisions.

77 posted on 03/22/2003 2:28:21 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: wardaddy

You're right..

78 posted on 03/22/2003 2:29:35 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: ApesForEvolution
I could not agree more. I find it somewhat disturbing just how much support women in combat receives here...even though the path to that is littered with lowering standards to accomodate them from the academies to boot camp to carrier landing washout scores etc.

There was a time not long ago that one would have been hardpressed to find anyone calling themselves conservative who would endorse women in combat or on ships etc. Now they want submarines. Bush and Rummy have slowed their advance in this arena but they are still coming.

Nevertheless....any woman out there in harm's way saving our bacon has my prayers that she return home safe. Hopefully we can stem this social engineering down the road.
79 posted on 03/22/2003 2:31:04 PM PST by wardaddy (G-dspeed our troops!)
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To: annyokie
No commander is knowingly going to put a female in a known Hot Zone, with good conscience.

That's just not true.

80 posted on 03/22/2003 2:32:00 PM PST by TankerKC
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To: annyokie
To my knowledge, female pilots are trained for combat

Why waste taxdollars? Training pilots cost a fortune...just to appease the feminists. Like Travis said on the other thread....this is an indulgence right now.

81 posted on 03/22/2003 2:33:14 PM PST by wardaddy (G-dspeed our troops!)
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To: Ima Lurker
The Blixie Chicks! I love it!
82 posted on 03/22/2003 2:33:51 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (It's high time to secure the boarders and deport ALL illegals.)
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To: TankerKC
Well it ought to be.
83 posted on 03/22/2003 2:34:03 PM PST by wardaddy (G-dspeed our troops!)
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To: anguish
My niece's daughter is trained to fly fighter jets, refuelling planes and military transports. She has served two tours in Arabia, but right now, thankfully is stationed on the west coast, but could be called over there at any time. What a dreadful thought that any female could be subjected to capture by those perverted thugs!!
84 posted on 03/22/2003 2:34:29 PM PST by upcountry miss
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To: Jhoffa_
I am speaking to their ability as pilots. And the assumption that was made that any woman chosen would presumptively be a lesser pilot. My point is that there is nothing particularly unsuitable about women for flying planes, and that they have a few aspects that in fact make them good for the job. That is not a statement that women can do anything a man can do. Yes, men serve us well as pilots. So do women.

I don't know what you mean about the EP3 decision process re: landing versus ditching and it doesn't matter. A woman being there and a decision being made that you think was a bad one are not related except by proximity.

I have never seen GI Jane.
85 posted on 03/22/2003 2:34:34 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!)
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To: Jhoffa_
I agree with you regarding females in combat, I was just asking if that Discovery Show was true (regarding the differences between men and women)
86 posted on 03/22/2003 2:34:56 PM PST by ewing
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To: Badabing Badaboom
"It took weeks for the US to admit that Scott Speicher was shot down on the first night of Gulf War 1."

That statement is flat wrong. Cent Com announced that Speicher was shot down, and presumed dead the day after the mission was flown.

I remember because it sparked a great deal of discussion from the younger engineers in the group I was working in. (We had a new crop of college recruits that year.) Several were near the same age as Speicher -- they discussed with the sobriety that young twenty-something males do when they realize that people their age are mortal.

The issue with Speicher is that he was initially listed as KIA, and was not reclassified as a POW in the mid-1990s because a certain other president did not want to deal with the issue of getting him back. He *was* reclassified during the current Administration, which is more willing to face up to unpleasant realities than its predecessor.
87 posted on 03/22/2003 2:35:20 PM PST by No Truce With Kings (The opinions expressed are mine! Mine! MINE! All Mine!)
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To: battousai
Au Contraire. I know for a fact that there are female Electronic Warfare Officers flying in the Marine EA-6Bs. They also flew in Kosovo.

88 posted on 03/22/2003 2:35:26 PM PST by JoeGar
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To: TankerKC
It is my considered opinion that KC-135 Tankers do not close with the enemy.
89 posted on 03/22/2003 2:37:46 PM PST by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Didn't say that..

Lesser combat pilot in my opinion. Lesser combat anything, afaiac.

I don't think women belong in combat in planes, jeeps, air balloons, tanks, boats, hang gliders or shopping carts regardless of anything.

