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Update: Noah's Ark Investigation
Insightmag.com ^ | april-15-2003 | By Timothy W. Maier

Posted on 04/16/2003 3:32:02 PM PDT by green team 1999

Update: Noah's Ark Investigation

Posted April 15, 2003

By Timothy W. Maier
Nearly a week after the CIA released another record from its secret "Noah's Ark" file, this one including a note saying that U.S. intelligence agencies immediately destroy records from reconnaissance missions, Insight received another batch of declassified records that suggest the U.S. Navy may have shot a series of pictures of the anomaly on Mount Ararat. in 1974.

The released records consist of a 1993 memo to the deputy director of the CIA from William H.J. Manthorpe Jr. , deputy director of Naval Intelligence, and notes from a 1991 phone conversation between Naval Intelligence and a Petty Officer cameraman. The release of these previously classified records are a result of Insight's Freedom of Information request into all documents, records, and photographs taken of the Mt. Ararat anomaly in Turkey. Insight requested the records while researching its "Anomaly or Noah's Ark?" story [Nov. 20, 2000]. The CIA has claimed there are no records concerning Keyhole-7, Keyhole 9, and Keyhole 11 satellite shots, nor of U-2 and Air Force reconnaissance footage taken of the anomaly. However, the CIA forwarded the request to various other intelligence agencies, which slowly have released documents but no imagery as of yet.

The Petty Officer had requested to obtain photographs reportedly taken on or about June 17, 1974 of an anomaly on Mt. Ararat. "The SS Independence embarked F-4 Phantom from VF-33 took a number of photographs of an object located high up on the Soviet side of Mt. Ararat," according to the Petty Officer, who is not identified in the recently released records from a Naval Intelligence file. "The Independence was said to be en route to Athens for a scheduled liberty call and the F-4 reconnaissance flight delayed Independence's arrival in Athens by two days."

The Petty Officer was an Aviation Electrician Third Class (AE3). He claimed to have learned how to operate reconnaissance cameras by working with those who installed them on the aircraft. "My job involved ensuring that the central computer could communicate with the cameras once they were hooked up," he recalled. "The cameras were pod-mounted. The pods were a universal mount type camera. I'm sure they're used on many different kinds of aircraft. ... On the F-4 they hung under the inboard sponson under both wings. There were two of them. The pods would hook into a universal cable. The universal cable could hook to camera pods or weapons and ran back into the airframe where they hooked into the central computer system. Inside each pod, there were two cameras that sort of rotated inside a glass bubble. They would lock onto the desired target. They were framing cameras; they would take several hundred frames per minute."

According to the Petty Officer, in June 1974 the commander of the Air Group on the Independence asked "me whether I knew how to operate the cameras. I said yes and he said that he wanted me to make a flight. I guess the ranking pilots didn't want to take this mission. I had flown on a regular basis. I had quite a few flight hours because I would go up with the pilots to do aerial flight checks."

Despite, the Petty Officer's report, Deputy Director Manthorpe claimed Naval Intelligence "unable to locate any photographs," nor was it able to confirm that such a mission took place. He noted the Independence did not deploy for the Mediterranean until July 19, 1974, but did deploy with VF-33, an F-4J aircraft.

Manthorpe also noted that the ship's deck logs indicate it did not visit Athens during its 1974 deployment. "The claim that Independence visited Athens is suspect in light of the Greco-Turkish hostilities over Cyprus that resulted in the USS Inchon evacuation on 22 July 1974," Manthorpe argued. "Greco-American relations were tense during this time frame because of American support for Turkey. Even if the Greeks had permitted a liberty call safety of personnel probably would have caused [command] to cancel the liberty port."

Manthorpe also noted, that "having a Petty Officer fly as a back-seater for an F-4 mission instead of a Naval Flight Officer would have been highly unusual. He also pointed out that the Navy had no pod-mounted camera systems in 1974. In addition, Manthorpe said the deck logs show the "Independence never got closer to Mt. Ararat than Araklion Bay, Crete, at Latitude 35 degrees, 49.4' N. Longitude, 25 degrees 03.8' E. during its 1974 deployment."

The Petty Officer insists he took the photos, noting that the "Turkish government definitely knew we were up there. Coming back, we didn't refuel and by the time we got to the ship we were running on fumes."

Unless, another shipmate comes forward who was on that 1974 mission, the Petty Officer's claim will go down as just another story that vehemently disputed by Naval Intelligence.

Meanwhile DigitalGlobe of Colorado is hoping its QuickBird commercial satellite will snap the ultimate picture of the Ararat anomaly sometime this summer, once and for all solving the mystery. Quickbird was launched in October 2001 and is considered the world's highest resolution commercial imaging satellite. The resolution is far greater than Space Imaging, also of Colorado, was capable of producing when it shot the anomaly for Insight in 2000. The spectacular images taken by Space Imaging and published in Insight were analyzed by a world-renowned science team. Four of those scientists believed the object near the top of Mount Ararat was man-made. Two insisted it was a rock and one called the photographic evidence inconclusive.

for information and discusion only,not for profit etc,etc.


TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: mountararat; noahsark; usnavy; xfiles
what else the govmnt. knows about noah`s ark and mount ararat,
1 posted on 04/16/2003 3:32:02 PM PDT by green team 1999
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2 posted on 04/16/2003 3:36:44 PM PDT by green team 1999
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To: green team 1999
I still think if it is on TOP of Mt. Ararat, it is Noah's STARSHIP not Noah's ark .
3 posted on 04/16/2003 3:38:17 PM PDT by Renegade
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To: green team 1999
once and for all solving the mystery.

Yeah....right.

4 posted on 04/16/2003 3:40:24 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: green team 1999
Mt Ararat didn't become Mt Ararat until the 12th century. When the Bible was translated in to Armenian.

The problem is that the Armenians moved. Modern Archaeology has discovered that ancient Armenia is in the Mountains of north Iran. which would eplain how as the Bible says "And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in Shinar..."

5 posted on 04/16/2003 3:41:08 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: Renegade
well,it is something because too many agencies from the us are interested on that piece of land.
6 posted on 04/16/2003 3:42:13 PM PDT by green team 1999
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To: green team 1999
I was dubious before, but the photos do clearly show what look like man made red circles on the mountain.

I wonder how they got there.
7 posted on 04/16/2003 3:46:32 PM PDT by TheLooseThread
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To: green team 1999
June 17, 1974? We have satellites flying over every day!
8 posted on 04/16/2003 3:49:56 PM PDT by SwinneySwitch (Liberate Syria; Support the Troops!)
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To: green team 1999
Update

He also pointed out that the Navy had no pod-mounted camera systems in 1974.

The Navy utilized RF-8s and RA-5s for recce platforms not Phantoms. The Marine Corps had RF-4Bs flying with three VMCJ squadrons. However, this story doesn't pass the smell test.

9 posted on 04/16/2003 3:51:59 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: TheLooseThread
Red Circles?

That means it's either man-made or possibly,.....

MARTIAN MADE!!!!
10 posted on 04/16/2003 3:55:44 PM PDT by LieFreeGov
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To: green team 1999
The Petty Officer had requested to obtain photographs reportedly taken on or about June 17, 1974 of an anomaly on Mt. Ararat.

OK, here goes with the analysis.

"The Independence was said to be en route to Athens for a scheduled liberty call and the F-4 reconnaissance flight delayed Independence's arrival in Athens by two days."

This was at the time of the Cyprus mess.

We sure as hell weren't making any port calls.

The Petty Officer was an Aviation Electrician Third Class (AE3). He claimed to have learned how to operate reconnaissance cameras by working with those who installed them on the aircraft. "My job involved ensuring that the central computer could communicate with the cameras once they were hooked up," he recalled. "The cameras were pod-mounted.

The Navy didn't use pod-mounted cameras--they used RF-8 Crusaders and RA-5 Vigilantes for photorecon work in 1974, and they had built-in cameras, as they were dedicated to the photo mission.

The pods were a universal mount type camera. I'm sure they're used on many different kinds of aircraft. ... On the F-4 they hung under the inboard sponson under both wings.

Amazing that a sailor doesn't know the difference between a sponson and a pylon.

There were two of them. The pods would hook into a universal cable. The universal cable could hook to camera pods or weapons and ran back into the airframe where they hooked into the central computer system. Inside each pod, there were two cameras that sort of rotated inside a glass bubble. They would lock onto the desired target. They were framing cameras; they would take several hundred frames per minute."

Lots of technobabble,

According to the Petty Officer, in June 1974 the commander of the Air Group on the Independence asked "me whether I knew how to operate the cameras. I said yes and he said that he wanted me to make a flight.

Without a current altitude chamber card or a seat qualification, I'm sure.

I guess the ranking pilots didn't want to take this mission. I had flown on a regular basis. I had quite a few flight hours because I would go up with the pilots to do aerial flight checks."

That is a load of bulls**t. Functional checkflights were performed by a pilot and a naval flight officer, the same crew that normally flew.

Despite, the Petty Officer's report, Deputy Director Manthorpe claimed Naval Intelligence "unable to locate any photographs," nor was it able to confirm that such a mission took place.

And he supplies the reasons why:

He noted the Independence did not deploy for the Mediterranean until July 19, 1974, but did deploy with VF-33, an F-4J aircraft.

VF-33 flew Phantoms...but was still in Norfolk until a month AFTER the alleged flight.

Manthorpe also noted that the ship's deck logs indicate it did not visit Athens during its 1974 deployment.

No deck log...no port call.

