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US fabricated evidence in Yugoslavia, says former official
Unknown News ^ | February 6, 2003 | Frank in Stockholm

Posted on 05/27/2003 6:34:29 PM PDT by getoffmylawn

The US "fabricated evidence" against former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic during clashes between Serbia and Bosnia in the mid-1990s, according to a prominent and experienced international peacekeeping official who served there.

Retired Swedish Brigadier General Bo Pellnas, who was head of UN Military Observers (UNMOs) in Croatia, now says that the US should not be trusted. Pellnas says that he learned to distrust US-provided evidence during peacekeeping service in the former Yugoslavia.

Pellnas's misgivings are described in an article from the Swedish daily newspaper Aftonbladet. Here is an English-language translation of this article:

In an interview with Sweden's leading news-wire TT, retired Brigadier Bo Pellnas claims that the US "faked evidence to suit their own interests."

"If the US were to present evidence of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, the countries of the Western world would have no way to substantiate these reports due to the technical superiority of the US."

These are the words of retired Brigadier Bo Pellnas, who says he witnessed the US "fabricating fact to suit their own needs." Pellnas says he witnessed this first-hand when he led an international force which safeguarded the borders between Serbia and Bosnia in the mid-1990s, where he gained a very good insight and understanding of US operations. "The technical superiority of the US gives their politicians the option of bringing forth fake evidence, in this case in front of the United Nations Security Council."

Pellnas served in Yugoslavia during a time when US efforts, led by then Secretary of State Madeline Albright, presented evidence to the UN Security Council that Milosevic's Belgrade government ran unmonitored arms shipments. Pellnas claims that Albright's staff presented manipulated satellite photos to document false allegations, leading the Security Council to act in accordance with the US hard line against Milosevic.

"There might be a possibility that Albright thought the pictures to be true," says Pellnas, "but several incidents pointed towards the fact that the US lied." The US stood firm by their claims, refusing to show supporting evidence to Pellnas and other members of the peacekeeping crew.

"If the US were to come forth with evidence against Iraq which were "difficult to confirm," the permanent members of the Council will be put in a difficult situation, since they lack the sufficient tools to research and verify such claims."

Pellnas said he hopes that nations of the European Union make it their responsibility to build their own intelligence agency which has the capability to act as a counterbalance to the US. "It would be great indeed if the EU could act as a balance to the world's only true superpower, which acts alone these days."

In addition to his UN duties, Pellnas was also in charge of an international monitoring mission to Yugoslavia in 1994 sponsored by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and worked with the International Conference on the Former Yugoslavia (ICFY), a group established in 1991 to find a peaceful solution to the region's conflicts.

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: balkans; bosnia; campaignfinance; formeryugoslavia; iraq; kosovo; serbia
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To: getoffmylawn
They placed 18 members of my family in a Serbian church in Krajina during WW2 and burned the church to the ground killing all of them.

May God bless their souls. +Memory Eternal.

41 posted on 05/28/2003 7:02:13 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: farmerbrown
"As nearly as I can tell, the Serbs are the closest thing there are to normal decent people in the Balkans."

There are plenty of normal, decent people in the Balkans—many of them are Serbs and many of them are something else. Generalizations based on race or ethnicity are either naïve stereotyping at best or blatant racism at worst.

"In fact the Serbs declared war on Hitler and held him for many months and sent him into Russia in the dead of winter instead of on schedule, but for which we might all be working in a Nazi coal mine in West Virginia."

Sorry, I cannot let this go by. The Yugoslav Army collapsed in just a few days when Hitler’s army invaded, at a cost of about 150 German dead. That was in April of 1941. The Germans attacked the Soviet Union in June. The timing for the attack was based primarily on the ebbing of the Eastern European rivers after the spring thaw, which came late that year. You can make the case that Yugo partisans tied down a considerable amount of German combat power later in the war, but Yugo resistance, or lack thereof, in 1941 had no impact on the German attack of Russia. And do you really think all of us could fit into that coal mine in West Virginia?

"In fact, the Serbs rescued something like 500 allied airmen who were downed coming back from the raids over Ploesti and other balkan targets. Any allied airman who ever parachuted into Croatia, Albania, or any of the other parts of the Balkans was tortured and killed."

