Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Wolfowitz in Skopje What Next for Macedonia?
antiwar.com ^ | May 20, 2003 | Christopher Deliso

Posted on 05/20/2003 8:51:59 AM PDT by Destro

Wolfowitz in Skopje – What Next for Macedonia?

by Christopher Deliso

May 20, 2003

A total eclipse of the full moon on Friday morning, street warfare between Macedonians and Albanians in Tetovo on Friday night – could these portentous events have had anything to do with the next day's visit from US Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz?

Über-hawk Wolfowitz touched down briefly in Skopje on the third leg of his Balkan tour. At his first stop (Sarajevo) Wolfowitz oversaw the signing of a treaty guaranteeing that Bosnia will never extradite an American soldier to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for war crimes. At the second stop, Kosovo's Camp Bondsteel, Wolfowitz inspected the troops at this all but forgotten imperial outpost.

Wolfowitz's trip to Macedonia was decidedly low-key, and lasted only a few hours. Officially, he came for the photo op and speech praising the Iraq-bound Macedonian conscripts. However, the fact that he also met in private with former NLA boss Ali Ahmeti, President Boris Trajkovski, and later with Prime Minister Branko Crvenkovski and Defense Minister Vlade Buchkovski seems to indicate that Rumsfeld's right-hand man came to talk business.

Operation Evade Journalists

However, it is slightly unclear as to what that business was. Wolfowitz's entourage, which included US Ambassador Laurence Butler and the proverbial men in dark suits and sunglasses talking on mobile phones, were escorted briskly in and out of government buildings all morning, leaving little chance for interrogation. Although Wolfowitz answered two or three mundane questions in a mundane way when meeting with Trajkovski, no real explanation for his visit was given. And the US Embassy on Saturday claimed to have no one available who could speak on the matter.

Saturday's final photo op for Wolfowitz was the Macedonian Army's Ilinden barracks, a sprawling encampment situated on a high wooded bluff overlooking Skopje. Here Wolfowitz gave a short speech to the 39 Iraq-bound Macedonian soldiers. Among them are members of the Wolves (special forces), as well as army medics.

Flanked by officials, Wolfowitz stood opposite the neatly-arrayed Macedonian troops and thanked them for playing their part in the "liberation" of the Iraqi people from "…one of the worst dictators of modern history." He also alluded to the US-imposed Ohrid Agreement when praising the Macedonians for "settling issues by talking instead of by fighting." He then proceeded down the row, cordially shaking hands with each of the conscripts. Much snapping and flashing ensued from the thicket of cameras adjacent.

photo by Cvetin Cilimanov for Antiwar.com

(Excerpt) Read more at antiwar.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: albania; balkans; campaignfinance; macedonia; paulwolfowitz
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-272 next last
To: Hoplite
[In other words, he was basically trying to claim that the Serbs "ethnically cleansed" themselves of the region]

Wrong. You understand nothing.

So I misunderstood you? Well if the Serbs weren't the cause of their own ethnic cleansing, then who was?

151 posted on 06/12/2003 10:31:48 AM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 150 | View Replies]

To: inquest
If the Serbs who fled the Krajina hadn't left before the Croats got there, I see no reason they would not have been coerced into doing so by the Croats.

Compare and contrast:

Martic
42. From 1 August 1991 until 31 December 1995, Milan MARTIC, acting individually or in concert with other known and unknown members of a joint criminal enterprise, planned, instigated, ordered, committed, or otherwise aided and abetted the planning, preparation, or execution of the deportations or forcible transfers of the Croat, Muslim and other non-Serb civilian population from the SAO Krajina in Croatia and from Bosanski Novi, Bosanska Gradiska, Prnjavor and Sipovo in the ARK in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Gotovina
30. Between 5 August 1995 and 15 November 1995, Croatian forces committed numerous acts of killing, arson, looting, harassment, terror and threat of physical harm to person and property. By these acts, Croatian forces intimidated and coerced Krajina Serbs into leaving their villages, hamlets and homes. Ante GOTOVINA acting individually and/or in concert with others, including President Franjo Tudjman, planned, instigated, ordered, committed or otherwise aided and abetted in the planning, preparation or execution of the deportation and forced displacement of the Krajina Serb population.

