CNN: Apache helicopters shot up in Republican Guard attack

CNN live ^ | March 23, 2003 | cnn

[Arkinsaw]

They are also damn easy to shoot down, and they are not designed for close ground support.

They are not that easy to shoot down with Triple-A and the Iraqis are not that good at shooting down B-52's.

As for your second point, they are good at carpet bombing. Carpet bombing is good at turning AAA gunners and infantryman brains into mush. They cannot take out the tanks, but they CAN take out the AA artillery and crew so the Apaches can get to the armor a bit easier.

It will be interesting to read someday how much air-defense supression went on before the Apaches went in to take on those tanks. We either did that supression and didn't do as well as expected or did not expect that much AAA.

[lavrenti]

The so-called "Karbala gap" is the gateway to Baghdad.

Also, there is telling what is being dropped on the 2-4 RG divisions on the southern outskirts.

Now it makes sense why the thugs were sent south to harass our troops.

It's all they have left.

[Thane_Banquo]

Then explain to me why we haven't bombed the Ministry of Defense in Baghdad. We haven't bombed it because we mistakenly think there are Iraqi leaders there negotiating surrender to us. By not bombing their MoD, we allow them to better maintain control of their forces.

In war, we must never negotiate. We can only gain true victory by bringing the enemy to his knees. WWII Admiral Bull Halsey was once asked his plan to win the war in the Pacific. He said, "Kill Japs, kill Japs, and kill more Japs." I like that battle plan.

[r9etb]

Apaches don't have Sidearms or Sidewinders...

Blame ABC News -- I did a cut and paste from their site. I did think those two seemed a little out of place, but I suppose they could mount them.

[LdSentinal]

Looking at my map . . . Karbala is less than 50 miles away from Bagdad.

[mikegi]

Its okay to ask this stuff. Its not traitorous to question these things.

Exactly! I posted because I want to understand why we couldn't use our bombers (which are basically immune to Iraqi fire) to do the job. I'm not "going wobbly" or anything of the kind. We are winning and killing thousands of Saddam's thugs. Is no one else concerned about alot of Apaches being put out of action when they might be needed to defend the 3rd ID when they engage the IRG tomorrow? It happened in Operation Anaconda.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

If you are going to use Apaches, you need to bring in armor as well to over whelm the enemy.

70 dead T-72's (the Iraqi's best tank) sounds pretty overwhelming. The results of this engagement speak for themselves.

[snooker]

>>>Aren't apaches made for busting tanks?

Yes they are. I think the anti-aircraft fire is what may have chewed them up around the edges. But that is why they have titanium crew compartments.

The in close fight is the toughest. What we don't know is how many smoking hulks they left on the field after they got back to base. I would bet the hellfires made a lot of kills.

snooker

[Arkinsaw]

Methinks that some of the 'handwringing' on this thread is as sincere as Daschle saying he's saddened that the president failed so miserably at diplomacy and the deaths of American troops would be his fault.

Get real. We are worried about our troops. We want to make sure that air defense is sufficiently supressed before throwing Apaches in. We want the Marines to be able to call for a bomb to take out a fortified position rather than jack with it for four hours.

Comparing those who ask these questions out of concern for the troops to Daschle is obnoxious.

[Centurion2000]

We are wasting American lives. We lost fewer combat deaths in Desert Storm

No disrespect but go get a map of that area. Compare Kuwait to Iraq .... the enemy was all bunched up in Kuwait and it was a damned turkey shoot at some points.

We're still killing thousands of the enemy,but until we actually send troops rolling over these positions you WILL NOT be seeing the results.

When the reporters get to the RG divisions after we've worked them over they are going to be looking at biblical amounts of death and destruction.

[CrimeOf73]

Are these 70 confirmed kills of real T-72's (not decoys)?

How many Apaches were lost (kill ratio)?

[cake_crumb]

"Again, funny thing this war."

Yes it is, and we know the media ain't telling even half of what they are allowed, even while follwing the security gag orders.

My personal opinion is that the rabid Ba'athists and their al Qaedabuddies will attack, but they're a minority. The rest will wait to see which way the firepower blows, and will either attack or stand down according to what they feel is most expedient for them at the time. No doubt some of the 'melters' are attempting to circle back behind the main body of Allied troops, but no doubt many of them are slinking home.

[Paraclete]

Let's face it. Most of these media people are probably scared spitless and never seen real battle. Hyperbole is going to rule.

[tessalu]

The USA and the UK needs to do a whole lot more bombing with cluster bombs and seek out the Republican Guard, and put more effort into getting rid of them. It is just not right to send our American soldiers into hornets nests with out softening them up first. I do not like what I am seeing. USA should not put infastructure before American troops. The protection of American troops should be foremost.

[Servant of the Nine]

They have a division of Iraqi armor dug in, I don't know why they don't just scout it out and cluster bomb the entire area.

Cause you don't get that many anti tank bomblets in a cliuster bomb. If we used every airplane we have we would be lucky to get 40% of them. It's easier if costlier to do it right.

SO9

[republicanwizard]

Baghdad is a sprawling city of 5 million people. It isn't quite as easy as most armchair generals might assume.

To the rest, I say that "General" Rove has nothing to do with the handling of the war. If Bush is making every effort to avoid civilian deaths, it is because such events would be potentially be harmful to our cause. However, I am sure that the President will quickly change such a position if the Iraqis try VietCong tactics on our troops.

I'm very suspicious when I hear people criticize a President's handling of a war and say that he is thinking of politics first. It reminds me of Northern Democrats during the Civil War.

[Thane_Banquo]

Are you talking about the President, you RAT in disguise?

RAT? If I were a RAT, I wouldn't be bitching about us being too soft. RATs would rather surrender then defend the US Constitution. Would a RAT call on us to be more ruthless against America's enemies?

[Scott from the Left Coast]

The report stated the 70 T-72's and talked about one Apache taking some hits from AA yet landing safely. The reporter did not have any information regarding any Apache's lost. As for more details than, you'll have to wait for tomorrow's briefing from Qatar.

[jragan2001]

Let's have a MOAB ready for that scumbag who paraded those
POW's on Al-Jazerra TV on Sunday. That was very lowlife
and disgusting.

[SierraWasp]

"because we thought that the "leaflet bombing" was going to cause mass surrenders."

And it probably would have without all the anti-administration demostrations being so well covered by our own traitoruous Hollywood media, along with the axis of weasels, Dasshole & Pillowsi along with that Demonicrat jerk from Michigan, Sean Penncilneck, the U.N., etc., etc.!!!

The Iraqis are so emboldened by now that even if S.H. was dead, they've named this war "The Ultimate Battle," instead of "The Mother of All Battles!" One of the greatest foreign policy teams in history is being thwarted by their own compassionate conservativism.

It just emboldens everyone to impose attrocities on you when you're so accomodating!!! No minds are ever gonna be changed in the appeaser/opposer crowd.