The Serbs can be proud of their resistance against the Nazis, to include the rescue and return of numerous Allied airmen. The Croats have little to brag about in this regard. However, the Albanian partisans, both Hoxha’s communists and the Balli Kombetar nationalists, fighting against first the Italians and then the Germans, rescued dozens and dozens of allied airmen and returned many of them across the Adriatic to allied forces in Italy.

"These people average ten or twelve children per family, and attempt to ensconce themselves into little corners of other peoples' countries and breed for fifteen or twenty years until they constitute a majority population in those corners, and then break those corners off into their "greater Albania"."

Exactly where is this “greater Albania”? Of what “little corners of other peoples’ countries” is it comprised? Who is running it? And yes, "these people" have high birth rates, but that is consistent with populations from poverty-stricken rural areas—the Serbian women in Kosovo had the highest birth-rates among the Slavic peoples in the former Yugoslavia. And do they really “breed” in order to develop a majority population? This sounds like one of those old KKK tracts warning the white folks to watch out for those fast-breedin’, no-counts of a different color.

Farmer Brown, You are on target with your comments on the Kosovo intervention by the US/NATO, but you’d be even more persuasive if you just left out the historical revisionism and racial nonsense.
42 posted on 05/28/2003 8:40:53 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: farmerbrown
I'm not a source, farmer - since your latest link re-alleges the torture story, why don't you show some initiative and find out exactly how the story started?

Try the transcripts from July 26th, '02 - that would be a good place to start, don't you think?

43 posted on 05/28/2003 8:50:12 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: getoffmylawn
They placed 18 members of my family in a Serbian church in Krajina during WW2 and burned the church to the ground killing all of them.

They did the same to my family when they refused to be forcibly converted to Roman Catholicism. Of course, the man who began that program will soon be named a saint!

44 posted on 05/29/2003 6:16:43 PM PDT by FormerLib
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To: Hoplite
It is 'utter stupidity' to accuse anyone who was against the attack on Serbia as being 'Milosevic's defenders'... but then I'm sure that you know that anyway.
45 posted on 05/30/2003 9:01:32 AM PDT by Kate22
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To: FormerLib
My greatgrandfather of Sid,Serbia hid in a tree for 3 days from the Hungarians and Germans before he fell. He caught pnuemonia and died as it was raining the entire time- they shot him. An old man held out in a tree, during a rainstorm. The Nazis wanted him for an unknown reason, he went out on his terms, not theirs. That side of my family (with a differant family name)has a proud, traditionally proud Hajduk history. Darn proud of their Adventurious past!
46 posted on 05/30/2003 10:15:41 AM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! --
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To: Kate22
Before his untimely demise, farmerbrown posted a link to the ICDSM and declared it a worthwhile organization.

Guess you missed that one.

47 posted on 05/30/2003 2:16:46 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: Hoplite
now- who the heck was farmerbrown? I'm here, so it sure was not I, or was it?..:)
48 posted on 05/30/2003 2:41:53 PM PDT by PiP PiP Cherrio (Kosovo is Secure! --
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To: PiP PiP Cherrio; Hoplite; DTA; getoffmylawn; kosta50; bob808
Just checking in here....wanna say hello to everyone...
49 posted on 05/31/2003 11:04:50 PM PDT by yonorono
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To: Kate22
Hi Kate!
50 posted on 06/01/2003 12:20:36 AM PDT by yonorono
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To: yonorono
Hello to you too!
51 posted on 06/01/2003 12:12:56 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: joan; getoffmylawn
Guys, take the time to read some confessional "evidence" presented here. One has to be so stupid he or she can't button a shirt to believe it. But, it's sure good enough for a premeditaed conviction. Remember, if you don't have a real court, you don't need real evidence either!

Some of the "pearls" that stand out are so obvious I had to bite my lip, because I was laughing so hard. I think this "evidence" was made public in hopes that FauxNews would carry them, for the public iliteratti who actually believe in Flat Earth.

Imagine a Chief of Staff, and acting commander of a brigade, didn't know the prisoners arrived but found about it from his -- wife! This guy knows the first and last names of each and every little junior officer he called on, yet he (conveniently) cannot remember the name (didn't think it was importamnt enough?) of an "elderly man" who actually told him something pivotal, i.e. that "...Nikolich had personally taken part in the execution..." Hearsay! Pure garbage!

And so is the rest -- he finds out that such as such happened, but wasn't there to see it, and so on. And his commander gives orders to execute prisoners over the radio and, of course, everyone listens.

