Posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
This explains why the Left is enamored of Islam: Islam's view of Man--that he is perfectible--and the function of Law--to force everyone to be perfect and conform to The Vision of the Anointed--is perfectly consistent with Communism, the Shining Path, Maoism, etc. The Christian view, that Man is damaged by Original Sin, and must be led toward virtue, but not restrained by force of law except when he becomes a vicious criminal, and that society will NEVER be perfect, and that most sins are outside the purview of the State, is anathema to Islam and all other Totalitarians. David Horowitz's main theme in his speeches is that you must understand that the Left has no hope of happiness in heaven. ALL their hope is pinned on creating the perfect society by force, in THIS WORLD. If you do not understand that ALL their hope is placed in this vision, you will never understand the rage and hatred they feel when Christians and orthodox Jews (neither of whom believe in human perfectibility) seem to stand in the way of the pursuit of this future state of perfection.
"Having said that, let's see what your evidence is for your statement that theocracies are more likely (than what) to abuse the people."
Well, for one thing, by their very nature, they view those who adhere to the State's religion as being "better" citizens than those who do not, and creates a situation where the State ennact laws, and enforces societal behavior based on the religious beliefs of the majority of the people, over the wishes or beliefs of the individual.
With the passing of time, it eventually becomes just the will of those who guide the Church, and those who guide the Church are not elected by the people.
"This notion keeps resurfacing, that in taking on Saddam, we are attacking Islam. It's a false premise. Saddam was a despot, an evil man who put himself before God's will."
That notion keeps resurfacing because someone is promoting it.
The Arab Nationalism propaganda machine, spearheaded by Wahabbi's, Al Yazeera, and even perhaps the French and German governments, are promoting the idea that the US is committing a criminal act by removing a criminal from power.
Are they the enemy as well?
I agree with your identification of the "Fatal Flaw" in that it agrees with God's Word regarding our inherent nature:
Sin entered God's perfect world when Adam and Eve gave in to the temptation offered by the Serpant, Satan. Since then, all mankind is born in sin - (Psa 51:5 NKJV) "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."
All men, since the Fall into sin, are spiritually dead in sins - (Eph 2:1-3 NKJV) "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, {2} in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, {3} among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."
In our fallen state, we are inclined ONLY to evil - (Gen 6:5 NKJV) "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
(Gen 8:21 NKJV) "And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done."
(Rom 8:7 NKJV) "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."
In addition, there is a fatal flaw of logic in the statement (highlighted by bold text). If man is inherently good, how can he be depraved by society that is made up of "inherently good" people?
I agree, but one has to be careful in definitions here. Evil in the Judeo/Christian tradition is defined as nothing but a perversion of good, or flawed good. This was first widely elucidated by St. Augustine. In other dualistic traditions--where they see evil and good in eternal struggle--evil has substance in itself.
The reason its important to define evil as perverted good, is that it reflects reality--every person has SOME partial good in them....and that doesn't contradict the idea that "Man is not inherently good" for we've already defined evil as "partially" good in that evil is perverted or twisted good.
I'm not sure, but a Moslem may agree with our definition of evil--the difference is (both with Jews & Moslems) they will say, by one's own unaided efforts you can become good, or at least better. Christianity though, has always said, that short of the empowerment of the grace of God (through Jesus & His work on the Cross) no one can ultimately do good--we are stuck in our "perverted or partial good" (or evil) ways.
The danger of Islam, if I read this article right, is that (like the secular ideologies of Marxism and Fascism) it is utopian--namely that through external means--a shari'a theocracy, people can be MADE good.
This is foolishness and more... Far more people have died to usher in "utopian" societies than the worst of less noble motivations.
That's exactly what it says, but it points to radicals, specifically bin Laden, and explains WHY they do it. Not just some vast, faceless, nameless "they".
The article said:
Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes.
I read that as saying WE are mounting this war to goad the Muslims into hating the west. My point is that there are large numbers of them that hate us anyway. My second point is that if we were mounting a war for the purpose of manipulating Muslim public opinion, the more logical approach would be to make them FEAR us. They seem to be of the opinion they can do anything to us and get away with it. They need to understand that's not the case.
Thanks for your response.
I do not believe that Islam is inherently threatening to us. I know this from my observation of some Muslims I know -(the only two I actually know well, to be honest). They are kind people who practice their religion faithfully. They appreciate America and honor George Bush, who they say will "do the right thing even if he is criticized for it." Frankly, I wish more Americans who were born here had these immigrants' understanding of what America is (or should be) all about. It's but a small example, but it is sufficient to prove the truism --Muslims can be sane and rational.
Now with respect to the hordes of America haters throughout the Muslim world, I think they are brainwashed and indoctrinated by zealots and opportunists. It is probably a waste of time to try and reason with them. We will deal with their rulers on the basis of commerce, oil, and money. The rulers will hold them in check and the people will eventually come to see America for what it is-- a bastion of freedom and democracy that will blow the living hell out of them if they want to start some sh*t.
In current society there is a mix of good and bad people. The problem is that the good people are mainly interested in living their lives and raising their kids. The evil people, OTOH, are engaged in the game of gaining power over others.
In any society where there is an office which exercises absolute power over others, all evil parties will be obsessed with seizing control of that office. Hayek discusses this at length in "The Road to Serfdom". Tolkien also covered the concept in "The Lord of the Rings". The essense of evil is the lust for power over others, and the way to restrain evil is to minimize the avenues for power. This is what the Founders of the US tried to do.
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