But, I don't want to fight about it. If you feel differently, I will be happy to simply not agree.

90 posted on 03/22/2003 2:38:34 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: Jhoffa_
The post I first responded to was not by you, it was by someone else, telling us the convoluted way he thinks the decision to let a woman fly might by made.
91 posted on 03/22/2003 2:40:21 PM PST by HairOfTheDog (The eagles are coming! The eagles are coming!)
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To: HairOfTheDog
I didn't respond to that part of the post. (frankly because I didn't understand it. I thought it was an attempt at humor or something.)
92 posted on 03/22/2003 2:42:17 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: annyokie
This is true. But, women also fly B-52s, F-16s, F-15s, and all other aircraft. Why do you refuse to beleive this? It's ok if you don't like it, but it is a fact.
93 posted on 03/22/2003 2:43:41 PM PST by TankerKC
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To: Jhoffa_
Good post. Women just don't belong in combat situations, in general, unless they're particularly manly-like, in which case, well...most men wouldn't want them around anyway. It's not good for morale.

Nonetheless, there are probably some fine women soldiers defending our freedom today.

94 posted on 03/22/2003 2:43:46 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (It's high time to secure the boarders and deport ALL illegals.)
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To: battousai
Women can't fly combat missions or aircraft so this is obviously some fake news...sheesh you'd think they would try to lie properly at least :)

Are you sure about that? If they can't fly combat missions, why would they train in front line, first rate airplanes?

Remember the lady pilot (and, I believe her RIO) who died in the F-14 Tomcat some years ago? I don't think that the Navy would be putting a woman in an F-14 if she wasn't going to be able to fly combat missions. Of course, I could be wrong.

Mark

95 posted on 03/22/2003 2:46:11 PM PST by MarkL (Belly Girl GOOD! Susan Sarandon BAD!!!!!)
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To: Dec31,1999
As long as the subject is on the table, I don't like the gays either.

I know that would have to have an effect on morale and cohesion.

I just don't like it, and I honestly wouldn't expect others to either.

96 posted on 03/22/2003 2:46:34 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: TankerKC
It is also a fact, whether you like it or not, Commanders will not intentionally place female pilots in intentionally Close Contact!
97 posted on 03/22/2003 2:48:19 PM PST by annyokie (provacative yet educational reading alert)
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To: Jhoffa_
I guess you'd have to tell that to Boudicca, Celtic Queen of Icena, who burned Roman Londinium to the ground in 61 A.D.

You also need to tell it to Artemisia, Warrior-Queen of Halicarnassus who slapped Athens with her superior battle strategy.

You would need to tell it to Queen Tomyris of the Massagetai who not only crushed the Persian army to avenge her son, but killed King Cyrus. According to ancient writings, "Search was made among the slain by order of the queen for the body of Cyrus, and when it was found she took a skin, and, filling it full of human blood, she dipped the head of Cyrus in the gore, saying, as she thus insulted the corpse, "I live and have conquered you in fight, and yet by you am I ruined, for you took my son with guile; but thus I make good my threat, and give you your fill of blood."

These were the women of old. They were motivated by many noble or not so noble virtues; but the American woman as warrior makes them look like rank amateurs. American women, motivated by love of God and Freedom are serving voluntarily and nobly in combat even now, and they are laying down their lives for you. My daughter will be among them.

What the American woman lacks in size and strength, she makes up in sheer rage and cold cruelty, not to mention the pure unadulterated emotional-magma of PMS. They are filled with the visions of Sept. 11, and it makes them want to kill the bastards who murdered our men, parents and our children. They are not men - nor do they want to be. They are the essence of the Woman as Warrior risen to the highest form. What they cannot accomplish through size and strength they will accomplish through skill and fortitude.

So if you don't think women should be warriors, go tell it to the Army, Navy, Coast Guard, and Air Force. Oh yeah, and go tell it to the Marines...

98 posted on 03/22/2003 2:51:16 PM PST by dandelion
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To: annyokie
Then document that fact, as I have documented the fact that there are, indeed, women pilots.

Have you ever been a commander? Do you know anyone who is/was? I really not sure where you are coming from on this.

99 posted on 03/22/2003 2:51:42 PM PST by TankerKC
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Comment #100 Removed by Moderator


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