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Jewish lawmakers threaten walk-out over reference to Jesus
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | April 3, 2003 | Diana Lynne

Posted on 04/03/2003 6:25:58 PM PST by honway

A Maryland minister was barred from giving the opening prayer in the state Senate after he refused to drop a reference to Jesus.

The Rev. David N. Hughes of the Trinity and Evangelical Church of Adamstown, Md., intended to round out his invocation yesterday with the line, "In Jesus' name, Amen." But the sergeant at arms – on the orders of Senate President Thomas Mike Miller Jr. – shut the reverend out of the body's chambers.

Miller issued the orders after two Jewish lawmakers threatened to stage a boycott of the legislative session if the phrase was not removed.

"I'm shocked by the response. I've never had this happen in 26 years," Hughes told the Frederick News-Post. "It just makes me feel that they've taken away my right as an American to pray, and this is the seat of government, and that's scary."

The pastor – a Vietnam veteran – was invited to give the prayer by Republican Sen. Alex Mooney. Hughes was Mooney's fourth guest. The other three were Jewish rabbis.

Opening up legislative sessions with prayer is a longstanding tradition in Maryland, as it is in states across the country. Mooney told WorldNetDaily no one had been barred from giving an invocation before. He sees irony in yesterday's "censorship."

Maryland state Republican Rep. Alex Mooney

"We were the first state to address religious tolerance in our state charter," he told WorldNetDaily. "This just shows a lack of tolerance for peoples' religious views."

Mooney recalled numerous instances of invocations referencing Jesus throughout the four years that he has been in office.

But at the beginning of the session this year, a string of invocations by Baptist preachers invoking the name Jesus Christ sparked debate on the issue. Miller appealed to lawmakers for tolerance and urged they stick to guidelines that call for invocations to be of an ecumenical nature and respectful of all faiths.

Webster's New World Dictionary defines ecumenical as "promoting cooperation or better understanding among differing religious faiths."

Since the debate, the Senate clerk screens prayers ahead of time and flagged the written text submitted by Hughes.

When Sens. Ida Ruben and Gloria Hollinger – both of whom are Jewish – heard of the reference, they asked Mooney to strike it.

"I said, 'Hey, I'll let him pray however he wants to pray. I'm not going to censor him and tell him how he needs to pray,'" Mooney told WND.

Ruben told the Frederick News-Post she then urged Hughes to substitute "messiah" for Jesus, telling him the reference could offend non-Christians and goes against the guidelines.

Neither Ruben nor Miller returned calls seeking comment.

"This is part of my faith," Hughes responded, according to Mooney. "The Gospel says when you pray, pray in Jesus' name."

The senators next asked to be excused from the floor during the prayer.

Paradoxically, a walk-out over a Muslim cleric's prayer opening a Washington state legislative session last month backfired on one Christian lawmaker.

Washington state Republican Rep. Lois McMahan

As WorldNetDaily reported, Rep. Lois McMahan, a Republican from Gig Harbor, Wash., refused to participate in the prayer and declared, "My god is not Muhammed."

"The Islamic religion is so ... part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said in an interview with the Seattle Post Intelligencer. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

But a day later, McMahan apologized on the floor of the state House of Representatives amid mounting furor over her stance.

Debate over invocations is raging elsewhere in the country. As WorldNetDaily reported, several Southern California cities are grappling with threats from both sides of the issue.

Under pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union to quit using the name Jesus Christ in invocations, the city of Lake Elsinore, in Riverside County, decided to eliminate mention of "religious figures." The decree subsequently had the apparent effect of eliminating the prayer altogether, as no local pastors would accept invitations to deliver the prayer, and city councilors adopted moments of silence instead.

The ACLU contends that praying at the request of a government entity is a violation of the First Amendment's prohibition against the establishment of religion.

But the nonprofit United States Justice Foundation, which threatened to sue the city if it failed to reverse its decision, maintains telling a pastor what to pray is a violation of his First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.

