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Assault Weapons Ban : not any more - its way worse.
NRA ^

Posted on 05/12/2003 4:56:44 PM PDT by OOPisforLiberals

All you anti-AWB people : listen closely. The "extended" assault weapons ban would ban TONS of guns, including ALL semi-automatic shotguns, ALL shotguns that hold < 5 rounds, M1 Garand, Mini-14, ALL semi-autos that can have > 10 rounds with or without fixed magazine.

Gives the attorney general the ability to declare a gun "not sporting" and subsequently ban it.

That's right folks, its the big one. They want 'em all. -Still- feel playing complacent about them not taking away your guns? If this goes through, handguns are toast in <= 5 years. 30 caliber rifles next. Then, there's not much left.

Its bad.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultweaponban; awb; bang; banglist; nra
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To: Travis McGee
"Not surprisingly, many of the motivated resistors in my novel are from the WW2 to VN era."

I'm a Vietnam vet, and I hate to think the only patriots who will fignt for their freedoms ended with my generation. Surely there are some younger folks out there who love freedom and hate tyranny as much as I.
201 posted on 05/13/2003 6:43:04 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: ought-six
If this bill is as bad as it seems and it is passed, I'll vote for the Evil, not as surrender, but to bring it on. First thing the Beast will do is try to enforce it.

We'll all have to resist or accept slavery right then. No more incrementalism.

Better not to have granchildren than to let them inherit such evil.
202 posted on 05/13/2003 6:43:24 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Centurion2000
If that's the case you might as well go whole hog with a sawed off shotgun and fully automatic rifles. Why take 10 years for some sissy accessory when you can make machine guns ?

Exactly. The gun banners have no idea of the juggernaut they would release if all "normal" guns are banned. Take a look at the third world; where no one has any problem getting full auto AK's, RPG's, explosives etc. If possessing any reasonable gun carries the same penalty, why wouldn't gangsters and thugs stock up on the big stuff? These VPC types really have no capacity for thought.

203 posted on 05/13/2003 6:56:44 AM PDT by Sender
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To: Blood of Tyrants
No need to worry. The NRA will step in and negotiate it down to a permanent AW and .50 BMG ban with a national bullet ballistics database thrown in.

Yep. I suspect that's about the size of it.

204 posted on 05/13/2003 6:58:06 AM PDT by Jefferson Adams
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To: Sandy; griffin
Yep, that's a home made boat.

And I only sport chin whiskers when sailing long distances. Normally I have a mustache only.

205 posted on 05/13/2003 7:18:16 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ought-six; Jeff Head
Well in my book the ages of the folks in the final attack scene are late 50s (2), thirties (2), 21, and the guy driving the getaway boat is in his 90s. (It's his boat. WW2 PT boat veteran with his crab boat.) Of course, I'm just making all this up.

But I think that generation by generation our gubbmint skools are turning our youth against freedom, guns, and the ideals of America, and turning them to socialism and world government.

So if we don't have some defining historical event to change the tide, freedom in America will simply go extinct in the next half century.

206 posted on 05/13/2003 7:23:58 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Cloud William
"... Time for another FReeper postal match, perhaps?

Yes, but I have reservations about the .22 requirement since I haven't got one.

207 posted on 05/13/2003 7:26:13 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: ought-six
Here it is, and it's even worse that what is said here. Look at the AttGeneral provision in it
208 posted on 05/13/2003 7:27:17 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan ("You are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute." - Demolition Man)
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To: The KG9 Kid
"fellow elected Republicans who are in Washington DC should start looking for a new job."

...And a bulletproof vest...

209 posted on 05/13/2003 7:31:40 AM PDT by Andonius_99
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To: Travis McGee
"When...put the wood stock back on, the muzzle velocity dropped..."

We all know that's not true, it's just that the "dangerous" folding/pistol grip stock causes you to be a criminal. Stop being silly. ;>(
210 posted on 05/13/2003 7:50:25 AM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (If he's a cowboy, then I like cowboys)
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To: GunRunner
W is counting on the good sense of the current Congress to stifle this one. It is a purely political move on his part and if it succeeds in that the bill is defeated then the political gain is large. However, if Congress actually passes this thing, he will probably sign it because W does tend to do as he says. It is up to us to flood our Congressmen's offices with mail, email, phonecalls, to make sure this does not go to the president to sign.
211 posted on 05/13/2003 7:52:47 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: supercat
"Reduced by 10%?"

