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Understanding Islam And Its Radicals
ConservativeTruth.org ^ | November 11, 2001 | Ana Barrett

Posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez

I was completely numb as I watched the videos of the attack on September 11. As the attack was investigated and we learned that the perpetrators were Islamic terrorists, I could not shake the thought that something in their religion made these attacks seem legitimate in their eyes.

So I started, very cautiously, to look into what Islam stands for and what it considers important. I did not want to jump to conclusions. I wanted to know the truth. As a Christian and a serious student of the Bible, I am familiar with the bloody passages of the Old Testament. For this reason I proceeded with caution in my research. My goal was to discover the truth about Islam. My research did include some limited reading of the Qur'an (known in the West as the Koran), but it mainly consisted of reading and listening to people who were very knowledgeable of the religion.

First of all, in order to understand Muslims we need to know what they think of Allah, and we need to look at their worldview. We need to understand moderate Muslims, but we also need an understanding of the radical point of view.

Dr. Samuel Schlorff, an expert on Islam with Arab World Ministries, has written an excellent paper on the religion. He makes a scholarly comparison between Christianity and Islam. Much of the information used in this article regarding the history of Islam was drawn from this paper.

Here are some key points of Islamic theology:

1. Allah is Absolutely Transcendent
Allah is unlike anything that exists. This means that Allah is completely mysterious. Muslims believe that they can know the truth about him, but they can't have any knowledge of him as a person. He is a distant god who lets only his will be known.

2. Divine Guidance
Muslims believe the Qur'an offers guidance for living life and it is usually referred to as "a guidance and mercy for believers." (Sura 27:77) Their law (the Shari'ah) consists of the Qur'an as well as other materials.

3. Islam is from Heaven
The Qur'an describes its revelation as a "sending down" of material from a heavenly being. Because it came in the Arabic language, it is referred to as a heavenly language. From this idea stems the thought that an Islamic community is of heavenly origin. Dr. Nabil Jabur was interviewed recently on Moody radio. He is the author of the book The Rumbling Volcano, which deals with radical Islam. He states that the Qur'an is comprised of recitations given by Muhammad, which Muslims believe came from Allah for specific situations. Thus, when Muhammad was experiencing a tranquil period in his life, the tolerant recitations came forth. When he was having problems with three Jewish tribes, the militant recitations came forth. The Qur'an teaches both peace and war.
Some verses dealing with tolerance are:
Sura 2:5-6 - There is no compulsion in religion.
Sura 5:82 - The nearest in affection to the believer are those who say we are Christian.
Dr. Jabur stated. "When only one side of the Qur'an is presented alone, that is not the truth."

4. A Community in Submission
The Islamic view of the world is that man is inherently good. If man is depraved by society, then any government can create a perfect society by enforcing Islamic law. Muhammad was the head of state of Medina, which Muslims believe was a perfect society. This form of Islamic government is considered by Muslims to be an example of living in true submission to divine law. This degree of submission is greater than any that exists outside of Islam. For Muslims such a community represents the kingdom of Allah on earth. They believe the future of Islam is to dominate the whole House of War (which is how they refer to the entire non-Muslim world) until it is controlled by an Islamic state. The ultimate goal is that the entire world be under Islamic law.

What does the word Islam mean? We have been told, that Islam is related to the Arabic word meaning "peace." This is partially accurate, except that the word means a specific kind of peace. A more accurate translation is "surrender" or "submission." It describes the calm that exists when a vanquished soldier lays down his arms in submission. Dr. Schlorff states, "The truth is that there is another side to Islam, a side that embraces violence 'in the way of Allah.'"

Sura 2:216 - Fighting is prescribed for you.
Sura 2:190-192 - Fight in the cause of god, those who fight you enslave them. Fight them until there is no more persecution and oppression and there prevails justice and faith in god.
Sura 9:5 - Fight and enslave infidels.

During his interview Dr. Jabur was asked what the typical Muslim would think of Osama bin Laden. Would they approve or disapprove of what he is doing? He stated that it would be possible for religious Muslims to have either opinion. Some are embarrassed by what bin Laden is doing. Others think that grievances which have existed for years have come to a head in a justified violent retaliation.

Dr. Jabur tried to illuminate the meaning of a phrase which is used by Muslims and which has not been explained to us. Jihad does not mean holy war. Jihad means "striving for god." It comes in three degrees: 1) Striving against sin in one's own life; 2) The act of motivating others to do good; and 3) Using violent means to stop a wrong act is justifiable if necessary. This third degree is the one with which we are most familiar.

