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IRAN: God Wills It, But The People Don't Want It (Iranian youths calling Bush "the messiah")
strategypage.com ^ | April 24, 2003 | Q & D Headlines

Posted on 04/25/2003 7:55:21 AM PDT by Destro

IRAN: God Wills It, But The People Don't Want It

April 24, 2003: In Iran, young people are calling American president Bush "the messiah" and wondering when he will invade Iran and free the people from the dictatorship of the Islamic clergy. Meanwhile, the Islamic radicals see the departure of Saddam's forces as an opportunity to spread Islamic rule into Iraq. Most Iraqi Shias apparently don't want an Islamic republic. But neither do most Iranians. Makes no difference. God wills it and things are likely to get ugly before they get any better.

April 23, 2003: The Iranian rebels long based in Iraq, the People's Mujahadeen, say they have reached an understanding with American forces and have been allowed to keep their weapons and Iraq bases, as well as their goals of overthrowing the religious rules of Iran. The US government believes the People's Mujahadeen can muster about 5,000 fighters.

US Marine light armor are now patrolling parts of the Iraq border, checking for hostile (to America) Iranians crossing the border.

The US has warned Iran against sending agents and aid to Iraq in order to try and establish an Islamic republic.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bush; bushdoctrine; bushdoctrineunfold; geopolitics; iran; iranreform; iraq; iraqifreedom; july9th2003; marines; postwariraq; presidentbushlist; shias; shiite; shiites; southasia; southasialist; usmc; war
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1 posted on 04/25/2003 7:55:21 AM PDT by Destro
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To: Destro
What is wrong with these people? Can't they carry out their own trash. Ya know it's bad enough they have the audacity to murder our people and burn our flag then they expect us to clean out their toilets for free! And then after we finish the job they insult us. When they passed out the brass balls these guys must have been first in line. Semper Fi
2 posted on 04/25/2003 8:02:20 AM PDT by kellynla ( "C" 1/5 1st Mar Div '69 & '70 An Hoa, Viet Nam Semper Fi)
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To: Destro
Holy Crap!

Is Messiah in the Koran anywhere?

If not, somebody's been sneakin' Jesus in that country.

Talk about your brass balls!
3 posted on 04/25/2003 8:03:48 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: mabelkitty
The Arabic (and probably Persian) word for Christian is Masihi (pronounced: maseehee). It means a "follower of the Messiah".
4 posted on 04/25/2003 8:06:30 AM PDT by katana
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
yes, but it was 12 monkeys.
7 posted on 04/25/2003 8:09:27 AM PDT by demosthenes the elder (If *I* can afford $5/month to support FR: SO CAN YOU)
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To: Destro
My best friend is an Iranian expat
He and I had a discussion on this very topic some few weeks ago.
He said something very like the content of this article.
Dubya might just be able to pull off a hattrick here.
8 posted on 04/25/2003 8:11:16 AM PDT by demosthenes the elder (If *I* can afford $5/month to support FR: SO CAN YOU)
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To: Destro
So this is the "angry response" from the "Arab street" that the Liberals warned us about.

Steeeee-rike!

-Jay
9 posted on 04/25/2003 8:13:22 AM PDT by Jay D. Dyson (Terrorists of the world, RISE UP! [So I may more easily gun you down.])
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To: Jay D. Dyson
Iranians are not Arabs.
10 posted on 04/25/2003 8:14:17 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: seamole
ah.
12 posted on 04/25/2003 8:18:16 AM PDT by demosthenes the elder (If *I* can afford $5/month to support FR: SO CAN YOU)
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To: Destro
having once made the mistake of calling a Persian an Arab (yes, the same man who is now my best friend) and hyaving received a full set of lumps for the error, I can say: No shi'ite!
13 posted on 04/25/2003 8:20:05 AM PDT by demosthenes the elder (If *I* can afford $5/month to support FR: SO CAN YOU)
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To: Destro
Also on the page: "April 15, 2003: Coalition aircraft bombed the bases of The People's Mujahadeen, an Iranian opposition movement based in Iraq. Comprised mostly of secular Iranians who opposed, first the Shah, and then the Islamic revolution in Iran, they regularly stage raids into Iran. But in 1991 they also helped Saddam suppress rebellions by Kurds and Shias. They are thought to have 10-15,000 armed men and women in several camps along the Iranian border. It was thought that some of the camps were bombed as early as April 4th or 5th. Reporters visiting the camps have found them recently evacuated. Coalition forces report that they have been negotiating with the leaders of the People's Mujahadeen. If members of the People's Mujahadeen were sent back to Iran, many would be imprisoned and executed. Because of that danger, most People's Mujahadeen members have apparently fled the camps and are attempting to get out of Iraq."