Yep. App. 10% of computer folks are out of work.
212 posted on 05/13/2003 7:57:42 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (to hell with the spyplane - AC130 gunship)
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To: in the Arena
The more loaded down this bill gets with this stuff the less likely it is to pass and the more likely a successful SC challenge to it. If our guys in Congress are trying to stop all the weird ammendments they are trying to make the bill more able to pass. I think it should be loaded up with everything Feinstein can think of. That will make it much less likely to pass on its own and will fire up the troops to innundate their reps' offices with opposition. I would rather beat this thing to death loudly and memorably than just let it evanesce.
213 posted on 05/13/2003 8:00:06 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: JMack
I've been watching it. Seomthing tells me that the USSC won't hear this one. They have a history of not wanting to hear true Constitutional issues. I think they are afraid of setting of a course of history no one really wants, such as a second civil war. Tell Americans that they don't have the right to firearms and the commies will come out in force and ban them straight up, and the shooting starts.
214 posted on 05/13/2003 8:02:22 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (to hell with the spyplane - AC130 gunship)
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To: Pylot
Bush signalled to the Dimocrats that he would sign a renewal of the AWB. The right Dims bit.

That sounds like the Bush I know. One forgets sometimes as these things seem to roll forward. I have said it, myself, that the Crats think they are gaining something, that they have W by the throat and just as they are about to move for the kill they realize that they have only a handful of their own shirt and there is no ground under them or the thing they have won is very different from what they fought for and thought they were getting. Thank you for reminding me.

215 posted on 05/13/2003 8:08:45 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: Blue Collar Christian; Travis McGee; JeffersonDavis; griffin; MileHi; knarf; Noumenon; ...
Yep, with that folding pistol grip stock you can conceal it in a match box in your pocket ... that's what makes it so dangerous.

And those hideous flash suppressor, they add a coat of teflon to each bullet as they pass through to help penetrate flack jackets.

And the high-cap mags allow follow-on bullets to fly further and further, more accurately as they push one another along. Those things increase the range and accuracy by at least 10,000%.

Boy, it's a good thing we have these elected officials watching out for our security and making us so much safer.

[/dripping sarcasm]

Jeff

BTW, for those following it, Fred's M-14 Stocks has a special offer going on my series ... HERE

216 posted on 05/13/2003 8:11:04 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Travis McGee
But I think that generation by generation our gubbmint skools are turning our youth against freedom, guns, and the ideals of America, and turning them to socialism and world government.

That's precisely what is happening. Incrementally, slowly, but surely...Forth of July, fireworks bad, very dangerous, guns bad, men bad, boys bad, America bad...

217 posted on 05/13/2003 8:11:13 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: xbar
And I go with Paul on that one. That is for the states to do.And those states that do it will gain manufacturers and jobs.
218 posted on 05/13/2003 8:14:27 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: OOPisforLiberals
"If anyone has a convincing argument to the contrary(that is, how in 20, 30, or 40 years, my 1911, Colt Python and 2 bolt action rifles will still be legal for me to own)I would sure love to hear it."

Freedom is very expensive, and takes risks to preserve. If snipings of gun grabbers started and were copycatted across the nation, the investigations would be untracible as to an organized coup, and very discouraging to the leaders that would head up the collective effort. However, if one or more snipers were caught and convicted, they may face the death penalty. That's what you call "laying down one's life for his friends", FRiends.
219 posted on 05/13/2003 8:16:30 AM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (If he's a cowboy, then I like cowboys)
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To: Travis McGee
"So if we don't have some defining historical event to change the tide, freedom in America will simply go extinct in the next half century"

I think that defining moment will come when we forbid all government employees, officials, politicians, including the alphabet soups to carry weapons while on duty. Time to re-write their contract with us. They have proven themselves to be un-responsible and incapable of handling the authority that comes with their job description. Yes, it's time to change the job descriptions.

220 posted on 05/13/2003 8:21:12 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Ajnin
What makes think LEO Freepers are going to try take your weapons?

Those arn't the ones I'm worried about. The ones that were at Waco and Ruby Ridge are those who are worrisome.

221 posted on 05/13/2003 8:27:24 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Per caritate viduaribus orphanibusque sed prime viduaribus)
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To: superloser
I left Kalifornia to get away from this garbage

You should have stayed and fought this along side of us who stayed to take OUR state back from the commies

222 posted on 05/13/2003 8:28:45 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Per caritate viduaribus orphanibusque sed prime viduaribus)
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To: The KG9 Kid
I won't vote for anyone signing onto anti-RKBA legislation. Millions of gun owners agree. The GOP really needs to contemplate this.

What's the alternative ???

BTW Grand Council in Sonora this week ... I'll be there starting Thursday

223 posted on 05/13/2003 8:34:17 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Per caritate viduaribus orphanibusque sed prime viduaribus)
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To: supercat
Reduced by 10%?