"The claim that Independence visited Athens is suspect in light of the Greco-Turkish hostilities over Cyprus that resulted in the USS Inchon evacuation on 22 July 1974," Manthorpe argued. "Greco-American relations were tense during this time frame because of American support for Turkey.

Yup. It would be like making a liberty call in Basra in October, 1990.

Even if the Greeks had permitted a liberty call safety of personnel probably would have caused [command] to cancel the liberty port."

They would, too.

Manthorpe also noted, that "having a Petty Officer fly as a back-seater for an F-4 mission instead of a Naval Flight Officer would have been highly unusual. He also pointed out that the Navy had no pod-mounted camera systems in 1974.

As I noted--the first Navy camera pods were made for F-14 Tomcats in the 1980s, when the Navy phased out the RF-8 and the RA-5C.

In addition, Manthorpe said the deck logs show the "Independence never got closer to Mt. Ararat than Araklion Bay, Crete, at Latitude 35 degrees, 49.4' N. Longitude, 25 degrees 03.8' E. during its 1974 deployment."

That's quite a ways away, especially if they were flying on the SOVIET side of the mountain.

Amazing that he never talks about getting bounced by Soviet fighters.

The Petty Officer insists he took the photos, noting that the "Turkish government definitely knew we were up there. Coming back, we didn't refuel and by the time we got to the ship we were running on fumes."

Uh-huh, boy would you ever...

Unless, another shipmate comes forward who was on that 1974 mission, the Petty Officer's claim will go down as just another story that vehemently disputed by Naval Intelligence.

No, it comes off as a sea story told by another wannabe hero. Maybe he got his a$$ kicked for claiming to be a Navy SEAL.

11 posted on 04/16/2003 3:58:52 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Hadn't they reorganized the intel/support squadrons into VCMJ-2 (EA-6Bs) and VMFP-3 (RF-4Bs) by 1974?
12 posted on 04/16/2003 4:00:17 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: TheLooseThread
I was dubious before, but the photos do clearly show what look like man made red circles on the mountain.

No, you idiot. The red circles were DRAWN ON THE PHOTOS to identify the anomally.

Obviously, those red arrows are NOT natural phenonema. They had to be put there somehow. Maybe the worlds largest bow.

Strange indeed. ;-)

13 posted on 04/16/2003 4:00:34 PM PDT by TomB
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To: D Rider
If you want to find the Ark start here: The True Location of Noahs Ark and here Noah's Ark in Iran-not Turkey
14 posted on 04/16/2003 4:10:30 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: TomB
But what about the BLUE figure in the first pic?
15 posted on 04/16/2003 4:12:16 PM PDT by reagandemocrat
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To: green team 1999
It's in Texas.
16 posted on 04/16/2003 4:23:07 PM PDT by Blue Screen of Death
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To: Poohbah
1 July of 1975 - VMCJ-1 was disbanded, VMCJ-2 became VMAQ-2 and VMCJ-3 became VMFP-3: VMFP-3 got all the RF-4Bs and VMAQ-2 got all the EA-6As. Q-2 didn't start to transition to the Prowler until February of 1977.
17 posted on 04/16/2003 4:26:32 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: D Rider
Thanks for the links, they're fascinating.

Do you know if there are any expeditions planned or currently underway in Iran? I wonder if it would be more (or less) complicated to pursue research in Iran as compared to Turkey...

18 posted on 04/16/2003 4:28:42 PM PDT by Ferret Fawcet
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To: reagandemocrat
But what about the BLUE figure in the first pic?

Looks kinda like a flatbed truck.

Probably going to use it to bring the arrows down off the mountain for study.

19 posted on 04/16/2003 4:31:34 PM PDT by TomB
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To: Ferret Fawcet
Bob Cornuke has met with Iranian professors, who seem to be interested in the search. But I have no Idea if they have taken it any further.
20 posted on 04/16/2003 4:31:59 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: D Rider
Armenia: The biggest little country in the whole voyald.
21 posted on 04/16/2003 4:32:32 PM PDT by ricpic
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Ah.

BTW, there is no longer a single monster-sized VMAQ squadron. VMAQ-4 was forced to give up their "Seahawks" logo, too.
22 posted on 04/16/2003 4:33:12 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Blue Screen of Death
I sold it last week, to my cussin! LOL

