Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Dajjal (the Deceiver)
The Institute of Islamic Information and Education ^ | unknown | Sheikh Al-Khail bin Yousuf

Posted on 06/21/2003 4:40:48 AM PDT by Dajjal

Dajjal (The Deceiver)

by Sheikh Al-Khail bin Yousuf

QUESTION: WHAT OR WHO IS DAJJAL?

Answer:

DAJJAL is not a person with one eye, “chained” at unknown islands (as claimed by many so-called Aalims, taken from Daeef-Hadith’s). In fact, DAJJAL is an evil concept or mission (Anti-Allah and its commandments) which will be carried out by a powerful group, not by one country but almost every country of the world. A powerful leader whose string will be controlled by the Jews will be the leader of this group.

DAJJAL with “one eye” means “new world order”, a concept initiated by former President of United States George Bush Senior during the war against Iraq. This concept works only in one direction. For example, whatever the United States says “is the law”. No question, no argument. Hence this is considered the “one eye order”.

If you compare the current situation of this world, it’s clearly understood who are DAJJAL and its followers. This is the first time in the history of this world where all so-called civilized but in fact criminal minded people joined hands together to fight against Allah and his commandments. All former enemies joined together (Russia, China, India, Japan, Germany, virtually all so-called “Muslim States” (surprisingly even Iran)) with DAJJAL, living aside their differences. They changed their constitution if it becomes an obstacle to join DAJJAL (Example: Germany, Japan – were not permitted by their constitution to send their troops overseas.)

Support for DAJJAL in not only within the Governments, but you may notice the attitude of the newspapers (even media from so-called Muslim countries), television, radio and all other media are supporting DAJJAL by providing one-sided stories.

DAJJAL was predicted to rain-down fire to its enemy and throw food to its supporters. This is exactly that was happening in Afghanistan. DAJJAL planes are throwing bombs (fire) and food side-by-side, one for the enemy and the other for “friends”.

QUESTION: OK! NOW I IDENTIFY THE DAJJAL, BUT WHAT IS NEXT? VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE WORLD INCLUDING A MAJORITY OF THE SO-CALLED MUSLIMS ARE WITH DAJJAL. WILL THEY WILL KILL ALL THE “HIZB-E-ALLAH” AND THEN WHAT?

Answer:

Your concern is genuine, but remember, if you come across God-fearing people, you will notice they attach no importance to this world (earth). If they succeed to convince people to fight against DAJJAL and finally eliminate DAJJAL, then fine, this world will become a peaceful place to live for a certain period of time. But if they fail, - well! Everyone has to die one day and eventually meet Allah. The moment the last God (Allah) fearing person dies, this world is finished.

Virtually all believers, i.e., Jews, Christians and Muslims are waiting for Eissa (Jesus) to come back and resolve the problem on this earth. Who knows? (Wallah-ho-allam bis Sawab). Rather wasting time, we have to decide whether we will join DAJJAL or HIZB-E-ALLAH (Party of Allah). As everyone of this earth know, the leader of DAJJAL himself announced, “you are with us or against us – no in-between”.

QUESTION: BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD SUPPORTING ANTI-DAJJAL FORCES AS WELL. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM?

Answer:

Very good question. Remember, according to any revealed book, this world has divided into two groups. First, HIZB-E-ALLAH (Party of God) and secondly, Hizb-e-Shiatan (Party of Satan).

Allah creates Nations just for our identification. Please DO NOT blame American, Afghanis, Jews, Muslims, Christians or any nation for some bad deeds. Every nation has people belonging to one of the two groups I identified above (HIZB-E-ALLAH / Hizb-e-Shiatan). Yes I agree, in some cases the ratio of support may vary from Nation to Nation.

Those who identified the DAJJAL and support the anti-Dajjal forces (HIZB-E-ALLAH) by any means, will be definitely rewarded; a permanent stay in the Paradise by Almighty Allah Sobhan Wa Talla. Of course their life may become Hell by DAJJAL in this world for short period of time.

But those who support DAJJAL (Hizb-e-Shiatan) by any means (even for short political or finance gain), will definitely end up in Hell fire. This is the promise of Almighty Allah Sobhan Wa Talla.

Now it’s up to all human being to decide his or her destiny.

QUESTION: I AM A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, I HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES, I HAVE TAKEN OATH TO BE SINCERE TO OUR COUNTRY, WHAT DO I DO?

Answer:

Well the answer is simple, your obligation to Allah Sobhan Wa Talla is much higher then your Country. If you continue to obey orders that go against HIZB-E-ALLAH, you are in the party of DAJJAL. There are no excuses.

According to all revealed books, (Taurat, Injeel, Zaboor, Quran) we are at the final moment where we have to decide one way or other. Even DAJJAL will not accept you if you try to take the neutral approach. Hence, all those who worked for any institution where they are pressurized to work for DAJJAL must understand the danger and do something to delight Allah (SWT) rather then to help DAJJAL. They can do this even more effectively by keeping their current position. But if they have no choice, then they have to choose the “Party of Allah”, saving themselves from Hell Fire.