Ask the Romans who fought and lost to Spartacus

224 posted on 05/13/2003 8:35:49 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Per caritate viduaribus orphanibusque sed prime viduaribus)
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To: griffin
In the ultimate struggle that might occur if this would ever come to pass...even old geezers like Templar, Jeff and Travis could be useful! ;)

Citizens with significant military experience are a serious impediment to the ambitions of many in our government. And thank God for that.

There's also that saying about "Old age and treachery" that applies here... ;-D

225 posted on 05/13/2003 8:44:24 AM PDT by Charles Martel
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To: ought-six
"If, in the wisdom of our leaders, this Bill is extended, everyone should vote for hillary and let's get this gun confiscation thing over with as quickly as possible. We should set the example and be the first member-nation of the UN to completely unload."

""So, you will just surrender. That's too bad. As for me, I subscribe to that classic line of John Wayne's character Ethan Edwards in "The Searchers": "Surrender? Nope, I don't believe in surrenders. And I didn't turn my saber into no plowshare, either.""

Who said anything about surrendering??? I said 'let's get this gun confiscation thing over as quickly as possible.' I didn't mean OUR guns, I'm talking about THEIR guns. Time to re-write their job descriptions. The UN would be over-joyed to be able to deal with a government that is not armed to the teeth at the treaty table. Let's not ever forget that our government works for a well-armed populace -- a message that won't be lost on some dinky fraudulent corporation attempting to eradicate the sovereignty of nations and peoples.

226 posted on 05/13/2003 9:04:57 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: clamper1797
"... What's the alternative ???"

Not rewarding them for poking us in the eye under the guise that the other party will just give it away faster is the only alternative.

I'll just stay home on election night.

Send Freepmail about Grand Council. I've got a humbug from #1069 that owes me beer.

227 posted on 05/13/2003 9:45:44 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Dan from Michigan
Good God! I just read the whole thing. If this thing passes, 75 million American citizens will discover they are felons when they wake up in the morning. Are the pols so stupid as to pass this? Do they think that all the people are the sheep they assume? This is the most terrifying thing I've ever seen. Looks like Thomas Jefferson's words about the blood of patriots and tyrants may just come to pass. Let's hope to God it never comes to that.
228 posted on 05/13/2003 10:06:12 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: ought-six
Well as a former light infantryman in his early twentys I can tell you with confidence that there are plenty of wet nosed cherries who would be on the firing line. Lots of new soldiers tell the same old lie about joining for the college money but you can see the tear start to form when the flag goes up.
Thats the one dissagreement I have with Travis's book. The militazation of the police can be a good thing too. Usually the the LEOs who are so quick to trample somebody's rights are the ones who have worn blue but never green.
229 posted on 05/13/2003 10:20:38 AM PDT by Orwellian
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To: jwh_Denver
This issue is not high on the average American's priorities. There is only a few Commies/Libs that it is.

The problem is those few commies have a powerful ally in the mainstream press; those bastards will hammer this issue for the next 18 months; they will ferret out every little rotten piece of crap story about how some malcontent misused a gun and they will trumpet these events as evidence that we need more stupid gun control. Yes, I am in the process of writing to the dishonorable jerk-offs in Congress; my voting district, unfortunately, gives me absolutely no real representation as all are rotten, commie-RAT-bastards. We need to lean hard on key Republican House members to make sure that these bills do not get passed.

230 posted on 05/13/2003 11:54:50 AM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Travis McGee
You need to author a new book: "Enemies - Domestic" All it would need is the bio of all the democrats and many of the republicans in the House and Senate. I want to reserve a copy.
231 posted on 05/13/2003 12:02:05 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson
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To: Orwellian
I'm a fifty-something Air Force vet (Vietnam). I'm glad to hear there are some "young turks" out there who will stand beside us if the time comes; I kind of thought there were a few of you around after reading "Black Hawk Down" and watching the recent Iraq War on the news, etc. The Republic (the REAL Republic, not that abortion the leftists are trying to turn it into) needs you, and will welcome you to the good fight.
232 posted on 05/13/2003 1:02:06 PM PDT by ought-six
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To: OOPisforLiberals
Frankly, I don't see any way to avoid it at this point. The momentum is far too big. Indoctrination of kids, California and Illinois forging ahead with massive bans, and now this. The direction here is clear, and it seems truly unstoppable.

You're full of it. The democrats are falling all over themselves not to appear anti-gun, and the few whackjobs in safe districts are just using this as a whipping boy for their idiot voters.

These guys remember full well what happened in 1994 and aren't about to repeat it.