The notion of "separation of church and state" is derived from the dissenting opinion of the 1946 Supreme Court case Everson vs. Board of Education, which upheld a program allowing parents to be repaid from state funds for the costs of transportation to private religious schools. The court required only that the state maintain neutrality in its relations with various groups of religious believers.

"The decision in Everson does not rise to the level of being a battle cry for those who would wish to remove every vestige of religion from the public forum," USJF litigation counsel Richard Ackerman asserts.

"There's a push in this country to remove religion from society," Mooney echoed, "from the Supreme Court's decision on the Pledge to the ACLU going after all the Ten Commandments posted across the country. ... Nothing in the church-state relationship allows censorship and the removal of religious values from society."


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; christians; ecumenical; hypocrites; jews; liberals; maryland; silliness; watereddown
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To: Rasputin_TheMadMonk
and I don't have to embrace other cultures

Of course not.

The problem with your "logic" is that I was responding to your words where you were DEMANDING from others how to denote deities.

You are a real Rasputin. (No, it's not a compliment).

501 posted on 04/03/2003 11:16:05 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
. If you are in a mixed company, you seek a common ground. If you pray to G-d, you do not jeopardize any of your Christian beliefs and remain on common ground with Christians of all denominations, Jews, Muslims, and Hindu.

There is no common ground if we are discussing prayer. Who do non-believers pray to? Yet, you are not arguing THAT position. Oh no, we can pray. We just can't be "too Christian" about it.

502 posted on 04/03/2003 11:17:22 PM PST by Dianna
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To: TopQuark
""This is a Christian nation" implies by all standards of logic that if one is not a Christian, he is not an American. YOu may not mean it --- and I take your word for it that you do not --- but that is what you say."

Mm. Let's see. Not everyone who lives in Israel is Jewish. Does that mean they are no longer to be considered a Jewish nation?


503 posted on 04/03/2003 11:18:16 PM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: Delphinium
Surely. All those chaplains in the army, all those ministers on the Capitol Hill who somehow do this routinely without any problems --- they are all sellouts.

Looks like some people are more Christian than Christ around here.

504 posted on 04/03/2003 11:19:08 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
I am going to bed, its past my bedtime. I can continue in the morning. Good night.
505 posted on 04/03/2003 11:22:14 PM PST by Delphinium
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To: Bella_Bru
I never once said I wanted anyone to go away, except perhaps for certain liberals, but I digress.

Jew or gentile, believe what you please. Just don't expect me to put your culture before my own. No more than I would expect you to do the same for mine. My statement concerning God was made without thought to those of jewish ancestry, I don't tend to think of the jews nor the catholics, nor the hindus, nor the buddists, nor the islamicists, nor the raelians, etc. ad nauseum when I make a statement here. I speak from the north american, south eastern, anglo-saxon, baptist Christian point of view. Mine own and none other. It's between me and GOD and no one else matters.

Like it or not, I made no attack against you nor your beliefs, whatever they may be. I find your and TopQuarks indignation somewhat amusing, but that's all that it means to me. I don't 'have' to care.

I don't have to and as long as you live in America, neither do you. It's one of the benefits of living in The Republic.
506 posted on 04/03/2003 11:24:36 PM PST by Rasputin_TheMadMonk (Yes I am a bastard, but I'm a free, white, gun owning bastard. Just ask my exwife.)
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
I will help you send Shaq to Iraq and father if you'd do me a favor: read up on the thread; I can't start with you having spend our on it already. Get the context, you'll see that this not the issue.
507 posted on 04/03/2003 11:26:08 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: Bella_Bru
Jewish culture is part of American culture, and we are not going away.