TOPICS: War on Terror
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; dajjal; imamalmahdi; imammahdi; islam; mahdi; osamabinladen; qiyama; qiyamah; terrorism; twelfthimam
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last
If you compare the current situation of this world, it’s clearly understood who are DAJJAL and its followers. This is the first time in the history of this world where all so-called civilized but in fact criminal minded people joined hands together to fight against Allah and his commandments.

The widespread opinion in the Muslim world is that the Dajjal is not an evil individual, but rather a political-economic-cultural power spreading its influence over all the world -- in other words, the United States and Western culture.

The Hadith predict that at the End Times, the Dajjal will appear and threaten to take over the entire globe. Then the Mahdi will appear, raise an army that includes 'Isha (the Muslimis idea of the second coming of Christ), and the Mahdi will defeat and kill the Dajjal. The Mahdi will then rule over the world according to Islamic law. All non-believers will have been killed or converted.

This is the millennial belief system that undergirds the Islamic fundamentalist terror movement. The terrorists are early recruits for the "Mahdi's army."

Their goal is that every infidel (i.e., follower of Dajjal) be eliminated.

They believe that the world will end on or around the Muslim year 1500 AH, which is 2076 AD.

They believe that the Hadith guarantees them victory over the United States, despite our military power.

It is important to understand their mindset.

As the US looks for moderate Muslim allies (for example, in Iraq), we should ask them "Do you now, or have you ever believed, that the United States is the Dajjal?"

Every faithful Muslim believes what the Hadith says about the Signs of Qiyama (End Times), the Dajjal, and the Mahdi. But not every Muslim believes that the End Times are upon us. Or that the United States is the Dajjal or a Dajjalic System. Or that it is imperative to oppose the United States through terrorist jihad.

And many terrorists are motivated by their politics rather than the Hadith.

But the Muslim End Time prophecies provide a powerful basis for the recruitment of terrorists, especially amongst the young in the madrasas.

1 posted on 06/21/2003 4:40:48 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All
The Signs of Qiyamah
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali and Mufti Afzal Hoosen Elias

(excerpt)

Hadhrat Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that Rasulallah (s.a.w) said, "Qiyamah will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
* When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When people dispute over petty issues.
* When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummah, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannah.
* When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (s.a.w) about the SIGNS OF QIYAMAH.

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
* People will indulge in homosexuality.
* There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
* There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
* Various wines will be consumed excessively.

2 posted on 06/21/2003 4:45:54 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Siobhan; Maeve; narses; Aquinasfan; Salvation; drstevej; RnMomof7; ganesha; monkeyshine; CCWoody; ..
jihad ping
3 posted on 06/21/2003 4:52:57 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Dajjal the biggest Evil
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali

4 posted on 06/21/2003 5:07:30 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Is is too much to ask to simply sell us your oil at a fair price and be done with it? To spare us all the retarded, medieval hatred and Allah hokum?
5 posted on 06/21/2003 5:23:56 AM PDT by dennisw (G-d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Every faithful Muslim believes...But not every Muslim believes...

Degrees of self-inflicted, intellectual enslavement.

6 posted on 06/21/2003 5:41:03 AM PDT by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
OK! NOW I IDENTIFY THE DAJJAL, BUT WHAT IS NEXT? VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE WORLD INCLUDING A MAJORITY OF THE SO-CALLED MUSLIMS ARE WITH DAJJAL. WILL THEY WILL KILL ALL THE “HIZB-E-ALLAH” AND THEN WHAT?

You tease!

7 posted on 06/21/2003 5:55:41 AM PDT by Fifth Business
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
When I saw the title of this article, posted by you, I got really really nervous.
8 posted on 06/21/2003 11:11:23 AM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Al Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 803, Ayesha reported that the Prophet used to say (in prayer), "O Allah! I seek refuge from Thee from the chastisement of the Fire... the trials of the grave... and the evils of the trials of the one-eyed Dajjal..." Attested by agreement.

Who is Dajjal? He is a devil who possessed Muhammed.

9 posted on 06/21/2003 11:22:37 AM PDT by DainBramage
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
The Dajjal could just as easily be Arafat, Bin Laden and others who tout terrorism. Read it again, it could really apply to the terrorists. When the good are condemned could as easily apply to the US using it's power to restrain evil and to free people. The political and cultural power spreading it's evil influence could very well be the people who have hijacked Islam and are turning it into a power for evil.
10 posted on 06/21/2003 11:29:50 AM PDT by McGavin999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DainBramage
"He is a devil who possessed Muhammed."

So, now I see where that protestant fellow got the TRUE description of old MO, a demon-possessed pedophile. LOL, good to know.

Mohammedism, the greatest fraud ever perpetrated. Good one.

