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Hidden Women.. [Turkish Editorial]
Hurriyet ^ | 4/25/2003 | Bekir COŞKUN

Posted on 04/25/2003 11:10:30 AM PDT by a_Turk

The fundamentalists have denied women.

Women have been assumed not to exist in law, social life, in business.

While counting two women's witness equal to one man's, they've made women second class.

They bought and sold her like a commodity.

There's not one woman in any assembly outside the closed family unit.

They wouldn't even let them enter places of worship.

And even when they finally had to leave this world they love, women do not take their place at the final ceremonies held in mosque courtyards..


From northern Africa to Afghanistan, from the Sudan to Azerbaidjan, without exception, this is the reason for the lands of Islam being so poor, backward, and oppressed.

Any country where you ignore fifty percent of the population, any country where you reduce the workforce by fifty percent and force them to be consumers only..

Any country where you exclude those creative, loving, peaceful women from political office and force them to remain at home..

That country will be bankrupt..

Just like the muslim countries from northern Africa to Afghanistan, from the Sudan to Azerbaidjan.


And Turkey?

Because it is home to women a bit more free, a bit more respected, a bit more vocal, Turkey is a bit less bankrupt in comparison.

That is why the headscarf discussion is important.

Outside of the shows by the speaker of Parliament, the ruling party wives are home, quiet, and almost non-existent.

That's what bothers me..

Hidden women whose silhouettes can occasionally be seen in the media, who are seated in the back rows at celebrations, who are horrified of the media, who don't know what to do, who are forbidden to speak..

Sure they deserve respect.

They are each mothers..

Home makers, who weep during hard times, who cannot show their happiness during good days, intimidated..

And to top it off, prisoners of an ideology which is criticized and blamed by at least seventy five percent of the population..

Women who can't just say: "If it's a problem, I'll remove my turban.."

That's what bothers me..

Women who exist, but almost don't.

TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: freedom; fundamentalism; headscarf; islam; islamists; turkey
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To: SeattleTiger
I guess you didn't read the WHOLE remark....and, goodness isn't always NICE. Thanks for sharing your feelings and thoughts, though.
21 posted on 04/25/2003 6:33:52 PM PDT by goodnesswins (THANK a service member for your FREEDOM, and thank a business owner for your job.)
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Unexpected country?

Women won full electoral rights in 1934.

The world's first female combat pilot was Sabiha Gokcen in 1934.

The first female combat jet pilot in NATO (including the USA) was Leman Bozkurt Altincekic (1958).

There were 17 women in the Turkish parliament in 1935.

I could go on ...

22 posted on 04/25/2003 6:43:33 PM PDT by Turk2 (Dulce bellum inexpertis)
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To: a_Turk
Fascinating. You do have a lot of knowledge about history and anthropology. You set me straight on the origins of the Slavs if I remember correctly. I was impressed.

Now, I want to mention two things today, one of which pertains to females in Turkey and one of which does not. The second point pertains to incursions on the Northern border of Iraq.

First things first... I am just going to say what I read from memory and not search for the correct facts on the internet to give me a false aura of knowing what the heck is going on in Asia Minor. Here goes...

I read in the Wall Street Journal something about the Military boycotting a recent National holiday because they feared the wife of Prime Minister Erdogan would wear a veil, and since it is illegal, they did not want to be a part of the ceremonies. I am ignorant of what the celebration was about. I apoligize for my ignorance.

Ok, on to number two... Turkish Special Forces agents were intercepted trying to get to Kirkuk. They were in civilian clothes and following a supply train into the city. The US Army thinks that they were attempting to spread unrest through the ethnic Turkish population. This troubles me.

I know I might not have my facts straight as I just posted this returning from a long day at work and have not checked my sources and facts. I will add that my second point is true even if I messed up the details. A Turkish Specops team DID get detained on the Northern Iraq border. It does not surprise me but the US is reforming on the Reagan idealogy of superior Intel with a superior Military. I don't think it is wise for Turkey to be making these gestures.

I know about the Kurds and I understand the situation and it would surprise me if Turkey had NOT done this. Nevertheless, in the long run, it would be wise not to interfere with the US in Iraq.

23 posted on 04/25/2003 6:59:41 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: a_Turk
Kind of a dumb article. Politicians often prefer quiet decorous trophy wives.

It doesn't seem to me that the political wives are in any way representative of Turkish society so these pol molls are just in their own little cultural backwater, probably not too miserable and perhaps even rather content.

As far as Islam and its effects on treatment of women in other Islamic countries, I think that is intrisic to the system. However, female participation in all facets of life do not necessarily constitute whether a country is backward and repressive. Many of the accusations legimately levelled at the vast majority of backward Muslim countries have more to do with history and economics and the lack of permanent workable political states. In other words, Islam is a prime example of a barracks religion suitable to be imposed upon weaker populations who are to be conquered by Muslim aggressors. And this Islamic worldview does not seem to mesh well with the vision of the modern nation-state but is either tribal or, as was the case with the Ottomen, an empire-builder. It has none of the inherent egalitarianism of Christianity (something Judaism lacked historically as well). It is the nature of Islam to be repressive and aggressive toward other Muslim nations but especially toward infidel nations.

Islam is largely to blame for holding many of these cultures and nations in a backward state. But Islam didn't necessarily cause this repression. It merely cemented it into the social fabric. And the role of women in society is not necessarily the decisive factor in social progress and greater prosperity.

You know, in the end, the reason the EU doesn't want Turkey in the EU very much is because of the Islam factor. It's not the economy or the birthrate or the language. It's the fear of a huge Islamic population descending on Europe without restriction and with the legal rights of Europeans. But they'll let Turkey in eventually.
24 posted on 04/25/2003 7:12:16 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: a_Turk
There is a breeze forming . . .
25 posted on 04/25/2003 7:15:49 PM PDT by Scenic Sounds
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To: a_Turk
The dominant sex very early on was the female. Thus: mother earth..