When I was in Germany in my capacity in the Air Force, I looked up the satelite photos available for Mt. Ararat & discussed it with my boss. She, A Lt. Col., said it was well within our area of operational scope to order the photos and was ok'd by her. Low & behold, when I tried to order them, the request was denied, saying no photos never existed. Even though the reference document for satelite photos said such photos did exist. I was told to let it be. I have wondered ever since I first heard this story as a 12 year old kid.
23 posted on 04/16/2003 4:34:18 PM PDT by Teetop (democrats....... socialist.........whats the difference?)
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To: TheLooseThread
It's the giant red spears at the top of the mountain that concern me.
24 posted on 04/16/2003 4:37:27 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: TomB
Ya know, I usually hold back in situations like this but when you call a fellow freeper an idiot it might be time to let you know that TLT was making a JOKE.
25 posted on 04/16/2003 4:38:57 PM PDT by katana
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To: D Rider
thanks for the links.
26 posted on 04/16/2003 4:40:19 PM PDT by green team 1999
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To: TheLooseThread
Don't do that to me, now I have coffee coming out my nose.
27 posted on 04/16/2003 4:45:10 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: katana
I think TomB was also making a joke.
28 posted on 04/16/2003 4:46:40 PM PDT by GrandmaPatriot
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To: TheLooseThread
Richard C. Hoagland...White telephone please...Richard C. Hoagland...
29 posted on 04/16/2003 4:47:01 PM PDT by JennysCool
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To: Poohbah
Yeah, I know. Q-2 was split, on paper at least, in July of 1992. Det X-Ray became Q-1, Det Yankee became Q-2 and Det Zulu became Q-3. Q-4 used to be a reserve EA-6A squadron in MAG-49 up at Whidbey Island. Talk about doing that was going on in the early 80s. All four are home based at Cherry Point but the scuttlebutt way back when was that one each would be permanently stationed at the Pit, El Toro, Iwakuni and the fourth would be assigned to whichever CVW the squids couldn't support.
30 posted on 04/16/2003 4:48:41 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: green team 1999
What I don't understand is why anyone would still be interested in the anomaly, when everyone knows that the mystery was solved in 1963 by Kim Philby and others during Operation Declare.

The anomaly is the home of a bunch of supernatural beings called "djinns" who predated humanity. Everyone knows that.

31 posted on 04/16/2003 4:51:44 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: green team 1999
Indiana Jones on line #2...

"Top men..."
32 posted on 04/16/2003 5:02:11 PM PDT by Loyolas Mattman
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To: green team 1999
I was the operations yeoman with VF-33 attached to USS America CVA-66 in 1968. Although that's 6 years earlier than when this sea story supposedly took place I can tell you it's crap. Enlisted men did get "gedunk" rides if they got their "OMYASS" cards, and there may have been one such ride during my attachment to VF-33 but it damn sure was not off the ship. And certainly not in the Middle East.
33 posted on 04/16/2003 5:08:40 PM PDT by StACase
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To: GrandmaPatriot
I thought about that but felt the use of the word "idiot" was a bit strong. It's hard to tell when you can't see if they're smiling.

Regarding Noah's Ark, this stuff has always been intriguing but I see less in these photos than in some others of the same area I remember seeing before. The Turks have always been very touchy about letting anyone go near this place, usually with the reason that the area had Kurdish guerrilla activity. The other possibility is that they want nothing found which might confirm a story from the (Jewish and Christian) Bible. If they would relent and allow a real expedition this "mystery" would probably end up being another "Al Capone's Secret Vault".

Hmmmm, maybe we should send Geraldo!

34 posted on 04/16/2003 5:11:30 PM PDT by katana
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To: katana
It's hard to tell when you can't see if they're smiling.

I HATE having to explain EVERYTHING to some people.

This is the last line in my post:

    Strange indeed. ;-)

(SMILE enlarged, colored red and blinking for empahsis, just in case you missed it again.)
35 posted on 04/16/2003 5:28:51 PM PDT by TomB
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
MAG-49 should read MAG-42.
36 posted on 04/16/2003 6:26:52 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I was in Iwakuni at the same time the infamous "Det X-Tended" (Det X-Ray's year-long deployment because of Desert Storm) was there.

The Seahawks came aboard in August 1991 to relieve them. They had EA-6Bs by then.

The problem was that when they went to active duty, they had to get rid of their Seahawks football team logo.

37 posted on 04/17/2003 5:40:42 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Poohbah
The Seahawks football logo was still on their birds as recently as May of 2001 and the aircrew were all wearing the football logo patch. I took photos of BuSer 158802 with the football logo emblazoned on the "football". These photos are all mid '95 or later.


38 posted on 04/17/2003 7:39:26 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
With the reserve MAGs in pieces parts, it's easy to get the attitude that "parts is parts."

The old squadron logo was actually the Seahawks team logo; the new one is a lot less so.
39 posted on 04/17/2003 8:11:13 AM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: LieFreeGov
Red circles in the snow means that you should stop drinking and go see a doctor immediately.
40 posted on 04/17/2003 8:17:24 AM PDT by kaboom
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To: Poohbah
Yes, I know.


41 posted on 04/17/2003 8:28:06 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: green team 1999
Something new to reverse engineer AGAIN!!
42 posted on 04/17/2003 12:10:13 PM PDT by Renegade
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