11 posted on 06/21/2003 11:34:40 AM PDT by jocon307 (Before Sept. 11th I was one of the most tolerent people you could find.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Strikingly similar world view to that of fundamentalists of other religions. You only have to change a few names and words.
12 posted on 06/21/2003 12:28:51 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
LI-BER-ALS (The Deceiver)
QUESTION: WHAT OR WHO IS LI-BER-ALS?

Answer:

LI-BER-ALS is not a person with one eye, "chained" at unknown islands (as claimed by many so-called Pundits, taken from Daeef-Hadith?s). In fact, LI-BER-ALS is an evil concept or mission (Anti-American and it's Constitution) which will be carried out by a powerful group, not by one country but almost every country of the world. A powerful leader whose string will be controlled by the foreign liberals and Hollywood actors will be the leader of this group.

LI-BER-ALS with "one eye" means "new world menace", a concept initiated by former President of United States Bill Clinton during interludes at the White House with an Intern. This concept works only in one direction. For example, whatever the DNC and Hollywood says "is the law". No question, no argument. Hence this is considered the "one eye order".

If you compare the current situation of this world, it?s clearly understood who are LI-BER-ALS and its followers. This is the first time in the history of this world where all so-called civilized but in fact criminal minded people joined hands together to fight against Freedom and it's Constitution. All former enemies joined together (France, Germany, Belgium, Russia, China, virtually all so-called "Muslim States" (surprisingly even Syria)) with LI-BER-ALS, living aside their differences. They changed their constitution if it becomes an obstacle to join LI-BER-ALS (Example: Belgium wants to indict General Franks.)

Support for LI-BER-ALS in not only within the Governments, but you may notice the attitude of the newspapers (even media from so-called Muslim countries), television, radio and all other media are supporting LI-BER-ALS by providing one-sided stories.

LI-BER-ALS was predicted to rain-down fire to its enemy and throw food to its supporters. This is exactly that was happening in Hollywood. LI-BER-ALS planes are throwing bombs (pundit actors) and food (protests) side-by-side, one for the enemy and the other for "friends".

QUESTION: OK! NOW I IDENTIFY THE LI-BER-ALS, BUT WHAT IS NEXT? VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE WORLD INCLUDING A MAJORITY OF THE SO-CALLED MUSLIMS ARE WITH LI-BER-ALS. WILL THEY WILL KILL ALL THE "RE-PUB-LI-CANS" AND THEN WHAT?

Answer:

Your concern is genuine, but remember, if you come across God-fearing people, you will notice they attach great importance to this World (and freedom). If they succeed to convince people to fight against LI-BER-ALS and finally eliminate LI-BER-ALS, then fine, this world will become a peaceful place to live for a certain period of time. But if they fail, - well! Everyone has to loose an election one day and eventually meet the Supreme Court. The moment the last Republican person dies, this world is finished.

Virtually all believers, i.e., Jews, Christians and Muslims are waiting for Eissa (Jesus) to come back and resolve the problem on this earth. Who knows? Rather wasting time, we have to decide whether we will join LI-BER-ALS or RE-PUB-LI-CANS. As everyone of this earth knows, the leader of LI-BER-ALS himself announced, "Saddam has no WMD and Bin Laden is a nice guy".

QUESTION: BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD SUPPORTING ANTI-LI-BER-ALS FORCES AS WELL. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THEM?

Answer:

Very good question. Remember, according to any revealed book, this world has divided into two groups. First, RE-PUB-LI-CANS (Party of Reason) and secondly, DE-MO-CRATS (Party of Satan).

States are created just for our identification. Please DO NOT blame American, Afghanis, Jews, Muslims, Christians or any State for some bad deeds. Every State has people belonging to one of the two groups I identified above (RE-PUB-LI-CANS / DE-MO-CRATS). Yes I agree, in some cases the ratio of support may vary from State to State.

Those who identified the LI-BER-ALS and support the anti-LI-BER-ALS forces (RE-PUB-LI-CANS) by any means, will be definitely rewarded; a permanent stay in the Paradise of the House and Senate. Of course their life may become Hell by LI-BER-ALS in this world for short period of time.

But those who support LI-BER-ALS (DE-MO-CRATS) by any means (even for short political or finance gain), will definitely end up in Hell fire. This is the promise of Judicial System.

Now it?s up to all human being to decide his or her destiny.

QUESTION: I AM A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL, I HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES, I HAVE TAKEN OATH TO BE SINCERE TO OUR COUNTRY, WHAT DO I DO?

Answer:

Well the answer is simple, your obligation is to protect the Country. If you continue to obey orders that go against RE-PUB-LI-CANS, you are in the party of LI-BER-ALS. There are no excuses.

According to all revealed websites, (www.freerepublic.com) we are at the final moment where we have to decide one way or other. Even LI-BER-ALS will not accept you if you try to take the neutral approach. Hence, all those who worked for any institution where they are pressurized to work for LI-BER-ALS must understand the danger and do something to delight Jim Robbinson rather then to help LI-BER-ALS. They can do this even more effectively by keeping their current position. But if they have no choice, then they have to choose the "Republican Party", saving themselves from Hell Fire.
13 posted on 06/21/2003 1:46:07 PM PDT by gaucho (People used to come to the US for prosperity and now we just export it to them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gaucho
QUESTION: WHAT OR WHO IS LI-BER-ALS?