I, and I'm sure the majority of Christians out there, don't want you to go away. You are a covenanted people, I have utmost respect for you. I will die and encourage my nation to do the same in order to protect Jews foreign and domestic alike. God sent Jesus to the Jews, and the Jews rejected Him. The Gentiles (the dogs at the master's table) welcomed Him and were offered salvation for it. Were it not for that act of rejection, where would my Gentile salvation stem from? I owe your heritage for my eternal soul, and still God reaches out to you, his most beloved people. You have my gratitude beyond measure, but I will not let those of your heritage talk me into rejecting Jesus, or downplaying Jesus, or avoiding talking about Jesus in public just because that is the Jewish tradition. If you want tolerance for Jews, then offer tolerance for Christians who are greatful to have Jesus as Saviour.
508 posted on 04/03/2003 11:26:17 PM PST by so_real
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To: Rasputin_TheMadMonk; sinkspur
I don't tend to think of the jews nor the catholics, nor the hindus, nor the buddists, nor the islamicists, nor the raelians, etc. ad nauseum when I make a statement here. I speak from the north american, south eastern, anglo-saxon, baptist Christian point of view. Mine own and none other. It's between me and GOD and no one else matters.

Ummm..Catholics ARE Christians.

509 posted on 04/03/2003 11:27:18 PM PST by Bella_Bru (For all your tagline needs. Don't delay! Orders shipped overnight.)
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To: TopQuark
Well TopQuark, excuse the hell out of me.

I didn't intend it as a demand, more a forceful request? If you took it that way, too bad.

So in closing :-P~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
510 posted on 04/03/2003 11:27:49 PM PST by Rasputin_TheMadMonk (Yes I am a bastard, but I'm a free, white, gun owning bastard. Just ask my exwife.)
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To: Bella_Bru
One last time,

The Catholics have a different viewpoint from mine own and I don't consider it in my posts. So please get off your soapbox.
511 posted on 04/03/2003 11:30:17 PM PST by Rasputin_TheMadMonk (Yes I am a bastard, but I'm a free, white, gun owning bastard. Just ask my exwife.)
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To: Bella_Bru
"Ummm..Catholics ARE Christians."

Ummm...Think by pinging Sinky you can stir the sh*t some more? LOL!

512 posted on 04/03/2003 11:31:18 PM PST by F16Fighter (Democrats -- The Party of Stalin and Chiraq)
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
Mm. Let's see. Not everyone who lives in Israel is Jewish. Does that mean they are no longer to be considered a Jewish nation?

That made me smile. A very good point. I'll use that the next time someone tries to correct me about our nation.
513 posted on 04/03/2003 11:31:52 PM PST by so_real
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To: F16Fighter
No, but I know that sinkspur is Catholic.
514 posted on 04/03/2003 11:35:52 PM PST by Bella_Bru (For all your tagline needs. Don't delay! Orders shipped overnight.)
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To: so_real
C'mon Bella_Bru! Think before you type! JESUS is the One who *GAVE* us the Lord's Prayer when His disciples asked how they should pray to GOD. Can you understand now how idiotic your statement is?

You're not being fair to Bella_Bru. Someone posted that Christians pray ONLY to Jesus. What I think Bells was saying is that the Lord's Prayer is directed to God, not Jesus.

Now, having said that.. you said that Jesus gave the disciples the Lord's Prayer when they asked how they should pray to God. And the Lord's Prayer clearly is directed TO God. Not Jesus. So, Jesus says to pray TO GOD!

So how can it be that Christians are supposed to pray ONLT to Jesus????

515 posted on 04/03/2003 11:39:26 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: Bella_Bru
Yeah, right.
516 posted on 04/03/2003 11:39:41 PM PST by F16Fighter (Democrats -- The Party of Stalin and Chiraq)
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To: F16Fighter
Well, if you are one of those folks that thinks it is ok to tell Catholics they are not Christians, then the Catholics around here should know.

Don't tell me you have never pinged anyone to a thread before.

517 posted on 04/03/2003 11:41:34 PM PST by Bella_Bru (For all your tagline needs. Don't delay! Orders shipped overnight.)
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To: Bella_Bru
I know where you're coming from, Bella -- just like you know where I'm coming from.
518 posted on 04/03/2003 11:43:48 PM PST by F16Fighter (Democrats -- The Party of Stalin and Chiraq)
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To: TopQuark
You are a real Rasputin. (No, it's not a compliment).