After Muhammad died in Medina he was succeeded by four caliphs who ruled in his place. (A caliph is "one who comes after.") The leadership of Muhammad's Islamic society was divided. Sunnis accept that all four were legitimate. Shi'ites believe that only one, Ali, was the rightful successor. The result has been a division within the Muslim world pertaining to Islamic law and spiritual authority. That is why we do not have a single Muslim leader to whom the world can appeal to stand up and lead the Muslims of the world away from bin Laden.

Shortly after the Attack, Chuck Colson brought up some very interesting points on his radio show, Breakpoint. He stated that due to the lack of widely recognized Islamic leadership, bin Laden is attempting to unify the radical Muslims living in moderate Muslim states. He would like nothing more than to have them overthrow those states so that he can unify them and install himself as the leader of one large radical Islamic nation, and wage war against the West. As evidence of this, he pointed out that bin Laden has not shown much interest in the Palestinians in the past. Now he is speaking out in their behalf in order to gain their support.

Of course most Muslims do not support such violence as terrorism. However watching a Muslim country being bombed day after day might change the minds of even the most moderate and cause them to support bin Laden. Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes. The Qur'an supports both violence and peace. They may think that they can use violence now and then have peace on their own terms later


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; islamofascists; radicalislam
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This has to be the most balanced article that I've read on this subject, it's old, but for some reason was never posted in FR.

The thought that the true enemy is the Islamic religion in and of itself advances bin Laden's goal.

After the attacks on 9/11, the US government was left with no alternative other than retaliation of one sort or another. We had to extract radical Muslim terrorists, one's with no particular external association with any specific country, out of countries with existing hostile governments.

1 posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: William Wallace; Jhoffa_; hchutch; Torie; mhking; Miss Marple; Howlin; justshe; The Shrew
Your thoughts?
2 posted on 03/27/2003 8:28:20 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"The Islamic view of the world is that man is inherently good. If man is depraved by society, then any government can create a perfect society by enforcing Islamic law."

Fatal Flaw Bump.

3 posted on 03/27/2003 8:29:37 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: Brad Cloven
Which part?
4 posted on 03/27/2003 8:32:23 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Of course most Muslims do not support such violence as terrorism."

But a majority opposed the overthrow of the Taliban. Square that circle, please.

5 posted on 03/27/2003 8:32:34 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Man is not inherently good.
6 posted on 03/27/2003 8:33:04 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: Brad Cloven
The majority of the people living under the rule of the Taiban did not oppose the overthrow, the majority of the people NOT living under the rule of the Taliban opposed the overthrow.

The question is whether they opposed it on religious grounds "fight the invaders", because they supported terrorism, or whether they opposed the idea of America and other western powers conducting what they (and some of us) see as nation building by the US, and in accordance to western needs.

7 posted on 03/27/2003 8:38:08 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes.

Horsepuckey. They brought their hate to us.

Perhaps the plan is to make Muslims FEAR the West so much that they'll keep their terrorism at home, practicing it only on their wives and children.

8 posted on 03/27/2003 8:38:22 AM PST by jimt
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To: Brad Cloven
That's funny, I see the flaw as being the other half of the sentence. I see theocracies as being more likely to abuse the rights of the people.
9 posted on 03/27/2003 8:40:31 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I will take their unwillingness to oppose terrorists and terrorist states as support of same. Ambiguity on the question is out of the question.
10 posted on 03/27/2003 8:40:52 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: Brad Cloven
bttt
11 posted on 03/27/2003 8:41:25 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Allah is the adversary passing itself off as the true God, Adonai.

As long as there are great numbers of people 'worshiping' satan, there will be great trouble.

12 posted on 03/27/2003 8:41:37 AM PST by freedomson (Baruch haba b'shem Adonai!)
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To: jimt
"They brought their hate to us."

Did you not read the article?

That's exactly what it says, but it points to radicals, specifically bin Laden, and explains WHY they do it. Not just some vast, faceless, nameless "they".