That’s funny, but it misses the point of this thread.

This thread is a partial explanation of why 9/11 happened. This is information which has still not been reported to the American people by any of the mainstream press, and only rarely by alternative media. This is information which Bush and Rumsfeld have continued to withhold from us.

One of the reasons 3,000 Americans died on 9/11, one of the reasons that we’ve gone to wars in which American servicemen have sacrificed their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, is that there are a number of Muslims (not all, but LOTS) who a) believe that it’s the end of the world, b) believe that the United States and Western Culture are the last-days evil predicted in their scripture, c) believe that their scripture guarantees them a decisive victory over this evil, which victory will result in an exclusively Muslim world, and d) since it’s the end of the world, they see no reason to do anything other than become suicide bombers and fanatic terrorists, intent on killing as many “infidels” as possible.

I believe that, as a democratic society, the people and our elected representatives can formulate public policy best when given as accurate information as possible. I disagree with the government and media’s policy of spiking and not reporting the millennialism which is a significant -- perhaps even the central -- factor in Islamic terrorism.

If you do a Google search on the word “Dajjal,” you will find thousands of references on the internet. Many of them will be to the classical description of the Dajjal as a one-eyed giant who will try to take over the world in the last days, according to the Hadith. What is useful about the article posted here is that bin Yousuf is preaching -- in English -- the version that the classical description be interpreted allegorically as referring to the United States and Western culture. He’s telling his audience that it’s not some one-eyed giant in the future that must be destroyed, but present-day Americans and Westerners who must be eliminated in order to usher in Judgment Day.

Maybe that doesn’t make you uneasy, but it does me. It is because of this Islamic millennialism that we have the National Guard patrolling our city streets, the Post Office checking for white powder in envelopes, journalists being beheaded on television, and Muslim snipers shooting people in Walmart parking lots.

14 posted on 06/23/2003 9:59:40 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
No wonder the Great Seal of the US makes them nervous. Interesting post.
15 posted on 06/23/2003 10:11:05 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Here's an example of this "dajjal" thinking in action
16 posted on 06/23/2003 10:17:49 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Thinkin' Gal; Jeremiah Jr
-
17 posted on 06/23/2003 10:22:32 PM PDT by Sir Gawain (Mongo only pawn in game of life)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DainBramage
and the evils of the trials of the one-eyed Dajjal

Sounds like something that influenced Clinton...

18 posted on 06/23/2003 10:24:46 PM PDT by Sir Gawain (Mongo only pawn in game of life)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
That’s funny, but it misses the point of this thread.

Sorry, I couldn't contain myself when I wrote that.

You are absolutely right. I have developed a keen interest in islamofacism, particularly since I was almost killed on 9/11. I was a few hundred feet from the North Tower when it came down, literally on top of me, and spent the next few weeks on The Pile doing S&R.

I believe that one of the basics tenets of Islamism to take over and convert everyone, not really that different from Christianity and it's missionaries, with the exception that a Christian Missionary isn't going to kill you if you wont convert.

I find it troubling that Islam seems to spread like a weed in the wild, reproducing at an alarming rate. It's swallowing entire countries whole, not by converting the existing population but by overtaking it with it's own "imported" population, like is happening in France and Chechnia.

I believe that when Islam was created some 1600 years ago the world must have been in chaos, perhaps because of some event that altered civilization and a draconian code of "law" (sharia) needed to be put in place to help ensure some semblance of law. But the world has changed significantly in the intervening years with many modern ideas of law surpasing those prescribed in the Koran. Fundamentalism see's only the Koran's way of law as being valid, hence all the infidels must either convert or be eliminated. Because of these fundamental beliefs, there are those who try to manipulate their followers into ways in which to elminate the infidels and spread the "fundamentalism". IMHO, bin Yousuf's references to the US and Western culture as being Dajjal is a way to acheive these goals and ideology that nonbelievers must be eliminated.
19 posted on 06/23/2003 10:41:05 PM PDT by gaucho (People used to come to the US for prosperity and now we just export it to them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: gaucho
I have developed a keen interest in islamofacism, particularly since I was almost killed on 9/11. I was a few hundred feet from the North Tower when it came down, literally on top of me, and spent the next few weeks on The Pile doing S&R.

Wow! My hat is off you you!

I believe that when Islam was created some 1600 years ago the world must have been in chaos, perhaps because of some event that altered civilization and a draconian code of "law" (sharia) needed to be put in place to help ensure some semblance of law.

Prof. David Cook of Rice University's theory is that Islam spread so quickly across the Mediterranean because Mohammed was preaching the-end-of-the-world-is-nigh sermons back then and the new converts felt that panicked sense of urgency.
Islam's Apocalypse
by David Cook

IMHO, bin Yousuf's references to the US and Western culture as being Dajjal is a way to acheive these goals and ideology that nonbelievers must be eliminated.