The "confession" of Dragan Obrenovich was a sudden memory jarring process -- from April 18, 2001 when he was delivered to Carla's Lair, and his "recollection" on May 21, 2001, when he signed the "confession," looking rather shoddy that day. Funny how much one can remember in such a short time on prison food, given that he pleaded innocent and called his charges false four weeks earlier.

The prison stample and life also had an effect on his reasoning as well. He pleabargained so that his sentence (which was a foregone conclusion even without his pleabargaining) could be reduced from life to -- 15 to 20 years. What a deal!

I think he and Bilyana Plavshich must be related. She gave up her life sentence for 15 or so years instead. That would be considerable if she were not in her late 70's. But, prison food and water can have weird efects on people -- who would know, right?

So, where are all those people he names in his "confession?" Why don't they just take the investigators to where those bodies are? And what bout our ever-vigilant and all-seeing Predator, satellite and those Marine Corps RC model planes (weeeeeee) that keep an eye on the theater of operations 24/7/365?

On the matter of Mad Cow forgery... It is a noble thing to try to expose a government that has taken a moral nosedive to fabricate "evidence," to cheat and deceive and, in spite of all that, have to use brutal force to get its way. That's not what democracies are all about. Some of the fascist right wing thugs on drugs who appear on this forum waving the flag and disbelieveing "neutral" and "foreign" generals who acuse us of forgery are now enjoying a McCarhty revival -- for a time being. Historical facts show that the reasons we often went to war over were as bogus as a $3 bill, staring from "the Maine," the sinking of "the Lisutania," te War to End All Wars, the Make World Safe for Democracy, the Pearl harbor "surprise," the Gulf of Tonkin "incident," the Makrale bombings, the Rachak massacre, and now the "would-you-believe-if-I-tell-you" ready-to-shoot thousands of WMDs story for the Dumb and Dumber.

It doesn't matter if the evidence is falsified. There is nothing one can do to undo this. The victors write history -- for a while anyway. Don't waste your time.

52 posted on 06/01/2003 1:25:33 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50
Hi Kosta! Kako ide?
53 posted on 06/01/2003 2:13:44 PM PDT by yonorono
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To: yonorono
Dobro, a tebi?
54 posted on 06/01/2003 9:57:11 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: kosta50
ide, ide. Jesi li pricao sa Bob808-om? Ima bolji forum nego ovaj...
55 posted on 06/01/2003 10:52:24 PM PDT by yonorono
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To: yonorono
Pazi sta govoris, covece! Ce da nas uhapsaju!

56 posted on 06/01/2003 11:18:47 PM PDT by bob808
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To: yonorono; bob808
Ma nemoj? To on(a) kaze? A ja mislio da je ovaj najbolji, da nema slobodnijeg od ovoga.
57 posted on 06/02/2003 4:22:33 AM PDT by kosta50
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To: bob808; kosta50
Ko im jebe mater!
58 posted on 06/02/2003 7:11:31 AM PDT by yonorono
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To: kosta50
Kosta: "Historical facts show that the reasons we often went to war over were as bogus as a $3 bill, staring from "the Maine," the sinking of "the Lisutania," te War to End All Wars, the Make World Safe for Democracy, the Pearl harbor "surprise," the Gulf of Tonkin "incident," the Makrale bombings, the Rachak massacre, and now the "would-you-believe-if-I-tell-you" ready-to-shoot thousands of WMDs story for the Dumb and Dumber."

Let's set the record straight:
1-The USA did not fight the Spanish-American War over the sinking of the Maine, although that event further inflamed the already significant anti-Spain popular opinion in America. Before the Maine blew up there were already numerous calls for war based on the considerable "pan-American" sentiment & sympathy for the Cuban people fighting for independence, plus outrage at the brutality of Spanish tactics. Although many in the USA blamed Spain for the explosion, the debate and President McKinley's stated reasons for the war centered around the fighting in Cuba, not what hapened to the Maine.
2-The USA did not fight WWI based on the sinking of the Lusitania; which occurred two years before the USA entered WWI. America declared war because of the German declaration of unrestricted submarine warfare. The declaration of war would have happened if the Lusitania had never existed.
3-The USA did not fight WWII based on "surprise" at Pearl Harbor. America declared war because Japan attacked the USA at Pearl Harbor--a few conspiracy theorists out on the whacko fringe believe that FDR knew about the attack ahead of time, but even if we grant that very dubious point--so what? Are we not entitled to respond to an attack unless its a surprise? Or are you saying that FDR somehow ordered Admiral Yamamoto to bomb Pearl Harbor?
4-In spite of lefty mythology, the Gulf of Tonkin incident did occur; i.e. N. Vietnamese patrol craft attacked U.S. ships in international waters. Two attacks were reported, the first one in broad daylight with battle damage to both NVese and USA participants. The second attack, a day or two later, was at night with no visual, only radar & sonar contacts. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution (giving LBJ authority to pursue military action in Viet Nam) was passed within a few days of the attacks. Afterward, there was controversy among the crews of the ships, with some asserting that there had been no second attack==that the radar had picked up "ghost" images while the sonar operators were inexperienced and had identified friendly ship propeller noises as attackers. However, no reputable historian doubts that the first attack was real or that the second attack was believed to be real, by both the Navy and the government, at the time it was reported (and is still believed to have been real by many of the crewmembers).