13 posted on 03/27/2003 8:42:14 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Brad Cloven
The majority had no idea what the Taliban were really about. In fact, the majority of Moslems live in such wretchedly impoverished places it's likely they really have no idea what America is.
14 posted on 03/27/2003 8:43:12 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: Brad Cloven
So then, the enemy is terrorism as a form of warfare, people who committ terrorist acts, and those governments who either sponsor, or knowingly support terrorism by their passive stance.
15 posted on 03/27/2003 8:46:13 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Regarding theocracies, at the moment the world may have two or three. Over the last 1000 years there really haven't been many of them. A quick examination of the situation reveals that three nations alone, none of which were theocracies, have accounted for most of the oppression and terror deaths over that period. They are Red China, USSR and the Third Reich.

Having said that, let's see what your evidence is for your statement that theocracies are more likely (than what) to abuse the people.

16 posted on 03/27/2003 8:46:27 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Hitting-the-hammer-on-the-head BUMP!
17 posted on 03/27/2003 8:47:01 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Agreed. Fatal flaws abound in the Islamic world-view. Too bad for the average Joe, since the wrath of civilization is gonna crash down around his ears.
18 posted on 03/27/2003 8:47:23 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: muawiyah
We didn't try to understand the SS we just killed them!
19 posted on 03/27/2003 8:48:08 AM PST by Righty1
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"So then, the enemy is terrorism as a form of warfare, people who committ terrorist acts, and those governments who either sponsor, or knowingly support terrorism by their passive stance."

Bingo. Unfortunately, terrorism is well accepted by many Muslims. Taking Daniel Pipe's estimate that 10-15% of muslims are Islamofascist terrorist types, that means 120,000,000 want to convert or kill you while trying.

While we fight them, the other 90% become potential collateral damage. 'Twould be better if they got busy and cleansed their cultures of the fascists, for our JDAMs cannot separate them every time.

20 posted on 03/27/2003 8:50:28 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Wheat is Murder! (Tilling slaughters worms.....))
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To: Luis Gonzalez
So much wasted human effort on the ramblings of a psychotic 7th century pedophile.
21 posted on 03/27/2003 8:53:42 AM PST by Monty22
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I get to listen to daily radio shows called "The Holy Kuran" and "Great Men of Islam". The more I hear, the less I believe that it is a religion of peace.
22 posted on 03/27/2003 8:54:19 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excessive legislation.)
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To: Monty22
bingo.......
23 posted on 03/27/2003 8:54:57 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If the first is untrue, the second is also untrue.

Of course you can not create a perfect society with Shar'ia, nor a "new soviet man" by breaking down the interests of the individual, etc. etc.

Man is not inherently good.
Government that checks its own power and reconizes the inalienable rights of individual men maximizes good.
24 posted on 03/27/2003 8:55:56 AM PST by SarahW
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The Islamic view of the world is that man is inherently good. If man is depraved by society, then any government can create a perfect society by enforcing Islamic law.

This explains why the Left is enamored of Islam: Islam's view of Man--that he is perfectible--and the function of Law--to force everyone to be perfect and conform to The Vision of the Anointed--is perfectly consistent with Communism, the Shining Path, Maoism, etc. The Christian view, that Man is damaged by Original Sin, and must be led toward virtue, but not restrained by force of law except when he becomes a vicious criminal, and that society will NEVER be perfect, and that most sins are outside the purview of the State, is anathema to Islam and all other Totalitarians. David Horowitz's main theme in his speeches is that you must understand that the Left has no hope of happiness in heaven. ALL their hope is pinned on creating the perfect society by force, in THIS WORLD. If you do not understand that ALL their hope is placed in this vision, you will never understand the rage and hatred they feel when Christians and orthodox Jews (neither of whom believe in human perfectibility) seem to stand in the way of the pursuit of this future state of perfection.

25 posted on 03/27/2003 8:58:58 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan
Exactly.

Bookmarkable post.
26 posted on 03/27/2003 9:04:30 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
In Islam the emphasis is supposed to be on submission to the will of God, in Iraq the emphasis has been on submission to the will of Saddam. Rational Moslems know perfectly well that Saddam was acting in his own interests and not on the behalf of God. Saddam did far more harm to his fellow Moslems than anyone else.
This notion keeps resurfacing, that in taking on Saddam, we are attacking Islam. It's a false premise. Saddam was a despot, an evil man who put himself before God's will.
That ugly wolf wearing the ill-fitting sheep costume is still a wolf!
27 posted on 03/27/2003 9:05:24 AM PST by Sabatier
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To: muawiyah
"Having said that, let's see what your evidence is for your statement that theocracies are more likely (than what) to abuse the people."

