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THE FAILED EDUCATION "REFORMS" (12-year old cuffed for puddle jumping)
NewsWithViews.com ^ | April 14, 2003 | Tom DeWeese

Posted on 04/13/2003 3:23:34 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay

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To: The Other Harry
I want it tomorrow - Tuesday latest and I don't have children in DC.

But I am saying vouchers are not going to fix it - vouchers will only ruin the private schools we have. It is not being suggested and would not be implemented for the good of all children - just 'qualified' children and that does not mean middle-income, working taxpaying people. It never has and never will.

I am not willing to pour more sand down the rathole by giving vouchers to people. People in failing school districts have the same voter clout and same voices as people in any other school district. You said it yourself, money is not the issue. Why don't these parents get in there and do something.

I just want the politicians to be honest and upfront about this. I truly believe big campaign contributors all over this country have the blueprints drawn up for their 'private' schools that will be getting this voucher money.

To me, the voucher issue is no different than the 'we need more money for the schools'. Just because it comes from the Republicans doesn't make it right or good -except for them.

When the government seems to offer money -be very wary - it is never, never to your advantage - unless of course you are one of the big guys.

51 posted on 04/13/2003 5:04:19 PM PDT by nanny
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To: AriOxman
"puddle boy cuffed" in my comments."There was no kid-glove treatment for a 12-year-old boy who stomped his feet in a puddle and sprayed classmates and a school official."
52 posted on 04/13/2003 5:07:19 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: nanny
Vouchers in Maine are used for those in rural towns without a school system.
53 posted on 04/13/2003 5:11:18 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: ChemistCat
Pregnant fifth graders??? Things are getting worse. And I thought it was bad enough when the junior high cheerleaders brought their babies to basketball games.
54 posted on 04/13/2003 5:11:26 PM PDT by OldEagle (Haven't been wrong since 1947.)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Along with all the economic problems looming on the near horizon, we have this. There is no future for the US. Kids are being treated like criminals, taught by Nazi's, herded into schools which are nothing more than warehouses and breeding grounds for bullies and gangs and most people seem to think this is normal. Wait till this mixed-up generation (thru no fault of their own--how can they know any differently) starts having kids of their own. Pregnant by 13. No family structure. This next generation raised from day one (since the schools have daycare for these young moms) within the very school system that failed their 'parents'. Depressing.
55 posted on 04/13/2003 5:12:51 PM PDT by plusone
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To: ladylib
Reasons why the Assocation of Classical and Christian Schools will NEVER accept vouchers or any kind of state certification for that matter:

I have been trying to say that for a long time and a lot of people are just refusing to consider the possibility. Of course, in doing that, they are totally not looking at the recent history of this country.

I fear for religious institutions with the 'faith-based initiative' issue. Just think of a small clinic that begins to get government funds, goes in to debt to expand to give more care to the needy and then ---- the government decides you must give abortions or loose your funding. They have already tried to attack Catholic hospitals on this basis.

I realize a lot of middle-income people have seen so much giveaway in their lifetime, they think, finally, someone is going to give me something. They need to look at what has happened to those people who took all the government 'help'. They are not better off for it.

Vouchers and faith-based initiative is just another way for the federal government to get its foot in the door and destroy the independence of religion.

56 posted on 04/13/2003 5:15:56 PM PDT by nanny
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To: fight_truth_decay
The point where schools started breaking down was when we stopped having schools being utterly accountable to the town political authority, as in "Problem in the school? The mayor better get somebody to fix it before election day"

These days, the schools obey the state Dept of Education, which is given orders by the Federal Dept of Ed, which is run by all sorts of touchy-feelie types.

Given a Principal with full and complete hire/fire/promote authority (something the teachers unions wouldn't stand for these days) and complete accountability for results (the kids can read, write, and do math, or we get another principal), would have things cleaning up real fast

57 posted on 04/13/2003 5:16:12 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Education read
58 posted on 04/13/2003 5:20:52 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: nanny
I agree with you. At one time, I was all for vouchers, but now I realize there will be too many strings attached. I would go along with it if there weren't any strings attached, but I doubt very much if that can be done.

This faith-based program is dangerous. I believe it's a ploy to get everyone under one big socialistic umbrella. "Who takes the king's gold is the king's man."
59 posted on 04/13/2003 5:22:18 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: SauronOfMordor
Parent-directed private schools or public schools that are accountable to the townspeople and only the townspeople -- no need for state aid. Keep the money in town.

How much do the feds kick in now -- 9 percent? They have an awful lot to say about local public schools and how they are to be run for that measly 9 percent. They trump the state even. And when the states accept that federal money, they realize only too late how much they are going to pay for it.