I think we can productively use the MEK's 10-15K armed men and women in Iran. True, they aided Hussein against the Shia uprisings in 1991, but I think they were doing it for different reasons than Hussein-- Hussein feared that he would be toppled and the MEKs feared that Iraq would become a total theocratic state like the one Ayatollah Ali Hoseini-Khamenei wants in Iran-- making it considerably less likely that Iran would ever throw off its theocracy. We in the US felt the same fear as the MEK about those uprisings. We wanted a kinder, gentler military dictator to replace Saddam in 1991. I'd be willing to give them a blank slate if they decided to be a true ally against Iran and our other enemies. How about the rest of you here at FR?
14 posted on 04/25/2003 8:22:32 AM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (Putting government in charge of morality is like putting pedophiles in charge of children.)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: kellynla
When they passed out the brass balls these guys must have been first in line.

Either that or they were out bombing innocent children and missed the handout completely.

16 posted on 04/25/2003 8:25:06 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (All generalizations are false.)
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To: seamole
The Koran
= Old Testament
- The Jews
+ New Testament
- The point of the New Testament
+ Mohammed's 20,000 amendments for global domination
+ Mullahs' "interpretations" about how Mullahs are great
17 posted on 04/25/2003 8:25:26 AM PDT by pgyanke (For evil to succeed, good men must do nothing.)
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To: pgyanke
Some very important observation there, friend.
18 posted on 04/25/2003 8:30:28 AM PDT by Paul_B
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To: Karl B; marron
When has the USA never given circumstancial support to mujahadeen at first? We were probably (and maybe still are) the most mujahadeen freindly Western nation.
19 posted on 04/25/2003 8:35:03 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: pgyanke
Allah is not the God of Abraham.
20 posted on 04/25/2003 8:35:45 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Karl B
People's Mujahadeen : let's hope it's just a circumstancial support, because they are damned commie terrorists.

The Islamic extremism of the past is now viewed with great hostility, but in the 1980s U.S. policy strongly supported such extremism. There is scarcely any recognition that a little more than a decade ago, the U.S. press waxed eloquent about the Afghan "freedom fighters" that included bin Laden. Mujahiddin-- Freedom fighter-- commie terrorist-- American lackey. It all depends on the time and perspective. Circumstancial support it is indeed.

21 posted on 04/25/2003 8:44:36 AM PDT by Lysander (My army can kill your army)
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To: kellynla
What is wrong with these people? Can't they carry out their own trash.

No, they can't. They never had a Second Ammendment, let alone have one and let it lapse. "These people" are all individuals, and if you can't defend individuals, you can't defend "people."

Acting as a group can only happen when individuals can stay alive long enough to see common cause with other individuals.

22 posted on 04/25/2003 8:46:19 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Allah is not the God of Abraham.

A good point... however, that's why I said the Koran includes the Old Testament minus the Jews and the New Testament minus the point of the New Testament.