233 posted on 05/13/2003 1:11:25 PM PDT by hopespringseternal
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To: ought-six
If this thing passes, 75 million American citizens will discover they are felons when they wake up in the morning.

That's not correct. There is a grandfather provision.

[18 USC 922(v)(1)] shall not apply to any firearm...which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.

234 posted on 05/13/2003 3:06:24 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: Joe Hadenuf
The "Minuteman" was a very cool patriot and hero when we were growing up.

Now he is too evil to remain as the mascot of the U. Mass.

Shows where we're headed.

235 posted on 05/13/2003 3:39:05 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Eastbound
You're dreaming if you think the fedgov will ever let their agents be disarmed.

Peasants of course need to be disarmed, but not their servants and bodyguards.

236 posted on 05/13/2003 3:40:28 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Stonewall Jackson
Good point. We have more than enough purely domestic enemies of liberty.
237 posted on 05/13/2003 3:42:21 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: hopespringseternal
We are winning battles, but LONG term, the tide is stronly against us.

The kids of today who think the musket toting "Minuteman" is a white racist genocidal Indian killing maniac will be writing the laws in twenty years.

238 posted on 05/13/2003 3:44:48 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: 45Auto
We need to lean hard on key Republican House members to make sure that these bills do not get passed.

I agree. Who are the key members? And I would also suspect communications with the RNC might help too. I think this bill will not get passed because it goes way too far but that doesn't mean I won't do what I can to prevent from getting to the Oval Office. If Bush does sign it we're cooked. The last line of defense between a tyrannical government and its citizens are guns.
239 posted on 05/13/2003 4:28:25 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (Please donate to my favorite charity at jwh_Denver.com.)
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To: Jeff Head
I believe you may have hit on the sordid truth that will confront us over this.

No doubt here regarding the game plan. Why else would the House version be so much more egregious than the Senate version? Answer: Because the House is where the fight is.

240 posted on 05/13/2003 4:42:45 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: Travis McGee
I call it 'creative visualization.' ;)
241 posted on 05/13/2003 4:48:38 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: jwh_Denver
If Bush does sign it we're cooked. The last line of defense between a tyrannical government and its citizens are guns.

If Bush signs it, he's cooked. I've heard all the arguments from the solid repubo/Conservatives on this; they are not entirely wrong, but there are enough one-issue voters to make the difference between Repubos having a 20 year stretch as the majority or a generation of minority status. The latter turn of events would mean the end of the Republic and some very bad times ahead. Visualize President Hillary. That's enough to make me barf for 24 hours straight!

242 posted on 05/13/2003 5:07:39 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: Jeff Head
compromised back to just the AWB to show how the worthless politicians "saved the day".

Yep... onerous legislation always seems to get slipped in during a midnight conference session, when the reps have to vote on it the next day, and don't have time to read it.

BTW, I just finished your latest book.... I enjoyed it and it was good to see the tide turn towards the end... can't wait for the next 2 books. Keep up the good work.

243 posted on 05/13/2003 5:19:38 PM PDT by Mulder (Live Free or die)
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To: 45Auto
Visualize President Hillary. That's enough to make me barf for 24 hours straight!

That's exactly why I said "We're cooked".

You make a good point about 1 issue voters. At this point it's hard for me to believe that Bush would put himself into this position....unless he knows there is no way it's going to get passed. ??
244 posted on 05/13/2003 5:21:46 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (Please donate to my favorite charity at jwh_Denver.com.)
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To: Mulder
Thanks for those kind words about the books. I just released a 2nd Edition of Volume I that is updated for Operation Iraqi Freedom. Mainly for new readers because a couple of things I wrote about in 2000 (like the demise of Hussein and how Iraq is engulfed into the GIR) needed to flow with current history.

Please consider a review on Amazon for Volume III if you are so inclined and have the time.

As to the topic of this thread, I'm hoping against hope that the AWB is DOA, both as it was, and as to what these traitors to the constitution would like to see it be.

Jeff

245 posted on 05/13/2003 5:38:37 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Eastbound
They'll try to disarm us long before we try the reverse. They have the legal machinery, but we have 1000 times more guns.
246 posted on 05/13/2003 5:45:42 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Ajnin
Are you saying they would disobey orders?
That would be a change.
247 posted on 05/13/2003 5:59:25 PM PDT by Crusader21stCentury
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To: Travis McGee
Shows where we're headed.

Your so right, and it's so sad, to think were this country has headed in just the past 30 years.......Stunning....

248 posted on 05/13/2003 6:30:06 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Your so right, and it's so sad, to think *where* this country has headed in just the past 30 years.......Stunning....


249 posted on 05/13/2003 6:30:51 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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Comment #250 Removed by Moderator


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