60 posted on 04/13/2003 5:28:39 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: OldEagle
How fast does society go downhill?

I was a HS freshman in '85. One of the seniors got pregnant and it was a very hush-hush type thing. She dropped out, if I remember right.

By the time I was a senior ('89), around a dozen of the freshman class were pregnant. It was no big deal.

61 posted on 04/13/2003 5:32:49 PM PDT by wbill
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To: ChemistCat
"The school my kids would go to has pregnant 5th graders attending class with the other kids, ..."

How many times have these pregnant 5th graders been held back?! You'll pardon my raising my eyebrows at this statement.....

62 posted on 04/13/2003 5:34:55 PM PDT by yooper
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To: fight_truth_decay
Just a question: There is no report in the wider press of this arresst.

The only report or mention of this is by Tom DeWees, poster and orignator of the article. If there is more documentation of this incident, please post it so we can verify.

Thanks.
63 posted on 04/13/2003 5:39:05 PM PDT by MangoCrazy
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To: MangoCrazy
I read about this story last year. It's not current and besides, it's not that unusual a story anymore.
64 posted on 04/13/2003 5:42:50 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: yooper
"How many times have these pregnant 5th graders been held back?!"

Held back??? Not real commom any more.
65 posted on 04/13/2003 5:44:25 PM PDT by OldEagle (Haven't been wrong since 1947.)
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To: MangoCrazy
*The above referenced "puddle boy was cuffed". Did it really happen? Yes.

Read my comment to the story I posted and the links..all right there. First thing I do on stories are check the sources. This was not so much about a boy cuffed..but what the bigger picture is.

Respectfully

F_T_D
66 posted on 04/13/2003 5:46:06 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: fight_truth_decay
FOLKS - WE WERE DUPPED!

THIS HAPPENED 4 YEARS AGO. HERE IS THE ARTICLE AND THE LINK:


Updated December 8, 1999, 10:25 a.m. ET

Fla. sixth-grader who stomped in puddle arrested



INVERNESS, Fla. (AP) — There was no kid-glove treatment for a 12-year-old boy who stomped his feet in a puddle and sprayed classmates and a school official.

Deputy Tim Langer hauled Kyle Fredrikson off to jail Monday and charged the boy with disruption of an educational institution, a misdemeanor, for the incident.

His parents, Chuck and Brenda Fredrikson, are outraged. "The inmates had access to him. Can you imagine that for stomping in a mud puddle?" said his father.

Authorities say Kyle was walking back to class from lunch when Langer said the boy "purposely stomped in the water" after being told numerous times by school personnel to stay with the group and out of the rain.

At that point, Langer took the sixth-grader to a school office where the boy was cuffed, put in a patrol car and taken to jail. After about two hours in a holding room alone, the sixth-grader was released to the custody of his mother and grandmother.

Lt. James Martone, who oversees the school resource officer program, said Langer made a proper arrest. Inverness Middle School Principal Cindy Staten said she and sheriff's officials discussed the incident Tuesday but didn't elaborate.

Kyle's family say he has a hyperactive disorder and is in a class with similar children. Langer should have taken that into account before arresting him, they say.

Kyle was back in school Tuesday.








67 posted on 04/13/2003 5:46:31 PM PDT by MangoCrazy
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To: OldEagle
With the No Child Left Behind Act, lots of kids are being held back in school because they can't pass their "high-stakes" test which is mandated by the federal government.
68 posted on 04/13/2003 5:46:35 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: MangoCrazy
You weren't duped. These stories pop up all the time now. They aren't unusual.
69 posted on 04/13/2003 5:48:46 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: fight_truth_decay
Are schools out-of-control dicipline-free hell holes or socialist gulags? Lets make up our minds here people. I hear both frequently. And it's not like it comes from ideaological opposites.
70 posted on 04/13/2003 5:49:00 PM PDT by MattAMiller (Iraq was liberated in my name, how about yours?)
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To: MangoCrazy
If you dumbed up and read the whole article and the comment you will see we already know "when" the article was written. Its not about the boy as much as the whole picture.

Take the time to read!!!

F_T_D
71 posted on 04/13/2003 5:51:37 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: ladylib
The ' duped ' Mango might be part of what we are talking about. ;)

Sorry, Mango. Try to absorb the article for more than jumping in puddles..that's not the story..read the comments so many have taken the time to so constructively post.

Respectfully
F_T_D
72 posted on 04/13/2003 5:54:46 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Lt. James Martone, who oversees the school resource officer program, said Langer made a proper arrest. "He did his job," Martone said.