If you read down into paragraph 43 of the Martic indictment, there really isn't too much to choose between other than the ethnicity of the victims and the time frame.

152 posted on 06/12/2003 11:06:05 AM PDT by Hoplite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 151 | View Replies]

To: Hoplite
And I repeat, I'm not here to defend the actions of Milosevic and his allies, but to point out the misguided nature of our own actions. And yes, supporting the Croats as they plowed through the Krajina was at best, highly misguided.
153 posted on 06/12/2003 11:42:51 AM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: inquest
How can you judge our actions when you are not knowledgeable of the environment in which they were made?
154 posted on 06/12/2003 12:57:20 PM PDT by Hoplite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: inquest; wonders
Hoplite: "You wanted to play stupid little reindeer games and didn't know that whereas the majority of Croatian refugees were driven out at gunpoint, the Serb refugees from Storm had a head start as their so called government threw in the towel and thus spared a great many the fate that befell about 400 of the few who chose to stay behind."

Wonders was a UN officer in Croatia during this, and her estimate, given on FR, was that the number was much greater than 400. She estimated, once on FR, that between 5,000 - 7,000 Serb civilians were killed in Operation Storm and the aftermath, much more than 400.

She witnessed the carnage and the aftermath. She was aware of the Croats' methods in disposing of Serb bodies and the hosing of blood off the streets. She believes that German soldiers helped there.

She also knew well of a Serb teen who was captured and imprisoned by the Croats. He lost his kidneys from the ordeal - from beatings and torture. Hoplite wasn't there to see the wreckage, the dead, nor did he meet the traumatised and injured victims.

155 posted on 06/12/2003 1:26:36 PM PDT by joan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: joan
All Hoplite knows is from the internet. Anything eyewitnessed is refuted by him as Serb propoganda.
156 posted on 06/12/2003 2:06:48 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: joan
The "official 400" is the count of the numbered graves of civilians killed during Op Storm in the official two graveyards created by HV on the hill above Dvor(some 211 -- I inspected it myself on several occasions) and on the Knin hillside (slightly more than 200). These were not graves of those "few who chose to stay behind," rather they are the graves of those killed during Op Storm.

Those who chose to stay behind were mainly elderly and/or handicapped and there were precious few of them. They were not buried in those graveyards. I have a pretty good idea of where their bodies went, more or less. (Buried on top of others in old graves in established Serbian cemeteries... so many freshly-dug graves in grave plots supposedly settled some twenty to fifty years ago, with tank tracks leading up to the graveyard and all those hygienic latex gloves lying about the freshly-turned earth! But the exhumation laws in Croatia are quite strict and something else, so no one knows for sure.

It was OBVIOUS, what they were doing --- burying the bodies on top of other bodies in old graves – but not at all provable and therefore not reportable (no, much to my shame, I simply could not report this). Pretty slick. Gotta hand it to those Wanna-Be-German Croats who did that. And to the “retired” American military advisors in Jarstrebarsko, those “gurus” who thought it a brilliant plan and thus endorsed that plan (what separates them from the SS, pray tell? And God rest their souls). Sick, depraved, even? Oh, yes. Effective? Yes, yes, yes! I couldn’t write it up in my reports because I couldn’t prove it. All I could do was take pictures of the latex gloves and the tracks and the graves… and who cares about the pictures with no proof??? My colleagues from other countries and other UN Components felt the same.

The Knin graveyard contains the bodies of those killed during the shelling of Knin, etc. The Dvor graveyard contains the bodies of those killed in the "Dvor Massacre" (conservative count of those actually killed in the "Dvor Massacre" is about 450 -- there were two UN Danish OPs there).