LOL Rasputin was a pervert!

519 posted on 04/03/2003 11:47:06 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: so_real
Gets your dander up, doesn't it? *chuckle*
520 posted on 04/03/2003 11:52:23 PM PST by LaineyDee
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To: ET(end tyranny)
I could almost find that offensive, but that would require me to care.

As for perversion, I probably am considered a prevert, I happen to be a man who enjoys the company of women, a good bottle of scotch and high capacity magazines and I believe in GOD. To some aberrant segments of the populous, that is perversion.

Last post to this thread, I've lost interest. Goodnight.
521 posted on 04/03/2003 11:52:35 PM PST by Rasputin_TheMadMonk (Yes I am a bastard, but I'm a free, white, gun owning bastard. Just ask my exwife.)
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To: TopQuark
I've read the whole thread and that's exactly the meaning. If the United States isn't a Christian nation because we have Jews, Muslims, etc as citizens then Israel can't be a Jewish nation because there are Christians and Muslims who live there.
522 posted on 04/03/2003 11:55:08 PM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: Rasputin_TheMadMonk
Well your screen name IS Rasputin. I merely commented to another poster about their comment to you. And Rasputin WAS a pervert!

So get all bothered at me, you chose your screen name.

523 posted on 04/03/2003 11:55:44 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: LaineyDee
Gets your dander up, doesn't it? *chuckle*

Sure does :-)
524 posted on 04/03/2003 11:55:55 PM PST by so_real
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To: so_real
Thank you. Others on this list are too stupid to get that.
525 posted on 04/03/2003 11:56:59 PM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: Illbay
SORRY, the Truth doesn't change depending on the audience.
526 posted on 04/03/2003 11:58:16 PM PST by newguy357
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
The point has been made that this is a nation founded on God, not christianity. Check your currency. In God We Trust. Not, In Jesus We Trust. In GOD We Trust. I think the founders were ever so wise to make the distinction.
527 posted on 04/03/2003 11:58:25 PM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: ET(end tyranny)
"Someone posted that Christians pray ONLY to Jesus"

No we pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus.
528 posted on 04/03/2003 11:58:26 PM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: ET(end tyranny)
So how can it be that Christians are supposed to pray ONLY to Jesus????

If someone has made such a statement, I would happily disagree. But Christians *do* pray in Christ's name. That's a big part of our religion and there's no reason to try and wrestle it away from us.
529 posted on 04/04/2003 12:01:04 AM PST by so_real
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To: ET(end tyranny)
The point has been made that this is a nation founded on God, not christianity. Check your currency. In God We Trust. Not, In Jesus We Trust. In GOD We Trust. I think the founders were ever so wise to make the distinction.

Jesus gave glory to God, and our founding fathers were ever so wise to follow suit. If you check your history books, you'll find the founding father's had abundant Christians.
530 posted on 04/04/2003 12:09:28 AM PST by so_real
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To: Illbay
Nothing chaps my hide more than someone trying to PUSH their beliefs on someone else when it isn't invited or appropriate.

I'm under the impression he WAS invited!

The pastor – a Vietnam veteran – was invited to give the prayer by Republican Sen. Alex Mooney. Hughes was Mooney's fourth guest. The other three were Jewish rabbis.

531 posted on 04/04/2003 12:10:23 AM PST by F-117A
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To: TopQuark
If you are in a mixed company, you seek a common ground. If you pray to G-d, you do not jeopardize any of your Christian beliefs and remain on common ground with Christians of all denominations, Jews, Muslims, and Hindu.

Thanks for the insult in preface to your response to me. I won't respond in kind.

If the minister's conscience bids him to pray "in Jesus name" anytime he prays (and we're not debating whether or not that in itself is appropriate), then to expect him to DROP the "in Jesus name" is to make the minister violate his own conscience.