A cop, or his supervisor, who thinks that arresting a twelve year old for splashing in a puddle is just doing his job needs to find another line of work. Giving a gun and police authority to someone who is this gung ho is just asking for trouble. What will he do when a couple of kids take a swing at each other... shoot them?... break their heads?

The school can discipline the boy by giving him detention or making him write an essay. The parents can ground the boy for the weekend and not let him watch any T.V. That would be proper discipline for the "crime" of splashing.
73 posted on 04/13/2003 5:57:24 PM PDT by redheadtoo
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To: fight_truth_decay
Mango could also do a search on zero-tolerance and come up with a whole bunch of stupidity foisted on public school students today.
74 posted on 04/13/2003 5:58:08 PM PDT by ladylib
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To: nanny
I'm hearing that too. I think it would be very, very bad for religious institutions to become dependent on government money. Right now, the only thing that saves them is their independence.
75 posted on 04/13/2003 5:58:27 PM PDT by Windcatcher ("So what did Doug use?" "He used...sarcasm!")
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To: wbill
I graduated in '87 from a Catholic high school (all boys, so no pregnancy stories, hee hee). The worst thing that ever happened then was a kid got hauled off to jail for dealing coke. JUST ONE KID. It was the talk of the school. We generally knew who the handful of potheads were, but that's as far as it went. If kids got in a fight they could look forward to having it broken up by the principal, who usually did so by beating them into submission. THEN he sent them to the dean, who just happened to be a USMC Major.

We're dinosaurs today. Old farts. I'm 33 and it scares the hell out of me.
76 posted on 04/13/2003 6:02:04 PM PDT by Windcatcher ("So what did Doug use?" "He used...sarcasm!")
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To: nanny
Mmmph, I don't think so, though I wish you were right. My husband is a military retiree. That tells you right there that while we have some security, we aren't exactly doing well. The most productive years of my husband's life were spent in the service of his country, and when he got out, he wasn't prepared to do the job he wants--teaching. Now he's jumping through all the absurd and crazy hoops of the educational unions & colleges.

My husband is working two jobs and going to school full time, while *I* am going to school 3/4 time, and we could definitely qualify for food stamps. If my husband quits one of his jobs, or is fired, we likely WILL NEED food stamps.
77 posted on 04/13/2003 6:09:07 PM PDT by ChemistCat (My new bumper sticker: MY OTHER DRIVER IS A ROCKET SCIENTIST)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Its because its communist infiltration. Read None dare call it treason by John A. Stormer it was written in the 60's and most of it is coming to pass, the education section the culure section the church section the Russia and china section.


Its all there every single thing that he said is happening in America. The schools are infiltrated by commies in America!
78 posted on 04/13/2003 6:09:46 PM PDT by TLBSHOW (The gift is to see the truth.....)
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To: Windcatcher
One dinosaur to another.....If your upbringing was anything like mine, the punishment at home was 10x what they could dish out at school.....

Of course, I got my learnin frum a public skool. :-)

Also, it was a rural school. The boys brought rifles during deer season. No one thought anything of it. Times have changed.....

79 posted on 04/13/2003 6:12:51 PM PDT by wbill
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To: TLBSHOW
The democrats nationalized education under LBJ, created the union monster, and the decline in education in America correlates perfectly with the establishment of the Federal Department of Education under Jimmy Carter.
80 posted on 04/13/2003 6:17:25 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: ladylib
With the No Child Left Behind Act, lots of kids are being held back in school because they can't pass their "high-stakes" test which is mandated by the federal government.

You ever seen the tests they give? A moron should be able to pass them.

It should be called the "Every child gets left behind" program. All for only $10,000 per pupil per year.

It does pay for the faculty donuts, though.

81 posted on 04/13/2003 6:29:13 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: fight_truth_decay
We need a new law that you can sue a school for. The "you have go to be kidding" suit. These leftist teachers do not seem to understand anything else. (I am certain they dont understand education.)
82 posted on 04/13/2003 6:29:41 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: All
Jeezus, I'm gonna explode.

The collective stupidity of the left and educators makes me belive that soon it will be time to purge these f**knuts from the collective conciousness.
83 posted on 04/13/2003 6:31:48 PM PDT by Stopislamnow
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To: fight_truth_decay
homeschool bump for later reading
84 posted on 04/13/2003 6:33:01 PM PDT by RightField (the older you get ..... the older "old" is ......)
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To: wbill
Also, it was a rural school. The boys brought rifles during deer season. No one thought anything of it. Times have changed...

My mother used to take a rifle to school. That was in rural Missouri.

85 posted on 04/13/2003 6:33:22 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: nanny
But I am saying vouchers are not going to fix it - vouchers will only ruin the private schools we have.

I think that's a valid objection.