The "Dvor Massacre" was a massacre of civilians attempting to flee and cross the Dvor Bridge into BiH. These civilians were turned aside by HV into a certain area of Dvor, funneled directly into a "turkey shoot". Yes, I'm pretty sure where many of the bodies of the other 250+ were disposed of. Others were carried off in "dirt trucks" as we called them. These were trucks loaded with earth which were busily plying the roads in the Dvor area at the time, which HV justified as helping them with dug-in positions, trenches, etc. But the trucks were heading north, away from where such things might be constructed, HV never constructed such dug-in positions despite intensive UN observation, and... I and two other UN (one Brit, one Dutch, one Czech) saw the bloodied white blouse which looked as if it would have fit a girl of about four years old blow off one off one of these trucks. I have a photo of that little blouse where it landed beside the road. Looking at that photo still makes me cry. She was just an innocent little girl! Fat lot of good it does toward proving anything! So it went unreported, even though my colleagues from the Czech Republic, UK and Holland (yes, tears welled up in ALL our eyes, although I was the only female among us) —all of us knew what that little gauzy blouse blown off that truck meant.

To be fair and balance things out, just up the road, slightly to the north of Dvor, an HV unit diverted some fleeing refugees into an alternate road to the village of Pedalj to help them escape the cross-fire of HV and the Bosnian Muslim 5th Corps, (many, many were killed on that road because of this) and those HV acted most correctly and as befitted honourable military officers. These Croat officers saved many lives by this action, and they knew would do so at the time.

Pedalj was my "model village" in all of Sector North with people living there just fine. It was such a pleasure to visit there. I think (know) this is because of the pride and conscience of those Croat officers. These Croat officers, were, to a man, entirely decent young people who had a vision of a just world. My opinion is that these HV had been trained in the "Alpine Division" (very good moral reputation) but that's just my own opinion. (I also had occasion to admire the moral conviction of a Croat Alpine Division Officer in Topusko – this officer went to great lengths, and seemed to relish the opportunity to help me locate a languishing child who needed the “baby milk” I had to offer, or the medical assistance I could offer to a sick or injured person. All this might be my own prejudice, of course. Still, I think this particular young man was to be commended and truly believed in treating people as Jesus would want us to treat them and worked to do so, as I did. We sort of “recognized” each other in that sense.

She estimated, once on FR, that between 5,000 - 7,000 Serb civilians were killed in Operation Storm and the aftermath, much more than 400.

This includes Op Storm and its aftermath in former Sectors North and South (August 1995)and what I know of displaced families from former Sector West to former Sector North from Op Flash (Former Sector West, May 1995). It's a conservative estimate, several thousand below what is estimated by the "missing, never located" rosters.

She witnessed the carnage and the aftermath. She was aware of the Croats' methods in disposing of Serb bodies and the hosing of blood off the streets. She believes that German soldiers helped there.

Yes, I did and wish I hadn't. Actually, they didn't hose it off, they used German-made street-cleaning machines. No, I don't think German soldiers helped them. I do think German-made machines helped them. (I didn't mean this to sound harsh at all, joan, and it isn't meant that way at all! I know how it is on FR that you remember something, but might subsitute "soldier" for "machine" as in any case, Germany helped in one fashion or another. Truly, I do understand and I do think HV did this perhaps upon the advice of their American "advisors" in Jarstrebarsko and it certainly suited these particular Croats' wanna-be German psychology. I hope you understand my correction and don't take it as an argument or reproof. I want only to tell the truth (the idealistic UN Officer in me, sworn to always tell the truth) and feel compelled to clarify.)

She also knew well of a Serb teen who was captured and imprisoned by the Croats. He lost his kidneys from the ordeal - from beatings and torture. Hoplite wasn't there to see the wreckage, the dead, nor did he meet the traumatised and injured victims.

This boy was from Sector West, imprisoned by Croats in Pakrac, passing through Sector North on his way to relatives in BiH (his immediate family was killed in Sector West). I interviewed him and had UN doctors examine him in June of 1995. His left kidney was pretty much gone, his right damaged, but still functioning somewhat. The OSCE and ICRC reps who were stationed in Pakrac at the time informed me they were barred from seeing the prisoners (a gross human rights violation). The OSCE guys there tried really hard and put up a heroic protest, but in vain. I still pray for him.