There is no credible evidence for this, contrary to what the feminists and Leftist mystic New Age rant. Men always dominate their societies.
26 posted on 04/25/2003 7:16:24 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: a_Turk; sparky samson; goodnesswins

A refugee woman. After the Turks systematically killed the Christian men the women and children became easy targets

27 posted on 04/25/2003 7:19:21 PM PDT by eleni121
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To: Arioch7
I'll try to answer your questions as best I can. #2 will have some speculation..

on #1) The first Grand National Assembly of the Republic of Turkey was convened on April 23rd, 1920. Ataturk, the founding father of the Republic of Turkey dedicated this day to the children, as they are our future.

The ruling party has succeeded in pissing off the other branches of government as well as the military with, what turns out to my deep disappointment, their subtle baby steps to islamicize the republic through changes in education, the constitution, foreign policy, etc, etc, etc. Also, they keep parading their oppressed wives around in their turbans.. The other branches of government and the military have started to boycott them. The National Security Council meeting at the end of this month will probably serve the ruling party a discrete ultimatum..

On #2) To think that Turkey would send a measely 12 secial ops guys into Kirkuk with a measely trunkful of weaponry to start some shit s ludicrous. But there are Turkish special forces teams in that city, at the invitation of the US, to observe and verify that the US is keeping its promises regarding the status of the city, and the safety of the people there.

The city is a mess, with the three groups marking their abodes with colors, getting ready for who knows what. If I were a Turkish observer in Kirkuk, I'd want to be armed. Because the shit is going to hit the fan when the PUK and the KDP get brazen enough.. So in fact, a trunk full of weapons would help one defend oneself, should that day come.

As Saddam's army has deserted and their weapons are just strewn about the place being "collected" by the Kurdish troops, there's no need for Turkey to try to smuggle weapons into a place which is already full of them. If the Turkmen want weapons, and believe you me, they have them jsut like the Kurds do, all they have to do is pick them up!

If the story is true, and I am not sure it is since it was reported by Time and affiliates alone, then it is clearly a move by the US to disarm the Turkish observers in Kirkuk, probably in order to convince them to leave..
28 posted on 04/25/2003 7:25:33 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: a_Turk
Thanks - an excellent article. The headscarf *is* highly political; too bad more Americans don't realize that it's not just a "choice" issue.
30 posted on 04/25/2003 7:39:49 PM PDT by valkyrieanne
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To: George W. Bush
>> Men always dominate their societies.

Now they do, but they did not years ago.. Where fertility was the subject of awe and men did not realize their part (other than fun), men were in awe of the female and her ability to give birth..

Anyway, I did not post a rant, you did.
31 posted on 04/25/2003 7:40:55 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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To: sparky samson
>> hasn't france opened the door already?

Don't think so.

Anyway, my ancestors didn't fight and die for our republic just so it can now be handed over to the EU. I'm opposed.
32 posted on 04/25/2003 7:46:34 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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To: goodnesswins
Or...women voters? (I didn't really say that, did I?.....I don't mean it....I just want thinking women to VOTE, not feeling women.)>

Just what part did I misrepresent or fail to read?

33 posted on 04/25/2003 8:01:44 PM PDT by SeattleTiger
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To: eleni121; sparky samson; goodnesswins
Greece claims that between 1916-1923 the Greek Orthodox population then living in the eastern Black Sea region of Turkey became the victim of a systematic policy of extermination by the Turkish authorities of the day and that those who were able to escape did so by taking refuge in Greece. On 24 February 1994, the Greek Parliament adopted "19 May" as a "Day for Commemorating the Turkish genocide against the Pontus Greeks". But history and the facts are at odds with Greek claims and point unmistakably in another direction.

If you look, you'll find similar accounts from UK, US, German, etc. sources. Search for Turkey Greece population exchange.
34 posted on 04/25/2003 8:02:38 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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To: SeattleTiger
ROFLMAO! I read it a couple of times too!! Can't wait for the answer..
35 posted on 04/25/2003 8:04:24 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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To: valkyrieanne
It's hard to realize things that are so far removed from your own culture.

Many Arabs, for example, think that American and western women are whores.. Then when they get there, they treat these women according to their misperceptions.
36 posted on 04/25/2003 8:07:51 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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To: a_Turk; sparky samson; goodnesswins
Consul-General George Horton, American Legation, Athens, Greece,
My dear Mr. Horton:
How true Gladstone’s famous statement was in regard to the Turk’s character has been most amply proved in the late Smyrna disaster.
My position as a woman physician makes me peculiarly well placed to know about the treatment of young girls by the Turks. In my four-year experience in Turkey I think it is a rather remarkable fact that I have yet to see the Turkish girl or woman who has been ravished. As a marked contrast to this I have seen hundreds of Christian girls who have been in the hands of Turkish men.

The point of al this is that Turks possessed of their barbarous natures, are no friend of America's. Our President has wisely shoved them off to the wayside...

37 posted on 04/25/2003 8:11:34 PM PDT by eleni121
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To: a_Turk
Gladstone spoke of the Turks after one of their many pogroms against Christians in the Balkans:

"If it remains savage and barbarous, and behaves contemptuously and repulsively towards the public opinion of Europe, then it is unworthy of European protection and good-will."

His words are as right then as they are now. now.

38 posted on 04/25/2003 8:14:26 PM PDT by eleni121
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To: eleni121
Whatever.. You are a bore.
39 posted on 04/25/2003 8:21:50 PM PDT by a_Turk (Lookout, lookout, the candy man..)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

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