Well, for one thing, by their very nature, they view those who adhere to the State's religion as being "better" citizens than those who do not, and creates a situation where the State ennact laws, and enforces societal behavior based on the religious beliefs of the majority of the people, over the wishes or beliefs of the individual.

With the passing of time, it eventually becomes just the will of those who guide the Church, and those who guide the Church are not elected by the people.

28 posted on 03/27/2003 9:13:04 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I think its a good artcile, but Wahabbi isn't mentioned, and seems to be the most extreme and dangerous interpretation.
29 posted on 03/27/2003 9:13:58 AM PST by rattrap
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To: Luis Gonzalez
At least with someone trying to follow a radical first century Christianity as opposed to 7th century Islam, you don't have to worry about anything more than someone trying to live at peace with all men, to do good to believers and unbelievers alike, to give no offense through his behavior, to obey the civil authorities, and to be ready to give, with gentleness and respect, when asked, a reason for the hope that is within him.
30 posted on 03/27/2003 9:16:21 AM PST by aruanan
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To: Sabatier
"This notion keeps resurfacing, that in taking on Saddam, we are attacking Islam. It's a false premise. Saddam was a despot, an evil man who put himself before God's will."

That notion keeps resurfacing because someone is promoting it.

The Arab Nationalism propaganda machine, spearheaded by Wahabbi's, Al Yazeera, and even perhaps the French and German governments, are promoting the idea that the US is committing a criminal act by removing a criminal from power.

Are they the enemy as well?

31 posted on 03/27/2003 9:18:20 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Brad Cloven
"The Islamic view of the world is that man is inherently good. If man is depraved by society, then any government can create a perfect society by enforcing Islamic law."

I agree with your identification of the "Fatal Flaw" in that it agrees with God's Word regarding our inherent nature:

Sin entered God's perfect world when Adam and Eve gave in to the temptation offered by the Serpant, Satan.  Since then, all mankind is born in sin - (Psa 51:5 NKJV)  "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me."

All men, since the Fall into sin, are spiritually dead in sins - (Eph 2:1-3 NKJV) "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, {2} in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, {3} among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."

In our fallen state, we are inclined ONLY to evil - (Gen 6:5 NKJV) "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

(Gen 8:21 NKJV)  "And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done."

(Rom 8:7 NKJV)  "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

In addition, there is a fatal flaw of logic in the statement (highlighted by bold text). If man is inherently good, how can he be depraved by society that is made up of "inherently good" people?

32 posted on 03/27/2003 9:22:10 AM PST by FatherOfLiberty (Tagline for rent. You can reach millions with your message.)
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To: Brad Cloven
Man is not inherently good.

I agree, but one has to be careful in definitions here. Evil in the Judeo/Christian tradition is defined as nothing but a perversion of good, or flawed good. This was first widely elucidated by St. Augustine. In other dualistic traditions--where they see evil and good in eternal struggle--evil has substance in itself.

The reason its important to define evil as perverted good, is that it reflects reality--every person has SOME partial good in them....and that doesn't contradict the idea that "Man is not inherently good" for we've already defined evil as "partially" good in that evil is perverted or twisted good.

I'm not sure, but a Moslem may agree with our definition of evil--the difference is (both with Jews & Moslems) they will say, by one's own unaided efforts you can become good, or at least better. Christianity though, has always said, that short of the empowerment of the grace of God (through Jesus & His work on the Cross) no one can ultimately do good--we are stuck in our "perverted or partial good" (or evil) ways.

The danger of Islam, if I read this article right, is that (like the secular ideologies of Marxism and Fascism) it is utopian--namely that through external means--a shari'a theocracy, people can be MADE good.

This is foolishness and more... Far more people have died to usher in "utopian" societies than the worst of less noble motivations.

33 posted on 03/27/2003 9:25:06 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: Arthur McGowan
Most excellent analysis bump.
34 posted on 03/27/2003 9:25:35 AM PST by FatherOfLiberty (Tagline for rent. You can reach millions with your message.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Did you not read the article?

That's exactly what it says, but it points to radicals, specifically bin Laden, and explains WHY they do it. Not just some vast, faceless, nameless "they".

The article said:

Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes.

I read that as saying WE are mounting this war to goad the Muslims into hating the west. My point is that there are large numbers of them that hate us anyway. My second point is that if we were mounting a war for the purpose of manipulating Muslim public opinion, the more logical approach would be to make them FEAR us. They seem to be of the opinion they can do anything to us and get away with it. They need to understand that's not the case.