157 posted on 06/12/2003 4:02:16 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: Hoplite
We tacitly (or perhaps more than tacitly) stood by Croatia as it undertook an action which the ICTY, which was created as part of our policy in the region, saw fit to indict people for. If there's something about the "environment" I'm missing, that would have justified our actions, I'd be most interested in hearing it.
158 posted on 06/12/2003 4:06:34 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 154 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Foo. I don't give a fig what any of you think or say. Here's what I have to say and what I learned. And I'll just say it.

I met both Croats and Serbs who were more Children of God than given over to the idiot transient ideology of their day, who put their lives on the line to help those of the "other" ethnicity. These people leave me in awe. They are all Saints of an order we smug and safe Americans can't fathom.

159 posted on 06/12/2003 4:20:00 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: inquest
It was more than "tacitly" -- I myself, via sat TV, watched Bill Clinton giving the "green light" to Op Storm on the evening of 3 August, 1995, even before the meeting in Vienna had concluded.

Then there was the more tangible evidence: the materiel and intelligence suppplied by the US to the Croats. Yup, we did it by proxy!

Ref "environment" never mind Hoppie. He thinks Serbs should be "punished" just for being Serbs. His premise is that Croats in 1995 were "justified" by what Serbs supposedly did in 1991. He doesn't take into account what Croats did to Serbs 1987-1991. Those three years simply don't count for him.

My own opinion is that what Serbs did to Croats because of what Croats did to Serbs because of what Serbs did to Croats because of what Croats did to Serbs... just doensn't wash. The wash-rinse cycle has to stop somewhere or else end in mutual annihilation.

The Serbs did try to stop it and threw themselves into Forgive-and Forget mode for some fifty years in the Krajina. The Croats remembered and could not stand their own guilt (after all, how could they, the superior Croats, possibly be ((gasp)) guilty?). They had to expunge it in the only way they could -- get rid of their pesky Serbs who were the evidence.

What the Serbs did in terms of ethnic cleansing in retaliation for Croat ethnic cleansing of Serbs was wrong. As was the Croat ethnic cleansing wrong. It's all just wrong. "Revenge killing" of whoever or wherever is wrong. No matter who does it.

160 posted on 06/12/2003 4:38:33 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: wonders
The wash-rinse cycle has to stop somewhere or else end in mutual annihilation.

I agree, and the point I was making that started this whole discussion about Operation Storm was that the West's recognition of the breakaway Yugo states did nothing but perpetuate this cycle.

I'm reminded of the 1765 debate in the British parliament over taxing the American colonies. One member, Charles Townshend, justified it by the pompous declaration that we were "nourished up by our indulgence". To which Isaac Barre responded: "They nourished up by your indulgence? they grew by your neglect of Em: ---as soon as you began to care about Em, that Care was Excercised in sending persons to rule over Em, in one Department and another, who were perhaps the Deputies of Deputies to some Member of this house---sent to Spy out their Lyberty, to misrepresent their Actions & to prey upon Em."

Makes me think of what an Indian UN general in the Balkans (whose name I forget at the moment) said comparing his home country to Yugoslavia. He stated that the same mess could easily have happened in India if the West decided to make an issue out of it - all because we "care", of course.

161 posted on 06/12/2003 5:15:17 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: inquest
Well, the cycle was merely convenient and they took advantage of it. Nuff said.

Oh my, the 1765 debate. I'm from East Tennessee. There's a little town there on the approach to the Great Smokey Mountains National Park named "Townsend" -- look it up and the family names of its founders sometime. :)

Some of my ancestors were Barrs (dropped the "e" in the New World). Nuff said, as we say in Tennessee.

I know the General of whom you speak. Actually, he was from a particular part of India... oh well, he was a fine man in any case...
162 posted on 06/12/2003 5:26:20 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Wonders for Secretary of State!!!!
163 posted on 06/12/2003 5:32:42 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: PiP PiP Cherrio
Wonders for Secretary of State!!!!

Thank you kindly for the vote of confidence,but I simply could not prostitute myself so! (Very Southern, very perplexed sigh.)

164 posted on 06/12/2003 5:41:46 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: joan; Hoplite; wonders
Wonders was a UN officer in Croatia during this, and her estimate, given on FR, was that the number was much greater than 400. She estimated, once on FR, that between 5,000 - 7,000 Serb civilians were killed in Operation Storm and the aftermath, much more than 400.