Personally, in this situation if it were me, I would seek common ground, and pray to God, because my conscience is not bothered by saying the name "God", and omitting the ending of "in Jesus name." But maybe this minister is different. I know that there are some fundamentalist Christians (as well as Christians of other stripes) who would feel that it was a form of denying Christ NOT to finish a prayer with those words.

Maybe had the minister been aware of the fact that he wasn't supposed to say Jesus name, he would have declined the offer to lead the prayer, due to a violation of his conscience.

532 posted on 04/04/2003 12:10:28 AM PST by Proud2BAmerican
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
No we pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus.

Hey, I'm not the one that said Christians pray only to Jesus. But, I did retrieve the post for you. Better tell them!!

Ditto! It;s time for others to show some respect and tolerance. It is ONLY to Jesus that Christians pray. They have NO choice but to reference His name. To suggest otherwise would void the prayer.

327 posted on 04/03/2003 11:22 PM EST by nmh
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533 posted on 04/04/2003 12:11:59 AM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: so_real
Jesus gave glory to God, and our founding fathers were ever so wise to follow suit. If you check your history books, you'll find the founding father's had abundant Christians.

No doubt they were, I didn't say they weren't, only that they CHOSE to put God on our currency not Jesus.

534 posted on 04/04/2003 12:19:42 AM PST by ET(end tyranny) (Heavenly Father, please embrace, and protect, our Pres., our troops and those of our true allies.)
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To: SendShaqtoIraq
If you are interested, this is a good read: Were the Founding Fathers Christian?
535 posted on 04/04/2003 12:28:02 AM PST by so_real
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To: so_real
Thank you oh thank you oh thank you. Nice to have so much proof in ONE place.
536 posted on 04/04/2003 1:22:54 AM PST by SendShaqtoIraq
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To: wardaddy
That my view. American Jews should speak up for Israel and Jewish interests but there is not enough respect shown for Christian interests in a Christian founded, Christian inspired nation. In this case a very simple Christian interest of using Jesus' name in a public prayer. America and Israel are the best nations for Jews to live.  

It's not as though the minister was going on for 20 minutes about Jesus. 

I would possibly walk out on public Muslim prayers since this is not a Muslim founded nation, thank heavens.

537 posted on 04/04/2003 4:22:40 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Delphinium
It's pretty self explanatory. Who says the Jews are the ones making the trouble. The flip side is that the Christian is making trouble...
538 posted on 04/04/2003 4:24:55 AM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace ((the original))
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To: wardaddy
Also this seems to be an attempt to limit ministers to the Old Testament in public prayers. It's very nice this is the general practice but exceptions are no big deal.
539 posted on 04/04/2003 4:25:24 AM PST by dennisw
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Baruch Haba Bashem Adonai Yeshua HaMoshiach
540 posted on 04/04/2003 4:47:00 AM PST by Jeremiah Jr
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To: TopQuark
???

I don't have a clue now. I read #415 and agree. I am not sure as to what you are saying.

What I mean is the christian minister should say his prayer without having to alter it in any way. It was the Jewish that were being intolerant. Which is B/S.

Let's say I moved to Israel. I would not expect them to change in anyway, the way they pray, by the fact that I was in the same room. Which they would not do anyhow. If, I expected them to, I would be an intolerant butthole.

541 posted on 04/04/2003 4:56:47 AM PST by auggy
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To: yonif
I keep hearing that phrase being use "Judeo-Christian principles". When exactly did that phrase become in existence?

To require one to ignore Christ is by government officials is against the Constitution. Government is not to determine ones beliefs.

Why is it ok for Christians to be told what is ok and not to believe? To say and not to say? Whom to pray to and not to? Christians are not second class citizens.

Looks like the offence was to Christians from government.