The problem with it is that our current system is not working. Nor is it being "fixed". Not in any timely way.

It's time for us to try something different than what we are currently doing.

86 posted on 04/13/2003 6:37:22 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: Stopislamnow
Charlotte Iserbyt
July 8, 2002
NewsWithViews.com

The Supreme Court's recent 5-4 decision (conservatives in majority) allowing vouchers to pay for private/religious education will dumb down all education (public and private).

I can already hear the howling from voucher-supporting conservatives when the government lands on a private school denying it the right to determine "what is right and what is wrong".

Is school choice a plot to implement the socialist, corporate fascist, workforce training agenda for the global planned economy? You 'betcha.




We need to pay attention! The war has our attention now, yes; but we cannot turn our heads away from other issues at hand of such grave importance.
87 posted on 04/13/2003 6:44:04 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Is school choice a plot to implement the socialist, corporate fascist, workforce training agenda for the global planned economy? You 'betcha.

I'm not quite sure how freedom of choice can be that.

I'm also not quite sure why you put an apostrophe in front of the "betcha". Public school?

88 posted on 04/13/2003 6:51:03 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: The Other Harry
'betcha......I am below the line..that is the quote above as stated by the source. Small reference in comparison to the gist of the conversation at hand.

89 posted on 04/13/2003 6:57:19 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: Let's Roll
Every teacher who has feminist studies degrees should be fired. College degrees are getting soooo worthless.
Boys must be allowed to be boys. How else will they grow?
90 posted on 04/13/2003 6:59:30 PM PDT by longtermmemmory
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To: The Other Harry
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com
91 posted on 04/13/2003 7:02:42 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: ChemistCat
If my husband quits one of his jobs, or is fired, we likely WILL NEED food stamps.

While I do sympathize with you and realize what you are saying - you are describing probably 3/4 of the working families in this country. I will bet (and I am not a gambler so only bet on sure things), these hardworking people will not be eligible for the voucher system.

Think about it, the government never does anything without a reason and it never does anything that makes life easier for a working, taxpaying family.

I just want the government to tell the people the truth about this and I do not believe they are.

92 posted on 04/13/2003 7:02:58 PM PDT by nanny
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To: fight_truth_decay
I am below the line.

Lines always confuse me. ;)

93 posted on 04/13/2003 7:05:51 PM PDT by The Other Harry
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To: The Other Harry
It's time for us to try something different than what we are currently doing.

Yes, but this is essentially throwing more money at a problem, and destroying the private schools in the process. Also, it will not be available for those who are so ardently supporting it now. They are being sold a bill of goods and it is shameful.

94 posted on 04/13/2003 7:07:35 PM PDT by nanny
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To: fight_truth_decay
Mrs. Brogley noted that, over the past 40 years, education has been dumbed down, from fuzzy math to the dearth of phonics reading instruction to the inability of many students to use cursive handwriting.

Public educators, for the most part, have decided that the teaching of grammar, spelling and penmanship are just not needed anymore. These subjects used to be, and still are, considered the hallmarks of being a 'literate' person.

95 posted on 04/13/2003 7:12:05 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: fight_truth_decay
Preschool, formally known as kindergarten, is becoming mandatory.

This is incorrect. Kindergarten is not pre-school. Pre-school is pre-kindergarten.
96 posted on 04/13/2003 7:14:37 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: fight_truth_decay
Vouchers in Maine are used for those in rural towns without a school system.

I never thought about that - but I did know there were vouchers given in some large cities. But that is not like giving vouchers to thousands or millions of children to flock to private schools. If the intent was, as some see it or want to see it, that any and all children would be allowed to leave public school, there would be no more public schools and not enough private schools. Well, in will come private corporations to build private schools and if they should over-build or not please the parents, campaign contributions would make sure there were enough children 'directed' to those schools.

It is not going to be a simple - everyone gets a chance - it will be totally controlled by the government. As I said, anyone who thinks it will be hasn't paid any attention to our government and the way it 'helps' people.

97 posted on 04/13/2003 7:14:42 PM PDT by nanny
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To: aruanan
Preschool, formally known as kindergarten,

or..college formerly known as high school. ;)

98 posted on 04/13/2003 7:19:11 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay (occupied)
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To: fight_truth_decay
or..college formerly known as high school. ;)

Or 8th grade in the late 1800's.
99 posted on 04/13/2003 7:20:51 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: fight_truth_decay
The bigger question in all of this should be, why do we need to have police patrolling elementary schools in the first place?

Bring back dicipline and common sense to the schools and this kind of crap won't happen.


100 posted on 04/13/2003 7:25:28 PM PDT by unixfox (Close the borders, problem solved !)
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