Yes, it's a classic bifurcation of the world into "us vs. them" where "they" are irredemably evil, and must be wiped out by any means necessary.

20 posted on 06/24/2003 3:04:21 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: piasa
Here's an example of this "dajjal" thinking in action

Thanks! Good find!

...In conclusion of this part, Bush has proven himself to be a deceiver and a liar. In fact, I consider him to be the head of the Dajjal (the deceiver) system of inhuman, totalitarian and fascist branch of Secularism.
....
The War on Iraq is a scare tactic to the Muslims. This war is about sending the message to the Muslim world not to stand in the way of the American will because you could be destroyed easily if you are not with America. The Dajjal (the promised deceiver) would offer to mankind that either you are with me or against me giving no ground for neutrality. The Messenger of Allah told us that those who submit to the Dajjal will be the losers eternally and those who resist his domination will find themselves in paradise in the life hereafter. It has been prophesied by the Messenger of Allah that the Dajjal will have control over life and death, the way Bush has killed at least 15,000 Afghani civilians, including men, women, young and old, while providing billions of dollars in aid and prosperity for the Israelis. This is indeed the time of test for the Muslim world; let us see who submits to Dajjal and who resists him.

21 posted on 06/24/2003 3:08:53 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
Strikingly similar world view to that of fundamentalists of other religions. You only have to change a few names and words.

Note how strikingly similar these two statements are - you just have to change a few names and words:

ZELDA LOVES FRESH STRAWBERRIES.

ALBERT AND HANS LOVE BEATING UP OLD LADIES.

22 posted on 06/24/2003 7:16:24 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Note how strikingly similar these two statements are - you just have to change a few names and words:

ZELDA LOVES FRESH STRAWBERRIES. ALBERT AND HANS LOVE BEATING UP OLD LADIES

That of course is taking my words literally to the point of disregarding the underlying meaning. Quite like the approach to religion displayed by many (not all) fundamentalists, Islamic, Christian, or whatever.

23 posted on 06/24/2003 5:44:37 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
ZELDA LOVES FRESH STRAWBERRIES.

ALBERT AND HANS LOVE BEATING UP OLD LADIES.

Just to clarify, I don't think most people would consider these statements similar.Here is a better illustration of what I meant:

Zelda loves fresh strawberries.

Fatima loves fresh dates.

I'm not equating Christianity with Islam, but I couldn't help noticing the similarities in what was posted and much of the "end times" theories I have seen here.

24 posted on 06/24/2003 6:02:14 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
I'm not equating Christianity with Islam,

Of course not! But you have brilliantly pointed out the remarkable similarity between

WE MUST FORGIVE AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER
and
WE MUST FLY PLANES INTO BUILDINGS
"you just have to change a few names and words" and they are "strikingly similar".
25 posted on 06/25/2003 7:57:33 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
That of course is taking my words literally to the point of disregarding the underlying meaning. Quite like the approach to religion displayed by many (not all) fundamentalists, Islamic,

Of course! You've noticed the remarkable fact that I am "strikingly similar" to a Muslim, presumably as long as we "change a few names and words", in this case changing

ETHAN CLIVE OSGOODE
to
SHEIKH ABDUL EL-WAZI
and voila!, strinkingly similar.
26 posted on 06/25/2003 8:03:18 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Bravo!
27 posted on 06/25/2003 3:23:10 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: All
Related threads:

Alert Umma there is a 90% chance that we will see the Jewish Dajjal in our lifetime

Understanding Islamic End-Times Beliefs
(Rod Dreher's article about Prof. David Cook at National Review Online)

28 posted on 06/25/2003 3:35:06 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999; Canticle_of_Deborah; gaucho; Ethan Clive Osgoode; piasa; Fifth Business; PGalt; ...
The Dajjal could just as easily be Arafat, Bin Laden and others who tout terrorism.

Prof. David Cook reports that since the 1980s, throughout the Middle East, there have been tons of books and pamphlets "explaining" that the United States (or Britain or NATO or Israel or Western Culture in general) is the Dajjal.

Prior to that time, mullahs would preach the “classical” description of the Dajjal prophesied in the Hadith: A giant with one usable eye and one putrid eye who almost takes over the globe until the Mahdi appears to kill him. The Dajjal can leap through the sky, touching the clouds, wade across oceans, and ride a powerful mule swiftly across land. He brings back the dead to life (or at least seems to). There’s lots of other stuff.

The appearance of the Dajjal is one of the Signs of Qiyama -- signs that Judgment Day is nigh. A few other signs are that “a brother in the west can speak to a brother in the east,” that dancing and singing women would be everywhere, that homosexuality would be commonplace, that women would abort their children.

In the 1980s, the mullahs began to interpret these prophecies allegorically as applying to the United States and Western Culture. They said that they described the Western inventions of the airplanes, railroads, highways, modern ships, telephones, television, radios, etc. “Restoring the dead to life” meant the discovery of penicillin and all the innovations of modern Western medicine. And, of course, the Hadith was predicting the women’s lib, gay lib, and pro-aborticide movements.