542 posted on 04/04/2003 5:13:22 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Jeremiah Jr
Baruch Haba Bashem Adonai Yeshua HaMoshiach

Exodus 15:1-3 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Revelation 15:3-4 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

543 posted on 04/04/2003 5:30:09 AM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: All
Jesus went to the cross and died a grusome death for us.

The least we can do is mention His name when praying.

544 posted on 04/04/2003 5:31:33 AM PST by Jn316
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To: ET(end tyranny)
i believe that i understand your point and you, of course, are right...sorta...but the country was founded by a bunch of Christians and we have done pretty well living according to, for the most part, the culture and traditions of Christianity...i have never and probably will never understand people who are anti-jewish...the attack on the liberty notwithstanding where as you know the jews intentionally *slaughtered* 34 members of the crew and wounded, crippled, and mangled dozens more...mostly a bunch of Christians...but yet i and most Christians support and are protective of the courageous and resourceful people of israel because we believe the jews hold a unique position within our beliefs...we must support israel because the jews and their coming and staying home is necessary to meet prophecy...so relax and be comfortable with the fact that a bunch of Christians in a country founded on Christianity and yes, God, will never fail the jews...even though we will suffer and have suffered for it...and may suffer a nuclear war as a result of our determination that the jews must stay and prosper right where they are...can you say that of any other country in the world?...all religions, even Christianity, should be allowed to, when opening a session of congress, lead prayer according to their beliefs...the objections by the jews to closing a Christian prayer with "in jesus name ...." etc. is wrong and i got a nagging feeling that you know that...wrong and yes SHAMEFUL
545 posted on 04/04/2003 5:54:22 AM PST by mc10
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To: sauropod
This thread is wretched and has degraded to such an extent that I'm reluctant to even bump it up by one post. That being said, I'll put it like this - in the tact and decency department of this thread, if ignorance is bliss, then you have strived very hard to reach the highest state of nirvana. Some make thoughtless and inconsiderate statements out of naivete, but like most paleos, you do so deliberately, pretend you didn't mean the arrogance and condescension of your words - and then you get defensive when you're called on it.

I won't post again to this thread - you want the last word, take it.

546 posted on 04/04/2003 6:14:18 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine (going into an election campaign without the paleocons is like going to war without the French)
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To: honway; sauropod; sinkspur
"two Jewish lawmakers threatened to stage a boycott of the legislative session if the phrase was not removed."

Guys, Let'em go. Who needs intolerant buffoons making laws anyway. Peace and love, George.

547 posted on 04/04/2003 6:23:50 AM PST by George Frm Br00klyn Park (FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Yes the overcomers sing the Song of Moses which is recorded in Deuteronomy 32:

Wonder how many Christians are taught what the overcomers "Christians" will be singing?

1. "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; And hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.

2. My doctrine shall drop as the rain,
My speech shall distil as the dew,
As the small rain upon the tender herb,
And as the showers upon the grass:

3. Because I will publish the name of the LORD:
Ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4. He is the Rock, His work is perfect:
For all His ways are judgment:
A GOD of truth and without iniquity,
Just and right is HE.

5. They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children:
They are a perverse and crooked generation.

6. Do ye thus requite the LORD,
O folish People and unwise?
Is not HE thy Father that hath bought thee?
Hath HE not made thee, and established thee?

7. Remember the days of old,
Consider the years of many generations:
Ask thy father, and he will shew the;
Thy elders, and they will tell thee.

8. When the MOST HIGH divided to the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the People
According to the number of the children of Israel.

9. For the LORD'S portion is His People;
Jacob is the lot of His inheritance.

10. He found him in a desert land,
And in the waste howing wilderness;
He led him about, He instructed him,
He kept him as the apple of His eye.

11. As an eagle stirreth up her nest,
Fluttereth over her young,
Spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them,
Beareth them on her wings:

12 So the LORD alone did lead him,
And there was no strange GOD with him.

13. He made him ride on the high places of the earth,
That he might eat the increase of fields;
And He made him to suck honey out of the rock,
And oil our of the flinty rock;

14. Butter of kine, and mild of sheep,
With fat of lambs,
And rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats,
With the fat of kidneys of wheat;
And thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.