35 posted on 03/27/2003 9:26:10 AM PST by jimt
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To: aruanan
In what I have read of the Qur’an, it seems to me that the actions of fighting, killing, etc. are called for as a reaction to aggression, and it further instructs Muslims to quit fighting once the aggressors have ceased fighting them, and yes Christianity is more of a passive religion, in a way advocating submission as does Islam. Christianity also instructs Christians to bring others to Jesus Christ so they may be saved.

Thanks for your response.

36 posted on 03/27/2003 9:28:35 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: swarthyguy; Paul Ross; knighthawk; dennisw; MizSterious; watchin; VOA; harpseal; timestax; ...
ping to islam is peace piece......
37 posted on 03/27/2003 9:32:21 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I am tired of trying to 'understand' radical Islamists. I have just come to accept "radical Islamist" as a self defining term and leave it at that.

I do not believe that Islam is inherently threatening to us. I know this from my observation of some Muslims I know -(the only two I actually know well, to be honest). They are kind people who practice their religion faithfully. They appreciate America and honor George Bush, who they say will "do the right thing even if he is criticized for it." Frankly, I wish more Americans who were born here had these immigrants' understanding of what America is (or should be) all about. It's but a small example, but it is sufficient to prove the truism --Muslims can be sane and rational.

Now with respect to the hordes of America haters throughout the Muslim world, I think they are brainwashed and indoctrinated by zealots and opportunists. It is probably a waste of time to try and reason with them. We will deal with their rulers on the basis of commerce, oil, and money. The rulers will hold them in check and the people will eventually come to see America for what it is-- a bastion of freedom and democracy that will blow the living hell out of them if they want to start some sh*t.

38 posted on 03/27/2003 9:33:53 AM PST by San Jacinto
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To: SarahW; Luis Gonzalez
Of course you can not create a perfect society with Shar'ia, nor a "new soviet man" by breaking down the interests of the individual, etc. etc. Man is not inherently good. Government that checks its own power and reconizes the inalienable rights of individual men maximizes good.

In current society there is a mix of good and bad people. The problem is that the good people are mainly interested in living their lives and raising their kids. The evil people, OTOH, are engaged in the game of gaining power over others.

In any society where there is an office which exercises absolute power over others, all evil parties will be obsessed with seizing control of that office. Hayek discusses this at length in "The Road to Serfdom". Tolkien also covered the concept in "The Lord of the Rings". The essense of evil is the lust for power over others, and the way to restrain evil is to minimize the avenues for power. This is what the Founders of the US tried to do.

39 posted on 03/27/2003 9:36:14 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: San Jacinto
You do well to keep that opinion as Islam is anything but a death cult.
...

Unprecedented call from Syria's top Muslim religious authority

'Resistance to the belligerent invaders is an obligation for all Muslims,' said Sheikh Ahmad Kaftaro.

DAMASCUS - Syrian mufti Sheikh Ahmad Kaftaro, the country's top Muslim religious authority, called Thursday for suicide bombings against the US and British invaders in Iraq.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/877335/posts?page=1
40 posted on 03/27/2003 9:36:54 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: Sabatier
In Islam the emphasis is supposed to be on submission to the will of God

Agreed, and there is also the elemental belief that all events -- even negative ones, are "the will of Allah." Strategic losses are not viewed as a failure of Islam, but as a failure in religious intensity.

I wonder how much these religious beliefs predispose Muslims to tolerating, even supporting, their own oppression?

41 posted on 03/27/2003 9:40:11 AM PST by browardchad
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To: muawiyah
Having said that, let's see what your evidence is for your statement that theocracies are more likely (than what) to abuse the people.

The fact that 70% of the world's refugees are Muslims fleeing Muslim reginmes might be one indicator.

42 posted on 03/27/2003 9:42:48 AM PST by tlrugit
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To: FatherOfLiberty
In our fallen state, we are inclined ONLY to evil -