The Dajjal being one-eyed meant that Americans are materialistic and lack spiritual vision, as well as the influence of Freemasonry and that pyramid on the dollar bill. “Conquering the world” meant US dominance in political, economic, and cultural influence.

Sheikh Al-Khail bin Yousuf is not a lone wolf. He is preaching what has become the common, popular, interpretation of the Dajjal prophecies throughout the Muslim world.

My primary point is that here we are, some 21 MONTHS after 9/11, and this information still has not made it into the general press and broadcast media news. It is vital to know accurately what the enemy thinks, and an IMPORTANT, CENTRAL chunk of that information is still being withheld, either through deliberate political suppression or though journalistic laziness.

My secondary point is that this information is crucial as the US tries to rebuild Afghanistan and Iraq, and look for “moderate” Muslims in the Middle East. As the US hands out money to these people, we need to ask them “Do you now, or have you ever believed, that the United States is the Dajjal?”

My third point is that US teaching efforts must take this issue head-on and refute it, one way or another: telling them “NO, we are NOT your ‘Dajjal.’ NO, it is not the end of the world. Now give up this suicide bomber stuff and go to school and make something useful of yourselves.” We need to remove this as the popular interpretation, and shrink the pool of Muslims who believe this, from whom terrorists are recruited.

That will not solve everything. There can still be Muslim terrorists even without this Dajjal stuff. But putting a lid on it will be a major step, and is a necessary step.

29 posted on 06/25/2003 5:00:41 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
I continue to contend that a lot of this stuff can be traced back to Wahhabism, from which Khomeini borrowed a lot as far as popular eschatology goes. The first Hizb-e-Shaitan of the Wahhabis, even according to pro-Saudi sources, was the "apostate" rulers of the Ottoman Empire.
30 posted on 06/25/2003 5:22:34 PM PDT by Angelus Errare
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Interesting point. One of the best ways to get around it is to point out the good that the US does. That would not fit with their picture of evil. They have to be asked if saving lives is evil. Is feeding the poor and starving evil? If freeing people who are living under a despot evil?

You're right, these things must be confronted. Someone who talks you into committing the sin of suicide by telling you it is good, IS evil. Someone who kills innocents intentionally IS evil. Someone who takes money given to the poor to feed them and uses that money to purchase weapons to kill IS evil. Charity is a gift to God, those who steal that money, rather than using it for the purpose intended, IS evil.

31 posted on 06/25/2003 5:23:39 PM PDT by McGavin999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
I see your point, but I did not mean that one can randomly change words to produce different meanings.

I noticed a similarity in the way some fundamentalists of different faiths view the world today. Namely, that ultimate evil is misleading many, but the end is near, and when it comes the true believers will be saved and the believers in the false god will be destroyed.

Different terms are used by diffferent groups (Dajjal and anti-Christ, God and Allah) to express a view of life that has some big things in common.

32 posted on 06/25/2003 5:26:46 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: All
Sounds to me like Mohammad ripped off the Book of Revelations in his descriptions of the End Times.
33 posted on 06/25/2003 5:31:35 PM PDT by Jacob Kell (This tagline will self-destruct in five seconds...four...three...two...one...Kaboom!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
Every religious group has some end-of-the-world prophecies, but they don't all go flying passenger planes into American skyscrapers.
34 posted on 06/25/2003 5:39:15 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Jacob Kell
The Qur'an rips off large chunks of the Old and New Testaments.
35 posted on 06/25/2003 5:40:28 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: McGavin999
One of the best ways to get around it is to point out the good that the US does. That would not fit with their picture of evil.

There is a Catch 22: The Hadith prophesies that the Dajjal will conquer some people with military might, and others by benevolent seduction. Those who follow the Dajjal prosper: abundant crops, good health, long life, material comfort, etc.

Because the US is big and powerful, just about anything we do can be labeled “Dajjalic” by the fanatics.

But for the ordinary guy in the street, this strategy should work. Economic growth, education programs, medical and nutritional assistance should win them over, and shrink the pool from which the fanatics can recruit.

But it is important that the US be consciously AWARE of this "Dajjal" propaganda while we are doing our good works, or else it can all come to nought.

36 posted on 06/25/2003 5:51:50 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Angelus Errare
I continue to contend that a lot of this stuff can be traced back to Wahhabism, from which Khomeini borrowed a lot as far as popular eschatology goes. The first Hizb-e-Shaitan of the Wahhabis, even according to pro-Saudi sources, was the "apostate" rulers of the Ottoman Empire.

I agree. These are not mutually exclusive threads in Muslim eschatology.

37 posted on 06/25/2003 5:55:44 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Every religious group has some end-of-the-world prophecies, but they don't all go flying passenger planes into American skyscrapers.