23 posted on 04/25/2003 8:47:39 AM PDT by pgyanke (For evil to succeed, good men must do nothing.)
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To: Destro
The despotic theocracy in Iran can't last. The younger generation with access to the Internet and satelite TV is not content to live a 13th century Islamic lifestyle without any basic freedoms. With a continued US presence in neighboring Iraq effectively blocking any interferrence by other fundamentalist Islamic countries, I see a popular uprising to overthrow the mullahs as just being a matter of time.
24 posted on 04/25/2003 8:51:12 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: Destro
Messiah, No. But it is alright to call W. The Ayatollah of RockanRolla.
25 posted on 04/25/2003 8:54:32 AM PDT by oyez (Is this a great country or what?)
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To: Destro
Twenty-first century "Domino Effect" in progress?
26 posted on 04/25/2003 8:55:19 AM PDT by Spruce
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To: Lysander
A decade ago? How about as recently as a few yesterdays ago? Bosnia-Kosovo and to a lesser extent-the Chechens and many Central Asian muji movements?
27 posted on 04/25/2003 8:56:18 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Spruce
Twenty-first century "Domino Effect" in progress?

Ypu should hope not--since the 20th century version failed to materialize.

28 posted on 04/25/2003 8:57:32 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
The U.S. should everything possible to overturn the brutal, repressive Islamic Theocracy in Iran.

It is as much of a threat to world stability as was Saddam, they are working on a nuclear bomb, we have forces on both sides of their borders, we have an active military opposition force eager to overthrown them, and their is far more spontaneous support for their overthrown domestically than ever existed in Iraq.

This calls for the kind of careful diplomacy with the Iranian moderates which Powell and the pusillanimous U.S. State Department are totally incapable of - subtle aggressive action and subtle, aggressive and consipratorial thinking.
29 posted on 04/25/2003 9:00:25 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: Lysander
The Islamic extremism of the past is now viewed with great hostility, but in the 1980s U.S. policy strongly supported such extremism. There is scarcely any recognition that a little more than a decade ago, the U.S. press waxed eloquent about the Afghan "freedom fighters" that included bin Laden.

What a load.

There's a big difference between supporting someone you assume will be grateful for assistance in achieving self determination, and blythely throwing lethal toys at someone who approves biting the hand that feeds it because that hand is different.

While the first case may be ignorant, it is at least noble in that it assumes the best of other cultures. The second is a leftist's bigoted wet dream.

30 posted on 04/25/2003 9:00:34 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: papertyger
There are millions of people over thousands of years of history who ridded themselves of tyrants without a second amendment(present country included). Maybe it's about time people learned to clean out their own house because this Marine like many is tired of leaving blood, limb and life on somebody else's yard just to be spit on later by ingrates.
31 posted on 04/25/2003 9:03:29 AM PDT by kellynla ( "C" 1/5 1st Mar Div '69 & '70 An Hoa, Viet Nam Semper Fi)
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To: papertyger; Lysander
Lysander is absolutely correct. Did you forget Bosnia? Kosovo? Chechnya? The Central Asian movements? The Taliban via Pakistan?

Like I said in my #19 reply to #15 "When has the USA never given circumstancial support to mujahadeen at first? We were probably (and maybe still are) the most mujahadeen freindly Western nation."

32 posted on 04/25/2003 9:05:34 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorisim by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro
In Iran, young people are calling American president Bush "the messiah" .....

Someone just scared the crap out of the muslim clergy in that country.

33 posted on 04/25/2003 9:06:01 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: papertyger
There's a big difference between supporting someone you assume will be grateful for assistance in achieving self determination, and blythely throwing lethal toys at someone who approves biting the hand that feeds it because that hand is different.

It had nothing to do with gratitude. It was Jummy Dummy and Raygun fighting the cold war by opposing anything the Russians did. We often support those who turn on us. Do I need to list them? Our foreign policy has never been based in altruism, but immediate convienience.

34 posted on 04/25/2003 9:20:56 AM PDT by Lysander (My army can kill your army)
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To: papertyger
BTW it has been learned that it was the Iranians who were responsible for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983. And to this day, I haven't seen anyone from Iran come forward with the guilty parties. Yet they want us to come "liberate" them too. Maybe you have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead but I don't. Let the Iranians carry out their own trash! We've left enough blood already on the sands of the Middle East.
35 posted on 04/25/2003 9:21:06 AM PDT by kellynla ( "C" 1/5 1st Mar Div '69 & '70 An Hoa, Viet Nam Semper Fi)
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To: seamole
You are right. The Koran is a bastardized version of the OT, and the NT. For example, let us say Mo was found stealing money from Ahmed, then his commandment would say do not steel, except if you were Mo and you are stealing from Ahmed. In another occasion, if was stealing from Ali, he would add another commandment "Except if you are Mo and stealing from Ali"
36 posted on 04/25/2003 9:32:19 AM PDT by philosofy123
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Allah is not the God of Abraham.