And so on. Your apparent willingness to believe this nonsense you write about American history casts significant doubt on your credibility when it comes to what you say about current affairs.
59 posted on 06/02/2003 1:55:01 PM PDT by mark502inf
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To: mark502inf
Mark, I am not sure that you ever ask yourself a critical question, for if you did you would have never said some of the things you said.

If we were so "outraged" about Spanish brutality, why were we willing to tolerate brutal Latin American dictators without any problems when we got rid of the Spanish? Answer: they were scum, but at least they were our scum, to paraphrase a famous American political figure. Your explanation for the Spanish war is simply naive. The US was guided by "providential" self-appointed "destiny" -- to first expand from coast to coast and then to rule sovereign over the hemisphere, and now the world. It's called imperialism, plain and simple. Why sugarcoat it? Let's face it: war was good for America. Wars have in large part contributed to America's power. America sought wars at it does today.

I am not an apologist. I just don't have problems admitting that we are doing what every other Empire did -- go to war on its terms. We waited until 1917 to eneter WWI. In the meantime, we traded and made huge profits with both warring sides. We entered the war when it suited us.

One thing that always came in handy -- to our shame -- was our yellow press. In a democracy, the press has a duty to check on the government (whose job is to serve and not to rule!), to keep it honest, etc. That's why we need a free and independent (critical) press. Unfortunately, our press has often served as the unofficial mouthpiece of the government, using its ability to shape public opinion the way the government wanted it. In the case of "the Maine," the press played a cruicial role in raising the public mood for war, just as FoxNews has done in a fine tradition of "presstitute" reporting.

The yellow press also palyed a part in the raising of the war mood in America in WWI -- helped along with the yellow journalism of our British counterparts. British tabloids were pumping out alleged "massacres" of Belgians, rapes in open squares of Belgian women by Germans, and dead baby stories of Germans impaling little toddlers on Belgian fences. The falcities of such stories became obvious after the fact (always too late), but the important thing is: the war came when we wanted it.

Pearl Harbor did not just happen out of a clear blue. Economic sanctions imposed on Japan were destined to force Japan to either retreat from China or to do something esle to break the sanctions. They chose the latter -- duh! In view of that, one would think that the US would be a little more vigilant about being jumped the way it happend in Pearl Harbor. But, the world was at war, and Hitler was a menace and also a Japanese ally. The US was eager to enter the war to stop the Axis from encroaching on our interests. Until then, we were neutral. But when the time came for a war, we got our war. Mice don't just go to raps, they are coaxed to go to traps. Things do not happen out of a clear blue -- they are usually scripted and choregraphed!

No point in going into the Gulf of Tonkin because there is more than lefty mythology involved. It was a convenient excuse to get Congressional approval.

One must really be naive and believe the rallying calls of politicians who (by definition must) lie. It is totally amazing to me that the words of politicians, the people who rank lowest on the trustworthiness and honesty -- somewhere next to lawyers, are suddenly taken for gospel when it comes to sending American people to die in a far off land with a rallying cry such as a "War to End All Wars."

People don't want to know the truth because they can't handle the truth. We can't just say -- hey, this is what we want because we are the Empire and we set the rules. You don't like it? Sorry, maybe you will call the shots in the next round, but right now this is our show. Why beat around the bush? Because to most a "noble lie" is better than the "naked truth."

If you are looking for lack of credibility, you need to look at the "official truth" and not at those who question it. Critical thinking is always in short supply.

60 posted on 06/02/2003 3:01:47 PM PDT by kosta50
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