Agreed, but every group has some members who use their personal interpretations of their scriptures to justify some pretty horrid acts. I'm not trying to make religions out to be equivalent. I was just struck by the fact that fanatics of all stripes can sound amazingly like each other.

In any case, thanks for your comments.

38 posted on 06/25/2003 6:01:03 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
Point taken, but it's the difference between "everyday" crimes (from misdemeanors to murder) and an global war.
39 posted on 06/25/2003 6:12:51 PM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
fanatics of all stripes can sound amazingly like each other.

Non-fanatics of all stripes can also sound amazingly like each other.

40 posted on 06/25/2003 7:35:45 PM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
There is a Catch 22: The Hadith prophesies that the Dajjal will conquer some people with military might, and others by benevolent seduction. Those who follow the Dajjal prosper: abundant crops, good health, long life, material comfort, etc.

Again with the parallel with Bin Laden etc. They claim to help the people. They threaten those who don't go along with them. They not only threaten them, they kill them. Those who go along with them, they reward.

41 posted on 06/25/2003 8:31:50 PM PDT by McGavin999
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
Non-fanatics of all stripes can also sound amazingly like each other

Yes, they can, and we all have our own definitions of a fanatic. By my standards this Sheikh Al-Khail bin Yousuf fellow more than qualifies.

42 posted on 06/25/2003 8:59:16 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal
Point taken, but it's the difference between "everyday" crimes (from misdemeanors to murder) and an global war.

I agree, and adherents of Islam have certainly distinguished themselves in this way.

43 posted on 06/25/2003 9:05:18 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Dajjal; SupplySider
Every religious group has some end-of-the-world prophecies, but they don't all go flying passenger planes into American skyscrapers.

And Christians who are deeply concerned about end times are interested in converting people by faith, not by force. There are several competing doctrines, but none of the commonly-followed ones in post-Enlightenment times call for killing a race of people, nor do they call for threatening individuals in order to convert them.

The roots of Christian tolerance are found in the story of Christ's sacrifice. His death changed the tenor of God's enforcement of his requirements, a common belief held among all Christian denominations.

There is a difference between waging a world war to defend a culture (the west) after it's been attacked, and genocide for its ideological sake (extreme Islam).

44 posted on 06/27/2003 3:46:18 AM PDT by risk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: risk
My apologies to the devout for representing their convictions. I encourage them to clarify my statements on the basis of faith, which I respect and honor.
45 posted on 06/27/2003 3:49:09 AM PDT by risk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: risk
And Christians who are deeply concerned about end times are interested in converting people by faith, not by force.

I appreciate this point. And Islam's track record throughout history and around the world speaks for itself.Still, on reading this piece, I think it is striking that there are some big similarities in point of view among the more literal-minded of both faiths.

A sincere question, not meant to criticize or provoke: if and when some Christian sects percieve that the final battle between good and evil is beginning, will they feel bound to fight? And might some groups feel we are close to that now?

46 posted on 06/27/2003 12:28:42 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider
I disagree that there is a similarity, but yes many Christians feel they will have to fight for their countries and their families. However, it is core to Christian beliefs that God will handle the spiritual war. There is no doctrine of destruction that needs to be perpetuated by Christians in order to bring on the end of the world.

I urge you to look around. You are under attack by people who for whatever reason want to kill you. Stop intellectualizing and come to grips with your human obligation to fight for who you are, what you are, and what your dreams are.

You have been educated to consider all cultures and faiths by a tolerant American society. That society hasn't changed in any way. We are now under attack for that very commitment to tolerance. If we do not defend our power of benevolence, dark forces will take its place.

I'm asking you to stop equivocating. That time is long over.

47 posted on 06/27/2003 12:37:31 PM PDT by risk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: risk
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

With all due respect, if you see no similarities between what was expressed by Muslims in that post and the beliefs expressed by some fundamentalist Christians about the coming apocalypse, I think you are being disingenuous or closing your mind.

I am totally opposed to Muslim terror and all for defending against evil invaders. I feel no fear about Christians, but it does make me pause when I see folks who are convinced that the world will end soon, coincidentally, on their watch. In my view, Jim Jones and David Koresh are not much different from Al Queda, and it is important that we look at ourselves and our ideas.God gave us our intellect.

48 posted on 06/27/2003 3:36:27 PM PDT by SupplySider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: SupplySider; Dajjal
In my view, Jim Jones and David Koresh are not much different from Al Queda, and it is important that we look at ourselves and our ideas.

CROSS 9/11 TANGLE OF TERROR I still disagree with you, but it's worth explaining why. There has been a great tendency toward cultural relativism in the west over the past 60 years. But is it reasonable? Peoples have mixed and talked, and compared notes about western influences. They question our enthusiasm for democracy. They question our hypocritical demands for human rights. Ideologies such as Maoism have dared to question the assumption that antibiotics and high speed Internet are the future of the whole human race. Other nations have asserted their right to sovereignty and statehood despite conflicting interests with America and its allies. I know this well. But I don't want to disconnect, and I see you're happy to drink at the data trough too. We want progress, and more of it. And we're not going to give it up lightly. But where did endless progress originate? Our strength comes from a blend of common values and a shifting of emphasis toward making our own success from whatever we find around ourselves. The Reformation has been good to the west. And it has brought much tolerance and kindness, all said and done. And without global opposition, American progress would continue. I think it will in any case!

Regarding your equating of most spiritual fervor with violent zeal, I think you may be letting your fear of religion in general cloud your view of western civilization. This is a common theme in academia and the arts, and I see it merely as an indicator, a gauge of our advancement. We have come this far, and now we're looking back to see how. Some guilt is creeping in. A will toward reconciliation has taken our thoughts. But we can't begin to question ourselves so much that we are afraid to survive. A little self doubt is healthy. Too much will cut off our ability to sustain ourselves; we could lose the thread of forward continuity. We could be crushed by the thronging billions beyond our borders if we fail to remember who we are and why we should have a chance to thrive. I realize that much evil has been done in the name of religion in the west. But all around us you can find people seeking to define for themselves what their scriptures mean, what their believes imply for their personal lives, and how they should act on those teachings. The urge toward spirituality is something that can't be eliminated with physics equations and social theories. We can be proud of the religious tolerance we have built here in this country. It goes all the way back to the Gunpowder Plot in England, where some wanted to continue practicing Catholicism instead of converting to the Anglican church for the King's moral convenience. It continued with the Pilgrims coming to America to be allowed to interpret the Bible their own way. And it developed further when Roger Williams departed from their midst to form the state of Rhode Island in order to avoid their own form of dogmatic oppression. We have learned to keep a balance between our own ideas and those of others. You may find extremism from time to time, but always look for checks on its power. Devout Christians keep a close eye on their fellow practicioners, and they are quick to point out when conviction has gone too far.

[I]f you see no similarities between what was expressed by Muslims in that post and the beliefs expressed by some fundamentalist Christians about the coming apocalypse, I think you are being disingenuous or closing your mind.

I understand your thinking well. Most intellectuals are interested in human progress and decreased dependence on beliefs in the imagined; they expect our secular and practical convictions to rely more and more on observable facts. However, civilizations ebb and flow, enlightenment of a group of people waxes and wanes. What is next for us? Is religion at the heart of our dilemma, or is it merely a reaction to it? Does talk of resuming the Crusades come out of blind passion for religion, or does it come out of fear for our future in the face of a billion people who think that they could be on a collision course with us based only on religious teachings? So what if a few Americans revert to their faith and lay hands on the Bible in hopes that they can gain some comfort. That would be a reaction, not an action in this conflict. Who started this conflict? Remember that we were bin Laden's benefactor in the Afgan war with the Soviets. He thinks he defeated them himself, but it was we who made that possible. The religious Crusade at hand is a Muslim one, and nothing else. Spanish Inquisition

But even you should recognize that Christianity has undergone a massive reformation over the past half millennium. I'm not very interested in Jim Jones because his Koolade trick was a brief titter of noise in the overall chorus of American religiosity. Jones and his mass deception does make me pause and consider how a certain element among us could be led to the slaughter without a second thought, but that's only tangentially related to our discussion. Furthermore, I take umbrage with your choice of lumping David Koresh in with Jones. Since I disagreed with Koresh, I see the shaky foundation of your point. But Waco is hardly an incident to bring up lightly in a predominately right-wing christian forum. It betrays a certain willingness on your part to invoke the bizarre and the exceptional in your efforts to prove a fundamental aspect of human spirituality. There are many worse incidents, some that happen daily around this nation, that you could have invoked. So I wouldn't be surprised if you dismiss anyone who might have strong beliefs in something you don't understand as "mystical" and "dangerous."

A phobia for superstition is fair enough for an intellectual, but a comparison of Christianity's potential for extremism and Islam's would have had no place at Ground Zero on 9/11 in the bone-laden rubble. And that brings me to my main point: you can question how and why we are what we are, but if you are one of us, there's nothing you can do to shake off your ties to America. And if it pains you to see us going to war without your blessing, if you fear the consequences, and if you find that you just can't identify with the fervent prayers being murmured around you, I have one request: try to be patient. Continue pointing out the error of our ways, and continue asking us to consider another choice, but don't give up on your fellow Americans. Christians are not the enemy. They did not attack you. And if some Americans pray, it's because they are afraid, and it's the best comfort they know.

49 posted on 06/28/2003 7:11:07 AM PDT by risk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: risk; SupplySider
Jim Jones turned his murderous eye upon his own followers.

And David Koresh and his band may have been collecting weapons, but from their speeches and writings they displayed a defensive mentality. Koresh thought that the "New World Order" would attack him, and managed to get that prophecy self-fulfilled.

Neither of these extremists holds a candle to the jihad-inciting mullahs preaching hate throughout the mosques and madrasas of the globe.

50 posted on 06/28/2003 9:39:13 AM PDT by Dajjal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-54 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson