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Wolfowitz in Skopje What Next for Macedonia? ^ | May 20, 2003 | Christopher Deliso

Posted on 05/20/2003 8:51:59 AM PDT by Destro

Wolfowitz in Skopje – What Next for Macedonia?

by Christopher Deliso

May 20, 2003

A total eclipse of the full moon on Friday morning, street warfare between Macedonians and Albanians in Tetovo on Friday night – could these portentous events have had anything to do with the next day's visit from US Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz?

Über-hawk Wolfowitz touched down briefly in Skopje on the third leg of his Balkan tour. At his first stop (Sarajevo) Wolfowitz oversaw the signing of a treaty guaranteeing that Bosnia will never extradite an American soldier to the International Criminal Court (ICC) for war crimes. At the second stop, Kosovo's Camp Bondsteel, Wolfowitz inspected the troops at this all but forgotten imperial outpost.

Wolfowitz's trip to Macedonia was decidedly low-key, and lasted only a few hours. Officially, he came for the photo op and speech praising the Iraq-bound Macedonian conscripts. However, the fact that he also met in private with former NLA boss Ali Ahmeti, President Boris Trajkovski, and later with Prime Minister Branko Crvenkovski and Defense Minister Vlade Buchkovski seems to indicate that Rumsfeld's right-hand man came to talk business.

Operation Evade Journalists

However, it is slightly unclear as to what that business was. Wolfowitz's entourage, which included US Ambassador Laurence Butler and the proverbial men in dark suits and sunglasses talking on mobile phones, were escorted briskly in and out of government buildings all morning, leaving little chance for interrogation. Although Wolfowitz answered two or three mundane questions in a mundane way when meeting with Trajkovski, no real explanation for his visit was given. And the US Embassy on Saturday claimed to have no one available who could speak on the matter.

Saturday's final photo op for Wolfowitz was the Macedonian Army's Ilinden barracks, a sprawling encampment situated on a high wooded bluff overlooking Skopje. Here Wolfowitz gave a short speech to the 39 Iraq-bound Macedonian soldiers. Among them are members of the Wolves (special forces), as well as army medics.

Flanked by officials, Wolfowitz stood opposite the neatly-arrayed Macedonian troops and thanked them for playing their part in the "liberation" of the Iraqi people from "…one of the worst dictators of modern history." He also alluded to the US-imposed Ohrid Agreement when praising the Macedonians for "settling issues by talking instead of by fighting." He then proceeded down the row, cordially shaking hands with each of the conscripts. Much snapping and flashing ensued from the thicket of cameras adjacent.

photo by Cvetin Cilimanov for

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: albania; balkans; campaignfinance; macedonia; paulwolfowitz
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To: wonders
The wash-rinse cycle has to stop somewhere or else end in mutual annihilation.

I agree, and the point I was making that started this whole discussion about Operation Storm was that the West's recognition of the breakaway Yugo states did nothing but perpetuate this cycle.

I'm reminded of the 1765 debate in the British parliament over taxing the American colonies. One member, Charles Townshend, justified it by the pompous declaration that we were "nourished up by our indulgence". To which Isaac Barre responded: "They nourished up by your indulgence? they grew by your neglect of Em: ---as soon as you began to care about Em, that Care was Excercised in sending persons to rule over Em, in one Department and another, who were perhaps the Deputies of Deputies to some Member of this house---sent to Spy out their Lyberty, to misrepresent their Actions & to prey upon Em."

Makes me think of what an Indian UN general in the Balkans (whose name I forget at the moment) said comparing his home country to Yugoslavia. He stated that the same mess could easily have happened in India if the West decided to make an issue out of it - all because we "care", of course.

161 posted on 06/12/2003 5:15:17 PM PDT by inquest
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To: inquest
Well, the cycle was merely convenient and they took advantage of it. Nuff said.

Oh my, the 1765 debate. I'm from East Tennessee. There's a little town there on the approach to the Great Smokey Mountains National Park named "Townsend" -- look it up and the family names of its founders sometime. :)

Some of my ancestors were Barrs (dropped the "e" in the New World). Nuff said, as we say in Tennessee.

I know the General of whom you speak. Actually, he was from a particular part of India... oh well, he was a fine man in any case...
162 posted on 06/12/2003 5:26:20 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
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To: wonders
Wonders for Secretary of State!!!!
163 posted on 06/12/2003 5:32:42 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! --
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio
Wonders for Secretary of State!!!!

Thank you kindly for the vote of confidence,but I simply could not prostitute myself so! (Very Southern, very perplexed sigh.)

164 posted on 06/12/2003 5:41:46 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
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To: joan; Hoplite; wonders
Wonders was a UN officer in Croatia during this, and her estimate, given on FR, was that the number was much greater than 400. She estimated, once on FR, that between 5,000 - 7,000 Serb civilians were killed in Operation Storm and the aftermath, much more than 400.

Still parroting that crap eh Joan?

Can you give us names for the supposed 5-7,000?

No. Of course you can't because it didn't happen.

Some 400 were murdered after Storm, when the 4th under Gotovina was steaming towards Banja Luka. Every murder a crime.

Some others than the 400 were killed during the fighting, but that happens during war.

Who are these supposed 5,000 Joan? Please document them or drop the ridiculous assertion.

Hi wonders!

165 posted on 06/12/2003 5:46:04 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
Your post #165 makes absolutely no sense to me...or am I missing something? If you re-read it, perhaps it will make no sense to you, either, unless you meant it in a sinister fashion... I do hope that's not the case...

If not, perhaps you'll clarify. (Giving you the benefit of the doubt here.)

166 posted on 06/12/2003 5:57:35 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
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To: wonders
And to the “retired” American military advisors in Jarstrebarsko, those “gurus” who thought it a brilliant plan and thus endorsed that plan (what separates them from the SS, pray tell? And God rest their souls).

I'm wondering about how many American military advisors were in Jarstrebarsko - does it take very many to "do the job right" or does it require only a very few? Like, would the number be 10, 50, 100, etc.?

saw the bloodied white blouse which looked as if it would have fit a girl of about four years old blow off one off one of these trucks. I have a photo of that little blouse where it landed beside the road.

Well, were there very many dead Serbian girls from around that age later discovered in mass graves or other graves? Or what about the missing reports of kids that age from that time? It would seem that the number fitting that criteria wouldn't be so large in that far more adults and elderly were killed than children, and you can narrow it to that time frame. So what I'm saying is that maybe a good guess as to her identity can be made.

This boy was from Sector West, imprisoned by Croats in Pakrac, passing through Sector North on his way to relatives in BiH (his immediate family was killed in Sector West). I interviewed him and had UN doctors examine him in June of 1995.

Oh, so this happened before Operation Storm. Do you know the time of his imprisonment. And how many members were there in his immediate family whom were killed - would this include any brothers or sisters?

Okay, German machines and German help cleaning the streets after the slaughter/refugee exodus, not German soldiers. But Germans were involved in Operation Storm according to the Canadians:

German mercenaries

The Canadians radioed back to Maj. Rochette with this news and asked for directions. It was also noted and passed on to Rochette’s headquarters that these "Croatians" were, in fact, well-armed German mercenaries.

During the radio exchanges between Rochette and his outposts, the major’s intentions became moot. Additional "Croats" had quietly surrounded the citadels and then forced their way inside.

Back at Charlie Company headquarters, they were puzzled and alarmed when one of the beleaguered detachment sergeants suddenly went off the air. They had no way of knowing that a "Croat" soldier had just placed a primed hand grenade against the NCO’s head. The next message Rochette received was that his two units were en route to Zadar under Croat escort...

167 posted on 06/12/2003 5:59:29 PM PDT by joan
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To: joan; inquest; wonders
Just wanna say thanks for a great thread, everyone!
168 posted on 06/12/2003 6:09:34 PM PDT by bob808
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To: Putnik_1915
Folks, let's all admit it...Hoplite is simply a schizophrenic simpleton. I have no doubts that he, like many of his ilk, is all for sealing the Mexican border and then escorting the million or so illegals from south of the border to the other side. However, he has no problem at all allowing a million or more ALBANIANS (i.e., from the country of Albania) to swarm (yes, like insects) over Kosovo and demand their legitimazation as 'Kosovars'. What absolute cheek!

Albanian Muslims made a successful Jihad via immigration and illegal immigration from Albania. By driving out Serbs and by demographics. Muslim demographics propel all of their Jihads today. All this under Tito who tried to smash down every ethnic group. This was his way of smashing down the Serbs and weakening their hold on Kosovo. So now the Muslims have additional territory (Dar al Islam) in Europe.

Oh, and America helped all this happen under Clinton. Clinton and Europe wanted to suck up the Islamic oil nations by helping the Muslims make Jihad in Europe.

169 posted on 06/12/2003 6:11:21 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: joan
Keep fighting the lost fight Joan. Slobo sold the Croatian Serbs out, even they realize it.
170 posted on 06/12/2003 6:19:48 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: joan
C'mon Joan. Document the 7,000 dead. An anonymous internet source doesn't qualify.
171 posted on 06/12/2003 6:20:33 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: wonders
No sinister intent.

She made the claim, she needs to back it up with documentation.

If 7,000 were killed, what are their names?

172 posted on 06/12/2003 6:22:33 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: dennisw
You're right Dennis. Clinton did force the Jihadists on the Balkans in concert with the ISI and the Saudis.
173 posted on 06/12/2003 6:26:09 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
LOL! Serbs still crying about Croatia when the more sinister Islamic menace is to their south and west.
174 posted on 06/12/2003 6:28:24 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
An anonymous internet source doesn't qualify.

Yup, and I happen to be that "anonymous internet source." So pick on me, not on joan.

According to your terms I don't "qualify" as it's not reported in the respected "Western mainstream media." Fair enough. I think we can all agree the NYT qualifies as an outlet of said respected "Western mainstream media" so let's forget what I saw with my own eyes... the NYT reported that Oluja was the largest ethnic cleansing in Europe after WWII as of that date. We can all agree on that!

Of course my number is below that documented by ICRC as "missing not located" (and/or confirmed dead) and even farther below the same by those Serbian "refugee agencies" (names included, including a few names of people I found alive and well). If you're a native Croat, you know the truth and don't need me to remind you of it. If you're a Canadian descendant of Croats, you'll just live in your fantasy life. It's up to you. I'm decidedly leaning toward believing you're the latter, BTW, but will give you a chance.

175 posted on 06/12/2003 6:41:17 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
ISI? Pakistan was involved? The foreign Jihadis in the Balkans were Arabs not Pakistanis.
176 posted on 06/12/2003 6:42:18 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Diocletian of Spalato
ON LibForum, I stated an inquiry on the Gotovina 50K Euro bounty, what happens? The next few days, he is contemplating a surrender to the Hauge..could be he is afraid of the Fire? :)
177 posted on 06/12/2003 6:42:57 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! --
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To: dennisw
a mixture of many Islamic heathens, dennis. They came from everywhere.
178 posted on 06/12/2003 6:52:36 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! --
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To: Destro
I don't know what in the heck you're going to do with this, but thought you might have fun with it ... from International Refugee News:

"Bosnia's central government decided to require Iranian citizens to enter the country with visas in a bid to prevent mass illegal migration into Europe. According to the United Nations mission to Bosnia, 12,323 Iranians arrived to Sarajevo airport this year and only 1,062 of them have left the country. During the past three months, Croatian authorities have returned over 2,300 Iranians to Bosnia. The decision on visas was made at the request of the Iranian government. "The UN hopes that this decision helps stem the growing problem of illegal migration to Bosnia," Douglas Coffman, UN spokesman, told AFP. (Agence France Presse, December 7, 2000)"

And this item, too:

"Croatian police detained a group of 42 “illegal immigrants” as they attempted to enter the country from Bosnia. Twenty-five Iranian and 17 Turkish citizens were arrested in the central Croatian village of Gornji Vaganac, near the Licko Petrovo Selo border crossing with Bosnia. In the first eight months of the year, Croatian authorities detained some 11,500 illegal immigrants -- mostly Romanians, Turks, Iranians and Chinese -- 40 percent more than in the same period in 1999. (Agence France Presse, November 30, 2000)"


179 posted on 06/12/2003 6:52:42 PM PDT by wonders (Tag sale!)
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To: wonders
No, you've just built up a strawman using the New York Times.

I'm asking for the names of the supposed 7,000 killed. That's it. Give me the names and their former places of residence.

180 posted on 06/12/2003 7:04:14 PM PDT by Diocletian of Spalato
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