Be that as it may, they think He is one and the same.

37 posted on 04/25/2003 9:55:30 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Lysander
There is scarcely any recognition that a little more than a decade ago, the U.S. press waxed eloquent about the Afghan "freedom fighters" that included bin Laden

Bin Laden was a bit player. Many, but not all, members of the so called "Northern Alliance" were also "muj", supported by the US. It's not clear that OBL got any support from the US, and he certainly didn't need it, having plenty of his daddy's money to fiance his own group.

38 posted on 04/25/2003 9:58:02 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: kellynla
There are millions of people over thousands of years of history who ridded themselves of tyrants without a second amendment(present country included).

How many of those people over thousands of years possessed the technology to take out a crowd of hundreds with a single soldier on foot?

39 posted on 04/25/2003 10:09:38 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: kellynla
There are millions of people over thousands of years of history who ridded themselves of tyrants without a second amendment(present country included

Actually there was an equivalent to the second amendment, a weaker version to be sure, in the English "Bill of Rights".

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence, suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law".
Enacted in 1658 and still in force as of 1775.

It was because the King was denying the American colonists this and other "rights of Englishmen", that the Revolution occurred.

40 posted on 04/25/2003 10:09:48 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Destro
Are you suggesting we treat moslems as one monolithic block? There's alot of real estate between the places you are talking about, as well as another common thread besides Islam: radical Islamic operatives.
41 posted on 04/25/2003 10:12:26 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: Centurion2000
Bush "the messiah"

Y'know, a war of liberation is a kind of jihad....

YeeeeeeHaaaaa!

42 posted on 04/25/2003 10:13:56 AM PDT by no-s
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To: Lysander
It had nothing to do with gratitude. It was Jummy Dummy and Raygun fighting the cold war by opposing anything the Russians did. We often support those who turn on us. Do I need to list them? Our foreign policy has never been based in altruism, but immediate convienience.

And your alternative to a full scale nuclear strike would have been....? It's easy to criticize. What's your alternative?

Nobody said anything about altruism, but it's not unreasonable to assume those you aided would be favorably disposed toward you.

43 posted on 04/25/2003 10:18:35 AM PDT by papertyger
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To: kellynla
BTW it has been learned that it was the Iranians who were responsible for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983. And to this day, I haven't seen anyone from Iran come forward with the guilty parties. Yet they want us to come "liberate" them too.

Most of the ones who want us to liberate them now were in diapers in 1983.

44 posted on 04/25/2003 10:20:47 AM PDT by papertyger
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: Destro
IRAN: God Wills It, But The People Don't Want It

My advice - Try Jesus

46 posted on 04/25/2003 10:27:42 AM PDT by pbear8 ( sed libera nos a malo)
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To: demosthenes the elder
ex-boyfriend was from Iran and was very proud of being Persian. He'd flip out if anyone made the mistake of calling Iranians arabs.
47 posted on 04/25/2003 10:38:56 AM PDT by jazzyjen97
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To: papertyger
soooo? I was in diapers in 1948...didn't stop me from fighting for freedom and getting my ass shot off in 1968. And those who bombed the Marine barracks are still running free and the ones who were in diapers in 1983 I trust are out of diapers by now and can deliver to us those responsible for the bombing in 1983 and can fight for their own liberation...let me know when you catch up.
48 posted on 04/25/2003 10:39:22 AM PDT by kellynla ( "C" 1/5 1st Mar Div '69 & '70 An Hoa, Viet Nam Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
Why are you mixing Iran's government in with the people? Two totally different things.

Iran has a very pro-American youth which is 70 percent of the population.

Keep up!
49 posted on 04/25/2003 10:40:39 AM PDT by jazzyjen97
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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