Still parroting that crap eh Joan?

Can you give us names for the supposed 5-7,000?

No. Of course you can't because it didn't happen.

Some 400 were murdered after Storm, when the 4th under Gotovina was steaming towards Banja Luka. Every murder a crime.

Some others than the 400 were killed during the fighting, but that happens during war.

Who are these supposed 5,000 Joan? Please document them or drop the ridiculous assertion.

Hi wonders!

165 posted on 06/12/2003 5:46:04 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Your post #165 makes absolutely no sense to me...or am I missing something? If you re-read it, perhaps it will make no sense to you, either, unless you meant it in a sinister fashion... I do hope that's not the case...

If not, perhaps you'll clarify. (Giving you the benefit of the doubt here.)

166 posted on 06/12/2003 5:57:35 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: wonders
And to the “retired” American military advisors in Jarstrebarsko, those “gurus” who thought it a brilliant plan and thus endorsed that plan (what separates them from the SS, pray tell? And God rest their souls).

I'm wondering about how many American military advisors were in Jarstrebarsko - does it take very many to "do the job right" or does it require only a very few? Like, would the number be 10, 50, 100, etc.?

saw the bloodied white blouse which looked as if it would have fit a girl of about four years old blow off one off one of these trucks. I have a photo of that little blouse where it landed beside the road.

Well, were there very many dead Serbian girls from around that age later discovered in mass graves or other graves? Or what about the missing reports of kids that age from that time? It would seem that the number fitting that criteria wouldn't be so large in that far more adults and elderly were killed than children, and you can narrow it to that time frame. So what I'm saying is that maybe a good guess as to her identity can be made.

This boy was from Sector West, imprisoned by Croats in Pakrac, passing through Sector North on his way to relatives in BiH (his immediate family was killed in Sector West). I interviewed him and had UN doctors examine him in June of 1995.

Oh, so this happened before Operation Storm. Do you know the time of his imprisonment. And how many members were there in his immediate family whom were killed - would this include any brothers or sisters?

Okay, German machines and German help cleaning the streets after the slaughter/refugee exodus, not German soldiers. But Germans were involved in Operation Storm according to the Canadians:

http://www.balkanpeace.org/wcs/wct/wctc/wctc13.html

German mercenaries

The Canadians radioed back to Maj. Rochette with this news and asked for directions. It was also noted and passed on to Rochette’s headquarters that these "Croatians" were, in fact, well-armed German mercenaries.

During the radio exchanges between Rochette and his outposts, the major’s intentions became moot. Additional "Croats" had quietly surrounded the citadels and then forced their way inside.

Back at Charlie Company headquarters, they were puzzled and alarmed when one of the beleaguered detachment sergeants suddenly went off the air. They had no way of knowing that a "Croat" soldier had just placed a primed hand grenade against the NCO’s head. The next message Rochette received was that his two units were en route to Zadar under Croat escort...


167 posted on 06/12/2003 5:59:29 PM PDT by joan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: joan; inquest; wonders
Just wanna say thanks for a great thread, everyone!
168 posted on 06/12/2003 6:09:34 PM PDT by bob808
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: Putnik_1915
Folks, let's all admit it...Hoplite is simply a schizophrenic simpleton. I have no doubts that he, like many of his ilk, is all for sealing the Mexican border and then escorting the million or so illegals from south of the border to the other side. However, he has no problem at all allowing a million or more ALBANIANS (i.e., from the country of Albania) to swarm (yes, like insects) over Kosovo and demand their legitimazation as 'Kosovars'. What absolute cheek!

Albanian Muslims made a successful Jihad via immigration and illegal immigration from Albania. By driving out Serbs and by demographics. Muslim demographics propel all of their Jihads today. All this under Tito who tried to smash down every ethnic group. This was his way of smashing down the Serbs and weakening their hold on Kosovo. So now the Muslims have additional territory (Dar al Islam) in Europe.

Oh, and America helped all this happen under Clinton. Clinton and Europe wanted to suck up the Islamic oil nations by helping the Muslims make Jihad in Europe.