Except that in our fallen state, we have never been wholly abandoned by G-d to the propensity toward total evil. He has been at work from the beginning in everybody, everywhere (well, unless you're a Calvinist, the Christian theological version of Islam) to provide both the consciousness of right and wrong as well as the will to try to follow the former and to eschew the latter. Some have responded with more alacrity than others to this universal grace than others.
43 posted on 03/27/2003 9:43:14 AM PST by aruanan
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To: SauronOfMordor
All have capacity for evil.
44 posted on 03/27/2003 9:43:42 AM PST by SarahW
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To: Brad Cloven
Correct! Since the Muslims don't believe in Original Sin, they don't have the humble notion that salvation only comes from humility, seeking after a close and responsive walk after God, asking for his foregiveness. Looking for spiritual guidance on the daily basis. Not rote slavery to some distant law-giver. The Muslims thence have an extremely arrogant notion that man, being good, need only obey allah. And by their enforcing Islamic law, their perfect society, the Taliban's afghanistan, was realized. Which of course was Hell on Earth.
45 posted on 03/27/2003 9:44:22 AM PST by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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To: jimt
You are parsing the article just like radical Muslims parse the Quor'an, the author said much before, and much after that, and what was said before and after modifies your interpretation.
"...bin Laden is attempting to unify the radical Muslims living in moderate Muslim states. He would like nothing more than to have them overthrow those states so that he can unify them and install himself as the leader of one large radical Islamic nation, and wage war against the West. As evidence of this, he pointed out that bin Laden has not shown much interest in the Palestinians in the past. Now he is speaking out in their behalf in order to gain their support."

"Of course most Muslims do not support such violence as terrorism. However watching a Muslim country being bombed day after day might change the minds of even the most moderate and cause them to support bin Laden. Perhaps that is the plan: Goad Muslims into hating the West so much that anything goes."

The premise is that bin Laden is attacking us in order to goad us into retaliation, so that in turn, Muslims can be goaded into hating us.

46 posted on 03/27/2003 9:53:32 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Ever So Humble Banana Republican)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
In what I have read of the Qur’an, it seems to me that the actions of fighting, killing, etc. are called for as a reaction to aggression, and it further instructs Muslims to quit fighting once the aggressors have ceased fighting them,

Many Islamists have a Clintonesque definition of "aggression". To many Islamists, any resistence to Islamization is "aggression". To many Islamists, any retaliation against a Muslim is aggression. So a Muslim may commit any act against an infidel, but if the infidel responds, the the Muslim may cry "aggression!"

47 posted on 03/27/2003 9:58:10 AM PST by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: Brad Cloven
Right, man is inherently evil...we must fight everyday to be "good".
48 posted on 03/27/2003 10:00:14 AM PST by Ga Rob ("Consensus is the ABSENCE of Leadership" The Iron Lady)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The question is whether they opposed it on religious grounds "fight the invaders", because they supported terrorism, or whether they opposed the idea of America and other western powers conducting what they (and some of us) see as nation building by the US, and in accordance to western needs.

IMO, it boils down to the fact that the Western rebuilding of Afghanistan is a particularly painful display of the contrast between our successful civilization and their failed one.

49 posted on 03/27/2003 10:05:34 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Luis Gonzalez
This article is misguided because it looks for a deep theological explanation for Bin Laden. A more compelling explanation is found in recent history.

All of the Governments in the Arabian peninisula are infected to a greater or lesser degree with a form of Islamo-Facism. This poisonous ideology was invented by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the period between WWI and WWII. This ideology combines elements of National Socialism with Pan Arbaic ideas.

The grip of Islamo-Facism is strongest in those Islamic countries with significant oil revenues. This dynamic is seen very clearly in the case of Iraq. Iraq is an old adminsitrative area of the Ottoman Empire. After the collapse of the Ottomans the British set up Iraq as a country basically to guard the Mosul and Kirkuk oil fields. Iraq as a country had no other rationale other than guarding two oil fields.

After the British left the Middle East in the 1960s Saddam emerged as the most ruthless strongman in Iraq. Since oil was Iraq's only viable export national power became synonymous with controlling the flow of oil. Once Saddam had attained control of the oil he began setting up a society along Facist lines since he needed no popular sanction as long as he controlled the oil. Saddam's terror apparatus and militarization if Iraq insure that Iraq is ideally suited for repression at home and agression abroad. To a large extent Iran and Syria are organized along similar lines.

It is clear to see that along as Islamo-Facism and Pan Arabism are the dominant ideas in the Arab world there can be no peace. Bin Laden is a largely a foonote to the Pan Arabic movement in the Arba peninsula.

The transformation of Iraq from Islamo-Facism into something more benign will be the most potent answer to Bin Laden-ism. Not only will Bin Laden be deprived of basing areas but the idea that Arabs must unite into a single state in Arabia in order to prosper will have been belied.
50 posted on 03/27/2003 10:05:45 AM PST by ggekko
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