15. But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked:
Thou are waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness;
Then he forsook GOD Which made him,
And lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

16. They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods,
With abominations provoked they Him to anger.

17. They sacrificed unto devils, not to GOD:
To gods whom the knew not,
To new gods that came newly up,
Whom your fathers feared not.

18. Of the Rock That begat thee thou are unmindful,
And hast forgotten GOD That formed thee.

19. And when the LORD saw it, He abhorred them,
Because of the provoking of His sons, and of His daughters.

20. And He said, I will hide My face from them,
I will see what their end shall be:
For they are a very forward generation,
Children in whom is no faith.

21. They have moved Me to jealousy with that which is not GOD;
They have provoked Me to anger with their vanities:
And I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a People;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

22. For a fire is kindled in Mine anger,
And shall burn into the lowest hell,
And shall consume the earth with her increase,
And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

23. I will heap mischiefs upon them;
I will spend Mine arrows upon them.

24. They shall be burnt with hunger,
And devoured with burning heat,
And with bitter destruction:
I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them.
With the poison of serpents of the dust.

25. The sword without,
And terror within,
Shall destroy both the young man and the virgin,
The suckling also with the man of gray hairs.

26. I said, I would scatter them into corners,
I would make the remembrance of them to cease from
among men:

27. Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy,
Lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely,
And lest they should say, 'Our hand is high,
And the LORD hath not done all this.'

28 For they are a nation void of counsel,
Neither is there any understanding in them.

29. O that they were wise, that they understood this,
That they would consider their latter end!

30. How should one chase a thousand,
And two put ten thousand to flight,
Except their Rock had sold them,
And the LORD had shut them up?

31. For their rock is not as our ROCK,
Even our enemies themselves being judges.

32. For their vine is of the vine of Sodom,
And of the fields of Gomorrah:
Their grapes are grapes of gall,
Their clusters are bitter:

33. Their vine is the poison of dragons,
And the cruel venom of asps.

34. Is not this laid up in store with Me,
And sealed up among My treasures?

35. To ME belongeth vengeance, and recompence;
Their foot shall slide in due time:
For the day of their clamity is at hand,
And the things that shall come upon them make haste.

36. For the LORD shall judge His People,
and repent Himself for His servants,
When He seeth that their power is gone,
And there is non sut up, or left.

37. And He shall say, 'Where are their gods,
Their rock in whom they trusted,

38. Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offerings?
Let them rise up and h elp you,
And be your protection.

39. See now that I, even I, am HE,
And there is no god with ME:
I kill, and I make alive;
I wound, and I heal:
Neither is there any that can deliver ou of My hand.

40. For I lift up My hand to heaven,
And say, I live for ever,

41. If I whet My glittering sword,
And Mine hand take hold on judgement;
I will render vengeance to Mine enemies,
And will reward them that hate Me.

42. I will make Mine arrows drunk with blood,
And My sword shall devour flesh;
And that with the blood of the slain and of the captives,
From the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

43. Rejoice, O ye nations, with His people;
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And will render vengeance to His adversaries,
And will be merciful unto His land, and to His people.


548 posted on 04/04/2003 6:25:44 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Illbay; the_doc; Delphinium; drstevej; CARepubGal; RnMomof7; JesseShurun
If there was no way to make a prayer that would be acceptable to all involved, I might see your point. But in this case there are points of congruence between Christian, Jew and Muslim.

Even Buddhists and Hindus use the generic term "God" to mean deity.

A prayer to God would have been appropriate.
~ Illbay Woody.
549 posted on 04/04/2003 6:26:45 AM PST by CCWoody
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To: Illbay
How is saying "In Jesus name" getting in anyone's face?
550 posted on 04/04/2003 6:31:04 AM PST by carton253 (God Bless President Bush, the USA, and the troops who are moving to protect freedom)
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