169 posted on 06/12/2003 6:11:21 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: joan
Keep fighting the lost fight Joan. Slobo sold the Croatian Serbs out, even they realize it.
170 posted on 06/12/2003 6:19:48 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: joan
C'mon Joan. Document the 7,000 dead. An anonymous internet source doesn't qualify.
171 posted on 06/12/2003 6:20:33 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 167 | View Replies]

To: wonders
No sinister intent.

She made the claim, she needs to back it up with documentation.

If 7,000 were killed, what are their names?

172 posted on 06/12/2003 6:22:33 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
You're right Dennis. Clinton did force the Jihadists on the Balkans in concert with the ISI and the Saudis.
173 posted on 06/12/2003 6:26:09 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
LOL! Serbs still crying about Croatia when the more sinister Islamic menace is to their south and west.
174 posted on 06/12/2003 6:28:24 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 173 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
An anonymous internet source doesn't qualify.

Yup, and I happen to be that "anonymous internet source." So pick on me, not on joan.

According to your terms I don't "qualify" as it's not reported in the respected "Western mainstream media." Fair enough. I think we can all agree the NYT qualifies as an outlet of said respected "Western mainstream media" so let's forget what I saw with my own eyes... the NYT reported that Oluja was the largest ethnic cleansing in Europe after WWII as of that date. We can all agree on that!

Of course my number is below that documented by ICRC as "missing not located" (and/or confirmed dead) and even farther below the same by those Serbian "refugee agencies" (names included, including a few names of people I found alive and well). If you're a native Croat, you know the truth and don't need me to remind you of it. If you're a Canadian descendant of Croats, you'll just live in your fantasy life. It's up to you. I'm decidedly leaning toward believing you're the latter, BTW, but will give you a chance.

175 posted on 06/12/2003 6:41:17 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
ISI? Pakistan was involved? The foreign Jihadis in the Balkans were Arabs not Pakistanis.
176 posted on 06/12/2003 6:42:18 PM PDT by dennisw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 173 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
ON LibForum, I stated an inquiry on the Gotovina 50K Euro bounty, what happens? The next few days, he is contemplating a surrender to the Hauge..could be he is afraid of the Fire? :)
177 posted on 06/12/2003 6:42:57 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
a mixture of many Islamic heathens, dennis. They came from everywhere.
178 posted on 06/12/2003 6:52:36 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: Destro
I don't know what in the heck you're going to do with this, but thought you might have fun with it ... from International Refugee News:

"Bosnia's central government decided to require Iranian citizens to enter the country with visas in a bid to prevent mass illegal migration into Europe. According to the United Nations mission to Bosnia, 12,323 Iranians arrived to Sarajevo airport this year and only 1,062 of them have left the country. During the past three months, Croatian authorities have returned over 2,300 Iranians to Bosnia. The decision on visas was made at the request of the Iranian government. "The UN hopes that this decision helps stem the growing problem of illegal migration to Bosnia," Douglas Coffman, UN spokesman, told AFP. (Agence France Presse, December 7, 2000)"

And this item, too:

"Croatian police detained a group of 42 “illegal immigrants” as they attempted to enter the country from Bosnia. Twenty-five Iranian and 17 Turkish citizens were arrested in the central Croatian village of Gornji Vaganac, near the Licko Petrovo Selo border crossing with Bosnia. In the first eight months of the year, Croatian authorities detained some 11,500 illegal immigrants -- mostly Romanians, Turks, Iranians and Chinese -- 40 percent more than in the same period in 1999. (Agence France Presse, November 30, 2000)"

Enjoy!

179 posted on 06/12/2003 6:52:42 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: wonders
No, you've just built up a strawman using the New York Times.

I'm asking for the names of the supposed 7,000 killed. That's it. Give me the names and their former places of residence.

180 posted on 06/12/2003 7:04:14 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: PiP PiP Cherrio
LOL! He must be afraid of Vatra! Jesu onih Muslimani meni dosadili!
181 posted on 06/12/2003 7:04:54 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
ISI? Pakistan was involved? The foreign Jihadis in the Balkans were Arabs not Pakistanis.

Almost all that were sent were Afghan veterans and therefore had the ties to the ISI through Peshawar. It's the same Saudi-Pak alliance that supported the Taliban against the Iranian-backed Hazaras, and Russian-backed Tajiks and Uzbeks.

Through in the State Dep't with the Pak-Saudis if you're brave enough :)

182 posted on 06/12/2003 7:06:43 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Throw, not through!
183 posted on 06/12/2003 7:07:14 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 182 | View Replies]

To: inquest
...the point I was making that started this whole discussion about Operation Storm was that the West's recognition of the breakaway Yugo states did nothing but perpetuate this cycle.

Sorry I didn't address this part of your post before. A silly oversight on my part. Yes. I see what you are saying. Badinter Commission's recommendation, etc. That's well-documented in everything from publice records down to Misha Glenny's book.

Oh, have you visited this fine gentleman's web site? If not, I suggest you do! It's not organanised as it used to be and would have been more useful to you if it were... but do have a look at Ambassador James Bisset's web page.

184 posted on 06/12/2003 7:09:37 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Don't be ridiculous. The names are available even on the web and you know it. The Times is the Times. Genuflect, okay?

Now, as for where you live, which part of Canada....?

185 posted on 06/12/2003 7:11:50 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: inquest
I agree, and the point I was making that started this whole discussion about Operation Storm was that the West's recognition of the breakaway Yugo states did nothing but perpetuate this cycle.

I guess non-recognition leaving us to the mercy of the JNA with the examples of Vukovar and Vocin would have been a better option?

If you were a Croat I doubt you'd say that.

186 posted on 06/12/2003 7:12:40 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 161 | View Replies]

To: dennisw
Ping to my #179, in case you found it interesting.
187 posted on 06/12/2003 7:13:08 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Where are the names of the 7,000? Pull them out and give us a link.
188 posted on 06/12/2003 7:13:10 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Again, you're not making sense in this post. Please clarify. (Whining does not count.)
189 posted on 06/12/2003 7:15:54 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato; PiP PiP Cherrio
Incredible! Go away for a bit and see that most have regressed into repeating Serb propaganda....except for PiP PiP who knows the truth since he was there.
190 posted on 06/12/2003 7:15:56 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Fine, give me a link to the names of all your claimed Croat dead first.
191 posted on 06/12/2003 7:16:55 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Sorry if it comes across as whining, but it isn't.

Please give us a link to the names of the supposed 5,000 to 7,000 Serbs killed during and after Storm in within Croatian borders.

192 posted on 06/12/2003 7:16:56 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 189 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Weak diversion. That's not the topic of discussion here. The topic is Storm and it's aftermath.

Try and stay on topic.

193 posted on 06/12/2003 7:17:34 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 191 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Just where in Canada are you?
194 posted on 06/12/2003 7:19:26 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: wonders
I guess you don't have the proof wonders.

Doesn't suprise me...and no, I'm not "Damjan"....you should know who this is by now.

195 posted on 06/12/2003 7:21:10 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 194 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
If the topic is Storm and its aftermath, I was there in the middle of "Storm" was part of the Surrender negotiation and was there to clean up the aftermath... where were you, dough boy?
196 posted on 06/12/2003 7:21:51 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: wonders
August 4th, 1995...liberated Benkovac.

Do you now know who this is?

And BTW, where are the names of the supposed 7,000?

197 posted on 06/12/2003 7:23:32 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 196 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Hey, you're my old old buddy who explained the 5th Corps sheep to me! (Hugs)
198 posted on 06/12/2003 7:27:29 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]

To: wonders
Long time wonders :) How's everything in the lovely rolling hills of Kentucky (I think)....

Yup, Dudakovic's 5th did some nasty stuff to the fleeing Serbs near Dvor, and they've gotten away scot free while the blame has been pinned on my boys.

199 posted on 06/12/2003 7:28:54 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 198 | View Replies]

To: Diocletian of Spalato
Where is Dudakovic now, any idea on his 6?
200 posted on 06/12/2003 7:32:24 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! -- www.pedalinpeace.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250251-272 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson